Land Use Policies

[rogerluli]

After the president's call for more biofuel production in the US a study was released giving the abysmal state of cropland loss in the US and questioning whether we could possibly meet those goals. Of some of our prime farming states of California, Georgia and Wisconsin approximately 5% of cropland has been lost in the past 5 years. Reductions like this in cropland and open space affect the ability of future generations to meet their food and energy needs. So all over America homeowners sitting on their little fiefdom of 1 to 5 acres of lawn, that had been farmland, have voluntarily knocked down their homes and returned the land to crop production... B) Right...Is this one of the major downsides to the "free market" system? Is it a big plus for America to be using up space for a countryside increasingly dotted with McMansions surrounded by lawn???

 

I live in an area of many lakes. All of these lakes are surrounded by homes and in many cases NO public access is available. For years I have been telling my lakefront dwelling friends that NO ONE should live on the lakeshore. The lakes are all owned by the state so why should not all citizens have free access to them. Build high rises nearby and anyone can saunter down and enjoy the lakeshore... even the poor, unwashed from the cities...Right...

 

I have seen a fair amount of China and at last count have visited 14 cities for at least 2 nights stay. We have traveled extensively by train, but also bus and car between cities. Everywhere we have gone I have made it a point to observe land use patterns. I very much like what China does. In China you have districts of built-up urban housing and then immediately adjoining, areas of cropland where the food for the local residents is grown. I am not, of course, talking about the really large urban areas but the mid to small size cities and villages that are everywhere.

 

It seems to me that China's system of centralized planning for land use is far superior to our own hodge podge system of allowing growth potential to go to the highest bidder at any given moment and intelligent, long-range planning be damned...

Edited January 30, 2007 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[Yuanyang]

So right you are Mr. Roger. While I'm very much of a "my land I'll do what the hell I want guy" there has to be some concern for the greater good. We're losing thousands of acres each (day? week? month?) to what? Housing developement. Why? Because if we live too closely to each other we'll shoot each other. So we live far far away from our jobs which of course means we spend hundreds of dollars every month (and countless hours) driving to and from work. Whereas a civilized soceity of people can live in a higher density housing without the crime and have more time to enjoy their family.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Yuanyang (see edit history)

[Guest Duke]

Of some of our prime farming states of California, Georgia and Wisconsin approximately 5% of cropland has been lost in the past 5 years. Reductions like this in cropland and open space affect the ability of future generations to meet their food and energy needs.

 

Have you checked to see how much farmland is sitting idle while the owners are being paid not to farm on it? You might want to compare the acreage lost figures to those figures for some perspective. In short, it's at least 34 million acres or more area than that of the State of New York.

 

http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/jul/crp/crpmaplarge.jpg

[SirLancelot]

It's not a shortage of farmable land, it's a shortage of land being farmed. Get the frickin' government out of it and there is more than enough.

 

America is so fortunate. The original colonists struck gold when conquering the US of A. The US has about 50% arable land with close to 300 million people. China has 4.5x the number of people but only 10% of its land is arable. The psychical size of China is roughly equal to the size of the US. To feed 4.5x the number of people, China has only 1/5 the amount of farming space as the US to do so.

 

China needs to devote a massive amount of funding to agricultural high technology instead of military high technology. But alas, with the US spending so massively on defense spending, one can't blame China in trying to catch up a bit. But it's to its own detriment. They should focus much more funding to agricultural R&D.

[danb]

China does have problems with land management. She also has problems with her enviroment and her water. In the North the amount of arid land is increases. In the South she has lost valuable and fertile farm lands along the Yangtze River with the construction of the 3 Gorge Dam Project. We all have heard about the 3 Gorge project but there have been other Dam projects. With each of her dam projects she has lost good farming land. The farmers along the fertile valley banks were relocated to higher less fertile lands. The south is much richer in water resources than the north. In fact there is an ambitious water divertion project underway. They are planning to send water from the south to the north. I think there are three major routes being used or being considered to channel the water from the Yangtse River up to the Beijing/Tiajian area. They are going to have to pump the water up hill part of the way and make waterways thru some mountainous regions in the west. I have heard that there are rivers that run dry in the North each year. Much of China's history happened around the coastal area and the major rivers. This is where her population was always the greatest. I wonder if the Chinese are looking to the western part (less popluated) of China to resolve some of her problems. As China grows she will have definite have a strong influence on many natural resources around Asia and the world. I think water might be the most important.

