pingme

I just noticed this article on the Guangzhou website: http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/guangzhou/niv/#svgz It seems from this that every Thursday will be reserved for Students getting visas: Starting Thursday May 12, 2005 every Thursday through the end of the summer season will be reserved for students (F1,F2, J1,J2, M1,M2) holding private passports. It is not bad enough that the average waiting time for a student visa is only 15 days (I assume that includes all the necessary background and security checks to make sure that no student is a terrorist) and now they will reserve a whole day just to process these student visas. I sure hope the move to the new offices will help make the K1 and K3 visa processing times much shorter.

I was just going to suggest the same thing. We should all write to Ms Harty and ask what is going on. I would hope that if the consulate in Guangzhou is doing this, that she would be aware of it and had approved it. We should point out to her: - Why has an extra 3 days been added to the already year long visa process? - Why cannot the visa and passport be picked up the same day as the interview as someone already suggested here. That would certainly simplify the process and speed things up. - Have they accessed the risk of theft now from the postal system. As someone has already mentioned here the value now of a passport with valid entry visa to the US must have a pretty high value on the black market. I am sure it would not be too difficult for someone to swap the photo and gain the a quick and easy entry into the US that way. Talk about an open door for terrorist to exploit! - Reliability of the Chinese Postal System - Is this now a standard procedure that will be implemented across all consulates issuing visas? Or is this just some brilliant idea of someone in Guangzhou that has yet to prove to work? (any other logical reasons we see why this could be a negative change?) In short, why does Guangzhou always have to be so counter productive, slow, inconsiderate to us American Citizens towards our loved ones?

so the old procedure was to pick up your visa the following day. the new procedure is to wait 3 days and hopefully pick it up at the post office? and what happens for those white slips turned blue? do we now have to wait 3 days to learn if we actually get the visa, or a blue slip? i see this is a step backwards, adding more delay, adding more middle men to handle our vital documents. i keep wonderful why the consulate in guangzhou does everything possible to be counter productive! but then i guess i might be asking too much of them. asking for a bit of common sense and profesionallism, especially for such vital things that affect the most important part of our lives.

I can see your point. Things are different in China, and maybe this sort of treatment can be considered more common or normal there. But the US consulate in China should be working and operating by US standards, treating other people with the US sense of human rights and dignity. The workers at the consulates are ambassadors in a sense of what is American, just as we are when we are in China. The Chinese people learn about the US how Americans treat them. At a minimum, I would think the consulate should provide a "waiting room" for those who are waiting for visas, etc. This would seem to be the least they could do.

I think the consulate in GuangZhou must have its own "work ethic" if one can call it that. I cannot think of any other business or government office here in the US, that would ask people to wait outside for anything, and then hours later, tell them that everyone in the office has gone home for the week-end. My own opinion about the consulate in GuangZhou, is it treats people in the most demeaning, degrading and unprofessional manner I have ever witnessed. If this sort of thing happened in the US, if it were a company, it would be out of business in no time, and if it were a government office, there would be complaints and protests all around. But that is only my personal opnion. I am sure the people at the consulate in Guangzhou don't have any problem with asking people to stand for hours and then later tell them they have all gone home for the week-end.

I can understand a busy day at the office, but to leave people stranded outside of a US consulate, to me, is a national disgrace! I am also worried that when the new offices are opened (rumor has it on June 25th?) then the confusion and dis-organization will get even worse. So maybe we need to prepare our SOs for this. Book extra days at hotels just in case, and leave extra time for any return flights/trips, etc. I notice that in the information sent from the consulate says not to make any flight reservations, etc, before the visa is actually received. I can see now this means that for some people, it means standing out side for an unknown amounts of time, even days! When I was in Guangzhou it was also raining all day. As far as I can tell, leaving people outside is no way to treat the citizens of any country at the any consulate.

