Racism in China

[Feathers268]

First, I have to say that what I'm about to post by no means has changed my love for China, and Jen would not approve of posting, but I feel it is important enough to start the disscusion for those who will come to China for the first time as well as those who might have had a similar experience.

After 3 days in Shanghai, Jen was getting us a room here in Kunshan with her cousin while I waited in the the car with the husband of Jen's cousin. At one point, things seemed to heat up inside so I was asked to stay in the car as he went to see what was the trouble with the ladies inside. When Jen pointed her finger at the "lady" behind the counter, she grabbed Jen and tried pulling my wife over the counter. It wound up with the door "man" jumping in the middle and Jen's cousin and her husband separating them. I burst from the car, hitting my head on the door, and rushed toward the lobby, thankfully, being stopped by the husband before I had a chance to hurt someone and probably would have wound up on the Chinese version of "Cops". For those who don't know me from before Jen's arrival in the US, I am not a violent man having last swung my fists in anger in the 7th grade but I am very passionate about family and about my wife most of all. You can say or do anything to me and I will probably laugh in you face. You lay a hand on Jennifer? IT'S ON!!!!!!

As I stood there glaring at this poor excuse for a person holding a job we in America replaced with electronic sensors and motors to open the door, he and the original "lady" kept on verbally pushing Jen with "mei gou" repeated many times. Finally the manager on duty got her out of there as well as trying, unsuccessfully, to get me to stop recording the incident with my camcorder. Finally we left having been offered a better room at the sister hotel on the other side of the city.

So, what was the problem? The person behind the desk, who had told Jen by phone that a room was available, changed her mind upon learning that the husband, me, was American and therfore not worth doing business with. Jen, the wonerful and protective person she is, could not stand this and was standing up for me when things got out of hand. I explained to Jen and her cousin afterwards, that such actions would have wound up with the first "lady" hauled off to jail and me having the doorboy and manager's job.

Being a white man in America, such things are not known to me. I'm sure Charles as well as a few others truly understand such things as unfortunatly, racism still lives in many parts of the US as well. As for the words, it does not hurt me as I pitty anyone so small minded that they can judge people by race or nationality. Even now, I recognize the tension that can still exist between the US and China as our governments struggle with each other but that is the political side. When it comes to the people, I feel everyone deserves the chance to be discovered for who they are, not what they look like. My anger only comes from someone hurting Jen.

In walking the streets here, I am aware of the stares from others, especially when Jen and I are together. I just shrug it off knowing that a lot of the time it is resentment that I am with such a beautiful Chinese woman, pictures Jen had done last month proves this, and some times because of me, but even then, it is near impossible to tell the difference between us Americans and those visiting from Europe. In the end, as I said, I have no hard feelings about China and her people. In time I can even forgive those who laid a hand on Jen. But as it should be, this site mostly highlights all of the good China has to offer but be warned, even the Garden of Eden had it's snakes.

[Joanne]

Racism goes strong in China. This is an undeniable truth. This is a country with strong social prejudice and biase. There is biase towards people from certain country, from certain provinces, from certain cities. The city folks look down on the country folks. In particular, many Shanghainess concerning people from all other parts of China country folks , and thus look down on them. The people from big metropolitan look down on the poeple from smaller cities. The northeners are biased against the southerners, and vice versa. Even people who graduated from famous universities look down on the poeple graduated from lesser schools... on and on.... We are plainly used to this. This is one of the baggages from the country's long history.

 

However, Caucasions are ususally not looked down on. Unfortunately some of them are spoiled rotten in China.

[SheLikesME?]

I am spoiled and rotten. Just ask me.

[Joanne]

I am spoiled and rotten. Just ask me.

 

No, you don't qualify.

[tonado]

Some hotels in China do charge people with foreign passports a higher rate. Even though the person is Asian but now holds an US passport, he might be charged a higher rate. That is why we let our Chinese SOs do the booking and getting the rooms.

[Cerberus]

First, I have to say that what I'm about to post by no means has changed my love for China, and Jen would not approve of posting, but I feel it is important enough to start the disscusion for those who will come to China for the first time as well as those who might have had a similar experience.