[skibum]

1. It is a lot easier to manage land use when the land is not priviately owned.

 

2. The western part of China is mountainous and dry. The desert is moving south and the gov. is trying to reverse the trend much as Iran did under the Shah.

 

3. No one seems to take over- population as a problem as they do not worry about their kids and grandkids. Like the national debt.

[chilton747]

China does have problems with land management. She also has problems with her enviroment and her water. In the North the amount of arid land is increases. In the South she has lost valuable and fertile farm lands along the Yangtze River with the construction of the 3 Gorge Dam Project. We all have heard about the 3 Gorge project but there have been other Dam projects. With each of her dam projects she has lost good farming land. The farmers along the fertile valley banks were relocated to higher less fertile lands. The south is much richer in water resources than the north. In fact there is an ambitious water divertion project underway. They are planning to send water from the south to the north. I think there are three major routes being used or being considered to channel the water from the Yangtse River up to the Beijing/Tiajian area. They are going to have to pump the water up hill part of the way and make waterways thru some mountainous regions in the west. I have heard that there are rivers that run dry in the North each year. Much of China's history happened around the coastal area and the major rivers. This is where her population was always the greatest. I wonder if the Chinese are looking to the western part (less popluated) of China to resolve some of her problems. As China grows she will have definite have a strong influence on many natural resources around Asia and the world. I think water might be the most important.

I am curious to see how they pump water uphill.

Yes the world. Their pact with Africa will certainly yield them more nautral resources.

I am curious to see how they pump water uphill.

Edited February 4, 2007 by chilton747 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I am curious to see how they pump water uphill.

 

http://www.customvisuals.net/gallery_direc...Images_215.html

 

http://www.customvisuals.net/catalogs/previews/Ken_Ferrell/p0000000215.jpg

 

Located near Mettler, CA., this is the discharge lines from the Wind Gap Pumping Plant. The Edmonston Pumping Plant is the highest single lift pumping plant in the world, raising water 1,926 feet to cross the Tehachapi Mountains, then water flows by gravity into the Antelope Valley, where it divides into the East and West Branch Aquaducts.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Randy W (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

I am curious to see how they pump water uphill.

 

http://www.customvisuals.net/gallery_direc...Images_215.html

 

http://www.customvisuals.net/catalogs/previews/Ken_Ferrell/p0000000215.jpg

 

Located near Mettler, CA., this is the discharge lines from the Wind Gap Pumping Plant. The Edmonston Pumping Plant is the highest single lift pumping plant in the world, raising water 1,926 feet to cross the Tehachapi Mountains, then water flows by gravity into the Antelope Valley, where it divides into the East and West Branch Aquaducts.

I remember seeing those pipes many a time when driving over Tehachapi along highway 54. Awesome piece of engineering!

[lostinblue]

As a person who raises cattle and has an interest in agriculture I would like to weigh in on this subject. Land use is best left to the person who owns the land as far as management is concerned. In most cases. One of the main reason farmland is being used for housing is a money issue.Lack of the abilty to make a living from the farm so it is sold for housing. We in this country have a cheap food policy You spend as a percentage less on food than almost any other place in the world verses the money you make. This is why a pickup truck cost 20-30,000 today. Homes are 150,000 and up WHY you have income that is not needed for food. The number one reason for a quiet and happy population as far as the government is concerned is a cheap and abundant food supply. When you look to history either Soviet Union in the 30's or China in the 60's the main goal was to keep the cities fed even if it meant for the agricultural population to starve to death. Our farm programs work to keep this over production going full tilt. Through the advances in genetics in crops and livestock we have greatly improved the yield coming off the farms. In order to survive you get big or find a market that is less intense pressure wise like growing christmas trees . As far as the CPR acreage it's main purpose is to take land out of production. As we had a surplus of corn and small grains produced in the US.,One thing good about this is a lot of land that is subject to erosion is in this program.One only has to look to china to see the silt from runoff in the rivers and the gobi desert creeping toward Beijing to realize maybe a CPR program would work and is needed in china. This is something that can affect climate change in a big way.

