LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD

[hypoclear]

Ok.. just jumping back in on this thread.

 

Where do we stand? Trigg sent out the snail mail to Harty and she has it for sure.. I copied that letter and added an intro to it along with my sig page and emailed it to both my Senators, Kennedy and Kerry as well as my congressman. So those issues are covered.

 

Now this thread is about what issues? and has everyone sent the other letter by email out? I will keep sending emails and expand the list of people I will send too as long as the issues are new and dovetail with previously sent ones.

 

HUH? What I mean is this is great and we should continue to write, but lets not wear out our welcome so lets make sure each one adds to and explains further the issues we want addressed.

 

hmmm master of the obvious aren't we??

 

Mark and Bea and Elizabeth

[jtaylo69]

Ok, Ok, Class, Settle Down!! Trigg? I have a Mop & I'll use it!!

 

Ok, after re-reading a few concerns & getting a couple of emails in regards to other types of Visa out there. Several of you have asked just how in the heck can my Ideas work for you ?

 

Well, in this world, since we do not live in Perfect, & Wallgreens is not our home, all I can do is present to you my tacticks in hopes that if you play it out right,, they will work for you too, because so far, they are woking for me.

 

I Just love watching the big boys squirm

 

Hmmm,

After doing some conciderable thinking, Here is what I suggest, as most of these I did myself & I now have many people on their toes. Some of which have asked me to retract some of my quotes of their direct words, in exchange for them assisting me. (Yeah Right, when Cows fly)

 

I would begin in making a huge note book along with an index at the beginning, followed by coresponding tabs for each section. Each section would be like a book's chapter if you will.

 

Next, I would orginze it into logical order, Starting with how & when the two of you met.

 

Next, a section that contains a copy (or orriginals) of all of your forms & request documents from NVC or any other agentcy. (Make sure they are in sequence on when you obtained them)

 

Next, a section for plane tickets along with Iteneraries. (Again, In sequence)

 

Keep doing this for everything that you have to show as proof. (Including every single Chat session that the two of you had on both Yahoo, MSN, ICQ or what ever) Again, in sequence. If you are like us, we currently have well over 12,635 pages, in which we have right at 3, three ring binders full and starting on a 4th

 

Once you have all of your documentation in order, You are ready to begin the fight. Yes, I said FIGHT!! It will not be easy and it will not come to you, you have to go to it.

 

Begin by making sure that you have ALL OF YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!! KEEP THEM THAT WAY!! Very Important that you do;)

 

First, contact your Govonor and ask them just what the heck is up. This kind of delay is all uncalled for and that there has got to be a better way. If you have voted for them, make sure that they are aware of that, and request their help.

 

If you do not get any where with that, go directly to their local office & demand that you get some kind of answers. (Keep a small hidden tape recorder handy & record everything. This will help you later)

 

If you still do not get any reasults, next go to your congressman, & do the same exact same thing as you did with your Govonor. (Again, keep detailed records, save everything, and record everything)

 

If now resaults, go to your senator. Exact same thing.

 

If still no resaults, then it is time to begin the Fight!!!!

 

Contact every single News Paper and television station in your state. Find out just how to get your problem heard. Many News papers will sell you a colum or two so you can vent your voice to the public. (Be Very Careful of what you say & how you say it. When you begin to talk about poloticians, always remember these are glorified lawyers that just love to use loop holes to justify their actions) When you quote them, be sure to use their EXACT WORDS from the tape recorder. Be sure let the public know Both Sides HONESTLY.

 

Do this with about 3 or 4 Well Circulated news papers & then sit back to see just who is willing to try & call your bluff, or so they think. Once you have them on the line, You will have the chance to show them your proof as well as any other number of proofs from other people. When they come to you & try to give you the choice of "I'll see what I can do if you will write a retraction to your statement" you just tell them, that first, they need to show you since they are the so-called big player on the block, that they can get your process moving in the desired direction. If not, No deal. If so, You will, but that you will not lie for them or anyone else. You would however be willing to write about your experiance working with them on your case & provide an inside look as to how well you felt that they handled your case.

