001 Digest, today and yesterday

[vince]

Very interesting thread indeed! 

 

I agree that in American culture, most financial matters simple aren't discussed in polite conversation.  However, I feel that it isn't just a cultural issue, but a personal one. 

 

I know some people who feel extremely uncomfortable discussing finances with anyone, even family (this includes in-laws, especially prospective in-laws!).  I know others who feel quite at ease discussing financial matters.  Within reason of course!

 

Personally I don't have a problem discussing my financial situation with my fiancee or her parents.  I see their questions as legitimate concerns for their daughter's well-being.  I'm just an average middle class working guy with a mortgage and a car note. 

 

They know that I am not rich, and will never be.  But, they also know that I have a good job, and can provide a good life for their daughter.

 

Open honest communication is always best.

totally agree. no matter where you are, money is just important.

[Charlotte]

Very interesting thread indeed!  

 

I agree that in American culture, most financial matters simple aren't discussed in polite conversation.  However, I feel that it isn't just a cultural issue, but a personal one.  

Within reason of course!

.

totally agree. no matter where you are, money is just important.

Individuals make a culture. You may not mind sharing your financial info with families; how about just average friends -- it is very normal even among friends asking about how much do you make. Money is important -- but it is irrelavant as to whether it is a proper manner to ask about it in a certain environment. Some Americans are willing to share about this, but they are not asked to share!

[owenkrout]

Another point here, that I am sure Charlotte will agree with, is that from the Chinese perspective, the father in law would have been remiss in his filial duties if he did not ask those kind of questions. In fact, from their viewpoint, not asking would cause his daughter a certain loss of face. It would indicate that he did not care enough about her to be concerned about such things. Her not answering him directly would in turn cause him to lose face as it would indicate that she did not value his oversight and opinions.

 

The cultural interface is a really complex one here. In many ways the two cultures are almost exact opposites of each other. It can lead to great difficulties or to a greatly enriched life for both of you. The decision is up to you.

[Guest Snowbeast]

Well,  she already knows I guard my privacy in some areas.  I do not tell anyone  all of my finances and such. We already had some of this converstaion before, and she currently claims that she does not even want to know about them.  If she does now ask about them she also knows she is not to tell others, so if she then tells someone she is breaking her word.  This has made some things harder,  as now I have started to put together a 'emergency' envelope, that would tell her what to do to be able to keep paying the mortgage and such if I was in a coma or worse.  I figure at least the first year she needs enough insurance on me to be able to pay off the house and live without working,  even if she would then probably head back to China.

 

As for being interviewed by her family,  I have doubts I will ever meet them, and even if I did I would not be able to talk to them.

Have you ever been married before?

[floyd]

Well,  she already knows I guard my privacy in some areas.  I do not tell anyone  all of my finances and such.   We already had some of this converstaion before, and she currently claims that she does not even want to know about them.  If she does now ask about them she also knows she is not to tell others, so if she then tells someone she is breaking her word.  This has made some things harder,  as now I have started to put together a 'emergency' envelope, that would tell her what to do to be able to keep paying the mortgage and such if I was in a coma or worse.  I figure at least the first year she needs enough insurance on me to be able to pay off the house and live without working,  even if she would then probably head back to China.

 

As for being interviewed by her family,  I have doubts I will ever meet them, and even if I did I would not be able to talk to them.

Have you ever been married before?

No,but I feel this is a red herring. I am aware this is an area that needs communication between the members of the marriage and did so before we married, and we reached our agreement.

[floyd]

day-to-day relationship -- we need to learn to adjust and respect each other's culture -- do as the Romans do --is the best advise to give you.  Like Owen, who is China, he has to air his financial laundries to his in-laws before he can even think about marrying their daughter.  When you are in this country, you better adjust to the culture here a little -- DO NOT ASK ABOUT THE COST OF A CAR, HOUSE TO A FRIEND OR EVEN  A FAMILY MEMBER -- they will tell you if

My wife does not know the phrase yet, 'do as the romans do' , but it applies well in this case. She definatly knows the concept. She has already said she 'must adapt to my families ways', as she will live here, and at time seems to tease me by mocking the accent in this region, but she says it is just so she will blend in better etc.

[owenkrout]

Good chance that it only appears that she is mocking the accent. Since the Chinese language is tonal, they tend to assume that it is critical to pronounce the word exactly as they heard it. The fact that we will use stress for emphasis tends to confuse them. If she hears the accent around her she will try to emulate it and the tendancy usually is to almost overdo it.

[floyd]

yes they earn some good salary now. but they have experienced the hardships when they were young.

Being a Chinese myself, i know this is more of a culture than money itself. My daughter's generation has never experienced any proverty -- that does not change the habit. Chinese like to save for a rainy day by nature -- the household savings in this country is tremendously compared to the income they have. So asking cost -- comparing price -- before they start shopping!

I know my wife says I am too frugal at times. I save between 40 and 50 percent of my income. I do not pay for cable, a cell phone and things like that currently. When I have a large expense I am saving for I will keep the heat at 60F and such. At times she says I am being too concerned about savings.

 

I think another issue that may come up is the idea of sending money to ones parents. She sometimes mentions this idea, and my inclination is that if they did not save enough, we should set up a trust rather then sending them the money directly so they can not just spend it all at once, since they may be bad at budgeting and savings to not have saved before,.

