Money, and the apparent obsession with it

[mercator]

I Helped my SO out financially with here English lessons as well as some of her living expenses due to the fact she had to work partime because of her English lessons. I had reservations about this at 1st but I saw her effort she was doing and how well she was doing and improving on her English. So I figured she was going to move here to America and she was giving up her homeland for me I should help her out. I also asked myself when I was in China with her my money was no good. I even tried on picking up the tab but she would not accept anything from me. When we where together in China she did for me. Now I am doing for her. Thats what its all about isn't? Doing for each other.

But if you SO is doing to you I would say Ciao Baby or Zai Jian. If she is doing to you she is nothing but a manipulator. You have to be the judge of this.

164925[/snapback]

I have assisted my wife financially on a few occasions, whenever I leave China I always make sure she is comfortable even though she has never asked for money. I will pay all expenses in China when I am there with her though that can be difficult at times. Whenever she calls I always tell her "I call you back" so that I will pay for the phone service and she doesn't have to use her phone card. She currently has quit her job in expectation of coming to America soon. And I have told her not to worry about asking me to help her financially, which is very seldom, but I what her to know that I will be there for her if need be. Most Chinese from my wife's area, I believe can live very comfortably on $100-$150 American dollars a month.

165174[/snapback]

I help my wife out when there are extra expenses, like visa-related expenses, gifts for friends and family, and such, and I pay for any added costs that she bears on my behalf, like phone bills and Internet connectivity. I also send her gifts now and then. She likes that I send her extra money, but if I cannot for some reason, then she is okay with it. She says "If you send money and unhappy, don't send money." I would think the same way if the roles were reversed, so I am okay with it.

 

She does care about my 'deposit,' which I take to mean our nest egg. She wants to know that I save money and plan for the future and have that security in place. She'd like that nest egg to be bigger, but I am working on it slowly and surely. She salts away her own deposit as well, including some of the money I ask her to buy herself flowers with

 

I know about the comparisons of husbands. I think it is a common occurrence among women in general, not just Chinese women. However, it seems like my ex- was more into conversations with her friends where they complained about their husbands, rather than extolling their virtues, so that is something, right? I would spend the time to explain your point of view as best you can and then check her reaction. If she is sensitive to your point of view, you have a keeper. If she disregards it and makes more demands or guilttrips, wave the red flag high. I would give this advice regardless of your SO's geographic location or cultural upbringing.

 

Merc

[skibum]

In China, wouldn't it be a green flag for something bad? After all, when the market goes up, the numbers are in red.

 

When I spent time in China with her, I would give her money so she could pay for our meals, train tickets and such. I felt I would be insulting her by offering more money as she made plenty and gave most to her parents for their old age. Not that they need it much either but they worry about getting sick and having medical expenses.

[philb]

This subject has always been dear to me.

 

I think that every circumstance is unique. What city she lives in; her educational level; her ability to find a good job; or any job; who she is supporting?

What is your station? What is your position? What does your heart say? What does your gut tell you?

 

One thing that runs through many responses: SHE NEVER ASKED ME FOR A DIME. I broached the subject when we met in NanNing. After I had a true sense of all the questions above and had satisfied myself that IF I decided to send money, that it was not to buy her; to gain stature with her friends(face), or to to drop her into the lap of luxury; I was convinced that I should cautiously send a limited amount of money.

 

Do I send her money? Damn straight. Have I handed out red envelopes to family members? You had better. Have I traveled with her son, nephew, niece and niece's friend...you bet. WHY? Because I chose to do it. Would our relationship be alive if I had chosen to refrain? probably. Is that how I want to interact with my future wife? Withhold and test...naaah.

 

We have discussed budgets for both of us. She has seen the K-1 application. She knows what I make etc. She also knows the committments that I have. If I don't have the money at the moment? She waits. When I have traveled to NanNing (including bringing my 2 children), I take care of everything. There is no jealousy over who gets what and what priority is in place. Unfortunately ex-wives get spousal maintenance...I could go on but I'll bet that this part of money discussions is familiar with many.