After 3 days in Shanghai, Jen was getting us a room here in Kunshan with her cousin while I waited in the the car with the husband of Jen's cousin. At one point, things seemed to heat up inside so I was asked to stay in the car as he went to see what was the trouble with the ladies inside. When Jen pointed her finger at the "lady" behind the counter, she grabbed Jen and tried pulling my wife over the counter. It wound up with the door "man" jumping in the middle and Jen's cousin and her husband separating them. I burst from the car, hitting my head on the door, and rushed toward the lobby, thankfully, being stopped by the husband before I had a chance to hurt someone and probably would have wound up on the Chinese version of "Cops". For those who don't know me from before Jen's arrival in the US, I am not a violent man having last swung my fists in anger in the 7th grade but I am very passionate about family and about my wife most of all. You can say or do anything to me and I will probably laugh in you face. You lay a hand on Jennifer? IT'S ON!!!!!!

As I stood there glaring at this poor excuse for a person holding a job we in America replaced with electronic sensors and motors to open the door, he and the original "lady" kept on verbally pushing Jen with "mei gou" repeated many times. Finally the manager on duty got her out of there as well as trying, unsuccessfully, to get me to stop recording the incident with my camcorder. Finally we left having been offered a better room at the sister hotel on the other side of the city.

So, what was the problem? The person behind the desk, who had told Jen by phone that a room was available, changed her mind upon learning that the husband, me, was American and therfore not worth doing business with. Jen, the wonerful and protective person she is, could not stand this and was standing up for me when things got out of hand. I explained to Jen and her cousin afterwards, that such actions would have wound up with the first "lady" hauled off to jail and me having the doorboy and manager's job.

Being a white man in America, such things are not known to me. I'm sure Charles as well as a few others truly understand such things as unfortunatly, racism still lives in many parts of the US as well. As for the words, it does not hurt me as I pitty anyone so small minded that they can judge people by race or nationality. Even now, I recognize the tension that can still exist between the US and China as our governments struggle with each other but that is the political side. When it comes to the people, I feel everyone deserves the chance to be discovered for who they are, not what they look like. My anger only comes from someone hurting Jen.

In walking the streets here, I am aware of the stares from others, especially when Jen and I are together. I just shrug it off knowing that a lot of the time it is resentment that I am with such a beautiful Chinese woman, pictures Jen had done last month proves this, and some times because of me, but even then, it is near impossible to tell the difference between us Americans and those visiting from Europe. In the end, as I said, I have no hard feelings about China and her people. In time I can even forgive those who laid a hand on Jen. But as it should be, this site mostly highlights all of the good China has to offer but be warned, even the Garden of Eden had it's snakes.

Feathers,

 

You bring up a very real, however ugly subject with your posting. However, it should have been posted for a long time. This is a real side of life in China.

 

I agree with Joanne and Tony and their statements also. I have seen ¡°double tier¡± payment system whenever I have traveled into the Far East. This is especially true in Thailand and the Philippines. Tony, brings up a very valuable point; when traveling let the SO do the booking arrangements. Albeit, this has backfired more than once or twice for me, after the management finds out that they have been "screwed!" Laowes, no matter whom; pays more!

 

From what I have perceived from Orientals in the Far East, one generalization they all seem to have in common!

 

"All Westerner's are sooooo rich! LOL!"

 

Yeah! Right!

 

This generalization has been around when I began traveling in 1974 and it still holds true today! However, I can assure you that it was far worse in 1974 thru 1980. Today, it seems to be a bit better. But.... the generalization I spoke of, is still there today!

 

