keelec

Thank you. It sounds like there isn't much change (from what I understand) with the same P3/P4 system, with a different name. However, read this about speed & Promptness At least this outlines the expectations of the Consulates. Can we get a copy of the reports being sent to the INS which are supposed to outline the reasons for all of the delays in processing? ----- Clifford ------

Mick, Don't blame it on me, finding this old thread. JerryL dug it up. I was going to post my reply into a new thread, and accidentally posted it into the reply of this one. Yes, I have a monitor around here somewhere with a short somewhere in the cable. I just taped the wire to the side of the computer and the problem all but disappeared. Anyway, I am not impressed with your descriptions of their Information Technology in use. ------ Clifford -----

What we have here is an user interface problem. Mick: Take care of your pain. Surely they were jesting if they even suggested that they might be using an "Excel Based Data Processing System" I am sorry, but Excel doesn't even remotely resemble a data processing system. Were they regularly sending data back and forth between offices on floppy disks? Or even CDs? If half of this is true, the problems at GZ are far worse that I could have imagined. What is so wrong with Excel? 1) It is very much tied to a SINGLE USER SYSTEM. Only ONE person can update any file at a time. 2) Writing any kind of "useful" reports are inherently difficult 3) Consistency checking of data is almost non-existent 4) It is difficult to print out just the pertinent data MS Access would be the MINIMAL system that an office like GZ should be using, and they probably should be using some kind of SQL system (or the same Oracle system that they admit other offices they interface with use). What does a Database give that Excel doesn't? Any half decent Database is inherently multi-user. More than one person can update records at a time as long as they aren't updating the exact same record. I.E. They can have 10 people reading the incoming mail and doing the data entry without splitting and merging files. Or, multiple people could do different things with the same files. A single record can be dealt with at a time. Thus, it is less likely that data entry would skip a line and be done on the wrong person. It can be linked so that remote offices can share the same data (thus allowing case loads to be shared between branch offices). It is trivial to write reports to search for things like "no response from P3", or Over 30 days and Over 60 days from start of process. One can write an algorithm to always bring the cases that need to be processed up to the top of the list. For example, bring those cases that have been at GZ longest AND have the namecheck complete. Flag those cases that have had namechecks sent out over 3 weeks earlier with no response. FORCE UNIQUE ENTRIES SO NO DUPLICATES ARE ENTERED. The problem with duplicates is that one could easily generate two half-files rather than a single whole one. If multiple sheets (tables) are used, make sure there is data consistency between the tables. Allow for certain types of information to grow while other types are fixed. For example, they could tie a "contacted GZ" table with the main table so that one could associate each person's file with the personal contacts made to that individual (every daily e-mail that some people send). If a person has 2 different GZ numbers, they would be kept together (along with any related records such as those for children). Any search for one would bring them all up. THE DATABASE CAN BE CONFIGURED TO KEEP CHANGE HISTORY, AS WELL AS WHO MADE THE CHANGES. ------------------- Anyway, if they are actually doing significant data tracking in Excel…… Well, God Help Us!!!!!!!

Does it make a difference whether an "American" or a "Chinese" person wrote the address? My attempts to print in Cyrillic certainly look a bit crude, to say the least. I can't imagine the confusion if I tried to copy the Chinese characters. It is even supposed to be important which direction each line was made. -------- Actually, I have wondered why the US didn't require 3 self-addressed Legal-Sized envelopes to be added to every packet. (1 for P3, 1 for P4, and one extra). Or, perhaps put in a "scannable" address box somewhere in the application that could be scanned and printed on envelopes. Then, if the letter didn't arrive where it was supposed to, at least they could point fingers at the person that wrote the application. ------ Clifford ------