It is good to hear a story of an applicant prepared for the worst, and able to handle it! As for this VO, I would also suggest a letter written to Mrs Harty asking for some answers and action. First, they should be able to track down who this VO is, name etc. For those who have been to the interviews, do they give out their name? or possible wear a badge or something showing who they are? let's records these peoples names down, and make notice here and with Mrs, Hardy who are the professional ones and who are the jerks. Second, it should be pointed out to Mrs Harty as well as our senators and representatives, as well as the president of the US, that these workers are there to perform certain functions. Those responsibilities include, checking documentation, to make sure that all document requirments have been fulfilled, and second, to determine if the relationship is valid and as stated. Their third task is to ensure that no terrorist obtain a visa. I can't imagine a terrorist trying to go the K1 or K3 route, since it takes so long, a 15 day student visa seems to be the way most of the terrorist use to get into the country. In no place is it said that they are to make fun, be disrespectful, degrade to de-humanize the applicant or the petitioner. If Mrs Harty or others do not believe that such actions are really taking place, then i would suggestion to her that they should install video monitors and microphones on the interview locations. This would certainly remove any and all doubts, and would also cause the VOs to perform their jobs with more professionalism. More and more I find myself saying I am sorry to my fiancee, for incompetencies of the people I am paying to allow her to come here so we can be together. It is really a shame, and a disgrace to the US.

I've just returned from several weeks with being with my fiancee. Still a little jet lagged, but I'm trying to catch up on all the threads since then. While I was there, I had the "opportunity" to visit the consulate and enjoy their "US Citizen's hour" To say the least, I was not impressed with the consulate, the security, the information that was given. The room we were in, seem to have water marks all over the ceiling, as if it had leaks or something, and the treatment given to me, as well as the other US citizens was not very nice. While I was there, I thought, I wonder if Mrs Harty had ever been there? And if so, what did she think? If she has not been there, one suggestion would be to have her send one of her aids "undercover" just to see the place for themselves. Do it measure up to how a US consulate should be run? If we have a chance for national news, such as 60 minutes, I would also suggest that we suggest to them, that they go and visit the place, witness the treatment and facilities for themselves. Let's put the spotlight on where the problem lies. That will make them feel uncomfortable, and they won't be able to sit idle or in the incompetency much longer.

Way to go Carl!

I am in China now, visiting my SO. I received this reply to my question about when the American Citizen hour is. I will go this friday, and see what its like. The website said Monday 3-4. I just wonder now if their email reply was up to date or if it is still another day. ===================== From: Guangzhou, ACS [mailto:GuangzhouACS@state.gov] Subject: RE: Re:American Citizen Hour - Confirming day and time The citizen hour for immigrant visa is on Fridays, which starts at 3:00pm. Please arrive 10-15 minutes earlier and ask security guards for admission to IV unit for information session. It is only available for U.S. citizens. American Citizen Service Unit This email is UNCLASSIFIED based upon the provisions of E.O. 12958

I find the following necessary qualifications rather interesting, and a bit amusing: - Familiarity with fraud patterns indigenous to China. - Management will consider nepotism/conflict of interest, budget, and residency status in determining successful candidacy. - High school graduate. i have never heard of a job positin taking into account nepotism! www.dictionary.com has as its definition: nepotism: 1) Favoritism shown or patronage granted to relatives, as in business. 2) favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power (as by giving them jobs) So if I read their job requirements I get the impression they want a high school graduate, who is familiar with the various ways to do things illegally in China. I am sure they could find such applicants cheaply at the local prison. But i guess those are the ones who got caught, and they are only interested in the ones who have been able to evade the law, or know how to scratch the local police backs. The comment about nepotism, i really cannot figure out. Does it mean that you will get the job if you are a close friend of someone in management or does it mean that you will be considiered for the job if you can arrange for nepotism (getting favors) for the job assignments that you will be asked to do? either way, this confirms my theory, that the legal sharks that are "working" outside of the embassy to help all those poor souls who get screwed are in fact sustained and profit from the "workers" or i should say the incompent workers within the embassy. it is also interesting, that we as US citizens are required to prove beyond any doubt a bonafied relationship with our loved ones. we are in fact assume guilty of visa fraud unless we can prove otherwise. but we are to view and assume that every Visa Officer is absolutely honest and fair, especially in the face of so many cases where they have not been. in my mind, they are guilty of incompetence, lazyness, and in working together with the outside sharks, until they can prove to me otherwise. i can also see why Guangzhou wants to keep all the immigrant visa business for themselves and not allow the other consulates in on their racket. They have such a successful business with the local sharks, why would they want to give that up, or spread the wealth around the other consulates?

