A Blizzard of Whites

[C4Racer]

I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with being prepared or not. My guess is it has more to do with the recent marriage scam busts made by ICE and the fact that in Dec'08 ICE got a conviction in Federal court of one particular ring that dealt specifically with bringing ladies from China on visas obtained with non-bonfide relationships. They will be looking at these types of visas through a magnifying glass. Proof of relationships will be a little harder as I am sure some directives are coming down from the top because of things missed in the past. They are going to be extra cautious for a while, meaning visa are going to be harder to get. The burden of proof of a true relationship weighs heavier with petitioner/beneficiary more than before. Now more than ever there will be a need to front load applications.

Edited January 16, 2009 by C4Racer (see edit history)

[Richard & Li]

I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with being prepared or not. My guess is it has more to do with the recent marriage scam busts made by ICE and the fact that in Dec'08 ICE got a conviction in Federal court of one particular ring that dealt specifically with bringing ladies from China on visas obtained with non-bonfide relationships. They will be looking at these types of visas through a magnifying glass. Proof of relationships will be a little harder as I am sure some directives are coming down from the top because of things missed in the past. They are going to be extra cautious for a while, meaning visa are going to be harder to get. The burden of proof of a true relationship weighs heavier with petitioner/beneficiary more than before. Now more than ever there will be a need to front load applications.

 

That's very interesting. I'll Google for more information. But, do you have any links?

[heyjimi]

I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with being prepared or not. My guess is it has more to do with the recent marriage scam busts made by ICE and the fact that in Dec'08 ICE got a conviction in Federal court of one particular ring that dealt specifically with bringing ladies from China on visas obtained with non-bonfide relationships. They will be looking at these types of visas through a magnifying glass. Proof of relationships will be a little harder as I am sure some directives are coming down from the top because of things missed in the past. They are going to be extra cautious for a while, meaning visa are going to be harder to get. The burden of proof of a true relationship weighs heavier with petitioner/beneficiary more than before. Now more than ever there will be a need to front load applications.

 

I kind of agree with you,I think there has been unfortunately some kind of crack down,perhaps even a quota system.And maybe alot of VOs are pressured to examine more closely(in other words give more whites).with the pressure to look like one is doing their job,as we know they are not examineing real closely,but its easier to say,"denied"......i really think its something deeper than the skin deep thought "not being prepared" .I am thankful i found CFL,as i recieved much help and advice on here,and i felt my wife and I were prepared,yes,we have some red flags,unfortunately when i filed,some 18 months ago,i wasnt told then to front load. I still feel had my wife been given the decency to present her case,we would not have gotten the white slip.And on a final note,for those that think its because,petetioners have been "snowed" to marry visa hungry woman,and the VOs are out to really catch bad guys,go on some of the chinese websites,and read a few stories,where there are actually visa hungry woman(a few...not all of them).they walk in with a handful of emails,had quickly married,hardly any communication between petitioner and beneficiary,and they are on their way to the USA.

there is no consistancy on who gets the visa or not,in reality,there are no bases to be covered,because,we are not sure what the bases are,where the bases are...its a mystery.....so yeah to finish my original thought,i think theres something deeper going on,my thought pressure to give more whites.

jimi

[C4Racer]

I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with being prepared or not. My guess is it has more to do with the recent marriage scam busts made by ICE and the fact that in Dec'08 ICE got a conviction in Federal court of one particular ring that dealt specifically with bringing ladies from China on visas obtained with non-bonfide relationships. They will be looking at these types of visas through a magnifying glass. Proof of relationships will be a little harder as I am sure some directives are coming down from the top because of things missed in the past. They are going to be extra cautious for a while, meaning visa are going to be harder to get. The burden of proof of a true relationship weighs heavier with petitioner/beneficiary more than before. Now more than ever there will be a need to front load applications.

 

That's very interesting. I'll Google for more information. But, do you have any links?

 

Sure, here's the one about the Chinese marriage ring conviction.

http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0812/081223stpaul.htm

 

different ring busted in the same month: http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0812/081222sanjuan.htm

Different ring this year: http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0901/090113dc.htm

[chilton747]

Also I believe that one of the reasons the Chinese are being slowed has to do with the economy. The Chinese women come here, find a job, and save all of their money. They basically contribute nothing to the economy.