Jerry, Oh, sorry, I was one of those Math-Computer Science (Multiple Majors) in College Of course, I've forgotten most of that by now Obviously it is difficult to get a lot of data from your system until more information gets posted. In many cases, bar charts would work well. A couple of things that might be "interesting" to display. 1) Casual observations indicated that BCIS wait time was independent from country of origin. You have lots of BCIS data. Post a bar graph for wait times for visa processing based on processing location. Nebraska, Texas, Vermont, etc. You might also be able to do sub-graphs for each processing office which would be average processing time based on office and "quarter" start-time (oct-dec 2002, jan-mar 2003, etc). Most people have posted either a mailing date or a receipt date. I would use the earliest of the two as a start date. Actually, one of the issues you will run into is incomplete data (for whatever reason). 2) See if something comes up with NVC. At least you could get average wait times based on month of start time. Perhaps there would be some country by country differences too. 3) A second type of graph that would be VERY interesting would be time from start date to (interview or Visa issue) for different countries. Since the processing in the USA is generally indpendent of the country, I would also do a check for NVC finish date to (interview or Visa issue). This would also be an interesting stat to monitor over time. Is the embassy getting better or worse with time. I believe that South Africa may hold the record for the processing speed, especially if you look at the Left NVC until Received Visa (6 days!!!) Oh, I would have to dig up my old statistics Student-T, Chi-Square, etc.... I wish I could remember what those all meant????? Anyway, the variance or standard deviation coupled with a small sample size in many of the sample sets may be so high that only a few of the numbers would actually reach any reasonable degree of statistical significance. ------------- One final Note, A list of abbreviations in your system would be very handy, for example, VSC, NSC, TSC, CSC, MSC, K1, K3, P3, P4. NOA1, NOA2, 129FRFE, etc. ----- Clifford ------

http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html http://travel.state.gov/china.html http://travel.state.gov/saudi.html I thought you would be interested in some quotes from the "Offical US Travel Advisories". I put this under the "General Visa Discussion" as I would assume this relates to the reason for increased security checks since 9/11 (along with some checks in relation to possible espionage) First: China: SAFETY AND SECURITY: Americans visiting or residing in China are advised to take the normal safety precautions travelers take when in a foreign country. Specifically, travelers should remain aware of their surroundings and of events that are happening around them. Travelers should respect local police requirements to temporarily avoid travel in some areas. In light of the greatly increased numbers of older Americans traveling to China, U.S. tour operators should check that local guides are familiar with medical facilities and emergency medical evacuation procedures. .... Terrorism is rare in China, although a small number of bombings and incidents of unrest have occurred in Beijing and in other areas inhabited primarily by ethnic minorities. Recent bombings have largely been the result of commercial disputes between Chinese. There is no indication that acts of public violence have been directed against foreigners. CRIME: Overall, China is a safe country, with a low but increasing crime rate. Pickpockets target tourists at sightseeing destinations, open-air markets and in stores, often with the complicity of low-paid security guards. Violence against foreigners occurs, but it is rare. The number of violent incidents against Americans is very low on a worldwide basis (there were eleven reported violent attacks on American citizens between 2000 and 2002), but such incidents do occur. Robberies, sometimes at gunpoint, have occurred in western China, and there have been some reports of robberies and assaults along remote mountain highways near China's border with Nepal. Travelers are sometimes asked by locals to exchange money at a preferential rate. It is illegal to exchange dollars for RMB except at banks, hotels and official exchange offices. Due to the large volume of counterfeit currency in China, unofficial exchanges usually result in travelers losing their money and possibly left to face charges of breaking foreign exchange laws. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Compare China to Saudi Arabia: SAFETY AND SECURITY: The U.S. Government continues to assist Saudi authorities in their investigations of the 1995 and 1996 bombings of U.S. military installations in Saudi Arabia. The U.S. Mission continues to receive reports that suggest terrorist action against U.S. interests in Saudi Arabia remains a possibility. Because of continuing security concerns, the Embassy, Consulates General, and the U.S. military elements throughout the country have reviewed their security postures and made improvements wherever possible to lessen their vulnerabilities. We strongly encourage all American citizens visiting or resident in Saudi Arabia to maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness and reduce their vulnerability. Americans should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required travel, and treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. In addition, American citizens are urged to avoid contact with any suspicious, unfamiliar objects, and to report the presence of such objects to local authorities. Vehicles should not be left unattended, if at all possible, and should be kept locked at all times. American citizens are urged to park their motor vehicles in protected areas with restricted access and to inspect the vehicles before using them, looking underneath, inside the engine compartment, and inside the trunk. The use of a flashlight for vehicle inspections at night is recommended. Suspicious activities, individuals, or vehicles should be reported to the U.S. Embassy or nearest Consulate General. License numbers of vehicles and descriptions of individuals are extremely helpful. Saudi officials continue to cooperate closely with the Embassy to ensure the safety of all Americans. October 27, 2003 This Travel Warning is being updated to alert Americans to continuing security concerns in Saudi Arabia . This Travel Warning supersedes that of August 13, 2003 . The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia . Americans are reminded of the potential for further terrorist actions against U.S. citizens abroad, including in the Persian Gulf region. The U.S. Government continues to receive indications of terrorist threats aimed at American and Western interests, including the targeting of transportation and civil aviation. There is credible information that terrorists have targeted Western aviation interests in Saudi Arabia . American citizens in Saudi Arabia should remain vigilant, particularly in public places.

