hypoclear

I don't believe there IS any answer. People are just speculating on a closed system. A thought ran thru my mind regarding all of this. Rumor and grapevine chat is very very strong in China. Many people take advantage of this insecurity and the constant unknown, just view the many many helpful people around the embassy who will HELP fill out your paper work for a FEE. I personally wouldn't trust them and if it were an issue for my SO I'd download the forms, fill them out and mail to her to re-fill them out in her hand writting. You need some insight into the culture also. It is an authoritative one where by people are treated harsely and with whim by officials, GZ works this way, which I know from experience in person. Or rather the immigration / visa section. Go to ACS as a citizen and after your SO has her visa and it is a very different experience. I believe it is a detterent or at least that is part of the reason. Believeing that if you do things correctly etc etc and it will all work out is I think a mild form of blaming the victim. Number one few people ever do something like this so newness is a problem, number two the people and organization in charge of this process have more experience and have a wider broader view of the process. CFL is putting the peices together each day and still hasn't gotten a complete picture of it and most likely never will. Lastly I think it is just a control issue in that one can feel they are in complete control, by dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's. While this may be comforting to people and give them security it may also lead to frustration when that plan doesn't work out. But no real harm done. It is just a long hard process but alot easier with the help and support of the members of CFL. The truth is, you will get your visa, I think we have only seen 1 or 2 cases of no visa if that. I think there was one sent back to the states recently so it is still undecided. So I guess each takes their comfort where they can and helps in their own way. This might be the next most valued thing you will learn after your SO. Don't give up, have faith and look to your future! If more of the Old Timer's were here they'd tell you in a minute how when you hear those words.. "I have my Visa." The weight is off and the past is but a memory, in an instant B) Mark

Money... money at the beginning, the middle and the end, it's all money. Remember you are going to a country where they counterfiet 1RMB coins which when I was there were worth $0.12 cents. I have heard of people buying american ciggs just so they could split the pack in half I.E. use 10 american ciggs add 10 of theirs, re-package and sell as american ciggs at hired price. My wife does packaging design and one of the important things is to make sure that once a package is opened it can never be reused. I could go on but the idea is as others have said, watch yourself. You will be asked to do more and more with no extra pay. Find a place that has lesson plans already, no need for you to do that and basicly build thier business for them and low wages. Try and find and American or Canadian school to start with. Also try private classes, I used the New York Times on line for some of my students, etc. Remember!!! you don't have your money until it's in your pocket and spent! Hook up with some good people, watch out for the nutty ones and enjoy. I taught young childern and teens, which I enjoyed as they are experiencing a new and more open China but still have alot of the traditions of China, so if you can engage them in the class you will gain their respect. Also remember these kids are puting in sometime 50 to 60 hours a week on thier studies!! You can see where they are going to want to slack off in english class, but again child enjoy fun. Mark

It's very difficult to have meaningful discussion when meanings are turned around. Lack of preparation is the most common problem for visa denial. That does not mean that prepared people don't get blue slips. It's apples and two by fours. Removing the biggest obstacle to ANYTHING is NO GUARANTEE of achievment. It's just the removal of an obstacle. Preparation is not a guarantee. Lack of Preparation is the MOST COMMON problem. Neither statement contradicts the other. Both are true statements. 238560[/snapback] glad you back tracked on that one. Prepared.... Carl had a folder big enough to rate it's own seat on the flight over! In order, alphabitized, tabbed and color coded. I think it was 4 to 6 inches thick but ask him. We did the how ever many minutes video and if I'm correct the paper work wasn't looked at the tape tuyrned in the day before and a short question answer period and Bing had her visa. I'm going with the keep people off balance, treat them like their country men in public service jobs do. We have first hand personal experience of this. etc. Mark

It is frustrating and unknown as to why people are given blue slips. In the case of Carl and Bing, who Bea and I met and got to know in China. A 5 minute interview of Both of them together with a deaf mute who was blind in one eye and he could tell these two can communicate! I believe in Hong Kong this is the case, both are interviewed if both are there. A five minute or less interview in my view doesn't really say much, I think it would be hard to no, the results are not pre-determined or rather flagged in some manner. I.E. every thing looks ok with paper work, put in the quick confirm, some questions regarding paper work etc. question regarding these issues, and perhaps paper work or other red flags set off, question this and blue slip. Lastly is this the case and real way GZ operates? I have not idea or a clue just a dumb. stupid quess. Sorry to say you just have to deal with the frustration, know it WILL pass and your SO will get that Visa! P.S. Bea and I waited 19 months and that was with a congressional expidited visa interview. I just saw someone here on CFL from the VT service Center with the same CR1 9 months start to finish! DAMN!!!! somebody likes you.. congrats and good on you!

