Racism in China

[Cerberus]

Dave, as far as how Jen took it. She was able to laugh about it later that night and was by far more concerned with the bump on my head from hitting the car door and the cold I got thanks to sitting on the plane next to someone hacking and coughing all the way from SFO. Will this affect the rest of our stay? Not a chance. We are now planning to head out for some shopping and as before, we will hold hands and look very much as a couple. All of those around can think and even say what they want. JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY WIFE!

 

Feathers,

 

I should clarify a bit. I hope that the comment I made, wasn't taken as a crticism, as to holding hands, acting like an older couple "properly should." This is a personal preference of ours (Dave and Alice), upbringing in her family, and from my time in the Orient. It is just out of place for us and can be awkward, even today. There are times when I am around excutives in the aerospace field in Thailand and this is behavior is frowned upon by some of "the sticks-in-the mud!" LOL. We are able to sneak grabs in between the scenes, though! LOL "To each, their own!"

 

Glad to hear that she shook the incident off so easily. She sounds like a beautiful woman. Take care.

 

Dave

[SmilingAsia]

I used to be an interpreter and I fought a lot with vendors, taxi drivers, hotel staff for they charged a higher rate for the technical people I interpreted for.

Things are getting better. It's much worse in 1995.

 

The stares at foreigners are stupid and ignorant. Forgive them cuz China was just opened 20 years ago.

Over all counting, China is friendly to foreigners. Someone overstayed a Chinese visa for 8 months and 2 weeks. The penalty is RMB5,000 ($640). If I overstay a US visa for 8 months and 2 weeks, 10-year ban or will I be in jail?

 

Beijing people think they are the best. Shanghai people don't like people from other parts of China. It doesn't bother me. Guangzhou is more tolerant, but if you want the same opportunity like the locals, work harder and try to be smarter.

[jbray]

I have experienced a few problems in China, but it was only when I was with my wife... We lived in Chengdu for 2 years (well, she is from there, but I was only there for 2 years). This one time, we were riding our electric bike. SHe was driving (she didn't like it when I drove, becuase I am a little bit crazy in traffic). This guy rides up to us and starts talking to her. I couldn't understand what he was saying. He kept saying things. After a few minutes we lost him. About 1 KM down the road we stopped at an Intersection (for those that know Chengdu, it was at the intersection of KeHuaBei Lu, and YiHuan Lu). All the sudden this guy plows in to the front of our bike. He starts yelling at my wife calling her lots of terrible names. There was a crowd. The crowd turned UGLY. The nice thing was they were supporting us. They started shoving the guy. I thought they were going to beat him up. So, I get off the bike, put my hand on his shoulder and say (in Chinese), "Friend, Please just go". He did... Several other times, we have had people yell things at us, and throw things at us.

 

I have a few more examples, and I have a few examples of being over charged, but I have many other examples of people going out of their way to be nice... Several times in Taxi's I paid the meter price (like 14 RMB) with exact change, and the driver would take the 10 RMB and hand me back the 4. That kind of thing happened several times. I have also had drivers take the good luck things hanging on the mirror and give it to me... I can't tell you how many times I have gone to restaurants in small towns and not been charged, or taken a long distance bus and the driver giving me my money back...

 

In 3 years of living in CHina, I was treated like a king. There are ignorant people all over the world, in China, in America. Even as a White male, in Atlanta, I experience much more racism here than in China.

 

As one poster said, in China, people in big cities look down on people in small. The middle class look down on the workers. the people in Shanghai look down on everyone, everyone looks down on them. It's funny, but in China, it's such a matter of class and status.

 

As American's we need to think of ourselves as ambassadors. Many of us will be the only American's, only Caucasians, only African Americans that these people will ever see. So, try to act as good as you can. If you go in to a restaurant and fly off the handle, the people will remember that for a long time. If you fight on the street, everyone will notice. Don't live up to the stereiotypes. Sorry, I am a little off topic...

 

I think this is a good topic.

