Is China and India to blame for the energy crisis and global warming?

[Guest Mike and Lily]

The US media, the US government and even President Bush try to blame China and India.

 

I took a closer look at the numbers. Here they are:

 

US crude oil consumption = approximately 21 million barrels per day

 

China " = 7

 

India = 5

 

China + India population = 35% of world population

 

US " = 4.5% " "

 

When we crunch the numbers , we end up in the following:

 

When 1 person in China uses 1 gallon of crude, 1 person in the US uses 145 gallons of crude oil, on the average!

 

When 1 person in India uses 1 gallon of the crude, 1 person in the US uses uses 170 gallons of crude, on the average.

 

What do you think?

 

Ken 88

 

Crude oil consumption is only 1 card in a deck of 52 (54 if you count those pesky jokers). I couldn't really tell you who has the better, or worse hand. But I know there is definitely a difference when I breath the air in the most rural city of China, compared to the most densely industrial of the US. I hate to point fingers, because I think we are all at fault, but for those that do, maybe they should look at what they are doing before they judge others. Or maybe they should come up with a solution, rather than just presenting the same problems over and over again.

 

Crude Oil consumption is but a small issue in the global warming senario. You also must take into account factories and electricity production. China uses many coal plants to produce electricity and their factories spill carbon dioxide and other ozone killing gases into the air. Now, is this worse than America or not, how can anyone be sure? Don't forget scientists have been known to argue amongst themselves and change their minds. They produce facts that are backed by mere speculation and educated guesses. Once they get new information, they change their statements to reflect the new facts. Also, how can we blame China? Who is buying the products built in their factories. If we stopped buying their products, they would stop making them. So how can you really blame any one country? We all got ourselves into this mess. We should work collectively in finding a way out.

 

The one country I do credit in this area is France. They have been using nuclear power plants to generate the majority of their power for decades. No greenhouse gases, no global warming. There is not much else I like about France, but this is one job that they've done right!

[rogerluli]

The US media, the US government and even President Bush try to blame China and India.

 

I took a closer look at the numbers. Here they are:

 

US crude oil consumption = approximately 21 million barrels per day

 

China " = 7

 

India = 5

 

China + India population = 35% of world population

 

US " = 4.5% " "

 

When we crunch the numbers , we end up in the following:

 

When 1 person in China uses 1 gallon of crude, 1 person in the US uses 145 gallons of crude oil, on the average!

 

When 1 person in India uses 1 gallon of the crude, 1 person in the US uses uses 170 gallons of crude, on the average.

 

What do you think?

 

Ken 88

 

Crude oil consumption is only 1 card in a deck of 52 (54 if you count those pesky jokers). I couldn't really tell you who has the better, or worse hand. But I know there is definitely a difference when I breath the air in the most rural city of China, compared to the most densely industrial of the US. I hate to point fingers, because I think we are all at fault, but for those that do, maybe they should look at what they are doing before they judge others. Or maybe they should come up with a solution, rather than just presenting the same problems over and over again.

 

Crude Oil consumption is but a small issue in the global warming senario. You also must take into account factories and electricity production. China uses many coal plants to produce electricity and their factories spill carbon dioxide and other ozone killing gases into the air. Now, is this worse than America or not, how can anyone be sure? Don't forget scientists have been known to argue amongst themselves and change their minds. They produce facts that are backed by mere speculation and educated guesses. Once they get new information, they change their statements to reflect the new facts. Also, how can we blame China? Who is buying the products built in their factories. If we stopped buying their products, they would stop making them. So how can you really blame any one country? We all got ourselves into this mess. We should work collectively in finding a way out.

 

The one country I do credit in this area is France. They have been using nuclear power plants to generate the majority of their power for decades. No greenhouse gases, no global warming. There is not much else I like about France, but this is one job that they've done right!

 

I think this 5 dr. C3, now available in China, is way kewl...

 

http://i35.tinypic.com/esn483.jpg

[rogerluli]

The US media, the US government and even President Bush try to blame China and India.

 

I took a closer look at the numbers. Here they are:

 

US crude oil consumption = approximately 21 million barrels per day

 

China " = 7

 

India = 5

 

China + India population = 35% of world population

 

US " = 4.5% " "

 

When we crunch the numbers , we end up in the following:

 

When 1 person in China uses 1 gallon of crude, 1 person in the US uses 145 gallons of crude oil, on the average!

 

When 1 person in India uses 1 gallon of the crude, 1 person in the US uses uses 170 gallons of crude, on the average.

 

What do you think?