Ok, Don..... You seem to have too much inside info, are you sure you don't work for the INS? Anyway, so you are saying that the "status" of the applicant is only changed with: 1) Time (for example, 2 years expires) 2) Petition for an "upgrade" in status. 3) Some crime committed Is the couple supposed to report the dissolved relationship/marriage to the INS? If they do report it, then what happens. It just doesn't make any sense. If a condition of the visa is that a marriage exists. Then, if the marriage doesn't exist, then it would seem most logical that the visa doesn't exist. ------ Clifford -----

I am sorry to hear this man's problems. If the consulate is asking for additional evidince, the presumably the door is open to present the case again at a later date. Of course, they should verify if there is a deadline they must meet. Do they communicate? How have they been communicating over the last year? Can they print out all of the e-mails that they have sent back and forth to indicate communication? Do either of them use electronic pocket-translators? Some are supposed to be good enough that you can speak one language in and it speaks the other language back. What is their plan from this point forward? Even with the best electronic devices they will eventually have to learn a common language. I would say that the husband should at least learn a few greetings in the wife's language, if not some rudimentary communication. The wife should plan on enrolling in a class too. Actually, I am surprised that she didn't enroll in a class while they were waiting for a visa. Do they have any 3-month INTENSE English language classes in China? If she could get 1st year college equivalence language, she probably could return to the consulate and have a much better chance of getting the visa, especially if the two visited each other again during that period and were able to communicate without an interpreter. ----------- When I was returning to Moscow during my last trip on an all-night train ride, I met a Russian woman who spoke very little English. And, of course, my Russian leaves a lot to be desired. We had a wonderful conversation for hours by just trading a dictionary back and forth, pointing to a single word at a time. We laughed together about a drunk Russian that came to "shake my hand"..... Hmmm, 1-word sentences.... just like being 2 yrs old again Anyway, it doesn't take much to communicate..... But, for a relationship to flourish, it needs more than a half a dozen words in common. ------ Clifford ------