The one thing going on today is ethenol production. This will chew up a lot of corn and will change the dynamics of agriculture across the board. The price for corn has gone from about 2.00/ bu. to almost 4.00 in a year. good for the corn farmers but makes it tough in the cattle business. A lot of CPR land will come out of the program and into corn. As more corn is used in ethenol less will be used for chicken and swine operations as cost of production will be make difficult to stay in business. Until The price rises due to supply and demand.

[lostinblue]

In my opinion making ethenol will not affect one cent what you pay at the pump as the oil countries know we will pay 55-60/barrel for oil and will adjust production to meet this price. So you will still pay 2.50-3.00/gal for gas and now your food bill will rise also. Here in my neck of the woods people are trying to put in some wind farms. But we run into NOT in my back yard situation. In my town they are not against windmills they just passed a law that they need to be no farther than 1000 feet from our interstate so in effect putting a ban on them as the location permitted is not desirable for a wind mill. If allowed on our farm that would mean 7-8000 / wind mill income. per year. You cannot fight city hall. I can see on the great plains where all the CPR land is would be well positioned to have wind farms ,the wind never stops blowing when I have been there.

In my case how do you handle this ? Sell the land and drop 20-30 homes. Keep raising cattle for little profit as I will need to buy high price ethanol corn. Raise corn on land that should not be in corn production .Fight a loosing battle with the neighbors to have a wind mill farm so you can afford to pay the school taxes in one of the highest taxed states in the united states. ? It is not a simple answer.

[skibum]

I think that Vanatu (sp ?) has a good land use policy. The native people own the land but they can lease it and make rent money. For private homes the lease is 50 years. The govt acts as leasing agents.

[notrevorich]

In my opinion making ethenol will not affect one cent what you pay at the pump as the oil countries know we will pay 55-60/barrel for oil and will adjust production to meet this price. So you will still pay 2.50-3.00/gal for gas and now your food bill will rise also. Here in my neck of the woods people are trying to put in some wind farms. But we run into NOT in my back yard situation. In my town they are not against windmills they just passed a law that they need to be no farther than 1000 feet from our interstate so in effect putting a ban on them as the location permitted is not desirable for a wind mill. If allowed on our farm that would mean 7-8000 / wind mill income. per year. You cannot fight city hall. I can see on the great plains where all the CPR land is would be well positioned to have wind farms ,the wind never stops blowing when I have been there.

In my case how do you handle this ? Sell the land and drop 20-30 homes. Keep raising cattle for little profit as I will need to buy high price ethanol corn. Raise corn on land that should not be in corn production .Fight a loosing battle with the neighbors to have a wind mill farm so you can afford to pay the school taxes in one of the highest taxed states in the united states. ? It is not a simple answer.

I live in Alachua county Florida - home of a radial tree hugger Government , They down graded the zoning of my land 2 years ago and that cost me about 400k , I now cann't build very many homes on the lake now , So the next thing they want to do to me is prevent the harvesting of about 100k of timber -that is n't even close to the environmenly senstive lake - But these trees are long leaf pines .

The county now owns about 6000 feet of lake fron while I own 2900 feet ,but I can only have ONE BOAT DOCK !

I am surrounded by county lands and the County does n't have the ability to manage the adjacent 260 acre parcel next to me so they have turned it over to a hunt club .

I feel I am now living in a shooting gallery

 

So I guess I am in the Minority here because I don't think that Government does a great job in zoning or directing land for it's best purpose .

Oh by the way , they are not going to let the public on to most of this land they have acquired - so much for your idea of High rises for the masses .

[Feathers268]

Is it a big plus for America to be using up space for a countryside increasingly dotted with McMansions surrounded by lawn???

Not in this state, If you show me an acre, I'll show you 4 or 5 houses on it.

[DMikeS4321]

Of some of our prime farming states of California, Georgia and Wisconsin approximately 5% of cropland has been lost in the past 5 years. Reductions like this in cropland and open space affect the ability of future generations to meet their food and energy needs.

 

Have you checked to see how much farmland is sitting idle while the owners are being paid not to farm on it? You might want to compare the acreage lost figures to those figures for some perspective. In short, it's at least 34 million acres or more area than that of the State of New York.

 

http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/jul/crp/crpmaplarge.jpg

 

Plenty of biofuel potential there, I'd say...