 

Ken 88

 

Crude oil consumption is only 1 card in a deck of 52 (54 if you count those pesky jokers). I couldn't really tell you who has the better, or worse hand. But I know there is definitely a difference when I breath the air in the most rural city of China, compared to the most densely industrial of the US. I hate to point fingers, because I think we are all at fault, but for those that do, maybe they should look at what they are doing before they judge others. Or maybe they should come up with a solution, rather than just presenting the same problems over and over again.

 

Crude Oil consumption is but a small issue in the global warming senario. You also must take into account factories and electricity production. China uses many coal plants to produce electricity and their factories spill carbon dioxide and other ozone killing gases into the air. Now, is this worse than America or not, how can anyone be sure? Don't forget scientists have been known to argue amongst themselves and change their minds. They produce facts that are backed by mere speculation and educated guesses. Once they get new information, they change their statements to reflect the new facts. Also, how can we blame China? Who is buying the products built in their factories. If we stopped buying their products, they would stop making them. So how can you really blame any one country? We all got ourselves into this mess. We should work collectively in finding a way out.

 

The one country I do credit in this area is France. They have been using nuclear power plants to generate the majority of their power for decades. No greenhouse gases, no global warming. There is not much else I like about France, but this is one job that they've done right!

 

I think this 5 dr. C3, now available in China, is way kewl...

 

http://i35.tinypic.com/esn483.jpg

 

http://i36.tinypic.com/111mbfk.jpg

[david_dawei]

the west is great at twisting stats... it's kind of a patent on deception so that other countries get blamed for what we've created over the last 100 years...

 

If you look at almost any stat on a per capita basis, as the OP did equalizing it down to 'per person'... the US is TOP DOG... China and India fall way down the list.. I've posted some of these per capita stats before but think some of it was in the BB so it's gone.

 

The US will continue to deflect the reality of this by arguing total consumption or total use.

[Corbin]

the west is great at twisting stats... it's kind of a patent on deception so that other countries get blamed for what we've created over the last 100 years...

 

If you look at almost any stat on a per capita basis, as the OP did equalizing it down to 'per person'... the US is TOP DOG... China and India fall way down the list.. I've posted some of these per capita stats before but think some of it was in the BB so it's gone.

 

The US will continue to deflect the reality of this by arguing total consumption or total use.

Don't you know David the US of A is the great white knight here to save the world......

 

So what if we burn a few billion gallons of oil to do it or is that a few trillion of gallons.......

 

We called dibs on the dark horse and it's ours for now......

[tsap seui]

I think Corbin is the cause of the energy crisis!!! My Gawd, the boy needs his own oil well.

 

I don't have any stats to back that up...then again, I'm american, I can simply speculate and conjecture them stats up as I go.

 

I'm tellin' ya...IT'S CORBIN'S FAULT!!!!!

 

tsap seui

[david_dawei]

ok.. found one of my past posts with links to graphs...

 

Per Capita CO2 - 1997

http://www.tamug.edu/labb/images/97%20CO2%20per%20capita.gif

 

Per Capita CO2 - 2000

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/emissions_of_co2_per_capita_1990_selected_countries/emissions_of_co2_per_capita_1990_selected_countries.gif

 

 

Per Capita CO2 - 2003

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/national_carbon_dioxide_co2_emissions_per_capita/web_national_carbon_dioxide_co2_emissions_per_capita.jpg

[Corbin]

I think Corbin is the cause of the energy crisis!!! My Gawd, the boy needs his own oil well.

 

I don't have any stats to back that up...then again, I'm american, I can simply speculate and conjecture them stats up as I go.

 

I'm tellin' ya...IT'S CORBIN'S FAULT!!!!!

 

tsap seui

No problem there buddy I'll be all so happy to take the fall. Got to keep the top secret Armor design facilities going 110% or the bad people out to get us will win. Even if they are all total fiction brewed up in the backwoods around the still.......

 

two thumbs up.......

[jim_julian]

I think you ought to move to China, Ken ... with a fall back of India ...

[Maxal]

OK I guess this not a political thread!

 

I am one of those that sit on the fence about this. We can argue this from many angles. Such as:

 

America puts out more CO2 / person vs. China has 4 times the number of people.

 

Brown smog is gone from USA (except LA) vs. sorry I would not wish to breath the air in Beijing.

 

If you remove cars for the discussion America is very efficient at using energy and has very tough laws on what comes out of them.

 

America is a very young country that really has no history compared with Europe, China, India. Because of that peasants farmers where able to get a large piece of land just by building a home on it. I know my grandfather got a land grant in South Dakota at the turn of the century (1910 time frame). The majority of our forefathers and mothers move to the country when they arrived here. Why so they could own land and lots of it. Something that was just a dream in Europe. I live in an apartment complex that I know our friends from China would not believe are apartments. Why I only have 12 units in my building, not 300 ~ 500 or more.

