keelec

Natrigon, I believe that it normally takes about 1-2 months for the majority of the applications to clear NVC. Unfortunately, sometimes they take longer. As yours has hit 3 months, it is time to try to make sure it is being processed. Hopefully your congressman will help. Here is a note from the site www.k1k3.com where a couple had their application held at NVC from 3/12/2003 to 10/1/2003 Oh, here is Robhon's timeline. I am not quite sure what happened to his application. Actually, I was looking at the www.k1k3.com website. The average time at NVC appears to be about 2 weeks for all countries except for Russia and China. For Russia and China it seems to be about 1.5 months. Even residents of many former East Block nations such as Ukraine still get the NVC checks finished in about a week or two. ----- Clifford -----

Ok, I was looking at the times from the assignment of the MOS number to the interview for petitions at the Russian Embassy. First Column, Days from MOS Number (generally assigned at NVC) to Interview Date. The second column is the number of interviews scheduled between November 25 2003 and Jan 27 2004. As far as my application: . . . . MOS Date from NVC: July 29 (120 days ago) . . . . Application Sent to Moscow: August 29 (90 days ago) I would assume that the earliest possible interview would be 30-60 days from now which would put me between 150 and 180 days from when the MOS number was assigned. 0-30 . . . . 1 31-45 . . . 7 46-60 . . . 13 61-75 . . .37 76-90 . . .37 91-105 . .79 106-120 . 22 121-135 . 14 136-150 . 10 151-165 . 11 166-180 . 12 181-195 . 10 196-210 . 10 211-225 . 7 226-240 . 10 241-255 . 18 256-270 . 17 271-285 . 7 286-300 . 8 301-315 . 1 316-330 . 2 331-345 . 0 346-365 . 4 1 to 1 and a half yrs . . . 44 1 and a half to 2 yrs . . . .12 Over 2 yrs . . . . . .. . . . . 24 Some of the timelines are very long (and some very short). However, it is not clear what the visa types are for those).

An interesting topic about HIV/AIDS. Traditionally China and Russia have been big WHITE spots on the AIDS prevalence rate maps: http://www.cdpc.com/95rates.htm (< 0.01% prevalence rate in 1995). Apparently this is increasing SIGNIFICANTLY with “Eastern Europe and Central Asia Region is experiencing the world’s fastest-growing HIV/AIDS epidemic” http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ECA/ECSHD.nsf...0Summary%20.pdf Apparently the number of cases in the region increased by about 25% last year. The new prevalence rates (2002? Now paints a much different picture): http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking...e_rate_aall.htm #1 Botswana 35.8% of population with AIDS #6 South Africa 19.94% #29 The Bahamas 4.13% #55 Ukraine 0.96% #60 USA 0.61% #76 Canada 0.30% #78 Mexico 0.29% #84 China 0.20% #90 Russia 0.18% #102 United Kingdom 0.11% #122 Hong Kong 0.06% Bottom 21, #145 - #165 (0.01%) Afghanistan, Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bhutan, Bulgaria, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, South Korea, Kyrgyzstan, The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Mongolia, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Yemen The USA certainly doesn’t do well with the rankings, although according to the hard to read 1995 chart, things haven’t changed much since 1995. China and Russia, however, have about 1/3 the prevalence rate of AIDS. Unfortunately, they are showing staggering annual increases of the rate. _________________________________________________________________ Hmmm, the above site with rankings is very interesting. Here are a few other selected statistics. Unemployment Rates: ------------------------- Mexico – 3% Ukraine – 3.6% USA – 5% Russia – 8% China – 10% Zimbabwe – 60% Liberia – 70% Birth Rates #1 Bulgaria – 8.05 births / 1000 . . . . -1.11% population growth #3 Italy – 8.93 births / 1000 . . . . . . . . . 0.05% population growth #5 Germany – 8.99 births / 1000. . . . . .0.26% population growth #13 Russia – 9.71 births / 1000 . . . . . -0.33% population growth #56 United States – 14.1 births / 1000 . 0.89% population growth #67 China – 15.85 births / 1000 . . . . . . 0.87% population growth #117 Mexico – 22.36 births / 1000 . . . . 1.47% population growth #189 Afghanistan – 41.03 births / 1000 3.43% population growth #202 Liberia – 45.93 births / 1000 . . . . . 1.91% population growth #204 Somalia – 46.83 births / 1000 . . . 3.46% population growth #208 Niger – 49.95 births / 1000 . . . . . . 2.7% population growth It is interesting that China and the USA are so close together with the birth rate and population growth, as well as how much of Europe is doing better than us in limiting their birth rates. ----- Clifford ------

