hank

I agree with Robert. Our issue needs to be heard, so let's get the letters going... especially when this topic is fresh in Mrs. Harty's mind... thanks to Jenny. Another IMPORTANT issue that occured to me this morning. Unlike adoptions, these visa problems could also cause backdoor deportations of American Citizens. I know that this sounds crazy, but bear with me. If my visa was denied, like those of several of our CFL members in the black hole, I would be left with no choice but to leave the United States and move to China. This scenario does not exist with adoption issues. But how many of us can walk away from our so? If we can't, then we are forced to leave the U.S. In other words, this is a round-about way of deporting American Citizens. That is why our issue is so crucial, and outweighs adoptions by far. We need to be heard. Please Please Please Write an email or registered letter. Especially if you are one of those who have passed through this gauntlet. The rest of us need your help. maura harty : hartyma@state.gov Her address: 2201 C Street NW Room 6811 Washington DC 20520 202-647-9576

Thanks for the info guys. This is a great resource that I wish we could somehow archive.

CONGRATS!!!!! If anyone deserved this good news, you do. You have been diligent and awesome in keeping the timelines and tracking dates. I am sure that all CFL members really appreciate your work, and we are really happy to hear of your good news. Good Luck friend. I will keep posted to hear the good news of your white slip in April.

Pingme, I agree that you have some excellent points that demonstrate the gross unfairness in the system, but do any of these violate specific civil rights laws? Unfortunately, everything in our society is run by the letter of the law. What we need is someone with some knowledge of legal matters to look at the issue and give us a legal issue that we can use as leverage.

According to the GUZ website, there will be new surcharges for immigrant visas. http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/guangzho....html#surcharge Notice on Immigration Visa Surcharge "Beginning March 8, 2005, IV applicants who have paid the current $335 IV application fee via National Visa Center, but not the new surcharge, must pay it (RMB 373.5 or $45) at post. IV applicants who haven't paid any application fee should pay a total amount of RMB 3,154 or $380, on the day of the interview." So what are they going to do with this money? Are they going to use it to improve services? Nope, no mention of that!!! No, they are going to pour salt in our wounds. Make things hurt even more. Meanwhile Maura Harty, Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs, gave a lecture in Beijing about improving services for student and business visas. Is that were our money is going? I'm so PISSED!!!! They are so good at treating us and our fiances like crap. But they are quick to raise fees and surcharges. Screw GUZ! We should mention this new outrage in our emails to Mrs. Maura Harty. hartyma@state.gov

This quote from the news article reinforces what I have said about DOS priorities: "Harty said the US government was doing everything it could to improve the visa application process so that more Chinese students were able to study in the US instead of going elsewhere." There is no mention of immigrant visas, because that is not a priority. We are at the bottom of the stack, and will only get buried deeper as they try to make things more efficient for "students" and business people. We need to start writing letters.

Pingme, I like what you said about "illegalities and discrimination at the Guangzhou embassy" Has GUZ acted illegally in any way? Have they violated any of our civil rights? The answers to these questions may give us huge leverage in making our case. Is there a way that we can get these answers? Does anyone know the law?

Great Work nooneufo! Everyone appreciates this list, as it brings us all hope. I especially like the addition of estimated P4 dates. THANKS AGAIN!

Jenny, THANK YOU so much for taking our message to Maura Harty. It is great that she acknowledged that there were problems at GUZ. But the problems are bigger than just wait times. A HUGE problem is the lack of transparency, the way that people can be tossed into the black hole without rhyme or reason. The lack of oversight. The visa denials, even after a white slip is received (such as Alex's case or chuckandshuping). These problems can be solved without increasing office space at GUZ. Simply put, when the visa is denied, we should have the right to discuss our case with someone competent enough to explain what is going on. We deserve that right, after waiting an entire year. So there is a lot that Maura Harty can do! And now that Jenny has brought the issue up, it is up to us to keep the issue going. This is the person who can make changes. Let's keep the emails and registered letters coming. Don't let this opportunity slip away! We need to be heard. Her address: Maura Harty 2201 C Street NW Room 6811 Washington DC 20520 202-647-9576 Email: hartyma@state.gov

Excellent news Carl. Her response seems absolutely genuine and honest... in the fact that she personally answered your inquiry instead of sending you a canned letter. In addition, she was honest enough to say that she was travelling and unable to respond at the moment, rather than delegating the task to some assistant. I think that she is the right person to deal with. With our combined numbers, we can create an email and registered letter campaign unlike anything that Mrs. Maura Harty has ever experienced in her career. There should be transparency in the visa process at GUZ, and those with blue slips deserve an explanation. We should be allowed in the visa interviews, as our word is the best proof of a genuine relationship. And after we have paid good money (twice) to process our applications, the understaffed excuse doesn't float. There is no excuse for what is going on at GUZ. It is about time that we make our voices heard. Especially for our CFL members like Alex, chuckandshuping, and ahhming888, who are stuck in a black hole... with no explanation of what's going on. They should be able to sit down with someone to get the full story. This is unacceptable.

