where's the outrage?

[chinadave2001]

I am somewhat startled by the lack of outrage at what has happened to Mark, myself, and many others. We were suckered by women who wanted only one thing - an American green card. They promised anything and everything, said all the right things, slept with us, and then, once the goal was in sight and the border successfully navigated, quickly turned and looked for a better deal. Hell, my ex was handing out her email address on the goddamned airplane ride over here!

All I am saying is that when this stuff happens, there is a very muted response. If an American guy did this to a Chinese girl, you guys would be all over him. Imagine the response, if an American guy married the Chinese girl, and then, after a year or two, said " Get out and go home. I want a different, better, younger, prettier, richer ,etc., chinese girl. You did not fulfill my expectations." You guys would be all over him condemning him and offering help.

It seems to me that there is a double standard here.

Just my thoughts.

CD

[Randy W]

I am somewhat startled by the lack of outrage at what has happened to Mark, myself, and many others. We were suckered by women who wanted only one thing - an American green card. They promised anything and everything, said all the right things, slept with us, and then, once the goal was in sight and the border successfully navigated, quickly turned and looked for a better deal. Hell, my ex was handing out her email address on the goddamned airplane ride over here!

All I am saying is that when this stuff happens, there is a very muted response. If an American guy did this to a Chinese girl, you guys would be all over him. Imagine the response, if an American guy married the Chinese girl, and then, after a year or two, said " Get out and go home. I want a different, better, younger, prettier, richer ,etc., chinese girl. You did not fulfill my expectations." You guys would be all over him condemning him and offering help.

It seems to me that there is a double standard here.

Just my thoughts.

CD

152982[/snapback]

 

 

I try to read between the lines on these things. I usually find that the Chinese woman's behavior is consistent with that of someone who is more than a little bit surprised at what she found when she got here.

 

At the same time, I realize that I wasn't there, and don't know, and wouldn't want to come to any conclusions without hearing from her.

 

I think we all have a big responsibility to our Chinese SO's when they get here. Saying 'I didn't know' doesn't carry any weight with me.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Randy W (see edit history)

[ameriken]

I am somewhat startled by the lack of outrage at what has happened to Mark, myself, and many others. We were suckered by women who wanted only one thing - an American green card. They promised anything and everything, said all the right things, slept with us, and then, once the goal was in sight and the border successfully navigated, quickly turned and looked for a better deal. Hell, my ex was handing out her email address on the goddamned airplane ride over here!

All I am saying is that when this stuff happens, there is a very muted response. If an American guy did this to a Chinese girl, you guys would be all over him. Imagine the response, if an American guy married the Chinese girl, and then, after a year or two, said " Get out and go home. I want a different, better, younger, prettier, richer ,etc., chinese girl. You did not fulfill my expectations." You guys would be all over him condemning him and offering help.

It seems to me that there is a double standard here.

Just my thoughts.

CD

152982[/snapback]

Prevention is always the best cure........for the rest of the men who are trying to find chinese wives.......what would you say are the warning signs, if any? How does one see through it all?

 

Good luck to you in the future !

[Yuanyang]

Dave,

No double standard, but certainly a double tragedy.

I too would be most interested in any 'warning signs'.

[Jeikun]

Well, yes in that case I would be outraged. I guess one of the reasons everyone isn't furious and condemning this woman for being a visa digger is that it's not definate that this is what she is. Many marriages fail, and cross cultural ones based on long distance relationships may be more fragile than others, especially in the beginning. Just because the marriage will get the woman a visa doesn't mean that every woman who leaves her husband after coming to the US married him just for a visa.

 

Am I defending her? No. I think communication is the most important thing in a relationship, and that she would let the marriage break down to nothing, hide it from him all the while, slip off when his back was turned, and have a 3rd party give the news is reprehensible. She has a lot of strikes against her. I just hesitate to instantly assume visa fraud everytime one of these marriages ends.

 

I think what squeaky is going through is terrible. It's what all of us fear most, whether we think it is likely to happen to us or not. The sad fact is that some of our members reading right now who are engaged, in love, and blissfully happy, will be in the exact same position in a year, and none of them right now could concieve of the notion. I feel bad for even saying it, but it is an inevitability. Some of us will get burned, bad.

