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Robhon, NO MORE BABY PICTURES.......TOO DEPRESSING!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, best wishes to you and your family as well as speedy end to all of this folly!!!!! Have a wonderful trip. After you schedule your tickets, perhaps it would be worth it to try one last "Last-Ditch" effort to get someone at the Embassy to listen to you about your situation. Perhaps call the Embassy and try to get someone higher than a secretary. ------ Clifford -----

Oh, Sorry blsqueaky, I didn't realize that you had been with the Candle for longer than me. Of course, in a sense, we are all "newbies" as this is the first time we are going through this MESS!!! ------ CK ------

Chinese_Lover, Best of luck to you. Perhaps your friend who has the business will help you get a "real" higher paying job, and everything will start looking better for you. I am still waiting on the Moscow Embassy which seems to have it's own schedule. However, I believe the packet 4 and interview usually follows the Packet 3 within 2-4 months. Assuming all goes well, you may have the interview in early 2004. Thus, your 2003 income will be very important. Hopefully both you and your finacee/wife will be working in 5 years and some of the hardships now will be ending by that time. But, it may be difficult for both of you to adjust in the near future. I believe that international students can get student loans, so school should be ok, but be careful of getting too far into debt, too quickly. Best of Luck, Clifford

Mark, Good Luck with the Visa application. It can be a very frustrating process. Some "breeze through", others don't. I am heartened to hear that the processing time sounds like it is shortening. However, your application has already been with BCIS for over 3 months so I doubt the 60-90 day estimate is real. Your application will go through a number of stages: I am sure someone will jump in and correct me somewhere, but here is the approximate processing stages that your application will go through. BCIS Nebraska Service Center has been taking about 6 months to process the applications in the past. BCIS is the only office that puts status info onto the WWW. Also note that each BCIS office has different turn-around times. It takes 2 weeks to 2 months in Vermont (sorry, my app went through Nebraska too). They will forward the application to the National Visa Center in New Hampshire. It can take from about 1 1/2 months to nearly 4 months of processing at NVC. It will then get forwarded to China. It takes a couple of days to get from the USA to China. Sometimes the applications go through Customs immediately. Other times it takes a month or so to clear customs. Finally it will reach the Embassy in China. Here, the applications have been sitting for 2-4 months before a "Packet 3" is sent to the Finacee. The Packet 3 is basically an instruction packet describing the information you will need to gather for the interview. After you return the Packet 3 to the Embassy, you wait for a Packet 4 (invitation for interview) and an interview which will take another 2 -4 months. Assuming all goes well, you will receive the visa the day after the interview. Ok, so your approximate timeline will be: BCIS - 6 months NVC - 1.5 to 4 months Shipment - 1 week to 1 month P3 - 2 - 4 months P4 - 2 - 4 months Thus, if you are lucky the total processing time will be just under a year. If you are not lucky, it could take a year and a half or so. When all of the cards fell into place, there have been rumors of people getting the interview scheduled within 7 months or so, but as far as I can tell, that is VERY RARE. Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience, Patience...... I doubt anybody on the Candle really agrees with the system, but we are all learning to live with it in our own way. The only thing you can really do is try to keep track of where your application is. My experience is that most offices will give very short explanations of what is happening to your application at the time. BCIS will just read what is already on the web page. NVC will explain that it can take an undetermined time for them to get the application back from multiple agencies. The Embassy (at least Moscow) will confirm that the packet has arrived, but then just tell me that it "in processing". Best of Luck, Clifford

Thank you all for your heartfelt letters. I do remember reading somewhere about a year ago that the USA had stopped issuing visas, but perhaps I didn't realize the full impact of the news….. Actually, I hadn't really believed that they had cut of the visas "cold-turkey". It is hard to imagine the pain that one would feel from believing that the process was over, only to discover another wait for an indeterminate amount of time, with the only thing known for sure is that nobody was being issued visas. Perhaps we are still seeing a tremendous fallout from the backlog of applications. I can't imagine an embassy trying to clean up a mess of stopping doing interviews for 6 months when their regular load of paperwork and interviews is enough to bury them. The not having any timeline is what is still hurting many of us. I get the impression that the timing has shifted somewhat on the processing of the visa applications. Thus, the applications seem to take longer to process in the USA than they have in the past. 8 months just to leave the USA might be considered a "quick" application. Thus, it is very difficult to finish the paperwork in Russia/China before a year passes, and perhaps somewhat over a year. I am now certain that I will be waiting well over a year BEFORE our interview date. I keep thinking that it has to be coming soon, but as the months creep by….. Winter becomes spring, and patiently we wait….. Birthdays pass, and patiently we wait…. Spring becomes summer, and the patience begins to wear thin, but we wait…… Summer becomes fall all semblance of patience is gone, but we wait….. Fall becomes winter, and we wait…… As Winter will break and spring will soon come, I am dreading repeating the waiting process. Why? It certainly doesn't have anything to do with terrorism or violence....... I am 100% certain that my Fiancee isn't a terrorist. ----- Clifford ------