I received today a second reply from my second email letter to Maura. I have included the text of the reply below: =================== United States Department of State Washington, D.C. 20520 March 14, 2005 Dear Mr. XXXXXXX: This is in response to your email of March 1 to Assistant Secretary Maura Harty regarding the immigrant visa application process at the U.S. Consulate General in Guangzhou, China. I have been asked to respond to your inquiry personally on her behalf. The Assistant Secretary appreciates the hardships endured by both the visa applicants and their families due to the current limitations placed on the Guangzhou Consulate General by its current location. A new larger facility is in the works right now, and the Consulate hopes to take up residence there in the near future. The current lack of space is the main reason U.S. citizen petitioners are not allowed into the K1 and K3 interviews at this time. A change in policy will be discussed once the Consulate is relocated into the new larger facility. I understand your frustration at the processing times involved in the visa application procedure. The Department of State strives to provide a high level of customer service. However, we must work within budgetary and personnel constraints, which at times can impact our ability to deliver services. We are aware of and regret the many inconveniences this has caused our visa applicants. You mentioned a situation in which the visa applicant initially received a "white slip" saying she would be given her visa then next day, but, instead, returned to the Consulate only to be given a "blue slip" and told she would given another interview date at a later unknown time. I checked with the Consulate in Guangzhou and was assured that this happens only infrequently and that there is a message on the "white slip" stating: "Should complications beyond our control arise with visa processing, the above-mentioned date for receiving your visa may be delayed." This message is included to let the applicant know that the "white slip" is not an absolute guarantee that the visa will be issued on the date given. A possible complication would be if there is any delay in receipt of any necessary security clearance, the consular officer has no choice but to delay issuance of the visa until all the clearances are complete. I hope this information is helpful. Sincerely, June O'Connell Chief Public Inquiries Division Visa Services

I thought I would start a thread to collect any replies we have recieved from Maura or others about the state of things in Guangzhou. Today I recieved a reply and have included it below: ==================== United States Department of State Washington, D.C. 20520 March 14, 2005 Dear Mr. XXXXXX: This is in response to your email of March 7 to Assistant Secretary Maura Harty regarding the immigrant visa application process at the U.S. Consulate in Guangzhou, China. I have been asked to respond to your inquiry personally on her behalf. The Assistant Secretary appreciates the hardships endured by both the visa applicants and their families due to the current limitations placed on the Guangzhou Consul General by their current location. A new larger facility is in the works as we speak and the Consulate hopes to take up residence there in the near future and more space allowing for more personnel will help alleviate many of the current problems. I understand your frustration at the processing times involved in the visa application procedure. The Department of State strives to provide a high level of customer service. However, we must work within budgetary and personnel constraints, which at times can impact our ability to deliver services. We are aware of and regret the many inconveniences this has caused our visa applicants. You mentioned that you don't understand why student visas are processed so much more quickly than K1 and K3 visas. In this case, the difference is that which lies between a nonimmigrant visa and an immigrant visa. For, while K1 is a nonimmigrant visa to allow a fianc¨¦(e) to enter the U.S. and get married to an American citizen, it leads to full immigration. Likewise, the K3 is a nonimmigrant visa that allows the spouse of an American citizen to enter the U.S. and wait there for their immigrant petition to be completed. What all that means is that the processing necessary for K1 and K3 visas is more like that of an immigrant visa instead of the nonimmigrant student visa and, it simply involves more steps and procedures which take more time. I hope this information is helpful. Sincerely, June O'Connell Chief Public Inquiries Division Visa Services

i would be curious to know if some of these "third party vendors" are on the consulate preferred vendor list of legal advice in town. i would not put it past some of these people to have connections with people inside the consulate. if you check the consulate website today: http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/guangzho...ou/cg/jobs.html these job opportunities consulate workers only require a high school education, and can be local chinese people or US citizens. i wonder how many chinese high school graduates would not be tempted by helping to hinder or push through some papers for a few extra hundred buck a months? that could be more than their full time salaries there? and how can anyone at the consulate ever know or check up on it?

