keelec

110 + 130 + 65 + 335 + ?.... Oh, Man, More Fees? I thought it was $110. Then I discovered another $100 for the interview. And, now you tell me that there is another $400 that I hadn't realized. It will definitely put a dent in the money tree out back!!!!! And, I can't even deduct my Fiancee from my taxes yet because she hasn't been issued a visa so she could come here and we could get married ----- Clifford ------

I thought I would compare this to the number of births in the USA to try to determine the population shift caused by K1-K4 immigration. The number of K1-K4 immigrants is less than 1% of total the number of births in the USA. Furthermore, it is about 1/4 the number of births to girls under 17, and there are fewer K3/K4 visas issued than the number of births to girls ages 10-14. Maybe we should shift where our efforts are spent. Of course, the 1,000,000 total immigrants / year is a HUGE percentage (1/4) of the number of births. In 2002, there were: 27,340 Fiancee Visas K1 4,257 Children of Fiancees K2 4,575 Spouses with Petition for Immigrant Visa Pending K3 1,158 Children of US Citizens with Immigrant Visa Pending K4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37,330 K1-K4 Visas Issued. In the same year in the USA, there were: 4,019,280 births Out of the above, 138,296 births were to girls 15 to 17 years old (122,202 unmarried, (thus with subtraction, 16,094 married) 7,318 births were to girls 10-14 years old (7,087 unmarried, (thus, by subtraction 231 married) (I have troubles accounting for the 231 girls 14 and under being married and having children). Now, the "scary statistics" 141 of the girls counted above, ages 10-14 were having their second child. 3 were having their third child 1 had her fourth child. (the report did not list multiple births versus single births. The twin rate is approximately 15/1000 for women under 20, i.e. 110 /7,300) References: 2002 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, October 2003, U.S. Department of Homeland Security http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/s...earbook2002.pdf Births: Preiliminary Data for 2002; National Vital Statistics Reports; Vol 51, #11; June 25, 2003 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr51/nvsr51_11.pdf

Where Else in the USA can I purchase a year's worth of labor for $200? I would hope it is not too presumptuous to think that the INS is spending somewhere on the order of 2000 hours to process my application..... Not bad for a $200 investment...... That works out to be about 10 cents an hour..... It is definitely the best labor rates in the whole country Does anybody have a list of the steps that go into the processing of the application? 1) BCIS Office . . . a ) Check if payment amount is correct and cash the check (first thing they do). . . . b ) Data entry of the basic information on the application and send receipt. . . . c ) Review application for correctness and completeness. . . . d ) Forward packet to NVC 2) NVC Office . . . a ) FBI Namecheck (I think this occurs here). . . . b ) Forward packet to Embassy. (what other offices are involved? I was told that several agencies were involved here? Do they contact the IRS to check on back taxes, or other issues?) 3) Embassy . . . a ) Repeat Data Entry, add local mailing address. . . . b ) Is part of the Namecheck repeated here? Perhaps for the Fiancée and her family? I would assume the FBI database would be centralized in the USA. . . . c ) Send out OF-169 (P3) . . . d ) Receive OF-169, and add receipt to application records . . . e ) Schedule Interview and send out P4 . . . f ) Is there a P4 confirmation that needs to be received and entered into the record? . . . g ) COLLECT MORE MONEY . . . h ) Conduct an interview, review financial support and police records. . . . i ) Issue Visa One thing that puzzles me is that a review of local police records comes in as the absolute last step in the process….. I am sure that we can find the 2000+ hours of labor in here somewhere that would require it to take over 1 year to process the application….. Unfortunately, I am still having troubles finding anything that would take over 1 or 2 hours for the whole process????? Somehow I am short about 1998 hours…… If someone else can enlighten me on what happened to those other 1998 hours of processing, please let me know. I would like to have a clearer understanding of the whole process. Thanks, Clifford

Hmmm, 3 case numbers already: LIN number (Nebraska) GUZ number from NVC GUZ number from China. Are the two GUZ numbers formatted the same? Is it possible to confuse the two???? What if GUZ re-used NVC numbers??????? I wonder why they don't assign a single number at BCIS, and have that number follow the application through to the end..... Something like: LIN-GUZ-yyyy-mm-(LIN number)-xxxx Then, if GUZ didn't like the LIN prefix, they could just drop it...... Hmmm, wouldn't want to confuse the Nebraska and Vermont apps so one might want to encode the BCIS office somewhere, or make sure that they don't issue the same numbers. You mean that everyone that has been calling/e-mailing the NVC number may be getting incorrect information about their case status? And, the Embassy doesn't know whether or not they have even opened the packets? I think they could use a little better QA ------ Clifford ------