One incident sticks out in my mind from the last trip I had in China. My wife¡¯s hometown of Chengdu and/or Wenjiang is generally pretty laid back! Neither of us have had very serious problems there. Alice and myself were going somewhere; I really can¡¯t remember what the trip was for. We hired a taxi, for the trip. Generally, Alice and I both like to appear normal <akin to Chinese older couples> in public. There isn't a lot of hand holding, kissing, loud talking, grabbing her butt, etc, etc. Alice flagged down a taxi outside of our hotel, the Sofitel. Alice began the haggling over the price, with the driver. During this entire process, I stood by, kept my mouth shut and let her handle the financial arrangements. Both agreed to the monetary terms and we began the trip. My wife and the driver were both talking back and forth. I simply laid back, watched the view out of the window, asking a few questions to her about ¡°this or that¡± that caught my interest. Later, the driver began lamenting to her about rich Westerner's marrying poor Chinese girls, how they (Westerner¡¯s) are so bad, Westerner¡¯s are so proud of the money they had but had no heart, yadda, yadda, yadda. My wife began openly translating the driver¡¯s words to me. I calmly sat listening to her translating the driver's words for me, nodding sagely. < attempting to remain very calm. > The driver began asking who I was and when had I hired her <Alice>, since she was obviously translating for me! She told him that I was a major corporate executive from Omaha, Nebr. <This statement alone shows that the driver has about much brains as a sack full of hammers! > This statement alone is such a ¡°bald-faced¡± lie, that I laughed at it later for two days! She continued, stating to the diver that I was looking at making major investments in Chengdu, China. She had been "hired" as a personal escort, translator and secretary for me!

 

Then the driver fully relaxed and let his heart spill out even more. He continued on with his tirade about Westerner¡¯s marrying poor Chinese women. However, he was very proud that he was able to drive a perceived ¡°major corporate executive¡± around, with his own escort/secretary/translator! I noticed also that he was more than happy to accept a Westerner¡¯s ¡°dirty¡± money too!!! He gave us a business card, I the case that I needed him again, with his cell phone number on it! The man is so stupid that he also personally wrote his home telephone number on it! HMMMMMMMMMM I wonder if he is still waiting for a call? LOL! Maybe, I should call him again! Say perhaps,¡­.at 4:00am in the morning!

 

I never endorse lying and personally feel that it is morally repugnant! However, in the poor sod's case, I fully endorse lying. The poor sod even bought her entire line of crap, "hook, line, sinker and the fishing pole¡± all at once!

 

Regards to your wife, I will not condemn any man and/or woman for their anger in regard to family. IMHO, you acted properly for this situation. It is also very hard for me to be pushed to the limits you were! However, once I am pushed too far; then the opposite party has a very serious problem on their hands! This point alone has so many preconceptions too. I belong to three other expatriate forums. This issue of violence has been raised so many times; I can't even count them anymore. Some people say it is the Laowei's fault. Others, state go ahead and "kick the crap" out of the offender! Others state that the Laowei placed himself in this position. To further confuse the issue, others state that your wife knew what she was getting into and should simply accept their fate! I really don't know what the answer is! I believe that no one could really tell you what the exact correct response would be. Only you and/or the victim can decide what is the appropriate response. Just be aware of the law enforcement consequences. A video on your part is a very, very smart idea.

 

What was you wife¡¯s feeling afterwards? I hope that she isn¡¯t too down, after this incident. After all, she was dealing with another idiot. Several times Alice has had this happen to her! She is always very disappointed and will remain depressed for several days afterwards.

 

Dave

Edited October 22, 2006 by Cerberus (see edit history)

[Yuanyang]

You'll find that racism, while outlawed and officially banished in the societies of the USA and Europe, runs rampant throughout the rest of the world.

 

If not racism, then it's tribalism (note genecide in Africa the past decades as an extreme example).

[tonado]

Actually, it happened to me 4 years ago in GZ. I was there during the final week of the China fair in October. My wife's sister and I were on route to HK from Nanning. We had to stay one night in GZ. Since we had no hotel reservation, we asked the taxi driver to take us to any hotel. He took us to a 3-stars hotel. Prior to getting off the taxi, my wife's sister asked the porter about the price for one night. He said about 900 rmb. We took all our luggages and went inside. Since I have a US passort, I waited in the lobby and let my wife's sister do the check-in. At that time, she has a green card and a Chinese passport. Since the manager also saw me, he asked for her passport and my passport. Once he found out that I am an US citizen (I am Chinese-American), he said the price is 2000 rmb. My wife's sister was so angry and argued with him for a long time. She told him he can be arrested for charging more for foreigners. After 30 minutes, she told him that we are leaving. Then he finally agreed to charge us 1200 rmb for one night. The room was so dirty (bathroom was stained). It was the worst lodging experience I ever had. I didn't even take a shower. The room should be a no star place. Maybe the manager did plan it.

[skibum]

This is part lf the culture that we all love in Asia. In Japan I had a hard time renting an apt for an extended time as "westerners always ruin the apt." In Guilin, I could not take Chinese citizens boat but had to ride with the Taiwanese at a higher cost. Just grin and bear it.

