Steve and Aiwen

David, Thoughtful and to the point as usual......after all the crap we go through, and all that we all learn in the process, we should all be sought-after representatives to China...lol.....as usual, I found your comments to be very insightful..... I think I will play this more carefully....I don't want to push too hard....I just want to do the right thing by my SO and her family.....I've been doing #2 in your reply from the beginning....it's a long time yet to our "wedding"....time for changes and much discussion with my Chinese family. My SO is my primary intermediary, helped by her older sister. I'll let them do the "negotiating", so to speak.... You are very right...it's about a memory.....all girls dream about their wedding day, I want hers to be a wonderful one. It will be more about the people and our feelings than about how much money was spent....I'll keep my focus on my SO and go from there. Thanks, David. Steve

I'm glad you realize this Steve. It's more true than you jokingly state above. Indeed, your "face" (and that of your SO) is definitely on the line here. Let me just say that, generally, Chinese people always decline offers out of proper modesty and decorum. They may in fact want and appreciate your offerings, but must decline outwardly so as not to come across as free loaders or leeches. If it is indeed your genuine wish to provide for a big party, then regardless of what your SO's parents may say to you outwardly, you press forward politely but in a stern manner and make it clear to them that you really desire to have a nice party and that you want to pay for it, and lastly make it known to them that you will lose face if you don't do this. When you toss out the losing face card, I believe they will accept and honor your wishes. I'm sure that internally they are quite happy to see their future son-in-law provide for a nice wedding party but out of propriety they cannot be seen as been too greedy or eager to accept. The only caveat is if they are somehow ashamed of their daughter's choice for a husband and truly wish to keep the wedding banquet to as few people as possible. While this may sound harsh--and may not apply in your case at all--it's certainly possible. Not every Chinese parent and relatives are thrilled about having a lao-wei for their son-in-law. But let's hope this is not the case in your situation and it's simply a case of your future-in-laws displaying proper modesty and decorum. Good luck. Have a grand wedding banquet! After all Steve, your face is on the line! Hi, Thanks for the reply.....you offer some good insights for me....as for my acceptablility to the family....they are tickled to death! I talk to them often, and will be spending my next visit with them in May. Mama is a big fan....lol...my poor Chinese was a big hit with her, and she was all big smiles shortly after we met the first time....My SO's younger sister is married to a German, and lives in Frankfort....so the idea of a "lao wei" as a son-in-law is not a new idea to them.....they are always telling me that I am a good man for their daughter...I talk with my SO's sister often also, she tells me that Mama and Baba and family are very happy with me....... I think the advise and coaching I got from CFL before my first meeting of the family played a large part in how well I was accepted....I showed the proper respect (bow), speaking Chinese(I try!!), and the welcome dinner party in the nice restaurant in Nanning I gave also made a good impression....I insisted on paying for Mama's and Sister's hotel, since they went to the trouble of an 14-hour overnight train ride from Zhaoqing just to meet me. So far, my "face" is good....that's why I want to make sure our "wedding" party is a good one.....it won't cost that much by my standards.....maybe $500 USD or so....probably not that much, only about 30 people...well within my means.... So, maybe Mama and Baba are just using the expenses for travel, visa, etc, as a plausible reason to be frugal.....for my own good, of course..... I'll continue to press...politely and firmly....for a more tasteful party....I understand more each day this concept of appearances that is so important in Chinese culture...it is just not second nature to me like it is to a native Chinese person...I think I'll bide my time a bit yet, before I play the "face" card.....a little psychological strategy is in order, perhaps.... My SO is from a fairly well-off family....by Chinese standards...they have 3 resteraunts in Zhaoqing....Baba and my SO's two older brothers run them....I've asked the brothers to be best man and MC.... Perhaps I should suggest an amount to plan on...I don't know......from my previous experience in China, limited though it is, I could have a fairly nice blow-out for 5000 yuan.....we are only talking about maybe 30 people....I'll bet it won't run that much...but the "face" I might gain from suggesting it could work out....I don't know....I'll have a better idea, and will talk to the family about it in person in May....the "wedding" will be in the Fall, when we expect to get the visa.....if the Wiz in Guz smiles upon us with benevolence...... Thanks for the kind words.....btw, I'm having a lot of fun with this.....it should be quite a memorable experience for me and my SO..... Steve