Chinese_Lover, I can't imagine your tremendous frustration with the system. It sounds like you have been having difficulties and have been working hard to overcome them. No matter what you do, you will have a very difficult path in front of you. As carhil mentioned, I have seen many low income families be torn apart by the lack of finances. Little difficulties suddenly become HUGE obsticles. I have met familes that a simple flat tire seemed to be an insurmountable obsticle. Buying a beer at a bar would one evening would make the next rent payment come up short. And steak vs Top Ramen for dinner can make an endless argument. But, it also sounds like you have been making plans to improve your situation. Rather than always looking toward changes in the future, you need to start making the changes NOW. Do something to boost your income NOW. Start studying NOW. Then, when the time comes for your Fiancee to come here, you will be ready for her. It is unclear where your are in the application process. If you applied a year ago and have the interview coming up, work to provide sufficient evidence about your ability to support your fiancee and hope for the best. As I understand it from a previous post, if the interviewer doesn't think you have sufficient financial resources, your application will be put on hold, but not thrown out. If you haven't applied yet, send in your application, and while you are waiting, work on making your income better. Both of you will be happier. If you move to China, you will have additional difficulties bringing your fiancee back to the USA because it will be difficult for you to ever earn more than the US Poverty level while living in the country. Best Wishes, Clifford

Oh, I think dual booting sounds a bit drastic. The newer versions of WinDoZe (NT, 2000, ME?, XP Home & XP Pro) allow you to configure multiple user logins, each with quite different login environments (I am not sure about WinDoZe ME, I haven't used it much). WinDoZe XP also has the ability to make a dual boot. (Disclaimer, I haven't tried this, but in theory, it should be quite straight forward). Partition your HDD into 2 partitions (you can do this while installing WinDoZe XP). Install WinDoZe into the first partition. Re-install into the second partition. I believe you can re-install WinDoZe by rebooting from your install disk, or you could use a program like Norton Ghost to clone an install. Right Click on "My Computer", select "Properties", Advanced, and select the Startup and Recovery Options. Choose "Edit Startup Options" if necessary to force the system to come up with the window to select Operating Systems. A commercial product named "Partition Magic" by PowerQuest can be used to aid repartitioning a drive that is already partitioned, and you want to save the current data while creating a new partition for the new data. You should also be able to install 2 hard drives in the computer. ---------------------- Be careful of installing a drive that was configured on one machine on a new machine. WinDoZe is only partially "Plug and Play". You can easily confuse it. This may only work if the types of computers are very similar. If you have a different brand of MotherBoard, don't try swapping drives and expecting it to work. There is a WinDoZe 2000 / XP Pro (don't know about other versions) command called SysPrep that can be used to force WinDoZe to act like you are reinstalling it (to allow somewhat different hardware). You can download it from Microsoft's website. There is some kind of a grace period with WinDoZe and XP. It will only allow you to use SysPrep a couple of times unless you check the "Don't reset grace period for Activation". However, you may not want to do that for the first run of the utility (Read Microsoft's Notes on their web page, article: 308554. Thus, use it if you have a "Factory Installed Operating System, but don't use it for the first time if you have installed the Operating System from CD. I think I also read somewhere, you can may have to use a command-line-argument with SysPrep to force it to detect all PNP devices (and thus have a prayer to get it to work on very different computers). Sysprep -pnp or Sysprep -pnp -activated to keep it from resetting the grace period and force it to look for PNP devices. Even if you put 2 hard drives into the computer, you probably will still want to use the WinDoZe startup options to create a boot file for each drive (instead of doing like I do, manually plugging in and unplugging the drives)!!!!! HAVE FUN, AND REMEMBER THAT COMPUTERS ARE OUR FRIENDS..... ----- Clifford -----