i think if some one wants to include personal comments or personal details of their own cases in their signature letter, that should be fine. the signature page basically says that you agree with our comment point, and if there are others you would like to include, then those are your personal points that you wish to mention to her.

just a comment about the process or procedure for sending. i still think it would be much more effective and simply for each person to print, sign and send a copy themselves to Maura, as well as their own senators and representative. and email copy to them would also be effective. and i would not forget the president of the United States. I don't know how skeptical these people might be, but it would be too easy for 1 person to include 100 fake signatures. but it would not be possible for one person to fake sending letters from 100 different post offices in the US and to CC or send a copy to those senators and representatives. if you need to find the address of your senators, here is one link that i think they can be found: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_info...enators_cfm.cfm most of them i think by now have their own websites where you can get their address and send email. this site seemed to have both senators and representatives addresses for each state. http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ i don't think the letter needs to be word for word the same, what we have so far is good enough to go. if you want to include more of your own person details, either good or bad, that would be appropriate too. I get a feeling that Maura is a personal type of person, so to include "feeling" in the letter i think would be a good thing.

yeah, now if i can just learn to read chinese! thats my second highest priority now until i can be with my fiancee. at least it will keep me busy and hopefully safe from going insane maybe i am already past that point!

i like boba's latest revision and the suggestions aftewards. i think we are close. warm up those printers, and lick them stamps!

wow, i just checked the list of items on the pink slip - voter registration card - bank and credit card statements - phone and utility bills - canceld child support checks - verify petitioner's ex spouses address - notarized photo of petitioner holding news paper with dateline legible, and submit the orignal news paper! they must be kidding to require all of that for some cases! thanks for the link. this should keep me busy gathing more papers for a while!

Hank, your revisions look good to me. i think using the same terminology as she has used will help her understand better. as for the phrase: > Please consider the petitions of US citizens for their loved ones to be at least of equal priority as student and business petitions from Chinese Citizens. you are right, a better way to phrase it would be: > Please consider the visa petitions of US citizens for their loved ones to be at least of equal priority as visa requests from Chinese student and business people.