[owenkrout]

She was their retirement plan. That is the way it works here. They spend freely on their children and count on them to see to their needs in their old age. In fact it is the law here that children are responsible for their elderly parents. She is just being properly filial.

 

Give it some real thought. A hundred a month could make a huge difference to an elderly couple in China.

[floyd]

She was their retirement plan.  That is the way it works here.  They spend freely on their children and count on them to see to their needs in their old age.  In fact it is the law here that children are responsible for their elderly parents.  She is just being properly filial.

 

Give it some real thought.  A hundred a month could make a huge difference to an elderly couple in China.

Yeah, I plan to. It just seems these types of discussions are very hard to hold when 8K miles away. That should be over with soon, and then I think after a few months these topics should become more of a dialouge with the ability to see each others eyes etc.

 

Of course I doubt she will ever let me meet her parents.

[Guest enight]

I would shed some light on this cultural difference in the new forum PJ set up someday when I get my baby settled here.

Well, one quick note here is: Chinese are very keen to know the cost of everything - regardless of whose it is.  I bet all of your Chinese partners will ask you:  "how much is it?" everytime time you buy or bring something home.  Being in this country so long, I became quite westernized in the respect.  During my last trip in Shanghai, everytime I paid for the dinner for my family of 10 in a restaurant, my mother would always insisted on my showing her the bill, so does everyone else.  I felt so bad, but I understand this is in China!  So in your day-to-day relationship -- we need to learn to adjust and respect each other's culture -- do as the Romans do --is the best advise to give you.  Like Owen, who is China, he has to air his financial laundries to his in-laws before he can even think about marrying their daughter.  When you are in this country, you better adjust to the culture here a little -- DO NOT ASK ABOUT THE COST OF A CAR, HOUSE TO A FRIEND OR EVEN  A FAMILY MEMBER -- they will tell you if they want to know!  It is difficult at the beginning to hold off those kind of curiosities, but you will get used to it and you better get used to it for you to be able to get accepted in the social environment.  There are many indirect ways to find out about the price, of course, but learn to avoid this direct question, this includes your American spouse.

absolutely! Charlotte JJ,

 

everytime I get together with my friends or even people I don't know too well (can be neighbours etc), we would share information on what kind of things we bought, how much it cost, how's the salary, bonus... etc... my parents do the same way to their friends, colleagues, neighbours

 

and... if I didn't ask my friend this kind of thing, it would sounds like I didn't care about them.

 

(of course I wouldn't ask if I have known they wouldn't happy to tell the information)

[Guest enight]

I think another issue that may come up is the idea of sending money to ones parents.  She sometimes mentions this idea, and my inclination is that if they did not save enough,  we should set up a trust rather then sending them the money directly so they can not just spend it all at once, since they may be bad at budgeting and savings to not have saved before,.

not many parents in China would ask their kids to support them in finance

 

...to support the parents is a moral thing sometimes, as here parents would do their best to support the kids... spent all their money and energy to educate the kids, later support the kids's marriage, and helping raising up the grandkids... what they ask for is nothing but their kid's happiness.

 

I often seen parents here sitting in KFC with their kids while their kids were eating the chicken stuffs, the parents just enjoy in watching and were satisfied, the picture was a very sad scene to me, but I can understand them.

 

Like my mom and father, they are very stingy in the way I look at them, but when they support me and my sister, they never calculated their money.

 

so... if the parents don't have saving for their age care, that may not cause of they are bad at budgeting and saving.

[chinadave2001]

In my WASP family, money matters/salaries/etc. are NEVER discussed. They are only indirectly alluded to, and there will usually be whispering done. My mother might lean over and whisper," Your sisters doing pretty well. She just got a promotion." The meaning is clear but not announced in any fashion. I think that this way of thinking goes all the way back to the early Protestant traditions in Europe where, while it was ok to be wealthy, and such wealth was seen as sign of God's favor, you should not display that wealth openly. While this is not the norm any more in America, I think that for many people finances are still held pretty close to the chest.

dave

[Guest vivien]

Thanks, Owen. It does make sense in my case. I was so frustrated that I don;t know how to deal with the culture gap btw my dad and my honey since I myself just started to overcome the gap btw me and Dave. While my family is a very traditional one and dad wanna know every detail btw us, for example" how is ur relationship going? he still writes to u everyday?""When u are going to have kids?" hahaha.

Yup,i have same problem with you,Lozi. Actually,my mom askes" he still talks with you everyday?""when u r going to have kids,then i'll help you to take care of you kid. when i'm not too old"hehehehe Sometimes my mom gave me alots pressure.But i understand what her feeling is.She loves me too much. But i'm very surprised that my dad has open mind.He always tell my mom"western has different mind with us. We should understand them."

Be honest,we don't wanna get a kid so fast.and i didn't tell my honey what my mom worried. Because i don't wanna see any gap between my mom and my honey. And i think i'll find a good way to explain to my mom.

By the way,Lozi,I'm in Shanghai too.

[Guest enight]

By the way,Lozi,I'm in Shanghai too.

yeah! me too, me too!

 

the Gang of Shanghai!