I thought the BCIS office was new????? In January I filed my application at the INS office (Immigration and Naturalization Services). Sometime around March, this office disappeared and was replaced by BCIS (Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services). Now I just tried to log in (after Nov 1), and discovered it now had a new name: USCIS (US Citizenship and Immigration Services). Are these "Fly By Night" offices?????? Perhaps that is the reason everything is taking so long. Consider the resources expended in thinking up a new name every few months..... Then changing all of the letterhead............ Then rebuilding the websites....... Then informing everyone of the change.......... I am sure there wouldn't be any time left to actually read a few applications. ------ Clifford ------

Hello blsqueaky, I am a bit puzzled on where your application is at: Has it been approved by BCIS? If you try to call BCIS, they will just read to you what is already posted on their web page. They won't give you any valuable information. Hmmm, BCIS has changed their address for the second time this year.... Perhaps USCIS is now better than BCIS (which was, of course, better than INS)!!!!! http://ucis.gov Find the link for "Case Status Online" in the right-hand column. If the case has cleared BCIS (USCIS), and has made it to the NVC, you can call the NVC. Their info will be short. Don't call / e-mail China until at least a month after you know your case has left the USA. ----- Clifford ------

Well, the voice of reason strikes again. Somehow I think Don must search for my postings to correct any of my misconceptions!!!! Fortunately, Don is only 3/4 correct. Here is what the instructions for Form 864 says: . . . . Immigration and Consular Offices will begin to use updated poverty . . . . guidelines on the first day of the second month after the date the . . . . guidelines are publisned in the Federal Register. But, yes, this is based on the date of the interview, and not on the year of the 1040 form submitted (I would think that would be comparing apples to oranges, but perhaps there is a fudge factor built in. Ok, the Form I-134 (for the Fiancee Visa application) requires 1 year of 1040 forms..... Don't fudge on E-Bay sales for this year!!!!! The form I-864 requires 3 years of 1040 forms (and I believe that you need to meet the requirement in each of the 3 years, although this isn't clear). But, I guess the I-864 comes later (after she is already in the USA), so I am not quite sure what happens if you pass the interview in Russia, but fail this later step. How can a co-sponsor truely be liable? Will the US deny unemployment/welfare benefits based on the cosponsor agreement? ------ Cliff -----

Ok, Be careful about 2002 guidelines vs 2003 guidelines. They are different by about $1000 or $2000. If you are using your 2002 1040 form, then use the 2002 guidelines...... I am surprised they didn't specify which line to use from the 1040. If 2003 looks better than 2002, you could probably use the current year, especially if your interview isn't until December/January, or later. I assume that Overtime & Second jobs count. If you are within a few hundred dollars...... Try to find some additional income. Are you a student? Can you make a reasonable argument that your income will be increasing in the next few years? Remember, the goal of the requirement is not to make it more difficult to bring someone in, but rather to prevent the immigrants from becoming public liabilities..... You shouldn't apply for food stamps because you have married a foreigner..... The country doesn't want both people to be unemployed in a year, and have both individuals on welfare..... Of course, in today's job market, nobody can be 100% secure. Does anybody know how thoroughly the INS looks at the application. If you are halfway through the process, put all of the documents together and make them look VERY pretty. Put your employer's letter and etc on top.... They might not even look at any tax statements..... Of course, that is a BIG risk to take after waiting so long. Perhaps the co-sponsor is the better way to go. Although, I wonder about a co-sponsor. It is not like buying a car or a house where the creditors can come after the co-applicant. I guess I am rambling again, ----- Clifford -----

AZwolfman, I thought the practice was to give the visa immediately after the interview. Occasionally I have seen reports of delays between the two. What happened? ----- Clifford -----

Review Optional Form 167 (OF-167) http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/...forms/of167.pdf The last section talks about the Affidavit of Support. To substantiate the information regarding income and resources the sponsor should attach TWO or more of the following items to the affidavit. 1. Notarized copies of his or her latest federal income tax return; 2. A statement from his or her employer showing salary and the length and permanency of employment 3. A statement from an officer of a baink regarding his or her account, the date the account was opened, and the present balance 4. Any other evidence adequate to establish financial ability to carry out his or her undertaking toward the applicant for what might be an indefinite period of time. --------- I think most people are using the federal tax return, (and usually an employer letter) but you can decide what other attachments you want to use which I assume doesn't HAVE to include either of the two. ----- Clifford ----