 

Each person has to travel this road and make his own judgement on what to do. I labored over this one long and hard and it still can hit a nerve sometimes when I send that Western Union wire over. However, I also have a very appreciative Fiance who is just getting by and is very frugal. I'm happy with my decision and sleep very well at night - on all counts.

 

Phil

[esun41]

This subject has always been dear to me.

 

I think that every circumstance is unique.  What city she lives in; her educational level; her ability to find a good job; or any job; who she is supporting?

What is your station?  What is your position?  What does your heart say?  What does your gut tell you?

 

One thing that runs through many responses:  SHE NEVER ASKED ME FOR A DIME.  I broached the subject when we met in NanNing.  After I had a true sense of all the questions above and had satisfied myself that IF I decided to send money, that it was not to buy her; to gain stature with her friends(face), or to to drop her into the lap of luxury; I was convinced that I should cautiously send a limited amount of money.

 

Do I send her money?  Damn straight.  Have I handed out red envelopes to family members?  You had better.  Have I traveled with her son, nephew, niece and niece's friend...you bet.  WHY?  Because I chose to do it.  Would our relationship be alive if I had chosen to refrain?  probably.  Is that how I want to interact with my future wife?  Withhold and test...naaah.

 

We have discussed budgets for both of us.  She has seen the K-1 application.  She knows what I make etc.  She also knows the committments that I have.  If I don't have the money at the moment?  She waits.  When I have traveled to NanNing (including bringing my 2 children), I take care of everything.  There is no jealousy over who gets what and what priority is in place.  Unfortunately ex-wives get spousal maintenance...I could go on but I'll bet that this part of money discussions is familiar with many.

 

Each person has to travel this road and make his own judgement on what to do.  I labored over this one long and hard and it still can hit a nerve sometimes when I send that Western Union wire over.  However, I also have a very appreciative Fiance who is just getting by and is very frugal.  I'm happy with my decision and sleep very well at night - on all counts.

 

Phil

165214[/snapback]

Well said my brother...

[shimaore]

I had to pay for dowry when we got engaged (it is tradition on my side and her side ) but we had a debate about the amount - the 20,000 + RMB shows how much you consider your fiancee. we came to an agreement on the amount 9999 + a nice honeymoon to somewhere exotic.

Yes money is important for couples ( apparently one of the main cause of divorce with adultery ) ,my special one refuse for me to send her regular money - I feel it is my responsability to support her but she 's too damn proud so i had to find excuses to send her money ( travel to beijing for visa and accomodation is very expensive , oh the flight very expensive , blah blah blah ) .

I would personally discuss the fact that she compared your relationship with other relationships - how would she feel if you compared her to other attractive women you meet on a daily basis ?

[mercator]

I had to pay for dowry when we got engaged (it is tradition on my side and her side ) but we had a debate about the amount - the 20,000 + RMB shows how much you consider your fiancee. we came to an agreement on the amount 9999 + a nice honeymoon to somewhere exotic.

Yes money is important for couples ( apparently one of the main cause of divorce with adultery ) ,my special one refuse for me to send her regular money - I feel it is my responsability to support her but she 's too damn proud so i had to find excuses to send her money ( travel to beijing for visa and accomodation is very expensive , oh the flight very expensive , blah blah blah ) .

I would personally discuss the fact that she compared your relationship with other relationships - how would she feel if you compared her to other attractive women you meet on a daily basis ?

165271[/snapback]

I gave a dowry of 6633RMB. Some relatives refused to come to the wedding celebration because of the tremendous insult to my mother-in-law because it was so low. Some of them believe because I am American, my underwear must be lined with gold. I paid what I could, and 6633 was a lucky number I was told. Other relatives also received their red envelopes, though a few of them 'returned' the money to us in the form of wedding gifts for us.

 

My wife has been quite the smooth talker over there, I guess, though she informed me when I go over in the Spring, I should be prepared to buy ALOT of cigarettes and alcohol! (lol) It's ironic since I am not a smoker and one beer every six months is about all I will drink...