Hello Everyone, We have a group of people who would like to submit a formal complaint to the Guangzhou Consulate about there delays in processing visa applications, as well as being stuck in P3 limbo, partly due to what appears to be LIFO (Last-In-First-Out) processing of applications. In order to have anything “reasonable” to approach the Consulate with other than a vocal group of individuals, we need statistics. Perhaps someone here could put together a spreadsheet of everyone’s timelines. However, I believe the Easiest way is to put your data into the website. I can download the info, sort it in Excel, and give you some idea of what boils out of the pot. Different people post slightly different information, but it should allow us to get some representative info. http://www.k1k3.com Please make sure that your records are up to date this month (November, 2003) so we can try to get accurate data from the tables. If you haven’t put any data in, it would be helpful if you could put it in. We can use couples in all stages of processing from just starting to “Happily Ever After”. And, I don’t see any reason to restrict this to “Candle” participants either. Perhaps we could forward the information to the 001 website to get some more couples to post information too.. If we can get a reasonable representative of those in process, I presume an e-mail can be sent out to everyone to make sure the information is up to date. Then we can analyze the data to see if there is anything that looks “odd” about the ordering of case processing. From the anecdotes on the Candle, it sounds fishy, but we don’t have enough data to present that. Here is what I see as of today (11/12/2003) for China: 26 entries in the table (1 with no data except for a complaint about waiting for NOA2 for 5+ months, and thus is deleted due to incompleteness). 14 entries report having left NVC, or any activity after that. (1 appears to have an incorrect I-130 approval date and is not counted, and one has a P3 listed before NOA1 and was not counted). Out of these 12 individuals listed as having cleared the NVC, 5 of them list as having received the P3 (or P4), and 4 of those list having received interview date or Visa. 4 of the 5 INDIVIDUALS reporting receiving P3/P4’s POSTING ON http://www.k1k3.com appear to have received their P3 and interviews more or less in chronological order of receipt of the packet. The last one was out of order by 10 days. Other than a little delay, there isn’t much to write about. The biggest delays are generally still at the BCIS offices here in the USA. And, the longest delay I see on the web page: Left NVC 2/15/2003, Received P3 6/20/2003 (over 4 months later) ----- Clifford ------

Interesting Dilemma, I would hope that part of the 9/11 fallout would be the ability for the USA to track whether or not a visa is valid. The woman has had a documented divorce. I presume the divorce information was filed with the INS. This should invalidate her visa. Hmmm, there was a lot of discussion about “Machine Readable Visas”….. I.E. A visa number that is embedded into the visa so that it could be tracked electronically. If this is the case, I would assume that it would be electronically invalidated as soon as the divorce papers were filed with the INS. Those members that actually have visas could indicate whether or not it appears as if the USA is actually using the Machine Readable Visas yet. WHY WOULD THE USA EVER GRANT A VISA WITHOUT A CLAUSE INDICATING THAT IT COULD BE WITHDRAWN AT ANY TIME IF MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES INDICATED THAT IT SHOULD NO LONGER BE VALID? For example, if she was here on a straight K3 visa and committed certain crimes, she would be deported and have the visa cancelled. A divorce should be no different and the visa should be cancelled. Unfortunately, the only way to be certain would be to come to the USA and hope to get in (with the risk of being put on the next plane back to China). If one called the INS to inquire whether the visa is valid, they would likely invalidate it. If my Fiancée, Irina, could get a “tourist/visitor’s” visa to the USA, I would be extremely happy. Even if she had to return to Russia in 6 months or a year for an interview, that would be ok. I am sure she would be happy to have an excuse to visit her family, and we would be able spend the next year together rather than just holding onto e-mails. If the woman had a valid visa to visit the USA, that would be a tremendous benefit, even if all of the processing had to begin again from scratch. She could be here in the USA, and just return to China after a year to have the interview as necessary. Assuming the interview went well, she could return to the USA once again with the new visa. ------------------------- Now, a second way to approach the problem is: If a person comes to the USA on a tourist visa, and returns to China as required, then it is supposed to be MUCH EASIER to get a second tourist visa for the next trip. At this point, the woman may be able to apply for a standard tourist visa. She would be able to demonstrate to the INS officials that she had willingly returned to the USA after the prior divorce. With a little luck, she might be granted a tourist visa. Or, perhaps she could start a small business and apply for a business visa, again assuring the immigration officer that while, at one time, she did come to the USA as a K3, she had returned to China once the visa was terminated. The trick would be to tell the truth, and to redirect questioning in the appropriate manner. If a second (tourist/business) visa would be granted, then it is possible that future visas would be granted without interviews. ----------------------------- One word of caution. I was advised against mixing visa types. It is possible that an application for a tourist visa while a K1/K3 visa application is pending would cause the K1/K3 visa to be cancelled.