[NewDay2006]

And as much as we would like to ignore it, we still have plenty of racism right here in the good Ol USA. The ugly part is covered over, but, it's right there under the surface.

 

I couldn't agree more

[Dan R]

There is another issue here that is not racism but politics. It is only a few years since many places were off limits to foreigners. For 3 generations Americans were the enemy to be despised. It is only one generation since the government position changed to open to Americans. Even now the government position is not as friends but tolerated keep your guard up enemy. For the sake of the Chinese economy China has opened up. The government can change position simply by a decision made at the top. It takes the masses longer.

 

While walking with friends, particularly in smaller cities, I have heard people say something disparaging about Americans. In those areas French and Russian are more welcome because the government welcomed them throughout the antiAmerican period.

 

As for Racism, I have never experienced antisemitism in Asia like I have in the U.S.. In fact knowing I am Jewish is usually a plus in Asia.

 

Prejudice is a human characteristic. China is a very prejudiced country and has been throughout recorded history of contacts with outsiders (Laowai). As was pointed out earlier Chinese are prejudiced against each other for city, region, school attended and many other things.

 

At least we have moved from the Barbarians or Capitalist Demon Pigs to semi-acceptable Others.

 

Jim twenty years ago a hotel would have lost their operators license for admitting you if they didn't have a government authorization to admit foreigners posted with their license.

[NewDay2006]

In 3 years of living in CHina, I was treated like a king. There are ignorant people all over the world, in China, in America. Even as a White male, in Atlanta, I experience much more racism here than in China.

 

 

I live in Atlanta Jbray as you know... I must say as a black man, I've experienced more racism in NYC than I have in 15 years in Atlanta.

 

I never lived in China, but mostly I always felt like a movie star. I love China and the Chinese people,I only hate the toilets,.... some Chinese people would look at me like I was odd, but mostly I felt very good there, especially if I spoke some of my limited chinese I would get the warmest responses.

 

I feel when maybe they(chinese) come here to the US, a chinese person may listen to stereo-types of black people and they will look at Black people differently.... Stilll, usually most chinese people are friendly to me, especially if I show them my pearly whites, I'm kind of hard to resist

[sylinchinastill]

That has happened to me before to. They do have to have special permits to allow foreigners to stay there. Whenever I think about that I always remember the times whenever foreigners weren't even allowed to see all of China- they had to go on special Government approved routes. So- that's much better today.

[SmilingAsia]

While walking with friends, particularly in smaller cities, I have heard people say something disparaging about Americans. In those areas French and Russian are more welcome because the government welcomed them throughout the antiAmerican period.

China is a money-hungry society. They hire Russian girls to work in a bar or karaoke house to attract more customers - the job French girls or American girls would not take.

[NewDay2006]

While walking with friends, particularly in smaller cities, I have heard people say something disparaging about Americans. In those areas French and Russian are more welcome because the government welcomed them throughout the antiAmerican period.

China is a money-hungry society. They hire Russian girls to work in a bar or karaoke house to attract more customers - the job French girls or American girls would not take.

 

Eunice, America is not much different in regards to being money-hungry, I guess that is what is meant by Capitalism... maybe not the same way as in China... but people call your house all the time trying to get your money... don't walk onto a car dealership lot just wanting to "look". America is a great country, but it has many problems also. But I guess this is just a part of life where everyone wants a peice of the pie... some get a nice big piece, some just get crumbs and some get nothing

[SheLikesME?]

I was treated like a king.

This is mostly my experience. Overcharging I took in stride when I shoped at one of those malls my wife said was in the American district. However we really beat them up on proce. My son left the sales lady crying and another one mad and she followed him around from time to time scowling at him, because he bought nothing after trying on some shirts all folded and pinned in a bag and she had to put them back together with no sale.

 

Really I felt treated too well no matter which part of the country I was in. I began to feel sorta like a celebrity. Of course I was with another big European guy and our Chinese co-worker. Never had a refund, I thought, until just now. No matter how I figured the money, I fed 7-10 people a feast for under a dollar once. Nice restruant.