I would imagine that spelling is somewhat like in the USA. While there may be both a "McDonnell St." and a "McDonald St.", it is rare enough that even if one mispelled the street name, it would likely find the right destination. In Portland there is a "Couch Street" (pronounced "Cooch"). I wonder what would happen if one just wrote "Cooch" on it?????? Do the Chinese use something resembling a Zip Code? Apparently if you use a 9-digit zip code in the USA, it is specific enough to tell the postman which block and side of the street you live on. Hmmm, I wonder if I could just use the 9-digit zip code and a name..... Would it find it's way to the right place? ------ Clifford ------

I think part of the problem is that many of the workers do not realize the full impact of the system. BCIS takes 1 month to 6 months to process the application.....They might think they have the largest part of the processing... However, after them, it gets sent to a number of other offices..... And, if you are immigrating from Canada or Europe, you might be done in less than 8 months..... Of course, my application didn't even leave the USA until after 8 months. People that don't get the "red carpet" treatment in Canada and Europe end up with well over a year waits. Of course, I can't say that 8 months is a reasonable wait either. The St. Louis BCIS Office told me that "Separation brings a couple closer together"..... Hmmmm?????

Oh, I think they would have joined..... Except, Mick scared them off with his 30 pages of mindless ramblings

Actually, You can send a copy of your passport instead of a birth certificate. There was something about when it was issued. Be careful to pay attention to the age of the passport if it is your first passport. I presume that if it is your second or third passport, (or more), it doesn't make any difference how long you have had it. I sent copies of my current passport and the next most recent one. If you send your passport, you will need to photocopy EVERY page, including, the blank ones, I think. ------ Clifford -----

I already did that. For our first date, I tracked down some good Oregon books, as well as a couple of Missouri..... My suitcase was packed with books, and much lighter when I transfered them to her suitcase. Sorry if I offended anybody about Christmas.... In Russia, they actually calculated the birth of Christ being sometime around January 5 (based on inaccuracies in older calendars based on the moon cycle). Thus, they now celebrate Christmas on both December 25 and January 5. Of course, there isn't a Russian Valentine's day either.... But I wouldn't recommend missing that one ----- Clifford ------

It is quite possible that the Embassy has been burried in e-mails over the last week or so. Once the news hit that the P3 packets were being put together, everyone with any applications anywhere in processing must have sent 2 or 3 e-mail messages to the Embassy. I still recommend patience. Why ask whether your P3 packet has been mailed when you really need to just wait for it to arrive in the mail 2 or 3 days later. Use e-mail as a tool to verify that your application has not been lost, or misrouted. You don't want to take too much time away from processing your applications do you? I know how hard it is to wait and wait and wonder what is happening... But, the e-mail won't speed up the applications. I have tried to pace myself, and send a note the first week of every month. ----- Clifford -----

Dave, I certainly took no offense from your posting..... Everyone has to smile once in a while...... And, everyone must remember that humor goes both directions...... And, one must learn to laugh at oneself. Anyway, I already killed off my mouse...... All I have is one of the Ball Thingies...... (ok, easy with that one). ------ Cliff -------

I think everyone has a reason why their application should be on top of the stack, and perhaps another reason why someone else should be prioritized above them. According to my research this weekend, I believe that Robhon is part of a very exclusive group. I would estimate that there are only about 100 Spousal Visas with Minor Children (K3/K4) that are issued in China each year. If only half of them are pending... That would make about 50 or so that are still in the system, and perhaps less than 25 that are still waiting for the P3. It would hardly have any impact on the whole system to track down those 25 to 50 applications and push them through to get visas immediately. Of course, I would be hurt if they put the simple K1 visas, no children onto the bottom of the pile and left them there. ----- Clifford -----

On a continuation sheet. Whew,........ You almost gave me a heart attack..... Just as I was cooking up som juicy Hamburger too I see it now. Yep, I had managed to type it in Cyrillic and convert it into a GIF/JPG to embed it into the PDF file. All is ok.... ----- Clifford -----