With all due respect, I would advise against the picket outside. The Chinese authorities would swoop down on you faster than you could say "Chinese slammer". Above all, the Chinese treasure stability. I am afraid any kind of protest would be ill received. I guess it all depends on where the picket is, and how it is held. I liked what happened, perhaps spontaneously, when Mick & Owen did their meeting with the group of Fiancees/Spouses outside the embassy. No signs, but just there enough to be noticed. Also, remember, the true BOSSES are here in the USA. A 1000 man march on Washington DC would be enough to get the media attention..... Of course, it would be difficult to get that many people together at the same time, all with the same needs. ----- CK -----

Whoa..... NO CUTS..... Ok, my question was how to answer a statment....."We have to wait becasuse of limited resources". While the Students, business visas, etc all are issued for different reasons, they likely share some of the same resources for processing. As far as K1 vs K3. That wasn't what I was originally asking. Actually, I had assumed in the past that if one got married, one could just stop by the Embassy, get the visa stamp and get on the airplane together..... Like you said, it is a different level of committment. It just makes sense that the K1 visa would take a little more scrutiny. Yes, by treating them differently, it would generate more abuse of the K3 visas. Now, as I understand it, the V and K visas are essentially "Probationary Visas". (No, probabation in immigration has nothing to do with crime, but rather an assignment of a visa without all of the "normal" requirements). I am still amazed they are considerd "FAST", but they were designed to facilitate getting the loved ones in the USA quicker than would otherwise be possible. I chose to apply for a K1 visa because I felt that it would be important for my fiancee to come to the USA and see what our culture had to offer, as well as seeing what it was like to live with me. Vacations just didn't seem representative of what life would be like. Essentially that is what being engaged is about for all couples. It is a time when a couple can declare a committment for each other while still taking a little time to get to know each other better. I would have been happy with a 3-month visitor's visa after which she would return to Russia for final visa processing. Perhaps there should be another class of visa, K5/K6... This would be reserved to couples where the American counterpart has spent 1+ year living with the spouse outside of the USA before applying for the visa. These individuals seem to fall into a different class than those of us (married or not) that have only spent a few weeks with our loved ones. I would also lump married with pregnancies/children in this new category with the hope that men would not opt to get their significant others pregnant just to speed up the process. ------ Clifford ------

Joe, Being single (never married), I have nothing that will show that I am "single", other than a pile of 1040 forms that are filed as "single". Other than a 1040 form (which you will presumably supply), I can't think of any other document that I've seen that says that I am "not married". Perhaps someone else knows something else. A notrarized affidavit wouldn't give any more info than what you have already included on the I-129/I-130 forms. ----- Clifford ----

How SHOULD cases be prioritized at the INS (BCIS, NVC, GZ)? If we are going to argue that K1,K2,K3,&K4 cases be given additional resources, how should we answer why our cases deserve more attention than other cases? What about V1-V4 (Perminant Resident Aliens sponsoring Alien Fiancess & Spouses)? I belive that my research indicated that there are more V1-V4 visas issued than K1-K4 visas. . . . Tourists? . . . Temporary Workers? . . . Students? . . . Professors & Knowledge Exchange I think there are a few other "important" classifications of visas that I am missing. (of course, everyone's opinion counts) Thanks, Clifford

SeLang, Thank you, I am flattered... ... However, as many of you know, I am stuck in a different pit than the rest of you. While I would love a trip to China, I think at the moment it would carry more weight for someone who's application is more directly connected to GZ to represent us there. However, I would like to continue working with the group here in the USA (or, perhaps, be your lone representative to Russia). I am trying to learn as much as I can about the Visa process so that I might be able to become involved with streamlining the overall process starting here in the USA, and perhaps later expanding to other countries. My goal would be to see the entire process, start to finish be reduced to 3-6 months. To do so, every step would be affected in some manner. Perhaps the only exception to a 3-6 month rule would be for very few select cases, and individuals from those countries that the USA is currently involved in hostilities with, or otherwise deems to be an EXTREME risk to national security (former East Block countries don't count without some other reason). Unfortunately, I am also not quite sure how and where to start with approaching improving "THE SYSTEM". ----- Clifford ------ P.S. It was Donahso that reminded me that I was looking up the wrong birds (which I was already figuring out when I posted my last discussion topic).