 

At one aircraft company that used our parts we were very much kept out. I know exactly what they were building but they could not say. At another airplane company I was taken inside the plant where suposedly no American had been before. Boy did I get stares. It was an old shop. Later I was sitting in the airplane as it went down the line trying to help an engineer lady. I loved the trust and love shared there. It hurt me so bad that my company did not back me up with all the support I needed at the time. But my boss went over to take the blame. That helped me save face a little.

 

What I worry about is some of the prejudice I have felt already here in America because my wife is CHinese. I guess that is a subject sorta half off topic. She isn't here yet, and I wonder how it will be. She smiles so much that maybe all will be well.

[SmilingAsia]

It's money, not race. The one who pays the bill is the king.

In the whole sale market of garment, accessories, they like black people and offer a lower price cuz they buy more.

 

In a tourist city like Beihai, they are very friendly to visitors of any color, any race, any gender.

[Feathers268]

Dave,

No worries, nothing you said was taken other than an opinion and I just was stating that the incident did not alter our actions. I had other times like last year in GZ when I was eating alone in McDonalds and a couple came up with the girl refusing to sit at the table next to me.

Dan,

The thing that had got to Jen was that we stayed there the day before going to Shanghai and was out stay over before moving on. So it was like giving a dog some food, then taking it away saying "bad dog".

Yesterday was the opposite experience when I went shopping with Jen and her cousin. I older man saw me in a car with 2 beautiful ladies which got a nod and show of admiration to have 2 ladies with me.

[Tony_onrock]

Racism is every where. Having lived in the states for 16 years as a Chinese, I had occasional unpleasant experiences pure because of race. But it was just a few ignorant people.

In China, and for that matter, Asian in general, racism is worse. It is really more of ignorance than anything else. When you don't have that much contact with a foreigner, you tend to generalize, about white, black, Koreans, Russians, etc.

Other than race, there is also national resentment. I made the mistake of debating with a cab driver on the bombing of Chinese embassy in Yogoslavia on my first trip back, and did it at night in a dark and remote highway. Almost got me stranded.

Since then I learnt the basic things which should problably work well for others as well.

(1). Don't show off.

Avoid any attitude that you are richer or better.

Any attempt in doing it, esp. from an white American will get resentment. I live in a totally local area of Shanghai. Most thought I teach in University. I never tried to correct them. Not even our nanny nor our maid know what I do. When people ask me where I am from, I would tell them Hebei Province, a relatively poor province. If nothing else, it helps in fending off thieves as well as resentment. We also have some students from EU and US that live in the compound, I see no resent from locals either towards them.

 

(2). Be friendly.

Chinese are actually the least racist in the world. Just think back, in the days of Marco Polo, if it is possible for a Chinese to become the governer of a Italian province. China accepted Marco Polo, because he came in peach and as a friend. Think again about the jews. They were persecuted virtually everywhere in the world for one reason or another. But in the Northwest region of China a whole group of jews settled. They were friendly and came as friendly neighbors. They were the only group of jews in the world that were welcomed by the host country, so welcome, that they completely merged into the local population and disappeared. In recent history there were some hostilities for reasons well known. Even so, if you act like a local, say hi ( preferrably in Chinese like a local), people treat you like one of their own. Moon and other blackman probalby can tell you more. I am sure at the beginning, for instance, for a black man to date a Chinese girl, esp. some one with good education etc., you would get a lot of glares and comments. It is because most Chinese get their perspective of what a black person is like from U.S. movies. But after they get to meet you as a person, the family probably would care less if the man is black or white. NOt sure if it is the same in the US.

 

(3). Stay away from politial discussions.

Probably most on this board never get to know the place well enough to air honest views on politics. Even if the Chinese you meet may agree with you 100% on Chinese politics, they don't take it too well if the criticism comes from a foreigner. If you happen to support the idea of independance for Taiwai, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, etc. it is much safer to keep your thougts to yourself. Even my friends here don't take it too well from a Chinese like me.