As for divorce in China. In SZ area it takes one month. File papers pay a fee come back in 1 month, maybe pay a fee, (Why not, new day new thing, you pay! Chiney way ..) Than you could go with the fiance visa. Seems like there is no record in CO? but I'm not a lawyer so don't know what to say on that score. Mark

This is why I like this site.... it's a celebration!!! and it's not even my birthday, it's not even my day. It's all about you and your wife and daughter!! Congrats and thanks for letting us share more happiness in the world... It's a celebration... will there be dancing in the streets? Mark

It's great reading thru this thread. Hey... so what do ya say we all run down to the local chinese take -out..? hehehe Bea and I are here in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NY so we can run around the corner and get all our veggies, fish and meats. We were just talking about that this morning as I went out to go shopping at the big western stores... "Don't forget to get some meat." Naw.. get it at the chinese market." you can't buy the cuts of pork any where else but there. Bea is a Cantonese girl so soup is one of her best dishes. How you can take a pot of water, add a few things and end up with such a flavorful broth!.... She did try making some once in a western pot... not good. So I guess it is really having the right tools, clay pot and the know how that does it. I too love Hot and Sour soup but she doesn't make it. lucky for me we have found a couple places that I enjoy. Another is Beef and White Carrot, (Daikon?), but so far she hasn't been able to find the right beef and has given up on it.. but how we have pork and white carrot! Fresh veggies!, chinese egg plant and all the greens, so gentle as she says. I like that the cantonese cook light on sauces, etc. She really liked my cooking while we lived in China and I had fun working with the wok, so she doesn't cook as much here. "Your's aways tastes better... which translates to "Huh! are you dumb... I'm not going to cook if I can make you do it." I introduced her family to mashed potatoes and cole slaw and a few other dishes which the loved, but she said even thought her mom watched me she wouldn't make it.. There are many more, I enjoyed such as noodles and this hot spicey pork, Hunan style. We were so lucky in Shenzhen, we could eat from all over China and as I said reading this thread reminds me that China has a very wide and as someone mentioned and long tradition of cook. Sad that chinese means take-out to most people. Mark

I think part of the issue with Japan and China is economics, Japan is slowly losing it's number 1 position in Asia if it hasn't already and china is raising to the centering influence. The issue of the waris just a galvinizing topic for the people,just as say the 4th of july or a parade with flags.. I.E.flag waving will rally Americans of all stripes. Than you have Taiwan and China another "Topic" for discussion as is Hong Kong.like most any developing nation you can relay on your people and institutions to research and move you forward or you can relay on others... HK and Tawain are very useful to main land China and any thing more than sabar rattling would defeat their ultimate perpose...to gain knowledge to view and learn, to trade. Lenova buying out IBM's laptops which was over priced was as much for the access as it was the knowledge.. marketing, western culture, distrobution etc etc.Tolearn all this on your own would take many many years, asonly recently have the new generation of China'syouth gotten the benefit of an education and perhaps a western one at that. Mark

Getting a visa is a hurdle. I'm about to find out how difficult it is for me to get a D-visa. Or we could just change our last name to something that ends in "ez". 225610[/snapback] In Shenzhen at least, I didn't have trouble working at teaching english. I had been there for along time and my tourist visa had expired but Bea and I were married. So either every 3 months and sometimes 6 months I'd head down to the security building...don'tremember the real name but behind the Di wang building and get a new visa. You can also go to HK and buy a multi entry visa for 6 months orperhaps 1 year. Things may have changed but if you research the expat boards you should get up to date info. The market could be flooded for teachers but there are also private students and many on-line resources for lessons. City book store in Shenzhen had an english schooland they would pay for someone to do an english corner... I.E. speak on a topic of your choice for an hour or so. Sorry to hear of the people you met... one other piece of advice.. as of the day you enter China you are the proud graduate of which ever college in what ever program... yes it islieing but it certainly is magnatudes less than what is passed off over there. Good luck and remember money and small money makes China go round.. only there wouldsomeone conterfit 1 RMB coins which at the time were about $0.0825 cents.. hehe Mark

