If my wife is a "mail order bride", then?

[Mengxin]

Cool, at least I know that I wasn't the only one P.O.'d after reading it. They are clearly making a statement in the article against Asian American couples, but at the same time are saying that if it implied that they seemed racist in the article, they didn't mean it. Then they went a step further and put some #'s on the board. They had to filter the stats down to get the percentages to seem significant, when all the #'s actually represent are percentages of filtered down #'s. In the whole article see how many references to marriages with Chinese woman there are. 1 reference out of the total # of 96,000. They pointed out, (in an indirect way) they found no significant evidence of fraud. Especially no evidence of fraudulent marriages with Chinese women.

 

We all know that frauds and liars are out there. No denying it. Just wonder how bad the #'s really are. this report is garbage, but makes a big statement. The government has such a big problem with fraudulent Asian American and Euro-American couples that we need to launch an investigation about it and get the word out to "stop the frauds." then after it's all said and done what was the conclusion vs. the facts from the study?

Conclusion: We have a problem with frauds vs. The facts: a very very small problem.

 

Stuff like this is what really bugs me. I confess, before I ever went to China I had sort of a negative image in my head about it. (not too negative.) I saw sneaker ads on 60 minutes, talk about how awful Communism is, "Red China" and the arms race, baby killers, a 3rd world society and all sorts of jokes about Chinese. Talking with old folks about China isn't too great either. "Oh you know what HSBC means...? Hong Kong Shanghai Bank of China that's what. they're taking away our jobs and now our banks too.

 

I expected to feel prejudice against when I got there. After the 1st two weeks of traveling to Shanghai for work. all that non-sense was erased. I was made to feel welcome and everyone I met was friendly. The term Shanghaied in Shanghai is a term to describe the way that things were. it is certainly not that way anymore. Even when I go to visit my mother in law "deeper into Red China". I see that the standard of living, the economy and culture are totally different from America, even more more less westernized the further away from the city I go. What stands out the most to me is the people. They aren't much different than we are. They live without all the fancy material items and luxuries most Americans would consider a necessity, but they compensate for it by building closer bonds with friends and family members. At my mother in laws neighborhood, everybody knows each other. Daddy goes out and hangs with his pals at the park. People are out and about after dark, socializing with each other. Weird....?

 

The Chinese may be taking away our jobs and growing quickly economically. Now there's "another problem", one of them has taken away my heart too. I just tell her to be careful with it till she gets here. Seems that most negative idea's and comments come from people that have never been to China. I have not talked to one person yet that has come back from China and not enjoyed their stay. The people make all the difference, learning the language better only increases the fun. Our government doesn't need to be posting crap like that up on the internet to justify their employment. Very nice ".gov." Thanks bashing other countries and the minority of us fellas that have loved ones overseas so you can justify your jobs. That's why I get mad when I read story's like Alex's. Getting rejected to keep their job security in tack, for the sake of the loved ones they keep apart. that sucks. we are at there mercy. I even worry about if my comments might come back to haunt me. I feel a whole lot better after getting that off my chest now though.

[eeyore]

Stuff like this is what really bugs me. I confess, before I ever went to China I had sort of a negative image in my head about it. (not too negative.) I saw sneaker ads on 60 minutes, talk about how awful Communism is, "Red China" and the arms race, baby killers, a 3rd world society and all sorts of jokes about Chinese. Talking with old folks about China isn't to great either. "Oh you know what HSBC means...? Hong Kong Shanghai Bank of China that's what. they're taking away our jobs and now our banks too.

 

A lot of that stereo type is left over from the cold war way of thinking.

 

Things have improved a lot in China since the Tienemein square days. But the incident did happen and the Chinese gov would probably do it again. That is to say that even though things are far from perfect here they are for the most part better than China. Hong Kong and Shanghai are very modern and do not fit the stereo type at all, Shanghai is a very beautiful city; however, the Chinese gov still has room for improvement. The rural parts of China (that I saw anyway) still looked comparatively poor and primitive.