[pkfops]

I had to pay for dowry when we got engaged (it is tradition on my side and her side ) but we had a debate about the amount - the 20,000 + RMB shows how much you consider your fiancee. we came to an agreement on the amount 9999 + a nice honeymoon to somewhere exotic.

Yes money is important for couples ( apparently one of the main cause of divorce with adultery ) ,my special one refuse for me to send her regular money - I feel it is my responsability to support her but she 's too damn proud so i had to find excuses to send her money ( travel to beijing for visa and accomodation is very expensive , oh the flight very expensive , blah blah blah ) .

I would personally discuss the fact that she compared your relationship with other relationships - how would she feel if you compared her to other attractive women you meet on a daily basis ?

165271[/snapback]

I gave a dowry of 6633RMB. Some relatives refused to come to the wedding celebration because of the tremendous insult to my mother-in-law because it was so low. Some of them believe because I am American, my underwear must be lined with gold. I paid what I could, and 6633 was a lucky number I was told. Other relatives also received their red envelopes, though a few of them 'returned' the money to us in the form of wedding gifts for us.

 

My wife has been quite the smooth talker over there, I guess, though she informed me when I go over in the Spring, I should be prepared to buy ALOT of cigarettes and alcohol! (lol) It's ironic since I am not a smoker and one beer every six months is about all I will drink...

169664[/snapback]

I gave my mother in law $999 and my two sisters in law $200 each.

 

I was told this was well within custom and everybody was pleased.

 

And I didn't spill the tea.

 

"Returning" money in the form of gifts is common and should

not be taken as an insault.

Edited November 17, 2005 by pkfops (see edit history)

[Guest Paul]

My SO and I correspond almost every day by email and a few times a week by phone. 

 

Every couple of months, my SO gets together with friends and they gossip.  One of the topics that comes up is mney, and how much each SO receives from their American SO.  In the discussions, it seems that the more they get the better the husband.  I apparently fall in the lower end of this bracket, because I committed to give my SO $150 each month, because they have a job.  Other SO's do not work, and get $250, but I was told many of the SO's get $400, so they are good spouses.  Then I was asked to give more.  I agreed, but I mentioned how unhappy I was (I am pretty pissed, to be honest, but I tempered my reply) that they gossip about money and how much each gets.  I told my SO it was unfair to everyone to have a SO's quality judged by money.  I said that that love and devotion were much more important than money.  To me that couldn't be more true.  I personally hate talking about money.

 

I mean I know that money is a huge factor for an SO to up and leave their homeland to come to the US.  They want to know they will have comfort when they come.

 

I'm nervous about this trend, and wondering if I should be even more concerned than I already am.  Feedback from US and Chinese SO's on this topic would be WONDERFUL.

 

Thanks!

 

AoM

164803[/snapback]

Gosh, after reading your note I feel so blessed I wanna shout. While in Nanning last month I wanted to buy the SO some jeans, she said, "No, she had enough." Ok, I said, then let me buy you some new shoes. Again, she said, "No, I have plenty, I don't need any." I thought, man, this can't be, a woman who has too many shoes! She almost would not let me pay for anything, except for dinner a few times and maybe a cab or two. I found her independence very, very attractive. In fact, not once has she asked me for money, not even once, and I actually believe she never would - it's an unbelieveably stark contrast from my last American g/f. But of course the reality is that they have expenses, i.e., SIM cards, express mails, e-mail translations, etc, etc, that we'd like to help them with. So you may ask - do I help mine - yes, of course. Does she appreciate the help ... like I've never seen anyone appreciate help before - and that makes me feel great! The reality is that I'd been hit up several times from other girls in different parts of the world so I've learned the game some people play - food for thought, man.