There is no $1500 dowry......I'm giving Mama and Baba an envelope with a lucky amount in each...which add up to another lucky number.....it's nowhere near $1500.....and she owes no one for posting profiles, etc....she wrote her own, posted on a couple of free sites....one of which we met on... It is her first marriage.....but no dowry has been asked for, or even suggested....it's like pulling teeth to even get them to let me spend the money on the "wedding".... Steve

Hello All, My SO and I have been talking a lot about our mock "wedding" celebration in China after we get the visa....hopefully in October or November....I have worked out the dowry issue....no problem there.... What I am having difficulty with is getting her and her family to allow me to spend a little money for a nice party....I keep suggesting that we invite anyone she and her family would like to attend....but Baba and Mama keep saying that only 5 or 6 friends outside of family will be invited by them....they are concerned that I have to spend much money on the airfares just to come to China, and my SO's airfare back to the US with me, the costs for the visa process, trips to China I have made and am making, etc....I appreciate their kindness in thinking of our future as Husband and Wife..... I am just not sure how insistent I should be in talking about a nice party....as it stands right now, we are looking at about 30 people or so.....we plan to have the shindig at a local resteraunt.....I appreciate my Chinese family's efforts to be so considerate of my expenses, but I want to be sure I give the proper respect, and show them how much I care for their daughter, and them. This involves "face", and I am on uncertain ground as a ignorant Westerner. Her family is very open and liberal, traditional in some ways, but mostly of a modern point of view. I will say that they have a good opinion of me, and think their daughter has a good man for her husband(to be)..... My SO and I have agreed to buy the Tan Dynasty clothes, this will cost about 1000 yuan for us both....we want to have them to wear here in the US later....we are hiring a professional photographer for about 2000 yuan....to make the portraits for our Chinese "wedding".....the only thing I have a problem with is getting Mama and Baba to allow me to spend the money for the party....I want it to be a nice one.....my "face" is at stake here also...lol.... It's still a long time to the visa....too damn long....I'll be seeing the family a lot on my next visit in May, so I will have a better idea of how things might go then.....I just want to be certain that they know how much I think of them....and give honor to her family.....so far they have welcomed me with open arms.....Mama is very happy...lol.... So, tell me what you think....oh, family is "city".....Zhouqing, about 2 hours from GUZ..... Many thanks in advance..... Steve

Maybe you could point her to the 001 forum, where she could talk with others in her situation.....just a thought.... Steve

Best wishes for a sucessfull interview tomorrow!!! Think pink!!!! Steve

Yes, my SO is doing this as well......as her sister told me a couple of days ago, "Aiwen is crazy for learning the English, she is working at it all the time." Side note: She already had a pretty good vocabulary when we first met, she studied English in secondary school and college. Her biggest complaint:" Hard to speak English in China, everyone speaking Chinese!" I was amazed how fast she improved in just the first three weeks we were together in China the first time we met in person....my Chinese got better too..... Not only did I hit the jackpot with a wonderful woman from China, I gained a great family as well. They are so welcoming and supportive, I am sometimes just overwhelmed...... Steve

My SO is getting tutoring 3 days a week...cost: 45 yuan for 2 hours....I've spoken to her tutor, an English major(pursuing a Masters) at the University in Nanning, she's very good....even has a good accent....I sent some $$ each month to cover this and a little extra for phone and internet costs....but she is making the money stretch very far...."Lao Gong, you no waste money!" is what I hear the most when I try to spoil her a little.....she says we need to save for our future together as a family......after my ex spent me into the poorhouse, this is a welcome wind! I did take her some Pimsleur CD's....English for Mandarin Speakers...she likes them, and uses them to practice between tutoring lessons....we also have impromtu English lessons on the phone and webcam....she learns really quick when I am over in China with her....she says I am "good teacher"....sssssssssss....that's the sound of me letting the air out of my "big head"......I for sure ain't teaching her to drive!!! That way lies disaster!!! Kind of like"The one who represents himself in court has a fool for a client!"....if you know what I mean..... Hope this helps. Steve

