chinadave2001

I was surprised when I logged on today to see this this two year old thread had been revived....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15351469/Interesting. I thought this might be interesting and or relevant to the discussions of why there is such a delay. Best, CD

I am a veteran ESL history teacher in a public school. Call the school in question and discuss this with a guidance counselor. ESL students are frequently not required to meet the same conditions to graduate. They may even just allow her to graduate with her class and I think the intensive experience of being in school would be terrific for her English.

There is vast difference between what I would call a normal break up (two people grow apart after some time) and discovering that your loved one used you to get here just to get a green card and then splits, accuses you of abuse, or some variation of this sort.

I think that the only thing that I would wish to add to this thread is this: There's a trap that we, as Americans, can fall into. At least I did. It's the "cultural understanding" trap. If your gut tells that something is not right, some little trigger goes off in your head, listen to it very carefully and do not simply dismiss it as a "cultural difference." I am a well travelled 40 year old history teacher who teaches this stuff (cultural relativity and such ) and it came back to haunt me because no matter how poorly she acted, I always rationalized it as being either a cultural difference or a manifestation of the stress of the situation. In reality, she was just a very evil, psychopathic person who wanted only one thing - a green card. There were so many red flags that I dismissed that it makes me feel really stupid to think about it now. Maybe the rest of you are just smarter than I am. Or Luckier.

In order to teach in a public school anywhere in the USA you need at least a bachelor's degree and a certification to teach. The certification typically consists of five courses and a student teaching experience. There are many ways in which one can get this certification. If you already have a four year bachelor's degree then it will take about one year of school to be a public school teacher. Private schools do not require a certification to teach but they do require the four year degree. Private school salaries are much lower than public schools.

ok, this will be my last post on this subject. really. 1. I no longer have any direct interest in this conversation. I have marrried, quite happily, an American woman. my life has literally never been been better. 2. The abuse of the VISA system by so many Chinese is not a low number. When I withdrew my petition for my ex, the morning after she ran away, the INS officer told me that situations such as mine were very common. "It could have been much worse" I was lucky because we had never married or filed the 864. 3. This statement has been confirmed by a number of folks who have contacted me by phone, email and pm over the last few days. Guys have been jailed, had restraining orders placed on them, etc. Others have had their girlfriends just dump them because they found a better choice. Yes, this really happens to folks. No, not that often here on CFL but it does happen. I supect that it happens more often than we know but people choose not to post their situations for a variety of reasons. 4. The violence against women act is an easy recipe for a green card. all you need to do is convince a few social workers that you are being abused and you win the green card bingo. The INS website tells you exactly what to do. 5. The fact that some abuse the system and do not return is exactly why the visa process is never going to be fixed. There is no interest in fixing it as it helps to sift some of the fraud cases by being so difficult to navigate. The INS knows that there is virtually no enforcement of the idea that if it doesn't work out the first two years, on a k1 and k3 visa, then you are supposed to return. Yeah right. Moreover, the overall abuse of the visa sytem by Chinese in general is exactly what makes it hard to invite your relatives over. Which in turn is why it will never improve. 6. I am grateful for the support and advice of Don, Mick and Dave G that literally walked me through some very tough days two years ago. I owe a great debt to CFL which I doubt I can ever repay. I hope Mark and others in his shoes seek and receive similar great advice. God bless, CD

One might also argue that it is exactly this kind of behavior that has made it so very difficult to get the visas in the first place. People who abuse the Visa process make it more difficult for everyone else.

Lee, this is exactly the kind of thing I would have writteen before my situation became what it did. The fact that Ling is not returning to China but has run away with another speaks volumes as far as I am concerned. OK, here's what really pisses me off: That these visa diggers come over here with anyone they can and hope for the best with that particular guy but if he doesn't treat them exactly as they believe they should be or are entitled to, then on to the next guy. Any sense of real love or committment is strictly a matter of "what's in it for me." Very pragmatic but it really sucks if you end up being the suckered. The problem with CFL is that the site is designed and intended to promote these relationships and conversations such as this do not fit in that mission.

Don't all of the K visas require two years of successful marriage before she can legally stay?