no no.. it went like this.... " 2 weeks or mooooore " Well, "2 weeks (or more)" is better than BCIS that puts everything off for somewhere between 6 months and a year. I was quite upset at the Nebraska office that reviewed my application after 5 1/2 months, asked for a correction, then when I sent in the correction, they relisted listed my case as finishing between 150 and 180 days. I was about 3 days away from driving to their office and knocking on their door. Fortunately it only took then one more month after the resubmisison to finish up and I averted a trip across 3 states. ----- Clifford -------

What is the "ye few, ye brave" stuff??? You were the one we just hurled into the pit of quicksand...... Just remember, the longer you stay, the deeper you sink!!!!!! ------ Clifford ------

Ok, I hope this isn't premature..... We need to start taking nominations for Fearless Leaders for a possible meeting in GZ China. I would suggest selecting 2 representatives with the following characteristics: American (a Chinese Fiancee/Spouse may be possible for a 3rd perspective) K1-K4 Visa application somewhere in processing from BCIS through GZ (preferably somewhere stuck in GZ). Either in China, or able to travel to China as necessary. (oh, and a "screaming 2 month old infant" wouldn't hurt). Willing to Represent the WHOLE Group. Interested in more than a single issue. For example, we don't want to fix the P3 Pit by making a HUGE P4 Pit. AND NO WHITESLIPS!!!! ----- Clifford ----- P.S. If we have several nominees and can't work it out, then I would suggest using the Candle Poll function later. Perhaps we will come up with a mutual agreement before that.

Mick, Thank you for the very thorough explanation. It sounds like even the GODS were working against you. Fatal Bus Crash on the trip, No Train Tickets, etc. I am a little surprised that they don't do the trains Italian Style..... Put in as many people as one can cram inside..... I remember one trip that I was on with 1 seat for 6 people!!!! I think we should first elect some fearless leaders that are actually either in China, or could plan to go to China. Perhaps 2 individuals is a good idea. I know that robhon has been quite vocal lately. But, I would suggest taking nominations..... Then, the Candle has a wonderful voting capability (hmmm, could I create a hundred bogus accounts and stack the deck?????). I presume the leaders should be American, although an argument could be made for including a third Chinese leader. Although the "Old Advisors" may be helpful for us, our representatives should also be somewhere in the process (BCIS through GZ). The next thing that needs to be decided (or perhaps in conjunction with choosing leaders) is an agenda. I would recommend not approaching this with too narrow of a scope. However, we still need to come up with suggestions that are "reasonable" in the eyes of the GZ management and the government. For example, It is a wonderful idea to "fix" the P3 Pit...... We could just throw everyone that is in the P3 Pit into the P4 Pit!!!!!!! Problem fixed, done with, and onto the next!!!!! A better approach would be to come up with a better way to avoid the pits altogether. Perhaps it would be as simple as improving record keeping. Perhaps the NVC needs to organize their paperwork better prior to sending it to GZ (I.E. Something that could be coordinated stateside). GZ definitely needs to be able to FIND all of the applications, and have some reason for their order of processing cases. Oh, and the "Real Boss" is neither in GZ, nor in Beijing. It is our good old Federal Government, right here in the USA. ----- Clifford ------

I think BCIS could use a fact sheet. First Describe the process: BCIS --> NVC --> Ship to Embassy --> Embassy P3 --> P4 --> Interview --> Visa And, Describe the fees: $110 + $100 + $65 + $335 (then what comes next?) And, of course, more money for dependent children. It seems as if they are deliberately keeping people in the dark about processing times and fees (of course, the biggest fees come last). If they really want the "system" to discourage some people from applying, wouldn't it make more sense to tell them that the visa costs over $610, and could to take up to a year and a half to issue, rather than telling them that it costs $110, and will be done in 70 to 90 days? ----- Clifford -----

robhon, According to a recent post, "mikem" has either fallen into the pit, or at least is falling to the pit..... How do you define the pit, Leaving NVC, or arriving GZ? ----- CK -----