Trigg is right. The wait time is around five to six months, minimum. Just think, October P3's are getting interviews in March. Now a few November P3's have surfaced for April interviews.

igrier5, Don't take what GUZ says too seriously. In almost every case that I've read about, they are usually off target with their interview date projections. And if they are dealing with your congressman, I am sure that they are even more likely to provide a conservative estimate. I would stick to observing what goes on with other CFL members. If CFL members with November P3's are getting their P4's now, you should expect to receive yours soon. Just hang on... the timelines are usually quite consistant.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT! The notices that you will receive from the USCIS and NVC are merely notices... these are not forms that need to be returned. Basically, they are just "for your information". Besides, you can always get this information by calling the USCIS and NVC by phone. So you will lose absolutely nothing by being in China. And trying to get a change of address may even complicate things more. Just have a neighbor collect your mail for you. In fact, being in China may be a good thing. This process is incredibly long, and the more time that you can spend with your so the better. I wish that I could spend time in China. If your company ever has any overseas openings and could use a well educated guy that speaks Cantonese, please let me know. I would love to work in China.

Deekdooken, I agree with you 100%. What is happening in GUZ is wrong, but the policy makers will not know that if we don't speak up. Remember that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Right now, the only people banging the drum for change are those who want business visas and student visas. As a result, they have priority over us, and get processed rather quickly. Meanwhile, our visa cases sit on the backburner until GUZ can get to us. This is not fair, when other consulates in China can process temporary visas, but only GUZ can process ours. In this respect, GUZ should give us priority. But we need to speak out. And we need to speak out about the insensitive disregard that VO's have towards our cases... especially after we have waited a year to be interviewed. Why is there no transparency in the Process? Why can't Alex sit down with a representative from the DOS to find out why his case was denied and sent back to the States? Why can't we attend the interviews with our so in order to prove our relationship? As American citizens, we have the right to make these demands. We are not asking for too much. We are only requesting fairness. Unless we speak up, we can expect to be swept further under the rug.

I totally agree that we should all write to Mrs. Harty, especially those who feel that they have received blue slips unfairly. She cannot find a resolution to the problems at GUZ if she does not know about the problem. It would be a shame if she only hears from people who are interested in temporary business, tourist, and student visas; because those cases are already getting top priority over us... and probably at our expense. In addition, those who have received your white slips, a simple email from you could really help your CFL brothers and sisters. Remember that we do not have to request monumental changes... just better customer service at GUZ and better transparency in the process. Maura harty : hartyma@state.gov

That is AWESOME News!!!! This brings hope to the rest of us who are waiting for P4's. Congrats, and thanks for sharing the info.

CONGRATS!!! Your good news gives hope to all of us.

"If we had more numbers from people, we could refine this much further." nooneufo, I totally agree. CFL's sister site .001 may have more postings from others with October P3's. It would really help if we can look at their numbers too. But unfortunately, I can't read Chinese. I would ask my so to check, but she is on vacation with friends. Does anyone know if it is feasible to get info from .001?

jgrier5 is correct. Only Some of the October P3's have received P4's this month. So it is about a five month wait from P3 to P4, and a 1.5 to 2 month wait from P4 to the interview. Good luck.

Patience my friends, the month is almost over. If the P4 spigot is going to open, it should do so soon.

nooneufo, You are talking about the USCIS, which is a department of homeland security. GUZ is part of the DOS. But I still think that you have a valid idea. If we knew the right person or persons in the DOS to lodge complaints with, we may be able to make an impact. And even better, if we can make those complaints specific to the VO's that consistantly screw over our CFL members... like the infamous black pearl. When the right people hear the same complaints over and over, they may be compelled to check things out. And to increase our leverage, we need to learn how the complaint process works. Are there any laws on the books that require oversight or the investigation of complaints? I'm throwing these questions out to any CLF member that may have some insight.

While the USCIS may be a different department, I think that Jim still has a valid idea. If we knew the right person or persons in the DOS to lodge complaints with, we may be able to make an impact. And even better, if we can make those complaints specific to the VO's that consistantly screw over our CFL members... like the infamous black pearl. When the right people hear the same complaints over and over, they may be compelled to check things out. And to increase our leverage, we need to learn how the complaint process works. Are there any laws on the books that require oversight or the investigation of complaints? I'm throwing these questions out to any CLF member that may have some insight.

Now if we were to issue complaints, we need to know who to talk to. Would we bring up the issue with Edward Dong, the consul General? Or is there someone higher up that we should talk with? Who is the man or woman who is in charge of oversight? That's what we need to know.

pingme, You have a good idea, but there are several issues that arise. First, most of the people waiting are afraid to make any waves just yet... because we each have a lot riding on this visa process. So only those who have passed this ordeal can send the letters. But most of those who get their visas move on... and we never hear from them again. I think that most of them just want to forget this nightmare. I will give a lot of credit to those who stick around to offer their wisdom. It is greatly appreciated. On the other hand, we are not talking about making giant changes in the way the DOS operates. In fact, we would merely be complaining about the poor service at ONE lousy consulate in GUZ. It would be like me complaining to Walmart's corporate offices about one store in my local town with poor service. In that sense, perhaps an outpouring of letters from those who have already received their visas, in the form of feedback to the DOS, could really help. Or maybe someone with a lot of $$ will initiate a lawsuit that is long overdue.

Your P4 wish should be coming soon. We are near the end of the month, so if the P4 Spigot is going to open, it should do so in the next few days!!! Keep the faith.