i have tired to revise the letter to fit it into one page. here it is just over 1 page if you include the PS section below. If you do not include this, you can probably fit it in 1 page. if all those who have agreed with the issues were to print it out, and send a copy to their Maura, as well as their senators, representatives,the President, and the other consulates in China, i think we would be heard. if you don't agree with an issue, or if you want to add one of your own, then by all means. and if you can include your own personal case or story that would be even more effective. ================== Secretary Maura Harty: I am writing to you as a member of “A Candle For Love” (CFL), a growing online community of nearly 2,000 law abiding, taxpaying U.S. Citizens. We are joined by the common bond of a lengthy and unpredictable wait to receive immigrant visas for our wives, fiancés and children. The purpose of this letter is to address a few of the current immigrant visa processing issues at the American Consulate in Guangzhou. These issues have caused unnecessary hardships for us and our families. We ask that you take a moment to read our honest and concise assessment of the current situation and that you consider possible solutions. 1) Wait Times for K1 & K3 Visas: The wait time for the K-1 Fiancé Visa and K3 Visa is among the longest in the world. Our members wait an average of 13-months without a good reason or understanding why it takes so long. We ask that you please investigate and help us to understand this situation, especially in light of the fact that other countries, such as England and Canada, are able to process visas of this type in much shorter time, typically 30-45 days. China has the world’s largest population. Is it time that a country of this size and importance has more than one consulate to handle immigrate visas? Canada has two such locations. You recently spoke in Beijing about the improvements in handling Student and business visas from China, with over 180,000 student visas per year typically processed and issued in a matter of days or weeks. Please consider the petitions of US citizens for their loved ones to be at least of equal priority as those from Chinese citizens. 2) Denials without appeal: Many of our members are being denied visas for no apparent reason. They are denied and not allowed consultation with a member of the IV Unit to resolve these denials, or to know why they are being denied. Please work to correct this situation. 3) White Slips changed to Blue Slips: There are a growing number of cases where white acceptance slips are being given to the wife or fiancé of a U.S. Citizen immediately after the interview, only to receive a blue slip the following day, and the visa denied — without explanation or consultation. Please do what you can to ensure that the initial decision remains until the visa is given. Again these cases directly affect the lives and future of US Citizens and their loved ones. These items are simply a few occurrences we wish to bring to your attention at this time. The US consulate in China is US soil. Please help to ensure that everyone who enters is treated with the basic human rights of dignity, respect, and non-discrimination that is fundamental to our way of life. We are not asking for any special treatment, just the same consideration, care and service that anyone requesting a visa in China would and should expect. Thank you for taking the time to hear our concerns. Respectfully, The Members of CFL. PS: I have forwarded a copy of this letter to my local Senators and Representative to help resolve these issues. A copy is also being forwarded to each of the consulates in China, to make them aware of the issues and hopefully they can work together to improve the service we receive. Again I would like to congratulate you on the improvements you have been able to accomplish in allowing Chinese students and business people to obtain their visas, now I hope we can expect the same for US citizens waiting to be reunited with their loved ones.

i think everyone who is willing, should print and mail their own letter. at a minimum, to the following people: - Secretary Harty - Your 2 senators in your local state - your local representative - the President of the US it would have a bigger impact if the letters came from around the country, just just from one person or state. also reference in the letter, that you have sent a copy to those other people. someone may think it is just the drinking water that has caused someone to be sour. I would also recommend sending a copy to each of the consulates in China (since the problem is within their systems and control, and ability to resolve).

so the system works! you just have to know what the system is.

this is an excellent suggestion. i for one will donate money to such a fund. not only to lobby to change things, but also to help those who get screwed by the system. King, would you like some money to help those that are helpless there? you seem to be a honest person working locally on these issues? this week-end i should have some time, i will try to review the letter as it exists so far. (where in for another snow storm in the north east! ) my suggestion, once it is finished, is for each person to print a copy and sign it and mail it themselves. i think this would make the greatest impact. i letter can be ignored, maybe 2 or 3 but if Maurty gets 10-20-50 letters, then it will be harder for her to ignore each of them. and if you include that you have CCed your senators, representatives, then i think it will make a greater impact. and i think this can't be just a one time thing. anyone can turn a deaf ear or blind eye for one letter. but if the letters continue to come in each week, asking for answers, requesting proper or fair treatment, then i think we will eventually get somewhere.

some questions: i have no idea what the legal rights of a US citizen in a foreign country has in his own consulate. maybe someone with more legal background can answer these: - in these cases, isn't there any sort of local appeal that can happen before everything is sent back to the US? - you would think if the US Petitioner is present, and all the documents are present, that it would be simpler and cost less to review it on the spot. - can they get their senator's involved? before everything is sent back? - as a US citizen at the consulate, can he refuse to leave until he speaks to someone higher up and gets a reasonable answer? - the consulate is US Soil and refugees from other countries can seek sanctuary at an embassy, can't a US citizen seek some kind of protection at his own consulate? - i thought i read someone that there was an appeal process that is available, before someone else just decides to send everything back to the US? - not even knowing the reason for the denial seems wrong to me. they are in effect saying, your request for the visa for your fiancee has been denied, but we won't tell you why, we won't tell you how to resolve it, and you will have to wait months (6 months) before you can get any answers. my suggestion, is to go to the consulate, and not leave until you have an answer.