 

They may gruff, bite, and maybe threaten, but be sure to let them know that all of the evidence that you have, there are to other copies being kept safe, should anything happen. & until you achieve the resaults you are looking for, everything will be documented to the letter, just as you have upto this point. This will get them to see that you are willing to play hard ball & that you are not a mouse in the corner wating for someone to toss you the cheese. Instead, you are the rat that can help them to return to their unglorified hole in which they came from, should they choose not to play fair.

 

I know that this may sound a bit like vigilantee, but hey, when it comes to a mans family & their well being, don't go walking into his house unannounced & jut take his last beer, because then you just might find yourself in a position that you didn't count upon ;)P

 

Hope that this helped

[ChadinSJZ]

Wow, this is really cool getting these responses.

 

I'm from Arizona, and I'll be more than happy to lend my voice, name, etc to anything I can do to help anyone else who is caught up in a mess like this.

 

I do sympathize with the workers in our consulate, and no I haven't met them yet, but in many cases workers simply have to follow rules that just don't make sense, and I'm sure they feel like a policeman my mother knows who says that he hates talking to people because he knows a good portion of them are just lieing to get by. It might not be so bad in immigration, but let's face it - there must be some people sneaking by the system in order to make it the way it is. I'm sure no government body said "hey let's just make this cruel and random in a way that's sure to offend people for no good reason". So I don't want to bash the staff or the process unduely.

 

That said, it really seems like there's a fine line that's being tread these days, the line between a government O.K.ing you to love somebody and protecting itself. I'm all for immigration control, especially in our increasingly xenophobic post 9/11 America but there has to be a limit and the due process should certainly include such things as reasons for denial after an acceptance notice is given, or the ability to appeal. In an ideal world the government should work for the people and part of the global melting pot that America claims to be should be a lot more understanding in it's immigration regulations, especially considering that for first world nations, we probably have the largest percentage of our citizenry who's never left our own borders.

 

It also strikes me that some of the stories of the GZ consulate are a bit out of hand. I've heard stories of people being asked really strange questions like what color toothbrush does your SO have, even though the SO lives in the states, and not in China so such information wouldn't really be common knowledge for the SO to have. I can't tell if these are true, made up, or simply blown a bit out of scale, but why are we paying for an agency that's making such a large percentage of us unhappy? It's not just his board, but it's so many message boards out there that have very little nice to say the GZ consulate, even after the VISA is issued.

 

Now in their defense, I've dealt a lot with the Chinese government, especially the police in my time her in Hebei province, and they are anything but hard working or efficient. In fact, I'm stunned they solve any crimes, or get any work done whatsoever. I know that at some level they're asked to verify if the SO has any criminal history, and I'd wager going from one of these places to the next to track things like this down is just a massive undertaking and for those of you who have never dealt with Chinese officials who have jobs that are almost impossible to be fired from (due to lack of work or being inept) it's almost impossible to believe - but trust me, I've lived here for almost a year and a half now and I deal with gov't officials on nearly a daily basis.

 

So some of these delays might be caused by this, but my suggestion is to take the bulk of the work that's being done in the states now and expand our embassy force. How much more convenient would it be to have the workers here in country? They don't have to worry about leaving messages and playing phone tag overnight. They will get a much better understanding of the way things run out here legally.

 

I remember a great case where a foreigner was out here teaching and in his contract they initially said he'd be getting 1/2 salary for the summer months. Then a few months later (Right after May day last year) he went to talk about the summer travel allowance and saw that one of the pages in the contract had been changed w/o his knowledge and now his summer pay was limited to no salary and simply a 1000rmb bonus to last him 2 months or so. Of course he wa a bit peeved, and hadn't been saving his money so he spent a few weeks trying to get ahold of this foreign affairs officer, whom I happen to know through his wife who works for a friend of mine out here, and after buying him a dinner, some smokes, etc. thought it was all set. Well the FAO gave one call to the school, got a short runaround, and never tried again so the man got screwed out of his summer salary. I can totally see similar things happening with our process out here because such a thing wouldn't be very common in the states. If I called some government officer, and got a comitment of action and nothing happened and it turned out it was just due to horrible ineptness and lack of interest I'd be outraged. But it's quite common in many parts of China and it's just not something people who live and work in the states doing our immigration background checking might understand until they've really gone through it or seen it first hand. It's just off the wall.