Hepatitis A is generally Fecal-Oral transmission. Fortunatley, it is almost always an "Acute" Hit and Run infection, and not long term. The more dangerous infections are Hep B & Hep C that are typically blood borne, and can be with you for the rest of your life. I have heard that acupuncture can also be a high risk of some of the blood borne pathogens. ----- Clifford ----

I agree with Mick. Don't escuate problems unless it is absolutely necessary, or pester her with the little stuff. A hundred e-mails a day and you will not only bury her, but there will no longer be any time for the REALLY BIG ISSUES. But, it is good to see that there is someone behind the whole process that cares, and that may be now understanding that the K1-K4 petitioners are REAL AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH FEELINGS TOO. From what I have heard, there has been some effort recently to catch up with the P3 applications and etc. Perhaps they will make a target of a 15-30 day turnaround for the P3 & P4 packets (I know it may be wishful thinking). Although it would be nice to see a system like the UK, or Canada, or South Africa where they can do a 1 week turnaround with the P3 packets and perhaps a 1 month or less turn around for the whole Visa (from the time the packet arrives at GZ), .... Maybe that is just wishful thinking for now. But, who knows what the future will bring. In many senses, the Consulate may be just now getting caught up from the 6+ month backlog from the Black Hole. I hope with a new administration, there will be changes. Hmmm, just like you can write to your congressman for problems, perhaps a thank-you note / note of praise directed to both your congressman and Linda D. would be in order. Hmmm, anybody know who Linda Donahue's boss is? ----- Clifford -----

Is the procedure the same in Moscow, i.e. just get the file into the computer and then send out the P3? Or are there checks to be done before P3 goes out? Hope you see some movement soon! Jerry Jerry, I believe there are some differences between Moscow and China. I believe they do a combined P3/P4 rather than two separate packages. Thus, they may be doing a NameCheck, or some such thing before sending out the P3/P4 packet. I have now sent 3 e-mails to Moscow, 1 month, 2 months, and (just under) 3 months. (plus a couple more while I was in Russia hoping to come home with my lovely fiancee). They are always very terse with the responses, but never have indicated that they "Have not received the application" like GZ does. For the life of me, I can not figure out what kind of "Administrative Processing" could possibly take over a year to do. Before meeting me, my Fiancee had hardly left her home town!!!!!! My current theory is that somehow arranging to meet her for our first "date" in an "Arab Country" (Egypt) has somehow blacklisted us. We do have some age difference between us. However, I would think that any analysis of the personal relationship of the couple would come later. ------ Clifford ------

I am still waiting for something to happen in Moscow. Application sent from NVC to Moscow on 8/29/2003......... Lots of Administrative Processing (oops, I put in July, I meant August) (see sig)

Hi Carl, I'm a little confused by why the P-3 forms are being sent out from GZ for you? Our's are being sent frm the NVC in portsmith, NH. We have already returned the affidavit of support and because they didn't recieve the check for the DS-230 in St. louis we had to resend. So they recieved it and that form was mailed out on Nov.10 and we are still waiting. A regular letter to friend and family from here in Shenzhen to say mass takes about 10 days and same give or take a day or two from them to us. Most all of our mail from NVC is running 24 to 30 days from date on the letter head. So we are figuring by dec 10 we should have that form and we will FedEx back to NH and they will have it in 2 to 3 business days. From our experience of doing this back to mass.. fed ex is right on with their delivery.. Geeez we would love to push this along but are concerned about the bar code page and others that would be needed but awwwww it sure is tempting.. just concerned that saving a week or so by doing that could cause us months of delays if NVC pushed for that bar code page etc.. I guess than the clock will start ticking on the 6 to 8 week process there which invilves the name check and than on to GZ for who knows how long??? Hypoclear, I think I am now understanding where the confusion is. I-129F is used for K1-K4 visa applications. They follow a course with a P3/P4 packets that are generated by the "Posts" (Moscow, GZ, London, etc). These packets require the individuals to fill out and return some of the same forms (DS-230, OF167 or 169???) and send them back to the Posts. I believe the I-130 is supposed to generate the CR-1??? I haven't been doing this. For this, the P3 packet and DS-230 is more or less generated at the NVC in the USA. I assume timelines and organizations for the two processes can be quite different. (Now, you have left poor Robhon's head spinning!!!!) ------ Clifford -----