Welcome to the P3 PIT. Best of luck for a speedy exit, ---- Clifford -----

Hmmm, What is all that about forwarding the petition by scanned e-mail? http://www.visadelays.com/documents/govdoc...%20Issuance.pdf ------------------------------------------ What is NVC's role in processing K3 visas? ------------------------------------------ 22. NVC receives an approved I-129F/K3 petition from INS, performs the NCIC namecheck, and forwards the petition to the processing post by scanned e-mail. Posts must keep NVC informed of any changes in the e-mail address at post to which NVC is sending these cases. Send a Visas Hawk to NVC for any derivative at least 16 years old for whom no NCIC has been run. NVC also sends a letter to the U.S. petitioner to let him/her know the case has been forwarded to post. ----------------------------------------------------- How does a consular officer determine K3 eligibility? ----------------------------------------------------- 20. INS must approve an I-129F petition/K3 petition before post can process the K3. Post will receive approved I-129F petitions from INS via NVC by scanned e-mail, see Ref E, 7-14. As is the case for K1 fiancé petitions, consular officers are not delegated authority by INS to approve K3 petitions. Posts may, however, revalidate K3 petitions, which expire four months from the date of approval, for additional fourmonth periods, under the provisions of 9 FAM 41.31 N5.2.

Hmmm, Why does the Visa Condor program apply?????????? It specifically lists MALE applicants ages 16 to 45. My fiancee isn't a MALE!!!!!!! Why aren't the namechecks completed within 30 days? Well, I guess I have more research into other birds (Hawk). I presume that somehow this GAO report is related to the black-hole that occurred at about the same time it was issued. November 14, 2001 the 20 day visa namecheck weint into effect. ...For all MALE visa applicants of certain national groups between the ages of 16 and 45. When the consular officer attempts to issue a visa to such an applicant, the computer system automatically places a hold on that applicant’s record, so that the consular officer cannot issue a visa before the 20 days have elapsed. The information on the applicant is then electronically transmitted from the State Department to the FBI for the name check itself. On the twenty-first day, the computer automatically unlocks these applicant cases, and the computer system prompts the consular officer to make a decision. If the consular officer has not received a negative response from Washington on an applicant, then he or she is permitted to issue the visa. The State Department instituted the 30-day name check, called Visas Condor, in late January 2002. Consular officers apply Visas Condor procedures to those applicants who require a 20-day name check and who fit certain additional classified criteria. Local staff prepare Condor cables for these applicants and transmit them back to the State Department. Until mid-September 2002, the State Department then sent the cables to the FBI and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for name checks.33 The initial Condor process allowed the consular officer to issue the visa after 30 days if he or she had not received negative information on the applicant from any of these agencies. The supplemental visa application form, instituted in mid-January 2002, provides additional information on such things as the applicant’s travel and educational history, employer information, and military service to aid the consular officers’ assessment of whether the applicant requires a Condor or other security check. All MALE applicants between the ages of 16 and 45 must fill out and submit the supplemental form along with the usual visa application. Hmmm, some interesting statistics from the GAO report, October 2002. Stats for September 11 2001 through April 30, 2002. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Saudi Arabia Visa Applications (Saudi Nationals) 6,136 Number Interviewed 2,083 Percent interviewed 33.9 Visas Issued 5,937 Visas Refused 199 Percent Refused 3.2% ----------------------------- Saudi Arabia Visa Applications (Third Country National Applications in Saudi Arabia) 6,401 Number Interviewed 4,274 Percent interviewed 66.8 Visas Issued 4,485 Visas Refused 1,916 Percent Refused 29.9% References: http://www.visadelays.com/documents/govdoc.../GAO-Report.pdf

I'd love to take my fiancee to the movie...... Isn't that what couples should be doing? Going to movies together? Of course, some &*@%^$@#@(!!*&@#*@&(*@#(*$#*&^!!!!! beurocrats have decided that we should be kept apart for over a year.