Ok, We have turtle Speed.... and We have Snail Speed...... Now, I am wondering what could possibly be slower than both a turtle and a snail???????? Does a Haire fit? Occasional burts of energy dispersed between LONG NAPS? ----- CK -----

Eric & Mick THE FOLLOWING ERROR(S) WERE FOUND -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, but you have posted more images than you are allowed to :( :( :( :( :( THE FOLLOWING ERROR(S) WERE FOUND -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have posted a message with more emoticons that this board allows. Please reduce the number of emoticons you've added to the message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, this is bogus...... The system will only allow me to put in 10 blue dots before giving me an error!!!!! And, now I discovered that I can't even put in a few frowns in the message?????????????? I was going to give Eric and Mick their 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 blue dots that they deserved!!! ------- CK ----------

Oh, Now I understand..... I was wondering why Robert S was calling himself a "newbie"...... I think we need to remind Eric to get back on the ball!!!! Over the last year, he has dropped down from 9% of the total forum posts down to 8.53% of the total posts!!!! (which, of course, you can round up to 9%). Hmmm, if you aren't careful, Eric and Mick will have so many blue dots that it will fill up the whole page.... What about trading in 1000 posts for a GOLD DOT!!!!!! ------ Clifford -----

And if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times ... don't exaggerate! I mean, 15 to 20 boxes of just petitions for each shipment that leaves NVC for GZ. From the sampling I've directly looked at myself, the average seems to be something under 4 or 5 boxes each shipment with maybe 1 or 2 actually containing documents! This is absolute BS folks. Totally unrealistic. Don't buy it for a second. Well, 100, or 1000 applications per shipment, it is still a load on the system. I wonder how much double data entry there is? Has all of the information been already entered into the computer in the USA? I would certainly be willing to spend a half hour doing an electronic form application if that meant that it would save 120 days to do the data entry!!!!!! What did I hear somewhere? That there were around 20,000 Visa applications in process...... Divide that by about a year, and it makes 55 application EVERY DAY. I am not sure if that was just for China, but I think it may have been. Assuming they get deliveries every 2 weeks or so, that means 800 applications per shipment. If the shipments get delayed for a month, it could be enough to bury any office..... Of course, that isn't a good excuse why they can't ship the applications on a daily basis (heck, I would be willing to add the $30 for an overnight shipment of my application alone, as soon as it was ready). Just for comparison, Russia has started posting their interview schedule. They have between 10 and 30 interviews scheduled nearly every week day (although they do seem to skip a few days). http://www.usembassy.ru/consular/wwwhcisk.html (oh, I checked my MOS number, I was off by a single digit.... ) If anybody can discern a pattern in the MOS numbers, let me know. The only thing that I can tell about the numbers is that the first 4 digits appear to be a YEAR.... What a scary thought????????? I would assume this is the year that the NVC assigned the application a number, which could be significantly later than the application was submitted. If I am right about the year being part of the number, then we have the following for the interviews scheduled over the next 2 months: 10 - 1996 applications 2 - 1997 applications 1 - 1998 application 3 - 1999 applications 4 - 2000 applications 16 - 2001 applications 82 - 2002 applications 324 - 2003 applications ------------------------------------ Total: 444 applications (average of 7 1/2 applications EVERY DAY including Sundays). I would imagine that some of the older "crustier" applications are resubmittals...... But, if I am right..... Then, 73 % of the applications are less than 1 year old. 18 % of the applications are between 1 and 2 years old. 8 % of the applications are OVER 2 years old. 2 % (included above) of the applications are 7 years old Oh, and 170 applications (half of the 2003 applications) have a higher MOS nuber than mine (oh, I meant that there are 170 applications with larger numbers than mine that ALREADY HAVE INTERVIEWS SCHEDULED, I AM STILL WAITING ) ------ Clifford ------

Joe, I believe that the NVC confirmation has been discussed previously. Do you see any "vital" information on yours that others of us would have missed? The NVC has given me the MOS# (for Moscow) for my application over the phone (via my parents while I was in Russia). I can only hope that I have the correct number. I have also confirmed the arrival of the packet in Russia (via e-mail). I presume that is enough. My vote is to leave the poor receptionists alone.... They have several THOUSAND other applications to deal with. ----- Clifford -----