 

Of course I say this in a jokingly manner.

[Stepbrow]

I think there is a lot of good analysis in this thread.

 

I think that there are many more white slips that in the past.

 

I think that this is due to some of the ICE busts. Interestingly though, if you look at the names of those convicted, most are naturalized citizens.

 

I think that the CO's have a basic policy of three red flags and your out. I think that their thought is that if you have a real relationship, you will overcome and be back in a year or so.

 

Sure one of the red flags is time of meeting to time of marriage.

[Randy W]

Thr 'secret' consulate is no secret at all. Until a few years ago, this was where the interviews were held. They still use it for their primary mailing address (including P3 returns). Check the 'contact us' page on their website to see where the different functions are.

[david_dawei]

increase in illegal immigration (or people fraulently using legal immigration) , plus someone had posted of the changing of the immigration chief (??) some time back... I didn't think much of it at the time but now would love to reconcile the increases with this...

 

some white slippers who got the VOs to talk more openly were told that a more iron fist approach was being employed now...

[IllinoisDave]

I agree that something's changed at GUZ. I don't buy into the idea that more people are coming here later in the process, thus driving up the % of whites for CFL members. If true it may mean we just might want to change the advice we give new members who're still early in the process.

 

The traditional line has been that techinically all you had to do was satisfy the letter of the requirements, i.e. having met at least once in person etc. The advice we've given since I've been here has always been that marrying on the first visit or shortly after a divorce should not be an impediment as long as you've met all the requirements and have your paperwork ducks in a row. I think that may have changed now.

 

Maybe we should start telling folks they should let the relationship breath for awhile after the first meeting before getting engaged or married, especially when a recent divorce is involved. Or maybe just for everyone.

 

We've always said "the more trips the merrier,but only one is required" and "plenty of people get pink with only one trip" etc. That may still be the case for many without divorces or no other potential red flags. But until the evidence coming out of GUZ shows otherwise, it seems that the game has tilted against those with more borderline cases.

 

Of course, this all depends on that advice getting to couples before they've taken the plunge. Many find us only after they've gotten engaged or married and are starting the filing process.

[Ying 'n Doug]

Im going to be a little controversial here and say that I am a bit surprised that people are surprised when they get turned down for a visa after they marry their girl on the first visit. It just shows right away a lack of clear thinking and a high gullibility factor. I know that in many cases there have been 1 year relationships following the marriage and maybe a couple repeat visits but that doesnt eliminate the HUGE message it sends to the consulate that you can be easily snowed. You are just doomed if you do that.

 

This visa problem is being created by the internet entrepeneurs connecting these girls with American guys and promoting the concept of a quick marriage and visa. The flood of applications go in and they all have a very similar profile and the consulate is just shooting them down by profiling. I am very surprised the SCs are not cutting them off there. I am sure GUZ is taking matters into their own hands because of that. Its the SCs that are making their lives hell because of all the acceptances.

 

I really think applicants need to take the time to spend a significant amount of time with their prospect before getting married and before submitting the application and not bog the whole system down with petitions that are doomed for denials. Its only slowing down the process for those that want to take the time to figure out if she is "the right one".

 

Hold off on marriage, spend at least a couple months with her and get a K1, then get another 90 days to see if its right. I'm disappointed the system doesn't make it easier to spend time together in person but I can understand the rampant fraud situation.

 

I met a girl online from the Phillipines here in the US on a K1. Shortly after she got here the guy bailed out on her. She spent the rest of her 90 days searching for a way to stay here, even dating other guys, while living with her ex-fiance. She was a very sweet naive girl who got fooled into thinking this guy really loved her. The truth is they were just a complete mismatch and he was hoping for a young, wild, submissive which she was not. Its a good thing they at least figured it out before they got married.

 

I think you just have to take your time to see if its right before starting the process. Thats what I am doing...

