You Sir, Are an Idiot and a Moron...

[shushuweiwei]

The problem with the board and why people do not post is that many of you, including mods, cannot HANDLE THE TRUTH! Perhaps that is why there are so many guests and not many members logged in and posting. Some people are tired of red neck stupidity and us foreingers do not understand satire or bad English.

 

What I really hate is when those rednecks stoop so low as to engage in name calling!

[shushuweiwei]

folks just because you marry some one from china do's not make china perfect.

who said this?

[dustyone]

folks just because you marry some one from china do's not make china perfect.

who said this?

 

 

I did ?

[Dennis143]

We all know the majority of us here have a love for China and most everything Chinese. What I have noticed is when a few criticize China or bring up issues or problems that China faces others are quick to defend, as if there is little tolerance for an honest critique. The argument often tauted is simply that "YOU haven't lived here (like I have), so you're not qualified to discuss anything." or something to that affect...

 

I suppose it simply comes down to individual perceptions. I had a long discussion with a Candle member who was 'stuck' in China waiting to get his ailing wife's visa (most of you know who I am talking about). He was down right bitter and angry with the way Chinese treated other Chinese and their downright lack of respecting others property, feelings or general welfare. He's not here to comment, so, yes, it is hearsay your Honor.

 

Nonetheless, I find it strange that there too often seems to be two strongly divided thoughts with little middle ground. On the one side there are those who simply point out China's growning pains and myriad of social issues. And, then there are those who staunchly deny and defend, as if merely discussing any warts is a no no. And, by merely bringing up issues for discussion the 'race card' is played by saying they are China bashing.

 

I just don't get it.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

We all know the majority of us here have a love for China and most everything Chinese. What I have noticed is when a few criticize China or bring up issues or problems that China faces others are quick to defend, as if there is little tolerance for an honest critique. The argument often tauted is simply that "YOU haven't lived here (like I have), so you're not qualified to discuss anything." or something to that affect...

 

I suppose it simply comes down to individual perceptions. I had a long discussion with a Candle member who was 'stuck' in China waiting to get his ailing wife's visa (most of you know who I am talking about). He was down right bitter and angry with the way Chinese treated other Chinese and their downright lack of respecting others property, feelings or general welfare. He's not here to comment, so, yes, it is hearsay your Honor.

 

Nonetheless, I find it strange that there too often seems to be two strongly divided thoughts with little middle ground. On the one side there are those who simply point out China's growning pains and myriad of social issues. And, then there are those who staunchly deny and defend, as if merely discussing any warts is a no no. And, by merely bringing up issues for discussion the 'race card' is played by saying they are China bashing.

 

I just don't get it.

 

I certainly don't think China is perfect. China is going through the same growing pains that the USA went through in the industrial revolution. But that industrial revolution turned the USA into the world's #1 economic power of the 20th century. However, it is clear that China will become the #1 economic power of the 21st century, while we will become the France of the 20th century. I'm not saying that China is good and the USA is bad, it's just the road we decided to choose, for better or for worse.

[IllinoisDave]

folks just because you marry some one from china do's not make china perfect.

IMHO From what I have encountered in my limited time here at CFL, is that nobody thinks China is perfect

Unfortunately, some seem to be of the opinion that you should just think about it's imperfection, not talk about it.

 

Hey Dave, go ahead, say something good about China; I dare you!

 

Said plenty of good things about China and will continue to. Feel free to look them up.

 

You're quite fortunate to have found someone that cares about you here Dave. Life here in China is just not for everyone. And while I've only been living and working here a short time, I've met several challenges that make me wonder just what the hell I was thinking. Still, I find that seeking the positive side of China helps me make it through from one day to the next. I do my best to walk past the restaurant businesses near my home that sweep their stinky garbage and waste into the street everyday. I think my gag reflexes are getting stronger though.

 

As for the air, well, anyone that's been here knows that they have a problem. Thank goodness for windy days as it seems to make it a bit cleaner. Now, as for buying products like DVD players, TVs, toaster ovens, etc., one would expect that when you buy it, take it home and plug it in, that it will work as advertised. Truth is, things are just not as well-inspected here as those in the US. So, it may or may not work at all.

 

Is it all rosey? Hell no. Not even close. It's well-known that China has issues. It's always been my contention that the people of China make up for the differences that we westerners have come to expect in day to day life. It ain't easy over here, but for sure, one can't make it in life focusing on things that will just not change. In the US, if you don't like the store, you just drive to another. Here in China, you're pretty much stuck with what's there in your neighborhood, so you either learn to deal with it, or leave.

On this we are in complete agreement.

Edited July 23, 2008 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

We all know the majority of us here have a love for China and most everything Chinese. What I have noticed is when a few criticize China or bring up issues or problems that China faces others are quick to defend, as if there is little tolerance for an honest critique. The argument often tauted is simply that "YOU haven't lived here (like I have), so you're not qualified to discuss anything." or something to that affect...

 

I suppose it simply comes down to individual perceptions. I had a long discussion with a Candle member who was 'stuck' in China waiting to get his ailing wife's visa (most of you know who I am talking about). He was down right bitter and angry with the way Chinese treated other Chinese and their downright lack of respecting others property, feelings or general welfare. He's not here to comment, so, yes, it is hearsay your Honor.