Whoa, Wait a second. That makes LOTS of sense. In fact, if I could redesign the forms, I would insist on it. But, I can only remember seeing where it asked for the applicant's name in the native alphabet, and not the address. I ceratainly didn't include her address in Cyrillic...... Of course, my application is stuck in "Administrative Processing". Where did you put the address in Chinese? ----- Clifford -----

Something's wrong with the China K1 number at 2252 Back in 2000, I read an official report saying there was 4000+ K1 apps for the first 6 months alone. Unless they cracked down, those stats for 2002 look very suspicious to me. Eric, I am sure it depends on how the statistics are crunched. However, the statistics I reported came directly from the BCIS web page. For non-immigrant Fiancee visas and their children (K1/K2), from China 2000 - 2.127 2001 - 2,121 2002 - 2,252 Ok, There is a possibility of a difference between the number of applications, and the number of applicants that actually ENTER the USA. Perhaps they throw out 2000 applications. Or, perhaps there is a number of people that don't ever enter the USA for one reason or another. Another possibility is that BCIS is only reporting the number of outstanding visas at the end of the year, and not reporting those that have changed their status from "Non-Immigrant" to "Immigrant". Based on the November / December interview schedule that Russia has posted, they interview approximately 200 - 250 K1-K4 applications per month (perhaps including other types of visa applications). That would give on the order of 2000 to 3000 interviews / year. Oops, I misread the Russian Fiancee Visas, it should be (excuse me if I edit that number). 2,155 for 2000 2,385 for 2001 1,999 for 2002 These numbers are in line with the number of interviews that they have scheduled for November / December. ----- Clifford ------

RobertS, Why do you think they process all K1/K2/K3/K4 visa applications in a single Consulate in China? But they process other applications at ALL of the offices. Is it because of the stupendous numbers of K1-K4 applications that they only have the capacity at GZ? No, the answer is that the number of K1-K4 visa applications are so few that it doesn't make any sense to process them in more than one location. That aside, they likely put in more effort on the K1-K4 visa applications than some of the others, and they likely have a dedicated K1-K4 team that isn't the same team that does visitor's visas. Actually, I would wonder what percentage of the effort is put into processing this 0.1% (or so) of the visa applications? ----- Clifford -----

RobertS, They seem to lump K1/K2 and K3/K4 for the itemized by country statistics. 2002 Statistics: For China: 705,596 Non-Immigrant Visas issued including: ------------------------------------------------------------ 218,691 Visitors for Business 334,947 Visitors for "Pleasure" 68,722 Students 6,034 Spouses and children of students 18,544 Temporary Workers 5,945 Spouses of Temporary Workers 2,252 Fiancées of American Citizens and Their Children (K1,K2) 500 * K2 visas included in above (my estimate from global statistics). 437 Spouses and Children of U.S. Citizens, immigrant Visa pending (K3,K4) 100 * K4 visas included in above (my estimate from global statistics). 726 Spouses of Legal Permanent Residents (V1) 258 Children of Legal Permanent Residents (V2) 296 Dependent Children of spouse or accompanying Children (V3) * For an estimate of K1/K2 visas and K3/K4 visas, globally it is ranking about 4:1. Thus, I would assume the above numbers include about 500 K2 visas and 100 K1 visas. Yes, I am sure it is a daunting task to deal with the number of visas of all types. However, the K1,K2,K3, & K4 visas combined do not even come close to 1% of all Non-Immigrant visas issued in China. And, if you consider the percentage of K1-K4 visas that are rejected, compared to the number of Tourist Visa Applications that are rejected, I would assume that the number of K1-K4 interviews rank somewhere around 0.1% of total interviews, perhaps even less. They don't even make up a significant fraction of the "temporary workers"….. Anybody hear of a rising unemployment rate and recession in the USA, and still we bring in more "temporary workers" than spouses of US Citizens? Hmmm, I wonder, Of the 18,000 temporary workers that are able to bring over 6,000 spouses….. How many of them will actually stay in the USA? Of the ones that don't bring over their spouses, how many are later applying for the V1, V2, and V3 visas? ------ Clifford ------

blsqueaky, If you filed your application in Vermont, your notice should be coming any time. If you filed in Nebraska, don't expect anything before the new year. While you are away, periodically check the status of your visa application online at the BCIS website. You should be able to find the status quicker than checking the stuff from the post-office which is generally delayed an additional week. If you see a note asking for more info, have someone check your home mail (the note on the web page is not very specific about the additional info required). I am sure there are provisions for amending your application, but at this point, I wouldn't worry about a marriage that was terminated 20 years ago...... You can let us know how thoroughly they research our cases!!!! It should show up, at least in your IRS records???? But, if they have access to the tax records, then why would they ask for them later? ----- Clifford ------