 

I am very glad I found CFL when I started this adventure and I find myself feeling the same as most of you but why so many guys are just diving into marriage after a few DAYS of meeting in person is beyond me and then being so surprised when they get white slipped. CLEARLY, GUZ is saying "take another year to get to know her, then we'll see...". Blue slip doesnt do that.

 

Lee,

 

Thanks much for the post. Sounds very rational, no matter how much I don¡¯t want to hear it. I think you¡¯re hitting somewhere close to the truth.

 

After many years of active dating had failed to produce an acceptable candidate for marriage. I decided to try other means. About three years into that, a Chinese friend suggested I try looking in China, as she said many of my views would be very compatible with those of many Chinese women. After a protracted search, I finally met my fianc¨¦e.

 

I was engaged to Ying on my first visit to China. We¡¯d been corresponding for 7 months. I went to China to see if there really was woman like I saw in those letters. She was every bit of it. So, I figured, let¡¯s get engaged now because this process is going to take a 6 ¨C 8 months to even begin to come to a conclusion and we¡¯ll have time to get to know one another much better in that time. I filed the I-129 as soon as I got back from China.

 

I had imagined that I¡¯d be making more trips to China to be ¡°sure¡±. As it turned out, I was injured and couldn¡¯t travel that far for a year. We kept up an almost daily conversation on Skype, but were not able to be physically together again until recently.

 

If it were my son in the same position, I know I¡¯d be skeptical of the relationship. I hate to think of the State Department as my ¡°father¡± in all of this, but your take on what¡¯s going on is the most sensible I¡¯ve heard.

 

I was shocked (and furious!) when Ying got white-slipped. How could they? A lot of the fog is clearing as I read your post.

 

I was all fired up to get married immediately after we were refused. Now I see the trap in all that. We¡¯ve invited suspicion by going too fast ¨C it¡¯ll likely only get worse if we keep going fast. Now I¡¯m trying to figure out how to explain to Ying that we will not get married on this trip to China. We need to wait until the next trip, at least. I¡¯m going to hire a decent lawyer now, and I¡¯ll bet dollars to doughnuts that¡¯s what he¡¯ll recommend. We just need time to be together, to really get close. We¡¯ve never even had a difference of opinion yet

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head, Lee. Thanks. There¡¯s no sense in beating our heads against the wall just because it feels so good when we stop. I want to spend the rest of my life with Ying.. No sense in taking the long way around, even if the short way looks long now. I hope I can make the case to Ying. If I can¡¯t, I¡¯m sure we¡¯d have worse problems down the road. It¡¯s tough to take, and I hate to admit it, but I think you put the light right on the heart of the whole thing at GUZ.

 

Thanks, buddy. You really helped me see this whole thing a lot more clearly. I know what we have to do now. .

[HKG]

It seems like quite a few white slips (NOID) are being generated by the GUZ these days with blues being the exception. The white slip of death use to be a very rare occurance. In fact if the question was one of a bonafide relationship I best recall those were being blue slipped. Has GUZ been given a new direction? Are folks just less prepared? Why? Your thoughts?

More pinks, less whites..!

[Robert S.]

The VO should be required to allow at least a certain amount of time to each applicant for her to make her case. It is improper on the face of it when they have obviously made a predetermined decision and will not look at any of her evidence. CFL should take a political stand against the government for this abuse, which reeks of the old "yellow peril" prejudice that used to be even "legitimized" in the law. Way back in the evil days of the Black Hole we might have actually nudged the State Department to back off from their persecution of Chinese applicants for visas even though China had less than nothing to do with 9-11. We had quite a list of members who co-signed the letters we sent.

[pbatt]

I have to agree with Michael. ICE raids are creating a lot of new regulations. The raid on Postville IA meat packing house was all started by a Chinese Work permit gone bad at SAn Francisco Customs I believe. He said he was going to stay in California but the work visa was for IA. His mistakes led to the raid in IA.

 

The raid on the Chinese marriage ring in Minneapolis a year or so ago has not been in the headlines for awhile. I am not sure they have gotten all thru federal court yet.

 

IMHO that things will only get worse before better. As people figure out a new way to get around the system, the system will find new ways to shut them down.

Which makes it all the more reason to be even more prepared than ever before.