 

Some of these will be cases of the girl willingly using the guy for a greencard. Some of these will be cases of the girl being unable to adjust to the US, or falling out of love when reality comes calling. Some of these will end it and run back to China. Some will probably keep it quiet until they get the green card, and then bolt either because they still want to live in the US, or are afraid to face going back to China a failure. People in a deaperate and troubling situation often have to choose from shades of grey. Going back to China would be more honest, but it might be a frightening concept.

 

We all need to realize these possibilities, but not be obsessed or frightened of them. While a red flag is a red flag, no one needs to resort to spying or jumping to conclusions, etc, etc. There are no fairy tales, and there are no happy endings, because nothing ever ends. Life moves on always, and with it brings change for weal or woe.

 

I think squeak is better served by our support, condolences, and (if it becomes necessary) advice than by having us vent our rage about his wife, and run down someone who until just recently was the closest person to him. At least unless he initiates it. If he says "That lying $#$#" then I'll say "Hell yeah!", otherwise I will remain politely silent about it.

[cosmiclobster]

All I can say to this is that some of these matches "made in heaven" really arent!

 

Without intending to single out anyone in particular, consider some of the drastic lifestyle changes that some of these ladies are in for.

Examples:

Girl from south of China (hot climate 100% of the time) moves to Maine.

Girl from Shanghai moves to town of 5000 people, 100 cows, 50 horses and 350 chickens.

Girl from very small town in China moves to NYC.

Girl who never drinks alcohol gets engaged to a man who drinks everyday.

Girl who keeps her own house immaculately clean marries a slob.

 

Of course, hopefully these girls have some idea of what they are getting them selves into before they come here. They can't imagine how different it will be until they get here and see it for themself, but hopefully they were proficient enough on the internet to have done a little background research about the place they are going to. Hopefully their intended was honest enough with them so that they have some real idea of what kind of person they are engaged to (or married to already!!).

 

I am also making no excuses for the gold diggers who lied their ass off for the single purpose of getting to the US and a green card. There is no excuse for this and these women should be sent back to China!

[Randy W]

Well, yes in that case I would be outraged.  I guess one of the reasons everyone isn't furious and condemning this woman for being a visa digger is that it's not definate that this is what she is.  Many marriages fail, and cross cultural ones based on long distance relationships may be more fragile than others, especially in the beginning.  Just because the marriage will get the woman a visa doesn't mean that every woman who leaves her husband after coming to the US married him just for a visa.

 

Am I defending her?  No.  I think communication is the most important thing in a relationship, and that she would let the marriage break down to nothing, hide it from him all the while, slip off when his back was turned, and have a 3rd party give the news is reprehensible.  She has a lot of strikes against her.  I just hesitate to instantly assume visa fraud everytime one of these marriages ends.

 

I think what squeaky is going through is terrible.  It's what all of us fear most, whether we think it is likely to happen to us or not.  The sad fact is that some of our members reading right now who are engaged, in love, and blissfully happy, will be in the exact same position in a year, and none of them right now could concieve of the notion.  I feel bad for even saying it, but it is an inevitability.  Some of us will get burned, bad.

 

Some of these will be cases of the girl willingly using the guy for a greencard.  Some of these will be cases of the girl being unable to adjust to the US, or falling out of love when reality comes calling.  Some of these will end it and run back to China.  Some will probably keep it quiet until they get the green card, and then bolt either because they still want to live in the US, or are afraid to face going back to China a failure.  People in a deaperate and troubling situation often have to choose from shades of grey.  Going back to China would be more honest, but it might be a frightening concept.

 

We all need to realize these possibilities, but not be obsessed or frightened of them.  While a red flag is a red flag, no one needs to resort to spying or jumping to conclusions, etc, etc.  There are no fairy tales, and there are no happy endings, because nothing ever ends.  Life moves on always, and with it brings change for weal or woe.

 

I think squeak is better served by our support, condolences, and (if it becomes necessary) advice than by having us vent our rage about his wife, and run down someone who until just recently was the closest person to him. At least unless he initiates it.  If he says "That lying $#$#" then I'll say "Hell yeah!", otherwise I will remain politely silent about it.

152986[/snapback]

 

 

VERY well put, guy! Thank you

[Trigg]

I think outrage should be held in reserve until both sides of the story are known.