I cannot describe the warning signs without getting into the personal details of what happened. Maybe one of these days I'll post my story in detail. It's truly amazing how stupid and foolish I was. All the warning signs were there - I just ignored them and made excuses for them. Cultural differences, stress and all that ... Is it unreasonable to expect that these women should have to go back to China if it doesn't work out in the first two years? Lets' assume for a moment that "the relationship just wasn't what she expected." Does that give her the right to stay anyway?

I am also making no excuses for the gold diggers who lied their ass off for the single purpose of getting to the US and a green card. There is no excuse for this and these women should be sent back to China! 152987[/snapback] Therein lies the problem- it's just too easy, once you meet a few sypathethic Americans with resources - to stay here after leaving the person who petitioned for you. The government is not interested at all in going after these women - they are too far down the priority list. I think that these women know that if they can get across the border, they are here to stay. (By these women, I mean the small percentage that are only here for visas)

I am somewhat startled by the lack of outrage at what has happened to Mark, myself, and many others. We were suckered by women who wanted only one thing - an American green card. They promised anything and everything, said all the right things, slept with us, and then, once the goal was in sight and the border successfully navigated, quickly turned and looked for a better deal. Hell, my ex was handing out her email address on the goddamned airplane ride over here! All I am saying is that when this stuff happens, there is a very muted response. If an American guy did this to a Chinese girl, you guys would be all over him. Imagine the response, if an American guy married the Chinese girl, and then, after a year or two, said " Get out and go home. I want a different, better, younger, prettier, richer ,etc., chinese girl. You did not fulfill my expectations." You guys would be all over him condemning him and offering help. It seems to me that there is a double standard here. Just my thoughts. CD

I think the coolest place to spend in China is probably somewhere up north, near the border of Russia and North Korea.

"Every night at home she goes into another room with her phone calling her friends, she gets the update on what everyone is doing, what they are planning on doing that night etc... She's been getting up at around 6am in the morning to call back home everyday. This started getting to me so i had a talk with her, since she's has been doing this for over a month. She has a lot of guy friends she talks to also which at first didnt bother me, but once when i walked in while she was talkn( can hear it was guy) she quicky made a excuse that the phone was staticy and told person she would call them back. I had ask her about this and she says she doesnt like other people around when she is on the phone. I understand that she is trying to adapt to her new home, but every night. I told her i would like to spend some time with her to talk about stuff. Its not like im not letting her talk to her friends but every night? We never spend anytime together, since i work all day." Warning: My relationship did not survive 3 months so I probably have a jaded point of view. Take everything I say with a grain of salt. So you work all day, and during the few free hours that you have she spends most of it talking to people in China, including her male friends? Sorry, but I do not think that is normal or some kind of cultural difference. What exactly is she doing to make this relationship work/improve/better? Sounds like you are doing it all so far. Just my thoughts. CD

When I was being treated for cancer three years ago I did Acupuncture three times a week. It was tremendous relief for the side effects of chemo and radiation. Some Western doctors are very skeptical about it and say its more of a placebo effect than anything else but relief is relief, no?

you think so? What about those that have no shower proper ? that was not my experience. quite the opposite reallly.

Happy Birthday Mick! 56! You Old dog! Glad to hear that all is going well for you guys. Dave

Hi David, we first went to Rome. We were about a block away from the Vatican when the new Pope was elected. All the church bells in the city started ringing - it was great. Everyone was very excited. We mainly visited the ruins of ancient Rome - the Forum, Palantine Hill, The Christian Catacombs, etc. It was all great. Then we went to Florence. Saw "David" by Michelangelo, as well as Brunelleschi's Dome and the famous doors of the Baptistry by Ghiberti. We decided not to wait in line for the Ufizzi Museum however as we were sort of "Museumed out." We then went to Venice where we did the usual stuff there - shopping and gondola rides, etc. Overall the week was wonderful and romantic but I did suffer a bit from sticker shock. I had always read about expensive things in Europe but it was beyond my imagination - we typically spent 50 dollars for lunch which was 2 cokes and two pieces of pizza. Dinner was around $150 -200 per meal. A single coke was about 6 or 7 Euros which at an exchange rate of 1.36 dollars to the Euro comes in at about $10! Thieves! Despite this, we had an awesome time. The food was great and the people were very friendly. On our next trip to Italy - summer of 2007 - we will be going out to the Countryside so Hopefully it won't be quite so bad.