 

Here is something interesting;

 

My wife was telling me that she received a e-mail at work that made her a little nervous. The Chinese gov extradited someone back to Pakistan and the e-mail was stating that there could be a terrorist group retaliation because of the extradition. I said to her it could be just a prank, not to worry about it and wait for some official report. She said the gov would not warn the Shanghainese if a threat was discovered. Then I said well, wait for the news to give a warning. She said that the press would not be allowed to give any kind of warning. She is a little worried and so am I esp since they removed the lids from all the trash containers in the subway. The e-mail said it was to make it more difficult to hide explosives. But the gov and media will not make a comment. They will neither confirm or deny.

 

At least the press here in the states would be allowed to report it if they discovered it.

[warpedbored]

I read the article this morning but I had to go to work and didn't have time to respond. I am all for a letter writing campaign to the USCIS. How dare they publish such a bigoted and defamitory article based on so much bullshit. First of all I find the term "mail order bride" very offensive. Right up there with Chink and Nigger. Second of all if they are so short of funding they don't have adequate resourses to process our paperwork why are they blowing money to research such foolishness. The alegation that we are ,merely seeking foreign brides because we want to control and dominate our spouses is beyond outrageous. Obviously they don't know much about Chinese women if they believe that they are so submissive. Like some of you pointed out they can't even keep their stats straight because of the author of the study's predisposed predjudice. To say we have a lower divorce rate (which I believe is probably true) then say we probably have a higher one only shows how narrow minded the author is. One of you mentioned that they didn't see any reason to be offended and that it isn't a big deal. I strongly disagree. Any number of national newspapers are likely pick up on this and publish it. We have a hard enough time now fighting the public perception that we married an Asian woman because no American woman would have us. One last point before I get carried away with my rant. Why is it that if you meet an American woman on a match.com type of site it's an internet romance but if you meet a foreign woman she's a mail order bride. Seems to me the american woman is a mail order bride too then isn't she? I am going to go grumble in the corner now and try to control my rage.

[Jeikun]

And the name of some of their sources... "Mail Order Brides: Women For Sale" How fucking crass.

[Jeikun]

Lord, I just read that again.... If I was a high school Social Studies teacher I would have given it a D- at best. So much conjecture... quotes statistics then says "based on this guys personal opinion though, they are probably wrong", then says no stats exist for something, but says "This is almost definately the case, based on some quote from some guy based on his opinion that conflicts with the stats from an earlier point". How stupid!!! It's a clear case, of "I know this is true, and I'm going to write a paper on it, and if the facts get in my way, screw em!!" And this yahoo is a PhD??? Damn... I should write articles for the USCIS.

[Guest DragonFlower]

Crap in,Crap out

 

So many "studies" nowadays just reanalyze the data from some other study.They end up extrapolateing whatever result they desire.

 

Recently someone did a rehash study that soda pop causes esophogeal cancer.They looked at one study that said more people drink soda now than 10 years ago,at another that said throat cancer had increased.

No independent data ,no correlation-just grab some numbers out of the air and publish,publish,publish!

 

Haha,are you a cheat if you do a study using some one elses data.

We would not want to ask the actual people involved(Before we slime them with this malicious BS).

Easier just to make the numbers fit your opinion and hope nobody catches on.

 

GGGRRRRrr

 

long

[Jason+Joanna]

To quote a famous saying: "There are lies, Damn Lies, and then there are stats.". Meaning that you can produce a statisical study to "prove" just about anything.

[MoonCarolCafe]

The Chinese gov extradited someone back to Pakistan and the e-mail was stating that there could be a terrorist group retaliation because of the extradition.

 

Heh. Oh me oh my. Osama B and the Al Q are going to fling poo at the folks who'd like to invade Taiwan... just because?

 

They would do well to remember that China has a surplus of young males.

[chrisnhong]

IMHO, this study is well out of date in that it pre-dates the internet era. It needs to be done again, properly and by someone INDEPENDENT. This report was actually given to Congress and may go some way to explaining why the whole foreign spouse/fiancee visa process has generally blown out past a year....

[Mengxin]

You thought that one page was something to read? That's not all.

I see that the ".gov" site was last updated with this "news" on 12/06/04. Only 1 month ago. I wonder if it was to take information out or to put it in? Since this was recently updated does this mean that the goverment still takes this veiw point torwards us and our spouces? This almost appears to be racial descrimination to me. Isn't that against the law? Thanks to the nuckle head that provided us this report, so that we can see the truth about our goverment and immigration department. We all felt that the chinese were discriminated against before, here's proof from the horses mouth.