 

So let me stop rambling and sum it up:

 

I don't know anything first hand about our consulate, but I have not heard too many nice things, and certainly nowhere even close to as many bad things as I've heard about them. I'm a bit scared to try to bring my fiance over because of the whole system.

 

Should I feel this way when I'm not doing anything wrong, and I'm paying for this system that I'm scared of?

 

I honestly don't think this should be the case, and like I said I can totally understand the need and interest in security, but what's going on with the whole system here just seems like it's got a few screws loose someplace and I hope one of these government officials can bring it before the right body to have someone look into it and iron out these kinks in our system. I honestly don't think anyone in love should feel intimidated by their own government like this, and it really stinks of some strange cold-war-esque xenophobia that shouldn't have any place in any modern first world country

 

I'll leave you with that and like I said, I'll be contacting my gov't officials and let me know if there's ANYTHING I can do. You guys are a great community and this issue does need resolution.

[markimwaiting]

MAN, you new folks are tougher than I was, lol

You all do need to work as a group, there is power in numbers and frequency. Hammer those Bas%%$&'s, they work for us.

 

From what it looks like, the process has changed but has not got streamlined in GZ, if it still takes 14 months.

 

This should not be tolerated.

 

Write the letters, call your Congress, Senator, the DOS, General Accounting office ( they have to account foe all Gov actions and laws)

Ask to speak to Harty.

[jtaylo69]

I've also found writing a editorial columb in the local papers seems to work a few wonders

[ptcrusier333rph]

HEY trigg any response from the letters?

 

 

Robert

[MikeXiao]

I am on board. We need to be heard. What can I do to help? Just name it. I have written both of my Senators (no response) and Maura Harty ( I will have one of my assistances investigate this immediately).

 

WE need to be heard.

[AZwolfman]

The letters DO get read, I think! How's this for sick irony?

From the time I started the process until the day she arrived in the USA took 1 and 1/2 years total. During that time I called, faxed, emailed or wrote to everyone I could think of - including President Bush.

 

About 2 months after she arrived I got a letter from one of the State Dept. staff, saying they would look into it. About 6 months after she was already here, I received a reply from President Bush's office, saying he would look into it.

[jtaylo69]

LOL,

 

I would write them both back telling them sorry, to little to late. & thank God the world was not in crisis, as by judging by their extreamly slow responces, we would be in one hell of a fix.----Oh that's right, we already are. God, why are we paying them or putting them into office for? To look Pretty? if so, It is a whole lot cheaper to buy flowers to look at than some ugly mug. At least the flowers will be cheaper & hey, at least with them, we could come out smelling like roses

[jtaylo69]

Hi All,

 

I thought I would pass this info on as I feel we Just Might Have a True Shot of having our Voices Heard, NATION WIDE, on NATIONAL TV!!

 

I recieved a letter form the producers of 60 Minutes this morning and they expressed intrest in our story. They mentioned that, for ALL of those this Visa Process is affecting, if they will submit to them, IN WRITING, their individual Story along with their Address & a day time phone Number, upon after propperly assessing the issue as a whole, they may have, as a collective, have enough information to do a complete segmant to inlude on one of their shows.

 

People, I do not care if you had a final good out come, or what ever. If you had any kind of problems through any of this process, for you SO's Sake, Write to them. Incude you full time line to show as probable proof, include a copy of anything that you feel will help support your story.

 

My guess is that should they decide to air this on National TV, then more than not, they will be wanting to interview a few of the most compelling stories.