[sfarkas103]

"Warning signs" do exist, but they may be subtle. I have know women here who gradually increase their questions to the unattached teachers where I work about the type of home the guy has, what his prospects are, and what his opinions are of marrying a Chinese girl. Of course this only helps if you are physically in China. For those who opt to meet someone through the Internet all I can say is, don't. I have spent 3 years in China as a university professor, have known my fiancee for all 3, and have lived together for the past 11 months. You simply have to spend enough physical time with them to really judge their motives. Go through the times when the money gets tight (a rarity here for us, but still does arise during the winter/summer university breaks), illness, daily s**t of life as it exists here, see how jealous she becomes when female students fawn all over you, notice if she changes attitude in public when people stare (and oh how they stare) and see if she has an attitude about being with a foreigner, not a man she loves. I think all couples contemplating marriage should have to be together physically at least a certain length of time, and make the petitioner be present at the interview. Anyway, outrage? Sure. Who's responsible? We are. Chinese culture breeds deceit, it's the way the country runs. Their sensibilities are different, period. To be fair we are no picnic either, and generally "kiss A**" less than the modern Chinese males do.

At times early on my SO had commented that "a Chinese boyfriend would do this", well, I am not Chinese and if you want one you are more than free to get one. Through time, patience, and a hell of a lot of face to face discussion we now understand each other.

[chinajesse]

You know the drill on this board. Say something deragatory and it will be erased. The 2 people that started this board ran into the same problem as you and Mark but many members on this board would rather put a sheet over the issue and would never consider it happening to them. What amazes me the most, Dave, is that people on the original board used to help each other when they were unfairly singled out and denied a visa. When was the last time that you saw community letters written in behalf of those poor members that fell between the cracks or a mass effort contacting news media? Perhaps it is a different world today....hoorah for me and to h... with you....

[Trigg]

You know the drill on this board. Say something deragatory and it will be erased. The 2 people that started this board ran into the same problem as you and Mark but many members on this board would rather put a sheet over the issue and would never consider it happening to them. What amazes me the most, Dave, is that people on the original board used to help each other when they were unfairly singled out and denied a visa. When was the last time that you saw community letters written in behalf of those poor members that fell between the cracks or a mass effort contacting news media? Perhaps it is a different world today....hoorah for me and to h... with you....

152998[/snapback]

Wasn't it about 4 months ago when we sent a community letter to maura harty--right after we raised money for an abused chinese woman--right after we raised money for a chinese wife who had her daughter abused by her american husband--the community mindest is still alive and well-it jsut doens't manifest often enough

Edited September 11, 2005 by Trigg (see edit history)

[Dan R]

With as many people doing the K visa for green card thing I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more. Most of the ones I know of though were straight business deals. There are those that do it with plans and often these women have friends here that did it too. A warning sign may be having a friend network here. But that isn't always the case.

 

I think many of the women do it as a gamble hoping that it will work out but with back up plans ready. This isn't that they aren't trying to make it work either but is part of Chinese culture. Many have friends whose example they are following. Many seek a more comfortable life and may have an awakening when they find it isn't. They then will attempt plan two. People differ, situations differ and if you look for problems they may develop. We all take chances

 

Like any relationship we enter, there is the risk of being hurt.

[Jeikun]

You know the drill on this board. Say something deragatory and it will be erased.

152998[/snapback]

Unless it degenerates to personal attacks on other members, an argument so driven it turns the thread into a "chat room", or total character asassination against someone who we don't know at all in a situation we have few of the facts about, I have no intention of deleting anything, nor do I think Don or the mods will.

 

This will perhaps need to be moved to another section though, as it's not so much "general visa discussion". Though I'll leave it here for the moment as it seems to be a pretty hot topic.

[chinadave2001]

I am also making no excuses for the gold diggers who lied their ass off for the single purpose of getting to the US and a green card. There is no excuse for this and these women should be sent back to China!

152987[/snapback]

Therein lies the problem- it's just too easy, once you meet a few sypathethic Americans with resources - to stay here after leaving the person who petitioned for you. The government is not interested at all in going after these women - they are too far down the priority list.

I think that these women know that if they can get across the border, they are here to stay. (By these women, I mean the small percentage that are only here for visas)

[Trigg]

Ya, it's a topic worth discussing!!!!!!