[mercator]

My wife wouldn't let me take her shopping for anything for her. I did gift shopping for my relatives, as well as my 'wedding clothes' which were required by my mother in law as part of the tradition. I asked if she wanted to shop for her wedding clothes, since she got some money from her also. She said she could shop any time, and so she didnt want to waste the time we were together on her shopping. We did alot of walking and I offered to buy her a more comfortable pair of shoes, and she refused, it was wasteful. I did finally get to buy her some shoes when the straps on the one she had separated from the shoe. She bought a nice pair, but a pair that was about in the middle of the range of shoes they sell. She asked me if it was okay that she got that pair (maybe 40RMB / $5), in case I might think it was too expensive. hehe

 

My ex could blow $200 on a pair of shoes and not break stride...

[SheLikesME?]

My wife would not give me her address so I could not send her anything, before we met. She dislikes flowers because they die. She had a good job and always said from the beginning that she lives a comfortable life and would pay her own way.

 

Eating out I paid. Shopping she would not let me pay. We got married and she was still the same until the end of my visit where she could tell it was important to me to conrtibute. Then she became more of a team player. I cashed in all my US and left it for her. I never heard of a dowry until I read here in CFL. Also left her a credit card she never used. She feels I need to do things here in the USA for all of us. We are a family now. For her it would be about our having no debt including a house and cash in the bank or other investments. I can send her money but she does not need it. She did have to take a one year demotion from work to be on good terms when she leaves. So now her income is less but she still has no need for me to send her anything.

 

Your situation looks a little tense and like someone said you probably already know the answer.

[mercator]

She feels I need to do things here in the USA for all of us.  We are a family now.  For her it would be about our having no debt including a house and cash in the bank or other investments. 

169800[/snapback]

My wife is the same way. She doesn't want me to get her anything fancy because she says it is too expensive compared to the same item in China, plus it is so expensive to ship.

 

I want to make a third trip to China (I am already going in early Spring) but she would rather I reduce debt. (that and save for the replacement for the infamous ill-boding mattress ). I peddled some junk on ebay and made off with a few thousand dollars. I thought yippee! I'm going to China. She thought - yay - he is getting a new mattress and making his house payment.

 

LOL

Edited November 19, 2005 by mercator (see edit history)

[SheLikesME?]

She feels I need to do things here in the USA for all of us.  We are a family now.  For her it would be about our having no debt including a house and cash in the bank or other investments. 

169800[/snapback]

My wife is the same way. She doesn't want me to get her anything fancy because she says it is too expensive compared to the same item in China, plus it is so expensive to ship.

 

I want to make a third trip to China (I am already going in early Spring) but she would rather I reduce debt. (that and save for the replacement for the infamous ill-boding mattress ). I peddled some junk on ebay and made off with a few thousand dollars. I thought yippee! I'm going to China. She thought - yay - he is getting a new mattress and making his house payment.

 

LOL

170028[/snapback]

Hahaha, please excuse me while I laugh. But you know on the visit thing. I would do what I want if I wear you. I am tired of being told no, too.

 

Last night she was sort of laughing and I could tell some kind of chat was going on while we were on the earphone and trying to do a 3 way chat with my son. She agreed she was doing another chat with a friend/ acquaintance acquaintance. But not eleberating it was obviously a man acquaintance, from the net I assumed. Someone she had not communicated with in some time. So OK, I cut out mine, without being told, hmm. OK darling bye and enjoy your chat. Now I will get over it and to her it was nothing I could tell and she called me back to make sure I understood and things were ok, yea well sure sure. I don't mind so much unless it is some guy from the web site we met on, I DON"T LIKE IT. Maybe I am wrong but the 6th sense red flag went up. The local, usually married, man from work or schol I am ok with. But this crap I don't like it at all. Maybe the guy knows she is married, all my old net contacts do. So once I get this real defined again, I believe I will just do what I want regarding any visit I want to take, or we can end the whole thing now. There is going to be some fun and happiness in this thing, or.... Dang if all the fun and laughter is going to get stopped between us, well not all, over the phone or net because it is unrealistic, & etc. Or I should do this or that she tells me. And then she is off laughing in a chat with an old acquaintance dude.

 

Now all of this I am over exagerating and blowing out of proportion. She is my wife she reminded me.

 

Well, Yes dear, and WE are going to laugh together too. It ain't all hard work and discipline, dear. And another thing, quit getting mad at me about stupid stuff.