I dont understand why Dennis is the one who needs 'sensitivity' training. Is this woman not being insensitive and perhaps being a bit too judgmental? Maybe she owes Dennis an apology...Dennis really didnt do anything wrong in talking about his wife and wanting to be with her more...... it was her own response that was uncalled for. Maybe Dennis didnt respond properly, but I dont see her reaction that started the whole thing as being justified either. Perhaps if one should go to class, then they should go to the same class together. Good idea!!! Steve

If you really said this then yes, you need someone at HR to encourage your sensitivity skills. Generalizing, especially to such a negative is neither productive nor very smart. An apology to the women who heard that is appropriate. Ah, a graduate, I see ! It's to bad we don't live in a country that guarantees the freedom of speech to it's citizens. One where you can express your views without fear of reprisal from those who hold differing points of view. I remember a country that used to exist where people weren't forced to appologize for expressing their beliefs or opinions. It's even worse in academia...my ex worked at a local comunity college, there for over 20 years....a student(an older one, mid 40's) , kept "hitting" on her....she didn't give him the time of day, much less any encouragement....this pissed him off, so he files a "sexual harrasment" complaint....there ain't no witch hunt like an academic witch hunt...you would not believe the anguish and difficulties this created not just for her, but for me as well. And, according to policy, the complaint does not even have to be substantiated.....and the dude disappeared, never returned to the school....I finally found him working on a chicken farm out in the boonies 60 miles north of here......he settled out of court, the college offered a "letter" where no one admitted anything, yet it was placed in her personel file. Something is wrong when you can be nearly made into a criminal without trail, and no right to question your accuser. Sure, you can sue, but the state has infinite resourses.....we do not...we about broke even on the whole deal.....except for the pain it caused us. I am sick to death of political correctness and idiots telling me what I should think....sure, freedom of speech, let them talk all they want, but when they try to cram it down my throat I'm gonna bite their hand.....if you even offer an opposing point of view these days, you are immediatly attacked and branded a racist, bigot, conservative right-winger, leftist looney,...take your pick.....whatever happened to respecting another's point of view.....this is intolerance in its worst form....... Steve

Auchtung!!! Vere are your papers? It's the 21st century here in Georgia....they make the hard license on the spot with what I am sure are very expensive machines we all paid for....lol...did the DL examiner have on his jackboots? So, now they've gone from handing out DL's and ID cards to illegal immigrants to harrassing the crap out of those of us who followed the law to the letter? Go figure.... Steve

Hello All, I am planning to attend ACH in GUZ during my next visit in May.....if my SO goes with me, is there a place, waiting room, etc, where she can wait for me? I know she's not allowed to attend the meeting....I'm not sure she can even enter the Consulate unless she has business there.... Anyone know the answer? Steve

...so....I guess she will be getting a lot of couch time.....ha... ...sounds like fun! Steve

My SO and I went to one of these places in Nanning....same theme, strolling waiters offering various roasted meats on skewers......nice buffet, and only silverware on the tables...not a chopstick in sight....btw, my SO called this a BBQ resteraunt......it was very nice though....I almost poked myself in the face with my fork, I hadn't had one in my hand for almost 3 weeks..... Steve ( all the waiters had on Brazilian cowboy hats..... )

110 V. or 220 V power needed? Steve

I gave Baba a Gerber multi-tool.....he was delighted with it and wears it all the time....I think this idea of "proper" gifts varies greatly depending on the "progressiveness" of the receipients....I'm lucky in that my new Chinese family is very open and accepting of new ideas.....and me....I'm a lucky guy... Steve

I had several very similar encounters while visiting China in December...my first time in China...many kids came up to me to try out the English they learned in school....some were very fluent. Most of the adults said "Hello" in English, then continued in Mandarin when I answered in Chinese...I found almost everyone in Nanning to be very open and welcoming....I expected they would be more reserved, especially since I was with a younger, attractive(very attractive) Chinese woman....but our togetherness didn't seem to be much of an issue....I guess they all could see how nuts we were about each other.....people are people, wherever you go.... Being the only Lao Wei in the neighborhood, the neighbors and shopkeepers got used to seeing me every day for almost a month, and many times would smile or speak to me as I passed. I had a great time in China and look forward to going back in April for two weeks with the family in Zhaoqing(2 hours from Ghuangzhou). Steve