 

It was not so long ago that business owners could bar people from their businesses here. We should not expect that the whole world advances socially as we do. They don't economicly so why socially?

 

It may be distasteful to you but I think I make a pretty good minority.

[chilton747]

This is part lf the culture that we all love in Asia. In Japan I had a hard time renting an apt for an extended time as "westerners always ruin the apt." In Guilin, I could not take Chinese citizens boat but had to ride with the Taiwanese at a higher cost. Just grin and bear it.

 

It was not so long ago that business owners could bar people from their businesses here. We should not expect that the whole world advances socially as we do. They don't economicly so why socially?

 

It may be distasteful to you but I think I make a pretty good minority.

 

Well put

[ptcrusier333rph]

we seem to forget that not to long ago it was illegal to marry an oriental person in California.

[NewDay2006]

I can't say I've experienced racism so much in China, but I understand how they try overcharge the "american".

 

When I was in Ghuangzhou, I decided to take a van supplied by the hotel I was staying at near the airport. I basically wanted to see a little of Guz away from the airport. This would be the first time I've ventured out alone in China, besides the traveling to meet my wife.

I ordered a few things, nothing was in english and I was really at the mercy of the resturant owner... to make a long story short, I got a bill for aprox. $130 rmb, not a lot of money, but more than I've paid in other cities, like shanghai and beijin and beihai, for much more food and for 2 people... I had nothing so expensive... soup, fried rice... anyway i knew I was duped... I paid the bill took the van back to the hotel where I complained to the front desk. They didn't understand me very well, but a woman came over(very pretty) and she spoke very good english. she explained what happened. the hotel called the resturant and said if this is how they treated thier hotel guests, they would no longer send thier guests... after this a man came over and repaid 50rmb, still not enough, but I accepted it. I won't ever venture out again in China and buy without prices being posted.

 

I have found that some chinese women were not interested in becoming involved with a black man, but that was not everyone. so I was very fortunate to meet the woman who makes me very happy.

[Feathers268]

You all make very good points. As I had said, being a white American racism is an issue for "others". In all honesty it leads for a rather sheltered live and if you don't leave the states, the worst I could expect is to be wrongly called racist through missunderstanding. I know in my heart that my feelings and actions were right in that I have no regrets in what I did and felt. Seeing Jen assulted was far too much to take as I'm sure most here would agree if the situation arose with their own SO.

Dave, as far as how Jen took it. She was able to laugh about it later that night and was by far more concerned with the bump on my head from hitting the car door and the cold I got thanks to sitting on the plane next to someone hacking and coughing all the way from SFO. Will this affect the rest of our stay? Not a chance. We are now planning to head out for some shopping and as before, we will hold hands and look very much as a couple. All of those around can think and even say what they want. JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY WIFE!

[sweattrl1]

You all make very good points. As I had said, being a white American racism is an issue for "others". In all honesty it leads for a rather sheltered live and if you don't leave the states, the worst I could expect is to be wrongly called racist through missunderstanding. I know in my heart that my feelings and actions were right in that I have no regrets in what I did and felt. Seeing Jen assulted was far too much to take as I'm sure most here would agree if the situation arose with their own SO.

Dave, as far as how Jen took it. She was able to laugh about it later that night and was by far more concerned with the bump on my head from hitting the car door and the cold I got thanks to sitting on the plane next to someone hacking and coughing all the way from SFO. Will this affect the rest of our stay? Not a chance. We are now planning to head out for some shopping and as before, we will hold hands and look very much as a couple. All of those around can think and even say what they want. JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY WIFE!

I have only been to china twice , and i agree that they do charge westerners more, me and my SO was shopping one day and my SO was buying for me so i would not get burned, she and this chinese girl had words for a long time before my SO accept the price she finally offered, the girl ask my SO why she worry so much about what she ,charge a westerner, and my SO being the naughty one replied, because he is my husband ,i thought this was very funny , and will be happy when we are married, but i have not really encountered any racist that i know about but too , i do not understand chinese very well

[RLS]

And as much as we would like to ignore it, we still have plenty of racism right here in the good Ol USA. The ugly part is covered over, but, it's right there under the surface.