Joe, I think it generally takes at least 2 months for the interview to be scheduled. If you think you will have everything by then, I see no reason to delay the returning of your P3 packet. I couldn't imagine that anybody would actually look at the dates on everything. My vote is to move on with the next step ASAP.... you will have plenty of time to wait for the INS to finish their stuff. ----- CK ----

Oh My..... Oh, I looked up on the website.... RMB830.00 I assume that is different than $830. By the way, today there were quite a few broken links on the Guangzhou website: Whenever the website takes you to a link like: http://guangzhou.usconsulate.gov/guangzhou/iv or http://guangzhou.usconsulate.gov/guangzhou/cons Take out the second "guangzhou" Thus, the correct links are: http://guangzhou.usconsulate.gov/cons and http://guangzhou.usconsulate.gov/iv ------ Clifford ------

Jesse, All you have to do is convince the INS that you can support your Fiancée at above 125% of the Federal Poverty Level. http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/formsf...iles/I-864p.pdf Add yourself, + your Fiancée + any other dependents to determine the level. Do you have your own income? Past taxes that indicate an income above the 125% Poverty Level? Perhaps your Grandfather can write a letter similar to an employers letter, guaranteeing to give you the necessary income (rather than basing it on his own income). If he has is own business, he can use the business name with "official letterhead" for the letter. If you don’t have copies of your 1040 forms, you may be able to get electronic copies from the IRS. Review Form: OF-167 for the Affidavit of Support Info. ------- Clifford -------

Rob, Sometimes I wonder if the offices at each stage base their processing on the I129/I130 Receipt Time, rather than the time they received the packet. Yours breezed through BCIS (2 months)...... Mine took over 6 months. It is as if NVC let your application sit an extra 3 months just to put you back on track for a year long processing time Note, ours finished NVC at almost the same relative time. Good luck, and I hope your P3 will be following shortly after all of the rumors that I am hearing..... ------ Clifford ------- P.S. I still recommend no more than every other week calls...perhaps every 3rd week....give them a bit of a break, you will know soon enough if something got misplaced. Of course, it would be nice if all of the offices posted regular updates online (more than the estimated processing times that BCIS posts).

Ok, You can add me to the "PITS" too. Of course, my application is stuck in Moscow, and not in China I have heard rumors that Moscow may combine the P3/P4 into a single packet so perhaps our timelines will diverge soon. I HOPE!!!! In a couple days I will be hitting the 10 month point (sorry, I didn't calculate that in weeks). The process was started the first week of January, and the "official Receipt Notice" is dated 1/6/2003 which is what I use for my starting point. Went through Nebraska Service Center..... A few phone calls to the NVC, but no official letter. E-mail has confirmed arrival of the packet in Moscow (date not specified). ------ Clifford -------

Dave, The problem is that with the current system, it is MUCH easier to fake. Just write up a second set of tax forms. Fake a few W2 forms (what company do you want to work for?), and add everything to your packet. Make second generation Xerox copies of everything to make it look like you had copied the copies of the files you sent to the IRS. Apparently the INS never asks for a copy of the tax forms for their own records so they wouldn't have any opportunity to verify the authenticity of the forms. As I understand it, they may ask to view the forms during the interview, but they don't add them to the official immigration files. If records were retrieved from the IRS directly, it would be nearly impossible to fake (without over reporting one's tax liability which is rarely done). (Of course, most people doing international dating and marriage have already invested around $10K in the relationship, and I find it unlikely that they would have any problems meeting the 125% of the poverty level. I would assume those checks are primarily for Latin American marriages, illegal alien marriages, and perhaps student marriages, but the checks have to be applied to everyone.) ------ Clifford -----

Since the Federal Government already has the tax forms, why don't they just put in a little note in the "fine print" down near the signatures on one of the forms, "I authorize the use of information supplied to the IRS on my Federal Tax Forms to determine eligibility status". Also state that additional information may be supplied to supplement the decision if necessary. Thus, there would be no question about the authenticity or completeness of the records. A tax analysis could be done electronically. Hit one button, and 3 seconds later it comes back with an answer whether person is at 125% of the poverty level (counting all dependents and other exclusions filed). Of course, with a little forethought one could fudge the income tax records sent to the IRS to make it look like one should PAY MORE TAXES than would otherwise be necessary ----- Clifford -----