 

All that said, each people or individual members of it is entitled to be proud of its heritage and entitled to have his or her own opinion. In China, the difference is that there is not the same demand for being politically correct and thus it would appear to be more outwardly racist. But in reality, China is and has always been more tolerant towards other races and nationalities (Japan excepted) than most other countries. I can only compare it between the US and China. Even when you hear people refer to some as Gui Lao, or H. G., it does not carry the same emotion such as disgust or hatred as where people would refer to " those people, you know." in the states. In China these days, if you are sucessful, you are ok. Black, White, Asian or whatever color. If a few foreigner occassionally get a raw deal like being charged a higher price, I don't see it as a real problem. On my first trip to New York in 1984, a unlicensed cab drove me from JFK to La Guadia and decided to charge me 50 bucks as a tip on top of a fake meter. It was night time and the guy was a big black guy and I spoke just a bit of English. Do I need to lable it as a racial thing? I was purely dumb for getting into a gypsie cab in the first place.

[jbray]

Tony_onrock, excellent points!

 

In the places I while I was in China, there had never been any foreigners of any kind. In the district with a population of 4.5 million, there were 4 foreigners (on was Japanese, me, and 2 Peace Corps Volunteers). And they were about an hour away... I don't think the people in my area really could have been racist. They had never been around any other races... They did have unfounded opinions, which I tried my best to change.

 

What you have a lot of in China is, lack of education about the west and other cultures. There was a lot in the High School classes that at first made me a bit mad. I was sitting in a class that was taught by the teachers liason to the Communist Party. After the class I personally corrected her about some of the things she said (honestly I can't recal what the class was even about). Her response was that she really didn't know if what she was saying was even true or not. So, from then on, when she would give culture lessons about the West, she would ask me if it was correct.

 

So, as other posters said, I think it is more a matter of ignorance, and nationalism. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Chinese are the most clever in the world"... I did see a lot of prejeduce against the minorities. But I think it was more a matter of a socio-economic/cultural thing...

 

Unfortunetly, my wife has experienced some prejuduce here in the US. She is working at a school. Some of the parents refuse to even talk to her because the only want to talk to people with perfect English (her English is great). I don't think it's racism, it's just stupid people.

 

Just my opinion...

[bill23]

jbray,

 

I hate hearing that about your wife. I have been unfortunate to go through the same thing here in Georgia. The US is full of ignorant people who have lost touch with the true important things about life. In china they do have nationalism, so do we. My wife is Chinese so people assume she is greencard hunting. It is a shame they can assume that when they know nothing of her great life and great family in China.

 

 

Tony_onrock, excellent points!

 

In the places I while I was in China, there had never been any foreigners of any kind. In the district with a population of 4.5 million, there were 4 foreigners (on was Japanese, me, and 2 Peace Corps Volunteers). And they were about an hour away... I don't think the people in my area really could have been racist. They had never been around any other races... They did have unfounded opinions, which I tried my best to change.

 

What you have a lot of in China is, lack of education about the west and other cultures. There was a lot in the High School classes that at first made me a bit mad. I was sitting in a class that was taught by the teachers liason to the Communist Party. After the class I personally corrected her about some of the things she said (honestly I can't recal what the class was even about). Her response was that she really didn't know if what she was saying was even true or not. So, from then on, when she would give culture lessons about the West, she would ask me if it was correct.

 

So, as other posters said, I think it is more a matter of ignorance, and nationalism. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Chinese are the most clever in the world"... I did see a lot of prejeduce against the minorities. But I think it was more a matter of a socio-economic/cultural thing...

 

Unfortunetly, my wife has experienced some prejuduce here in the US. She is working at a school. Some of the parents refuse to even talk to her because the only want to talk to people with perfect English (her English is great). I don't think it's racism, it's just stupid people.

 

Just my opinion...