 

The Chinese Immigrant Files

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/CHINESE.htm

 

http://www.archives.gov/facilities/finding...mmigration.html

 

Looks like either our wives are liying to us when they say "I love you", we're all too stupid to not realize that our wives are all prostitutes. or the ones that aren't for sale and actually love us, we are so cruel to beat the living hell out of them. They are Chinese either, their Korean. Just passing on the facts guys. So which one of the Mark's and Jason's is it on this board is beating the crap out of your Korean "wanna be Chinese" prostitute wife? That's what I want to know. According to the report this problem is growing at an alarming rate and our hero's in Washington are out to save the prostituse and arrest us wife beaters. stop it now guys, there on to us. i'm not going to hang with you guys no more and I'm filing for devirce.

Carl, You'll want to be sitting down for this.

 

Last Modified 12/08/2004

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstud...ies/Mobrept.htm

 

From their list of references used to write the report...

1997 "Bought and Sold."

1994 "Mail-Order Brides: Women for Sale."

1994 "Mail Order Bride: Gilded Prostitution and the Legal Response."

1997 "AF ISO WM: How Many Mail-Order Brides?"

 

There is no bias in the report though, if we felt like there was bias torwards Chinese-American marraiges, they didn't mean it I'm sure.

 

Written 1999

http://uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffairs/ne...srels/bride.htm

 

Funny how all these links are under the "About Us" section of the website.

it's obviously all "About them" isn't it?

 

The full report to congress

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstud...obrept_full.pdf

 

Reports and Studies

http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/

 

This problem has been escalated all the way to the top.

From the State department

http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2003/

 

From the President of the United States http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/rpt/25017.htm

There is actually a justifiable reason to make it so difficult to get a visa for our wives. Here's an excerpt from our President.

Justification: The Government of North Korea is making no effort to address trafficking in persons. The Government of North Korea carries out widespread forced labor abuses within the country. Conditions in North Korea drive large numbers of Koreans to seek a way out of the country, putting them at risk of victimization by traffickers. Women who enter Northern China from North Korea may be sold as brides and forced into prostitution. Although other U.S. measures against North Korea are in place, the President’s determination indicates the strong U.S. disapproval of the North Korean (and Chinese*) Government’s failure to address trafficking in persons.

Appearantly we don't realize that our wives are NOT Chinese either, there really Koreans pretending they are Chinese. Glad to see all these un-bias books about the subject being posted to prevent the prostitution ring that is being run here by CFL.

 

Wait! That means Don's a Pimp, no way. That's awsome!

 

Does that make our president the leader of the KKK? Khinese Klux Klan. hmmm ...

The guys upstairs are all black and white. Just like the way the report is written.

 

I have never felt so disappointed about our leadership before. I have always defended the president, but he is cleariy trying to pick fights with other countrys. I don't really give a rats ass about Korean woman going to China to make a better life for themselves. It's their freedom of choice if they choose to do that. Stay out of there damn business. Now your crossing the line and included trashing me and my wife. I can't support those ideals anymore.

Sorry to get sort of political but geez, can you make your intentions to attack korea any more obvious?

This is the only justification for Sanctions against Korea? That's pathetic.

Impact of Sanctions: The United States does not provide direct assistance to North Korea. The United States provides food aid for North Korea through the United Nations World Food Program. The World Food Program has received and distributed $650 million in food aid from the United States. The United States has provided more than half of the World Food Program’s food aid to North Korea since 1995. Food insecurity is an ongoing problem in North Korea and the population remains vulnerable to malnourishment, disease, and starvation. The food aid provided by the United States helps to alleviate the desperate situation in North Korea. This assistance to North Korea is purely humanitarian, and the sanctions against North Korea will not adversely impact food aid.

(I like the line at the end, and oh our sanctions won't hurt them anyway. then what is the point behind the sanction? Breeding hatred?)

 

This stuff is posted by our own goverment officials on USCIS and State Department websites. 1st class all the way. yes sir...

 

Disclaimer: This is a very serious issue, i just tried to add a little humor to it.

* - I included the unsaid word "and Chinese" for them.