Hi Moon, Questipon #3.. wedding photos... I'll help you out and send you the two we had taken by the official who gave us our Red Books and oh yes.. aq cup...you know the ones so thinly plastic you wonder how they can hold hot tea and next how you can hold the hot tea in the thin cup ones.. That and a lot of chit chat by Bea and her and bam! we are married. P.S.I am a photographer and as I siad two wedding pics in the official's office..so much for generalizations. As for the pro question...hmmm, nope but with the screwing we have been getting from you it sure feels like it.. except no pay sigh .. Hope this is the end of it for you both as you are just a month ahead of us... 12/12/2002 wedding day... remember it coz the 13th which was the original date was a friday!!

Dennis you win the prize! I get this also and also wonder WTF haven't you ever heard of logic, common sense etc etc and than I realize nope she hasn't sigh As for Doctors in China, everytime I was sick we went and saw them and this ran from colds, bronchitus, to bells palsye from our return trip there, and a few other things. In Shenzhen at least I got very good treatment and all meds I was given I googled and...yup right on just what the Doc ordered, chinese or american. I did know another Brit expat who broke his wrist in a football (socor can't even spell it) game. He had it looked at in the UK and it wasn't set correctly as he had numbness. But this sounded like a slightly unusual medical need and yes in-experience perhaps on the Doctors part, hardly a voodoo, rumor, uneducated way to view the world. Carl as you were saying many other husbands report the same thing.If this is true it brings up a wider issue of education. If a person doesn't have the skills for critic thinking there is going to be a ceiling on what the know and can learn. With that it may be easier to govern a society, but this one in particular is 5 times ours and has less developement. Is this a chicken and egg issue? It has only been in our life times that the great push forward and Cultural Revolution came into being and failed leave China with few if any educators and perhaps a generation or two who didn't have a chance at education. Just rambling...but in the end yeah it's a pain in the ... Mark

I wonder about that "good husband / bad husband etc." Is it just a language issue or is it what they actually think? By this I mean if their world view is black and white, this or that, there leaves little if any room for doubt or complexness. I have also heard they, making a generalization here, are more rooted in concrete thinking and have little abstract thinking skills. I know for me explaining much beyond pouring a glass of milk to SO is torture, exageration here, but in many conversations beyond routine ones she totally misses the point and many times is angered or upset. I was very interested in the, what ever I said while in China was incorrect etc but if the same thing was said by others.. well hell's bell's if that ain't the truth! very frustrating. I think this goes to the clanishness and superstitiopns many exhabit For me at times this whole cultural issue is a pain... than I realize how much language is about agreance between the people speaking and a shared social /cultural background.So much is said that isn't spoken and you aren't left to double back in conversation to help the other person understand what you said or stop to try and figure out what they ment. I.E. "See the game? Yeah, so and so sucked!, they got to bring in fresh blood... etc etc.. Just about any guy can fill that in and have a conversation with only those words.. good lord what an evening of.... that would be with the SO. Mark

I'd have to say I agree with you. After living in China for 3years, where TV is censored as is the paper. Although I was able to read on line most all newspapers from the states and even watch ABC and NBC evening news on TV the next morning. I noticed how commercilized it had become. Bea my wife said only a few nights ago... geeez the news is so narrow,nothing about any place in the world except the USA. I have to agree, having that take on the daily world events from many different viewpoints,like we had in China was a realeye opener. Now after being back in thew states for close to a year I don't notice as much the constant selling to I recieve, the narrow view points and selling ofnews and the daily paper is a record of gore and sensation...of course I could cough up the extra 75 cents a day and read the times. But I guess just as I used to marvel at the fact that a country with 1.3 billion people and a huge manufactorer of shoes still made crap ones, you'd think they could make the best by now with all the experience! It just says there is a market for crappy shoes and it seems one for crappy news in the states as well. Mark