 

If China and India continue to expand their industrial output at their current rate they will quickly outstrip USofA in what goes into the air. Everyone seems to forget that very simple fact. They are building factories, cars, etc. while we are not.

 

The major difference is the US industrial revolution took close to 150 years to get us to this point. It took Japan about 50 years to catch up to us. It took Korea about 30 years and now I expect China will take what, maybe 20 years.

 

The newly industrialized countries do not have time to watch the land scape turn into the "Love Canal" or into LA in the 70's where the sun was always orange. To them they see jobs, output, wealth and brand new buildings. They do not see the waste land that was Cleveland with Lake Erie on fire or the idle steel mills in PA that are rusting away with good knows what chemicals in the ground causing all those oh so pretty mud puddles of blue, green, pink, red... They do not have a reason for the environmental movement to take hold....yet.

 

The reason you manufacture in a low cost country is be cause it is cheaper. Where does the savings come from, yes labor, but also not having to follow all those pesky health, safety and environmental regulations.

 

I just hope that the newer countries really take a good look at our mistakes, some of which were not mistakes at the time, and try not to repeat them. A good example of a god send which turned out really bad was asbestos. When that was commercialized it saved uncounted lives from fire. If your parents are around 70 or so they will remember this miracle solution to stopping fires from starting is schools, factories, department stores.....

 

Sorry all, off the soap box now.

 

One last item for thought. In the history of the world as we know it now, the world was very hot and dry or very, very cold more often than it has been comfortable like now. I do not think the final word is out on what is causing this.

Edited July 11, 2008 by Maxal (see edit history)

[georgeandli]

As Americans we have developed to a standard of living the rest of the world wants to attain. World view has been shaped by movies and TV. Regardless of the fact they don't see the warts. What works here doesn't necessarily work in other countries. Back to the old Roman Empire, Bread and Circuses.

[tonado]

People who drive SUVs and gas guzzlers should be blamed for energy crisis and global warming. If we all car-pool or take public transportation to work, then we would reduce the energy crisis and global warming.

[Corbin]

People who drive SUVs and gas guzzlers should be blamed for energy crisis and global warming. If we all car-pool or take public transportation to work, then we would reduce the energy crisis and global warming.

Well since I have no choice about public transportation (Not available), nobody to car-pool with (only one on duty at the time I work) and I can't afford to buy another car to replace my gas sucking 5.7L V8 Tahoe SUV then I guess I'm to blame.......

 

Then again the big gas sucking car are only a small part of the problem.

[pbatt]

To me it is a collective of all countries. Indonesia burns so much rain forest, yet refuses to sign a treaty to stop that, all other countries signed long ago.

Many days in Singapore I could not see the sun at mid day because of all the smoke.Which I feel is the cause of the eye problems in Singapore now.

 

Lake Superior is in danger of mass pollution and it holds 1/9 of the worlds fresh water.

The culprit is our own government. Many of the barrels of toxic waste dumped years ago are rusting out and our own government will not admit what was put down there.

[eseum]

"I am one of those that sit on the fence about this. We can argue this from many angles. Such as:

 

America puts out more CO2 / person vs. China has 4 times the number of people.

 

Brown smog is gone from USA (except LA) vs. sorry I would not wish to breath the air in Beijing.

 

If you remove cars for the discussion America is very efficient at using energy and has very tough laws on what comes out of them."

 

Yes America has very tough environmental laws. Unfortunately those laws do not curb CO2. We still burn a lot of coal in this country. In fact coal is still King when it comes to power. Regulations take out particulates and some other nasties that burning coal creates. However, we have still not found a way to remove CO2 from coal burning plants.

 

Burning coal produces the highest amount of CO2 of any energy source. It goes Coal, Oil and Natural Gas in terms of CO2 output per kilowatt of power produced.

 

We should be looking at tripling our solar energy production each year along with wind power. This should not only be done on the large scale. There are currently better designs for wind turbines which do not use the large towers and blades. These newer turbines can actually be placed on buildings and produce power at even low wind speeds. We should also be encouraging the use of solar panels all over the SW for individual homes.

 

We need to make it extremely conducive to companies to do this. I am not a big fan of taxes. However, I do believe that an incentive could be made on oil companies to invest very heavily in alternate fuels. A threat of a windfall profits tax unless a certain amount of money is invested each year might be a good carrot. In the event that they pay the tax then those dollars should only be earmarked for energy production or building a new infrastructure to go to an alternative fuel like hydrogen. The infrastructure could be built by letting contracts to companies that want to build and operate the new system. They would then pay taxes once a profit is being made.