Ok, Assuming the number of K1/K3 visas for 2002 are representative for those in 2003, then in China: They have 500 K3 visas / year. Assuming a 6 month backlog, then they would have about 250 pending K3 visas.... If they could schedule 50 interviews a day..... THEY COULD FINISH ALL 250 K3 VISA APPLICATIONS WITHIN A WEEK!!!!! (P3 & P4 & Interview). (just some food for thought.... This may not be representative of the reality of the processing occurring in a US Governement Office). ----- Clifford -----

Here are a few statistics from the BCIS pages: http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/s...tics/Immigs.htm (Immigrants) http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/s...ics/Nonimms.htm (Non Immigrants and K1/K3 Visas) 2002 Statistics below: Here is the overall statistics for Non-Immigrant K1/K3 Visas…. This is us…. I think…. I don't know if they how they categorize the changing visa statuses 27,000 Fiancées of US Citizens (K1) 4,257 Children of Fiancées of US Citizens (K2) 4,575 Spouses of US Citizens with petition for Immigrant Visa (K3) 1,158 Children of US Citizens with petition for Immigrant Visa Pending (K4) 18,169 Spouses of Legal Permanent Residents with petitions for immigrant Visa Pending (V1) 19,642 Children of Legal Permanent Residents with petitions for immigrant Visa Pending (V2) 17,294 Dependent children of spouse or children who are accompanying or following to with principal beneficiary (V3) Ok, Looking further Non-immigrant K1/K3 visas: (including minor children) ------------------------------- K1. . . . . . .K3 2,252 . . . 437. . .from China 1,999 . . . 100. . .from Russia 1,790 . . . 38 . . . from Ukraine 1,058 . . . 86 . . . from England (UK) 1,213 . . . 178. . . from Canada 1,506 . . . 789.. . from Mexico 1,108 . . . 139. . . from Colombia 2,252 . . .34. . . . from Cambodia 1,009 . . . .618. . . from India 3,805 . . . 677. . . from Philippines 3,974 . . . 225. . . from Vietnam If you see the numbers below, you will realize that the K1/K3 visas are just a drop in the bucket..... Hardly enough to even show up on anybody's radar. However, I do see a significant difference between the numbers reported as K1/K3 and those reported as "family sponsored". I am not sure what accounts for this disparity. Perhaps the "family sponsored" include the K1/K3, as well as students or others that change visa stauses. The scary thought.... More immigrants are coming in as relatives of perminant residents (V1-V3) than relatives of US Citizens (K1-K4). 1 million immigrants to the USA. 674,000 of above were "Family Sponsored" 295,000 were spouses ………. I don't know how there are 295,000 here, but only 30K with K1/K3 visas? 97,000 were children Of the million immigrants: 219,000 from Mexico 71,000 from India 61,000 from China #3 51,000 from the Philippines 21,000 from Ukraine #10 21,000 from Korea 20,800 from Russia #12 19,519 from Canada #14 16,181 from England (UK) #17 323,000 from "Other" (not top 20) Sorry, I didn't see a breakdown of types of immigrants per country. Russia doesn't even fall in the top 10, unless you add Russia and Ukraine together, and perhaps other of the former Soviet republics. Note, Canada and England (UK) are also on the top 20 list. Yet, they don't receive the same treatment as immigrants from Russia and China (at least once the application leaves the USA). They can even visit here WITHOUT a visa. I presume for a canadian fiancee, she could submit the K1, K3 application, then come across the boarder with just a drivers license and wait for the rest of the processing. The US has a "Visa Waiver" program for certain countries including most of Europe, Japan, Singapore, and Argentina. Citizens of these countries do not have the same formal visitor's visa application process. The USA admitted 13 Billion (13,230,001) visitors under this program without the formal visa application process. (I didn't see Canada on this list, perhaps it is treated in another category). Oh, There were 195,000 people admitted under the H-1B temporary workers admitted. The number 1 occupation that they were admitted for was Computer & IT fields (50,000)…. And, I have heard that the High Tech Industries (Computers and etc) are going through a huge slump???? That is one of the things that has stranded me 2000 miles away from home. And, of course, their median pay is higher than mine too???? Ok, Here is another stat of non-immigrants admitted. 27,000,000 non-immigrants admitted (overall). 10,000,000 from Europe (overall) 114,000 from Russia. 28,000 from Ukraine 7,000,000 from Asia 705,000 from China 3,651,000 from Japan. 804,000 from Korea (didn't separate N vs S) 12,000 from Iran 2,000 from Iraq 316,000 from Israel 22,000 from Saudi Arabia 21,000 from Lebanon 24,000 from Cuba Whoa, If my calculations are right (from the Russian Embassy page), they do approximately 200-250 K1, K2, K3 interviews a month...... This is slightly higher than the 1300 K1/K3 visas given last year, but still on the same order. THERE ARE AS MANY NON-IMMIGRANTS COMING FROM IRAQ (WHICH WE WERE AT WAR WITH in 2003, OR HEADING TO WAR WITH IN 2002), AS THE NUMBER OF FIANCEES COMING OVER FROM RUSSIA. Enjoy, ----- Clifford -----