 

Do I Need to say More??

 

I Would Hope NOT

 

Here is their Address:

 

JEFFREY FAGER, Executive Producer

MIKE WALLACE, Co-editor

 

 

60 Minutes

C/O CBSNews.com,

524 W. 57th St.,

New York, NY, 10019

[pingme]

I've just returned from several weeks with being with my fiancee. Still a little jet lagged, but I'm trying to catch up on all the threads since then.

 

While I was there, I had the "opportunity" to visit the consulate and enjoy their "US Citizen's hour"

 

To say the least, I was not impressed with the consulate, the security, the information that was given. The room we were in, seem to have water marks all over the ceiling, as if it had leaks or something, and the treatment given to me, as well as the other US citizens was not very nice.

 

While I was there, I thought, I wonder if Mrs Harty had ever been there? And if so, what did she think? If she has not been there, one suggestion would be to have her send one of her aids "undercover" just to see the place for themselves.

 

Do it measure up to how a US consulate should be run?

 

If we have a chance for national news, such as 60 minutes, I would also suggest that we suggest to them, that they go and visit the place, witness the treatment and facilities for themselves.

 

Let's put the spotlight on where the problem lies. That will make them feel uncomfortable, and they won't be able to sit idle or in the incompetency much longer.

[Mengxin]

I've just returned from several weeks with being with my fiancee. Still a little jet lagged, but I'm trying to catch up on all the threads since then.

 

While I was there, I had the "opportunity" to visit the consulate and enjoy their "US Citizen's hour"

 

To say the least, I was not impressed with the consulate, the security, the information that was given. The room we were in, seem to have water marks all over the ceiling, as if it had leaks or something, and the treatment given to me, as well as the other US citizens was not very nice.

 

While I was there, I thought, I wonder if Mrs Harty had ever been there? And if so, what did she think? If she has not been there, one suggestion would be to have her send one of her aids "undercover" just to see the place for themselves.

 

Do it measure up to how a US consulate should be run?

 

If we have a chance for national news, such as 60 minutes, I would also suggest that we suggest to them, that they go and visit the place, witness the treatment and facilities for themselves.

 

Let's put the spotlight on where the problem lies. That will make them feel uncomfortable, and they won't be able to sit idle or in the incompetency much longer.

From the video clips I saw of hypoclears films it looked like a high school gym locker room. nice confined area with very small windows and very crowded. Sounds like the place is run like a lavoritory. go in, do your business and get out. try not to step in any dooky on your way out.

[Cody]

What a nice way to welcome folks to America.

[hypoclear]

Hi All,

 

I thought I would pass this info on as I feel we Just Might Have a True Shot of having our Voices Heard, NATION WIDE, on NATIONAL TV!!

 

I recieved a letter form the producers of 60 Minutes this morning and they expressed intrest in our story. They mentioned that, for ALL of those this Visa Process is affecting, if they will submit to them, IN WRITING, their individual Story along with their Address & a day time phone Number, upon after propperly assessing the issue as a whole, they may have, as a collective, have enough information  to do a complete segmant to inlude on one of their shows.

 

People, I do not care if you had a final good out come, or what ever. If you had any kind of problems through any of this process, for you SO's Sake, Write to them. Incude you full time line to show as probable proof, include a copy of anything that you feel will help support your story.

 

My guess is that should they decide to air this on National TV, then more than not, they will be wanting to interview a few of the most compelling stories.

 

Do I Need to say More??

 

I Would Hope NOT

 

Here is their Address:

 

JEFFREY FAGER, Executive Producer

MIKE WALLACE, Co-editor

 

 

60 Minutes

C/O CBSNews.com,

524 W. 57th St.,

New York, NY, 10019

J do you have an email address for them?

We are here in China but want to get this to them sooner.

Thanks

 

Mark and Bea and Elizabeth

[jtaylo69]

So far, all I have been able to find is their snail mail.

 

Sorry