I hope I do not offend anyone but here are my thoughts on this question. I have a slightly different perspective as you will see. During the five months I lived in China, I dated four Chinese women and got engaged to one. Altogether about two years of relatinships with Chinese women. When the last one worked out rather poorly, I later married an American woman. ( Last week by the way) So my comments on this subject do not apply to any particular Chinese woman but are rather my observations as a whole group. As a whole, I do not think that that the word materialistic can be used to describe all Chinese women - I am sure that one of the girls I dated was not in fact materialistic. The other three were. Those same three were obsesssed with money. The Chinese women that I dated are less mature than their American counterparts at a similar age. I think a 20 year old Chinese girl is more like a 13 year old American girl. I also think that maybe the Chinese are doing a better job of protecting their children's innocence and childhood than we do. ( I would add that all of the girls I dated were in their 20's). Communication with American women is so easy. All of the subtle things that we do with gestures, facial expressions, humor, tones, sarcasm , etc. are understood. I found that with Chinese women I often had to simplify things a lot in order to make my point understood. And it was very easy to be misunderstood. In many ways it was like speaking to a child - It's not their fault - just the situation in which neither of us spoke the other's language well enough. Some folks have expressed that this is the fun part of their relationship but I found it very fustrating. I think that the concept of face is more imprtant than in the USA. Frankly, I do not give a @#$%^&* what others think most of the time. Certainly my wife does not. There is a certain vanity and ego thing to the entire face thing. There is also a real dark side to it which demands things like revenge against perceived wrongs. I think that family is important to both - as are careers - Maybe the four women that I dated are not a good enough sampling to make such observatins and generalizations. I do know that now, at the age of 38, That I have finally met and married the right women and she is an American. I think that if I had met or dated women in their 30's I might have a different impression but I did not. My current American wife takes extraodinary care of me. She loves me in every possible way and there isn't a thing that she wouldn't do for me. More importantly, she is my peer and equal in every way. She doesn't need me in any unhealthy ways - just the right ways. She has advanced college degrees and can hold her own in any argument. yes, I find that attractive. None of the women I dated had a 4 year degree. or the equivalent of a liberal arts background. We had a great wedding last week of 170 people and then honeymooned in Italy. Boy, are things a lot more expensive there than China! Anyway, we had a great time and now are back to work and getting ready for a summer on Cape Cod.

I'm going to give you a different perspective. Maybe this is how she really handles such things. Are you prepared to live like that? Some folks can handle it - just look at their posts above. I was not able to. If she gets that upset over a mild thing, whats going to happen when there is real stress in your relationship? I grew up in a house where there was lots of yelling and anger all the time and there was no way in hell I was going to spend the rest of my life that way. I think only you can judge the "truth" of your situation. The rest of us can only speculate as we do not know the individuals involved. It's easy to say generalizations like "Chinese women do this or that" but they are all different, just like any other group of human beings. Search your feelings, talk to her about it, spend some more time with her. My two jiao. Good Luck! CD

Qingdao INternational School is a good one. Contact Jeff Fischer there. They have a good reputaion and the salary is very high. Nicy city to be in too - great beer, beaches and good BBQ! CD

Two things: 1. There was a lot of press about women being kidnapped and sold into marriages last year in the New York Times. Apparently there is real shortage of women in some parts of China, which in turn had had led to an increase in Kidnappings etc. This is not propaganda per se, although a Tawain TV station may in fact being using it that way. There have also been press reports of Chinese natinals being kidnapped and sold to those who use them in sex trade industry in other countries. In some parts of China there are a lot more boys being born than girls - as high as 1.4 boys per girl. I think this problem will only get worse in the future. 2. I imagine that given the state of the economy in China, the government there can afford to buy their own condoms if they want to for the people of China.

I'll buy this. Have you ever read what the "Christians" did in the Crusades? I do not want to hijack this thread. This poor girl has enough on her plate. I do not have much to say except that maybe his dedication to his old family will carry over to his new family, especially once the new Baby arrives. Having children changes everything as I have recently found out for myself. I wish the RR was still around - I'd say let's take this in there! Anyway, while I would certainly agree that Christianity has had its share of violence, so have other faiths. Buddhism is most prevalent in China, Japan, Cambodia and Viet Nam. It seems to me that they have had a few conflicts along the way. Religion is not the source of conflict - humanity is. People use religion as a pretext for other goals like power and riches. Just my two jiao. CD

Way to Go Pats! Dynasty! Yahoooooo!