I've already learned all about Feng Shui from my ex...and she wasn't even Chinese!!! Feng Shui means"Put all your new Husband's crap in the garage!" Steve

She says Da means "big" and Bao means preciousness.....I have to laugh at introducing myself as "Big Preciousness"....although it humbles me to know she cares about me this much....I just can't say the name without breaking up into a big belly laugh.... "Big Respectful" or "Treasure" I could deal with..... Steve http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Records%20Page/album-preciouspup.JPG Thanks a heap, Curt....I'm gonna send this to Aiwen...what a hoot...where'd you every find that? Steve

She says Da means "big" and Bao means preciousness.....I have to laugh at introducing myself as "Big Preciousness"....although it humbles me to know she cares about me this much....I just can't say the name without breaking up into a big belly laugh.... "Big Respectful" or "Treasure" I could deal with..... Steve

Hello All, Aiwen and I have been discussing a Chinese name for me....she came up with this one...what do you think? Da Bao Means big, and something or other... Comments? Steve

Interesting idea.... I told my family I was going to China to visit friends and have a vacation, it was our first meeting and I wanted to see how things worked out...they worked out very well, as you see from my timeline..... Family did not object to my visiting China, but were a bit concerned because it is on the other side of the planet and IS a Communist country....still a lot of Cold War thinking and lack of knowledge about modern China...no children, so that doesn't apply to me. Too soon to tell about the acceptance....although my younger brother is married to a Japanese/American....and they welcomed her without a qualm...of course, she's a jewel and they see how much they are in love with each other... Recommendations: Make up you own mind, live your own life...you are the one taking this plunge into a cross-cultural relationship, yes, they will learn some new things as well, but it is you who have to make the effort if you are to have a chance at a real marriage. We all have a lot to learn about our SO's and her/his culture and belief/philosophical systems. Love will "grease the skids" but you still have to put something in to get anything out....know what I mean? It's not all take, you have to give as well. I find myself being much more thoughful and considerate of my SO, just because she is that way with me....I never got this from Western women....at least not on the level I am experiencing with my Chinese SO. I like it....and I like the effect it is having on my life. Steve

WTF? What did I say that was uptight? I did not say I never imbibe. I said I've never been drunk. Did I criticize anyone with different habits than mine? I'm not a prohibitionist. I think weed should be legalized. All I said was that I had no interest in any of that for myself. I most certainly did not say anything to suggest my preferences were better or should be adopted by anyone else. Are you, my friend, projecting???? (gawd I hate psycho-babble...) I used to have a t-shirt that read" Man made booze, God made weed, trust in God and save your seeds!"...back before I realized the shirt was an open invitation to any Barney Fife to shake me down..... I agree, legalize the weed and use the taxes for treatment of addiction....take the criminal element's profits out of the equation just like the end of Prohibition did.... I think I need to drag out my DVD of "Reefer Madness" ---an excellent example of American propaganda produced by Hearst, leading to the passage of laws criminalizing weed....it's really pretty funny, but it scared the bejeesus out of the straights in its day.... Steve (I know, off topic!!!!)

Feng Shu.......means put all your husbands crap in the garage........ Steve

That's great news Mike...St. Louis is a fine city with a great baseball tradition...Texans are just so full of themselves it's a wonder they don't just float off into space from all the hot air... Geezs "Thanks Roggie" for saying those nice words about us Texicans! But in Tejas not many folks get dropped on there head, when they was a baby well maybe...."Expect Doug." LOL When I lived in Houston, I heard it said that Texans were just immigrants that ran out of money before they got to Okalahoma.....we're all immigrants here in the US, except for the Native Amercians among us who we shafted out of their land, killed off, etc....why do we still have a Bureau of Indian Affairs? Because once established, a government bureacracy is like kudzu...ya just can't kill it off....and it grows like crazy...chokes out everything else....and is full of insects and other annoying critters.... Steve