blsqueaky, I assume that you listed everything on your application..... The INS can be somewhat picky about that. I am not sure what to do if it isn't on the application. There are so many record searches that we don't know about, it is possible the relationship will show up somewhere. I presume you should start dredging up some info on the marriages and divorces. Sorry I don't have a lot of details on divorces as I ignored that section. However, I think I may be in a minority here. I have been surprised why the INS is so concerned about previous marriages and divorces. Of course, polygamy is strictly forbidden, and they would probably want to know how many foreign women have been sponsored, but I wonder if they need additional info. ----- Clifford -----

Thanks for the suggestions: Ok, it would be illegal for me to send my love a cell phone, but she can go down to the corner store and buy one??? And the watch I gave her a year ago, I guess it was ok to give her because she is Russian, but if she was Chinese it would be contraband? Actually, a watch can be a most cherished gift. Bicycles? Ok, who thinks this stuff up? Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will give her some suggestions of what to purchase, and send her some money. I will also try to get something small in the mail. ------ Clifford -----

ahhming888 Actually, I think you can take your time on the birth certificates. I sent in a copy of my Fiancee's passport with the I-129F, but I believe that it only asked for a copy of my passport. Find form OF-169 (there are copies from other countries on the net, but I believe they are all about the same). This discusses birth certificates for your Fiancee which she will have to take to the interview in about a year. Form OF-169, Requirements to be presented at the interview: . . . . 2. BIRTH CERTIFICATES: One certified copy of the birth certificate of . . . . each person named in the application is required. Birth records must . . . . be presented for all unmarried childern under age 21, even if they do . . . . not wish to immigrate at this time. (If children are deceased, so state . . . . giving year of death.) The certificate must state the date and place of . . . . birth and the name of both parents. The certificate must also indicate . . . . that it is an extract from official records. If you, or any children were . . . . adopted, you must submit a certified copy of the final adoption . . . . decree. Photostatic copies are accepted provided the original is . . . . offered for inspection by the consular officer. There is no mention of a translated copy, although it may not be a bad idea. You must have an original / notarized copy, but the copy that is given to the INS may be a photo copy of it. I am not quite sure where these instructions came from. Perhaps China has modified them slightly due to language differences. But, you do have a year or so to come up with the birth certificiate for your fiancee. Of course, you will need to send either your birth certificate, or a copy of your passport. ----- Clifford ------

Yes, the INS is very specific about photos: 3/4 Frontal View showing the right ear, and the face being 1" high. (I think). I am pretty sure they also required a white background. All of this is described in the Instructions for the I-129F. Read those carefully. I am bringing up one of the previous discussions of the initial packet back up to the top for your viewing. ----- Clifford -----

No, I didn't come up with those quotes.... They came from the Official Congressional Record..... It does talk about some research such as electronic application feasibility studies and other process improvement steps that should have been completed by now.... Perhaps they should have been implemented rather than studied. ----- Clifford -----