Hypoclear, I am a bit confused with your post / Timeline. GZ seems to be processing the K1/K3 applications from NVC in about a month or so now and sending out the P3. Of course, it is unclear if they will be able to maintain that pace. You respond with the OF167 and DS-230 (I think). They should be able to be sent out immediately. Then they schedule the interview 1-2 months later with the P4. You will ned the police report, Affidavit of Support, & etc only for the interview. Thus, if all goes well, you could get your interview from GZ in about 3-4 months after your application arrives there. Mick and crew had a special case that they got all the way to the interview only to be told that there would be additional delays (for 7 months) after that. GZ is not supposed to have the post-interview delay anymore (unless they request additional information like support info from you). However, Moscow may be delaying the issuance of the visa after the interview in some cases. I believe that Moscow uses a combined P3/P4. However, I am now 1 week short of 11 months of processing. They are now scheduling the interviews for late January, and thus I am pretty sure that it will be at least 13 months before things finish up with my app. But, at this pace, I am now thinking it may be 14 months!!!! (Valentine's Day)?????? ----- Clifford ------

Carl, It is obvious what is happening to my case. I am getting the "Individual Treatment" Hmmm, Now, if I only knew what "Additional Administrative Processing" really meant????? I have been stuck in Administrative Processing for 3 months!!!! I guess I should feel thankful they recognize having received my application (Unlike GZ that refuses to acknowledge the applications). Hmmm, I am now wondering if organizing our first "Date" so that Irina and I met in the Istanbul Airport, then toured Egypt together for a week and a half was a bad idea??????????? As far as I know, she has absolutely nothing else that is at all remarkable in her history. She hadn't even been to Moscow before meeting me. ----- Clifford ------

Mick, There is absolutely no excuse for the 7 month delay between the interview and the Visa in your case and many others. :D However, from looking at your timeline, what becomes quite obvious is that if GZ had actually mailed your P3 to you, then you likely would have gotten your visa in a mere 8 months, even with going through NSC. That would have been like greased lightening!!! Oops, sorry, I guess I misread your timeline....... That was 10 months from the time sending in your packet to the interview. At this point, I would welcome an interview within 10 months, but I guess that is somewhat more mediocre of a wait. I think NSC is usually quickly doing the initial data entry and sending out the NOA1, but then they put the application on a shelf for 5 months or so before reading it. Somehow, since last fall, an additional 4 months or so has been added to the process for many of us. I am now looking at a mininum of a 13 month timeline.... And I still have no end in sight. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it reaches 14 or more months. (yes, I am one of the last holdouts in the frozen pits of the north, soon to be so covered with ice that nothing will escape for months!!!! :angry" ) I wouldn't be surprised to see an occasional post black-hole timeline that takes MORE overall time than many of the black-hole applications. ----- Clifford ------

I think that many WHITE Americans are very concerned about the huge demographic shift that is occurring in the country now. Immigration is one issue. I believe that whites are a minority of the immigrants, significantly outnumbered by Hispanics, Asians, and Blacks, and Arabs. Yet, a HUGE Portion of the ethnic shift in the USA is coming internally. Middle Class White Americans have one of the lowest birth rates in the USA, and are much more likely than many other classes to wait until the mid-30’s (or later) to begin a family. Many other ethnic groups average larger families, and get started much younger. There are some families that have TWO generations in the same time that it takes me to have ONE. Just think of what happens if I manage to have 2 children by age 40 (net population growth of 0). However, a Hispanic family has 4 children (small family) between ages 16 and 22 (net growth of 2). Then each of those children have 4 more children at about the same age. Suddenly there are 16 grandchildren, and a net population growth of 8 (400% from the original couple), all in the same time span. Yet, the problem is more GLOBAL than anything else. After centuries of huge population growth, China has done a wonderful job at curtailing their population growth. Many other countries are not so fortunate. Perhaps the biggest excuse is limited access to birth control, or a stigma against using it. And, of course, not really caring. It is about time that we realize that we can not fence our country in forever, but we have to deal with the population growth on a global scale. Prior to the world crashing, we need better EDUCATION for the masses with respect to family planning. Better ACCESS to the means to limit one’s family. And, better INCENTIVES to partake in responsible global family planning. Hmmm, I think I’ve heard of that happening somewhere in the world with a lot of success (even if it does seem quite repressive). ------ Clifford ------