 

Nonetheless, I find it strange that there too often seems to be two strongly divided thoughts with little middle ground. On the one side there are those who simply point out China's growning pains and myriad of social issues. And, then there are those who staunchly deny and defend, as if merely discussing any warts is a no no. And, by merely bringing up issues for discussion the 'race card' is played by saying they are China bashing.

 

I just don't get it.

 

Dennis,

 

You are quite right about many of these "growing pains" in China. Let me just say, that I'm by no mean an expert about anything relating to China. I'm just like you in that I married a Chinese woman through whom I've learned a lot about the country. There is more to learn about it than time will permit in one's life.

 

I came here with my family to have a better life, and in many ways we are doing that. Life is good, but still there are things that are unlikely to change. Health-care is frightening. In America, one can expect to provide medical insurance for their family through their job. Not so in China, as medical insurance is not available for your family; insurance only covers the worker. You must procure insurance for your family through a private company. Then, there is the quality of care. The dirty air and streets. And theives. While Lan was downtown the other day, she noticed that a young pretty girl was trying to reach in her bag. As soon as she saw her, the girl took off running like a bat-out-of hell! Right along side her, was a large Asian man running with her. Later, Lan discovered that the girl managed to steal 500RMB from her bag. It makes you angry.

 

When I look at the differences between China and the US, there is simply no comparison. Many talk about retiring in China one day. A very good idea as your money can go quite bit further here than the US. The big challenge is adjusting to the life and bad parts of the country. Personally, if I come pre-occupied with only the bad side of those differences, it would be more difficult to make it from day to day.

 

Discussing issues that face China is not China bashing. A friend of mine told me once that he lived by the "but, hey" philosophy. For example: The air is dirty, their are theives, poor health-care, but hey, I've got my health, a beautiful wife, and we are happy. We can make it.

[Dennis143]

A friend of mine told me once that he lived by the "but, hey" philosophy. For example: The air is dirty, their are theives, poor health-care, but hey, I've got my health, a beautiful wife, and we are happy. We can make it.

That is a great philosophy to live by...

 

We all know it is one that you strive to live by too, Jesse.

 

I am one of many who admire and envy you. When sensing and seeing that your family wasn't happy, instead of demanding that they adapt and get along in their new life in America, you made the ultimate choice to go with them and live with them in their 'life' in China.

 

We can all sit back feeling smug about having our Chinese wife and our 'life' that entails Chinese, yet I wonder how many of us would do what you have done.

 

We are all your students, Jesse. I for one am earnestly waiting to learn more.

 

Thank you for the wonderfully candid reply.

[jemmyell]

"I dissaprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

 

There was a very minor skirmish in one of our MK threads recently. The controversy is a very, very old one here...It actually predates the Han Dynasty in China...

 

Here it is in a nutshell. Member A posts something negative about China... Member B responds that this is complete hogwash and everything about China is perfect in every way... Member C thinks the glass is half empty... Member D says they are all seeing the issue through rose-tinted glasses which are are neither half-full nor half-empty... and on and on...

 

I know that some people who posted negatively here about China have just decided to go away rather than have to defend their ancestry... I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think that there is only good news about China... I don't think that there is only bad news either...

 

I think everyone should feel free to post the good or the bad without having to worry about getting jumped on...

 

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to agree or disagree with that opinion in a reasoned way...

 

So let's all try to come here with the intent to interact and learn and discuss a place we all have a special place for in our hearts...

 

Ok, WHO ARE YOU? And what have you done with Roger??

 

-James

[H.Woodside]

Still, I find that seeking the positive side of China helps me make it through from one day to the next.

 

I would hope that this applies to the United States also (for our SO's), IMHO.

Edited July 23, 2008 by H.Woodside (see edit history)

[Maxal]

All right being new here and not really knowing the history my first impression from the last month is:

 

1) Not a lot of negative is said about China.

 

2) Not a lot of negative is said about America either.

 

The forum is non-political which I think keeps it a little bit more civil in these divided times than other open forums about anything.

 

The reason I enjoy the forum is that IT IS focused on the visa process and surrounding issues. If we wish to really open up a discussion to other areas of life, then ask the MODs to add something to Twisted Candle. Maybe a forum called China Rant and one called American Rant. Give the folks who really have something to say that has nothing to do with the object of the forum a place to say it.

 

There is nothing wrong with disagreements. My best friend and I have had several raised voice discussions on politics and we agree the majority of the time. But that is what friends do express opinions, listen, discuss it and remain friends. Does not mean you have to like or agree with the opinion, just discuss it. Who knows we all might learn something along the way or find a new friend you do not agree with but enjoy their logic and manner in which they think about an issue.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Maxal (see edit history)

[Smitty]

Anyone remember A Mafan's thread about using this place correctly?

[Dennis143]

Anyone remember A Mafan's thread about using this place correctly?

I don't. What did he say?

[rogerluli]

Anyone remember A Mafan's thread about using this place correctly?

I don't. What did he say?

 

Gosh darn it Dennis... last week you're ready to throw in the towel and now you're trying to catch up to me and Randy...

 

But getting back to the actual question... The MK is a different animal than some of the other forums...I thought this thread adressed the main issue of contention that exists here and nowhere else...

[georgeandli]

Can't we all just get along? Maybe wisdom does just come with age. After I hit my Thirties it dawned on me MAYBE I wasn't as smart as I thought I was. Screwing up tends to make you realize that. As soon as a disagreement denagrates to name calling by the other side, you've won. The trick is to make sure you aren't the one to start throwing mud.