[warpedbored]

I dont have time to read it this morning. I have to go to work and I don't want to be pissed off all day. Obviously something has to be done. People can't just let this kind of malicious slander shape our countries immigration policies. We may be ffew but if we are loud enough maybe someone will listen.

[C_L_R2004]

I'm afraid this will make you guys mad. I really don't think the study was that bad. Although it was speculative in some places, particularly about the potential for abusive American spouses, for the most part it had a reasoned and neutral tone.

 

Are you guys so sure the speculation was actually that far off? I've certainly read a number of newspaper stories, at least one of which was referenced in the study, where a controlling American spouse killed his foreign spouse. Of course, this is only antecdotal backup, but at least it's food for thought.

 

I didn't get the feeling the report considered itself to be the final word on the subject of foreign spouses, just a review of the best information available at the time of writing. Sure, one can always pick out weaknesses in any study, but you guys don't offer much of rebuttal, just outrage and unsubstantiated countercharges that make the study look all the more reasonable in comparison. I hope any response sent to the government is more measured than what I've read so far.

 

So why are you guys so mad? I tried to figure that out before responding, but I'm still puzzled. The report ended by recommending possible closer examination of the American petitioner in the future. Is it so bad to question the motives of those with histories of domestic violence, men who have had multiple foreign brides, or those with mental illness or drug and alcohol problems? Are the study's accusations just a little too close for comfort?

 

I don't know why I'm not offended. I'm like the rest of you in most ways--waiting for my Chinese fiancee to be granted a visa. I met her while I was working in Beijing for two years, but by chance and not by intentionally looking for a wife on the internet. Before that, I really wasn't interested in getting married and had no preference for Asian women. I really can't imagine looking for love on the web, so maybe that is the difference.

 

Let me apologize in advance for my comments. Most of the people on the forum seem to be kind, helpful people. However, a few of you sound just like the types who should be weeded out in the visa process. I feel for the poor Chinese women who have no idea what they're getting into. I hope your anger isn't an indication of control issues.

 

Forums like this are a great place to exchange information and provide emotional support for people who would otherwise be unlikely to find those in similar circumstances. But occasionally your home on the net can get too insular from a lack of differing opinions. I really think you guys should pause before getting too carried away with your righteous indignation.

[Mengxin]

CL, No need to apologize at all. I hoped that my point was clear and that I didn't just sound like a ranting idiot.

I question how thoroughly you read the string howver.

No rebuttle? I know you didn't read it.

Devils advocate? That's cool.

Let me make my point another way.

Do you beat your wife? Probably Not.

Is your wife a prostitute? Probably Not.

Would a man that loved his wife, tolerate another man he didn't know calling is wife a hoar? I wouldn't. You would?

Would it upset you if I told the entire country that in fact your wife is a hoar. And you do beat the crap out of your wife. Maybe not. I'm nobody.

How about if your goverment accuses you of marrige to your wife for the purpose of slavery and sex. You beat this sex, slave you call a wife.

That doesn't upset you? Ok You didn't get that message? Ok?

Back up all of what I just asked ask you with 0 cases of anyof those statements being actually proven. your not upset?

What's left over, and what is the image in the minds of the 3rd party people that just heard me ask you these questions?

Do you think that a 3rd person might come to the conclusion, that You are really married to your wife for slavery and sex. And you really do beat her daily? Why did you need to go to China to find a wife? An American woman would never let you do that to her.

Your a sick and Percerted man, something has to be done to stop you.

Do you think that people would come to that conclusion, even if there is no fact to back it up? It's called Slander. Look it up or read the article again.

What is the image of us that they are trying to protray us as in the report vs. the loyal and honest men that love there wives, just as much as our wives truely love us in return. you think it's good? Please go back and read it again my brother. Assume for just a minute that those of us here have sacraficed much to find the partner of a life time. We are all legitimate. We are truthful, but we are made to face the consequences of a visa delay that is based on perception and not on fact.

You didn't get that message? all righty then.

[C_L_R2004]

A man who can't even spell should not take on academics. Yes, I read the string and was not impressed.

[C_L_R2004]

Sorry, that last comment was uncalled for. It's just that your accusations get wilder and wilder and I have no idea what the basis of your position is. I simply did not get the same thing from the paper first cited. I think we're getting too emotional here for rational debate. Try to get an opinion from a disinterested party.