There is absolutely nothing wrong with introducing friends. Heck, many people meet their second half through the introductions of friends. Yes, a large number of the foreign women that marry American men are wanting to come to the USA. Yet, they do so for many reasons. Some women are seeking a "Docile and Obedient" husband!!! That aside, I have talked to many Russian women about the subject, and have come to the conclusion that Russian women and American men can make a tremendously good match. We'll see how that holds up over the next few years. I have been told that many Russian men frequently overindulge in Vodka, as well as being generally "Lazy". Although the Russian women want go come to the USA because of an illusion of wealth, they are also looking for a magical loving relationship that they believe can be found in an international relationship. The bottom line is that anybody (both men and women) who is willing to endure over a year of waiting for a visa believes that they have found something better through international dating than they would otherwise find in their own respective countries. I have read some horror stories of women who marry an American Citizen for the sole purpose of taking advantage of his generosity. Yet, I have also seen personals ads posted by men that make me gag and want to heave. ----- Clifford -----

Bryan, You must be from the Northwest (Oregon or Washington). I think that is just a local phrase. Anyway, There are a couple of "Black Hole" service Centers. Nebraska Service Center and Texas Service Center are apparently the worst (average 6 months to prcess applications) Vermont is the best (averages 1-2 months to process applications). No matter what they put on your NOA1, (mine said 70-100 days, I think), it will take 5-7 months for NSC to process your application. What really hurts is that I have seen timelines that started in Vermont, and then were forwarded to London where the entire process from start to finish took less time than half the time my application took to finish the first step in Nebraska. The problem is that as American Citizens, we are an extremely low priority to the INS (and our American Government). Some people have felt the contacting your Congressional Representatives will help. Perhaps it does help a bit and is worth a try. At the least, it may help them wake up and notice that there actually is a problem here. I did see a link somewhere to a report of a rally that was done at the Texas Service Center last spring. I don't think it fixed anything, but perhaps the more often we do that kind of thing, the more that we will get noticed. The current reality is that if you submitted your application in July, you are likely to see it finish up at NSC sometime in January. When is the Chinese New Year? Maybe you will pass step 1 by then. If you are lucky, your application will take 1-2 months at NVC, and then will head off to GZ. It will take anywhere between 4 to 40 days just to get to GZ. Then you will join the crowd that has alreay reached the boiling point in frustration while you await your P3, P4, Interview, and Visa. I hate to smash any hopes, but if the current situation continues, you will be lucky if your fiancee (oh, sorry, your wife) gets here by mid summer next year. Fortunately, there has been a HUGE increase in speed of processing the P3 packets at GZ this fall. I just hope these blazingly fast speeds hold up a little longer. :redblob: ----- Clifford -----

Whew, It is a good thing my fiancee is not Chinese...... One of the gifts I brought her for our first date was a new watch..... SHE LOVED IT!!!!!! Some of the little things we take for granted can be so special to our loved ones. A $20 or a $30 watch could be worth a whole month's wages, and thus utterly unobtainable. ----- Clifford ------

Ummm, they had to wait that long? Here is another one on K1K3.com (London) 6/11/2003 Submitted 129F to VSC 8/19/2003 Approved VSC 8/27/2003 Left NVC 8/29/2003 Received by Consulate (8/4/2003) Sent P3 8/29/2003 Interview Date & Received Visa 2.5 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, here is another one from London: 1/14/2003 Submitted I-129F to VSC 2/4/2003 Approved VSC 2/4/2003 Received by Consulate 2/13/2003 Received P3 2/18/2003 Sent P3 2/25/2002 Received P4 3/27/2003 Interview and Visa 2.5 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I WAITED TWICE THAT LONG TO GET MY APPLICATION THROUGH NEBRASKA SERVICE CENTER, A BIG CHUNK OF THAT AGAIN GETTING THE APPLICATION THROUGH NVC, AND IT NOW HAS BEEN SITTING IN MOSCOW FOR LONGER THAN THE ENTIRE TIME FROM START TO FINISH TO GET A VISA IN ENGLAND. Oh, and looking at the BCIS Statistics: K1/K2 Visas Last Year: United Kingdom. . . 1058 Russia. . . . . . . . . .1999 China . . . . . . . . . .2252 K3/K4 Visas Issued Last Year: UK. . . . . . . . . . . . .83 Russia. . . . . . . . . 100 China . . . . . . . . . 437 Population (1996) China:. . 1,232,080,000 USA:. . . . .265,450,000 Russia:. . . 147,740,000 UK . . . . . . .58,780,000 K1-K4 Visas per million citizens China . . . . . 2.1 Russia . . . . 14.2 UK . . . . . . .19.4