Hi Frank; What I can tell you from experience is that, Bea and I were married and living in China and had been married for just over 2 years when she first intered the USA at JFK. Her visa was a CR1 at the time she recived it in aug, married 2 years dec and POE in Jan of the following year. We did the I-130 ? visa not sure on the number so long ago. The office at JFK made a notation on her paper work and on her actual Visa that she would be given an IR1 green card rather than the CR1, ( Conditional residency) that she qualified for at the time of her interview, (Aug.) So I would assume and you know what that means.. your wife would also be given the 10 year permenant residency IR1 Visa. I can also tell you that if this is the case, have her ask the official to make a large notation, marked attention etc etc.in her paper work. As Bea is still waiting since this Jan for them to clear up the mistake of sending her a CR1 green card when she should have recieved an IR1. Mark and Bea and Elizabeth

While you have heard many things, they are first and foremost accusations which are incorrect. Secondly they were made by a known trouble maker who has been booted from candle more than once and this person's idenity has been varified. Thirdly this person posted a PM from the mod to him in a public forum. While I questioned this person in this forum repeatedly it was his choice to answer. While we have taken the time to apoligize for this behavior and will not let it happen again we would ask that people of questionable intent be removed at our request so that there will be no future need for such displays. Mark

WOW!!!! tremendous work!!! and I know that isn't spelled correctly also. The rest of you LISTEN UP.. this person is very lucide and is more than on the right track.. he's a freakin high speed locomotive. Your anayliss of the system is spot on as I have heard this from two government sources just these last few days. I would hope that people can see and understand the benefit verses risk reward in becoming active. With our numbers and that kind of determined consistant attack.. they will fall. Mark

What Frank said.. and I'll add, contact your Congressman and ask that they look into this for you. It seems most all have contact people with the State Department and 6 months is indeed a long wait. They most likely will not be able to tell you what who or where the name check is, but certainly they can verifie that the P3 was recieved. As always polite, persistant, badgering will in the end get you the info.. Mark

Great congrats... I see you both are not wasting time to be together!!! way to go, best of luck. mark

Well Carl... you have the honors of pinning this, your first. awwww and he's soooo young and looks soooo cute, don't forget your safety as this is your first time. Mark

Posting here as I can't find the correct thread... Has Ms Harty responded to our group letter? Mark

I called CBS last night and got an email address. Sent off our story about 7 pages worth only 3 or so writing the rest email and docs. The woman I spoke with said about 4 to 6 weeks to hear back from them. Mark

JAL (Japan Air Lines) has them on the long leg from the states to Narita. Mark

If you and yours make it to Shenzhen.. give a shout! Best of luck and great info.. Mark

One other idea is to make this video tape with your videoa camera and than have the tape converted to NTSC video tape format. There are many places that do video taping and dubbing houses that can do this for you... it is simply a price issue. Call a wedding photographer and ask where they have their tapes duped if they do video also or ask them if they know of a videoagrapher. Also you have it correct.. you have to show communication. Carl and his wife Bing, sat at a table with that days english langage newspaper.. showed it to the camera and beganing speaking to each other in english. Bing had her electronic translater and Carl had his laptop. There hands were in plain sight thru the whole thing and if she didn't understand a word he explained it. They spoke of everyday things, friends they had in common, I think, kitchen re-modeling plans etc etc. YOU.. DO NOT!!!! have to speak Chinese.. you only need to demonstrate that you can comminicate to each other. Best of luck. Mark

The biggest problem we have had in GZ is in the shopping district and pickpockets. First time I felt a slight tug at my back, thought nothing of it as we were in a crowd. Later that night at the hotel, Bea noticed a nice clean cut in my backpack, nothing was missing. a second time while in a different area.. we were looking at some stuff on the tables on the sidewalk, when we left Bea again noticed my fanny pack was unzipped, again nothing missing. I do know as she pointed out how to spot them here in SZ at the bus stops. They are usually the only ones with a coat or jacket drapped over their arm on hot days. as you board the bus they come up behind you and jussle you while picking your pocket, they can alkso be on the busses and work in teams. Mark