The headaches of the very first big change in rules is what brought about CFL. I got caught up in that mess also.

[HKG]

I have to agree with Michael. ICE raids are creating a lot of new regulations. The raid on Postville IA meat packing house was all started by a Chinese Work permit gone bad at SAn Francisco Customs I believe. He said he was going to stay in California but the work visa was for IA. His mistakes led to the raid in IA.

 

The raid on the Chinese marriage ring in Minneapolis a year or so ago has not been in the headlines for awhile. I am not sure they have gotten all thru federal court yet.

 

IMHO that things will only get worse before better. As people figure out a new way to get around the system, the system will find new ways to shut them down.

Which makes it all the more reason to be even more prepared than ever before.

The headaches of the very first big change in rules is what brought about CFL. I got caught up in that mess also.

I have asked this question, about fraud possibly this is not the place to ask this question, but here goes, I gave my girlfriend an exact copy of our 124F and my income tax statements that contained

my social security number, if someone is involved in a fraud ring did they give, "whoever" this information, did any of you who got denials give your future partner this information. My point being with ID theft the way it is, doesn't this show something that points to bonafide relation. it would seem to me as being as valid as pictures, emails, etc.

[Zhen's Tiger]

Im going to be a little controversial here and say that I am a bit surprised that people are surprised when they get turned down for a visa after they marry their girl on the first visit. It just shows right away a lack of clear thinking and a high gullibility factor. I know that in many cases there have been 1 year relationships following the marriage and maybe a couple repeat visits but that doesnt eliminate the HUGE message it sends to the consulate that you can be easily snowed. You are just doomed if you do that.

 

This visa problem is being created by the internet entrepeneurs connecting these girls with American guys and promoting the concept of a quick marriage and visa. The flood of applications go in and they all have a very similar profile and the consulate is just shooting them down by profiling. I am very surprised the SCs are not cutting them off there. I am sure GUZ is taking matters into their own hands because of that. Its the SCs that are making their lives hell because of all the acceptances.

 

I really think applicants need to take the time to spend a significant amount of time with their prospect before getting married and before submitting the application and not bog the whole system down with petitions that are doomed for denials. Its only slowing down the process for those that want to take the time to figure out if she is "the right one".

 

Hold off on marriage, spend at least a couple months with her and get a K1, then get another 90 days to see if its right. I'm disappointed the system doesn't make it easier to spend time together in person but I can understand the rampant fraud situation.

 

I met a girl online from the Phillipines here in the US on a K1. Shortly after she got here the guy bailed out on her. She spent the rest of her 90 days searching for a way to stay here, even dating other guys, while living with her ex-fiance. She was a very sweet naive girl who got fooled into thinking this guy really loved her. The truth is they were just a complete mismatch and he was hoping for a young, wild, submissive which she was not. Its a good thing they at least figured it out before they got married.

 

I think you just have to take your time to see if its right before starting the process. Thats what I am doing...

 

I am very glad I found CFL when I started this adventure and I find myself feeling the same as most of you but why so many guys are just diving into marriage after a few DAYS of meeting in person is beyond me and then being so surprised when they get white slipped. CLEARLY, GUZ is saying "take another year to get to know her, then we'll see...". Blue slip doesnt do that.

Well, I missed this post until today but I find it necessary to reply. You may have a few valid points and things have changed in the Visa process since we went through it, but the way you generalize about certain people is way off base. I lived across the street from my first wife & we dated for 2.5 years before we got married, and we were divorced in 6 months... if I was ever snowed in my life, it was then.

I met Zhen online on New Years Eve, 2005 and went to see her for the 1st time on March 20th, 2006 & we got married on March 23rd... so we knew each other for 3 months and were married on the 3rd day of actually meeting. She got her Visa less than 10 months later with no problems. We'll be married for 3 years soon and our son is 7 months old now. Boy, she really snowed me - I can't wait for the blizzard to start!

I wish you no ill will, but I'm curious how your posts will look if you are blue/white slipped after all your high & mighty planning. I'm sorry that some of the other unfortunate people who received white slips are only slowing down the process for those like you that want to take the time to figure out if she is "the right one".