I was looking at a copy of ds-3025, and I was wondering which vaccines were actually required. It wasn't specific on whether it was documenting what has been done, or listing what was required. DPT / DT Diphtheria / Pertussis / Tetanus (Pertussis vaccine normally not given to adults) Td Tetanus / Diphtheria booster. Polio (OPV/IPV) Measles (MMR) Mumps (MMR) Rubella (MMR) Hib (influenza Hepatitis B } Varicella (Chicken Pox) Pneumococcal Influenza I know that Pneumococcus (Pneumonia) is only vaccinated for with people over 60 or so. Influenza is normally considered optional. I don't believe that Chicken Pox is a required childhood vaccination yet. Several of these vaccinations require a series of shots. I know that Hepatitis B requires 3 shots over a 6 months period. Polio also requires multiple shots. Should one check the vaccination status early and start updating them if necessary? ----- Clifford ------

Yesterday when I was browsing, I saw several notes about P.J. putting together a personals ad site in conjunction to the Candle. What happened to it? ----- Clifford ------

Yes, I agree that it helps a lot to track where the application is. I couldn't imagine submitting the application, then patiently waiting 12 -14 months to finally hear something about it's status..... And, mail occasionally gets lost. We all know that the NVC confirmation letter doesn't really exist so one could easily miss a whole big step. I still maintain that one should limit the number of contacts and questions, especially to give them a little time for the dust to settle at each office before bombarding the agency. One of the most frustrating things of the whole process is the inequality between one application and another. One application takes 1 month at BCIS, another takes 6 months. One application takes 3 weeks at NVC, another takes 8 weeks, and another takes 4 months. One application takes 4 days to arrive to the Embassy. The next takes 40. One takes 1 week for Administrative Processing at the Embassy. The next takes 4 months. And, of course, some people get their visas the day of the interview. Some don't. I read on another BBS that Russia may still be issuing "White Slips". ----- Cliff -----

Mick, I am a little puzzled on what you are referring to as being a "blessing to so many people"?????? 1) CFL :D 2) The fact that you joined the Candle !!!!!!!!!! B) 3) You waiting a month or so to join !!!!!!!!!! :lol: Should we put this in as a poll to see what the truth is? (sorry, I couldn't resist, no offence intended, I have actually enjoyed your contributions, at least most of them)

So, does that just leave me waiting for my P3/P4 from Russia (NVC sent to Moscow on August 29). This is actually the longest letter they sent to me, and the first one that suggested a future contact date. I just wish I had some idea of what "Administrative Processing" meant??? Best wishes to all of you who have received the P3 packet, as well as those who are still waiting. ------ Clifford ------

Congratulations...... It is good to see the P3 Pit Crew dwindling....

P.J. Just for curiosity, how much space are we using? Is this a "home server", or rented space on a commercial server? Of course, I haven't read all of the old stuff, but sometimes it is interesting to see some of the old threads. For example, the Mick & Owen trip to GZ. Sometime I still need to look up the "PJ Story" that is supposed to be burried in the bowels of the machine somewhere. If it is a home server, I bet we could get a bunch of people to chip in $5 or $10 towards a new 150 GB HDD (or bigger). That should give enough space for Eric and Mick to play games with their bizarre discussion threads, and perhaps even hold some upload space. Of course, you still would have to deal with backups. How are the routine operating costs being paid now? ------ Clifford -----

One rose is fine. Three are Better. and a Baker's Dozen would be a wonderful gift. BUT, NEVER GIVE A RUSSIAN WOMAN A PAIR OF ROSES OR A DOZEN ROSES. Of course, if she is an American woman, you might think twice before giving her 13 roses!!!! I was just reading Don's note about how candles symbolized Love, Peace, and Hope for one culture, yet, the weeping of the wax symbolized tears in another culture. http://candleforlove.com/forums/index....act=ST&f=1&t=30 It reminded me of what I've been told about Roses and Russian women. Apparently even numbers of flowers are used at funerals, and are used to symbolize death. Odd numbers of flowers represent love. Thus, one never sends a Russian Woman an even number of flowers, unless, it is to say the relationship is dying. ----- Clifford -----

ChinaDave, I think you may be off by a day or so. According to the member logs, P.J. and 5 other members joined the Candle on November 25, 2002. Eric, Don, and enight joined on November 26, 2002. ttlee_99 Joined on november 27. Of course, there are a number of others that have come and gone over time. Oh, This message is marked as "Initial Message" for the General Visa Delay Discussion Forum: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index....?act=ST&f=1&t=1 ---- Clifford Keele ------