 

What the Hell was this thread about anyway, money? Oh, yea sorry all, hahaha.

 

PS: I am really going to regret postin this I am sure, because I love and trust her, but here goes.

[egolessvegan]

[.....I think this is a very interesting topic which can be viewed from several different perspectives.

Sending money to a SO in China is not an unusual occurence. This is considered acceptable behavior during the courtship,because long distance relationships can be so fragile. It is viewed as a sign of commitment by the man. I did this because I wanted my spouse to have a better quality of life. We never really discussed this topic at all .Actions speak louder than words.

My wife had a good job in China before coming to the US. Like most over there her salary was not extraordinary, but enough to pay bills and help support her 2 children.

Fortunately I could afford to help her and I WANTED to.It was a simple as that.

During my time in China, I paid for all our activity and expenses, but it was never suggested that I give other family members money. The idea of a dowry was never mentioned. In fact on the Chinese New Year I received some lucky money from her father. It made me feel like part of the family right then and there.

Over the last 2 years I have spent a good portion of money on three trips to China, visa and AOS expenses, and sending monthly expenditures to my wife in China. I never looked upon this as an inconvenience or a hardship.

I found it very pleasureable to be able to make an inpact on her life. I feel the same way now that she has been here in the US for almost 9 months.

Love does not have financial boundaries. Mine is yours and yours is mine is probably the appropriate mindset to have otherwise selfish behavior perpetuates.

The most valuable commodity within a relationship is love and NOT money. If money is the number one concern by either the husband or wife, the relationship is doomed for failure.

Good luck to all.

Ken

[jim_julian]

Last night she was sort of laughing and I could tell some kind of chat was going on while we were on the earphone and trying to do a 3 way chat with my son.  She agreed she was doing another chat with a friend/ acquaintance acquaintance.  But not eleberating it was obviously a man acquaintance, from the net I assumed.  Someone she had not communicated with in some time.  So OK, I cut out mine, without being told, hmm.  OK darling bye and enjoy your chat.  Now I will get over it and to her it was nothing I could tell and she called me back to make sure I understood and things were ok, yea well sure sure.  I don't mind so much unless it is some guy from the web site we met on, I  DON"T LIKE IT.  Maybe I am wrong but the 6th sense red flag went up.  The local, usually married, man from work or schol I am ok with.  But this crap I don't like it at all.  Maybe the guy knows she is married, all my old net contacts do.  So once I get this real defined again, I believe I will just do what I want regarding any visit I want to take, or we can end the whole thing now.  There is going to be some fun and happiness in this thing, or.... Dang if all the fun and laughter is going to get stopped between us, well not all, over the phone or net because it is unrealistic, & etc.  Or I should do this or that she tells me.  And then she is off laughing in a chat with an old acquaintance dude. 

 

Now all of this I am over exagerating and blowing out of proportion.  She is my wife she reminded me. 

 

Well, Yes dear, and WE are going to laugh together too.  It ain't all hard work and discipline, dear.  And another thing, quit getting mad at me about stupid stuff.

 

What the Hell was this thread about anyway, money?  Oh, yea sorry all, hahaha.

 

PS: I am really going to regret postin this I am sure, because I love and trust her, but here goes.

170036[/snapback]

Doug ... you have a valid point. She needs to be considerate of your norms, your feelings as, hopefully, you are of hers.

 

I would suggest a very direct approach ... factual, and devoid as possible of emotion.

 

Something like: "Honey, I know you didn't mean to cause a problem last night, but (and then explain your feelings, characterizing them as such). I must ask you please not to do this again. I know you love me and I don't doubt this but I still think like a laowei and this is just not acceptable in my culture."

 

Hopefully she will "see the light" and agree. If she does, to quote my lao po. "It's over" and don't bring it up again.

 

Good luck Doug!

[SheLikesME?]

Thanks Jim,

I am kinda laughing at my post now. I was ticked, hahahaha. I went and worked at my churches welfare center today, restocking in the freezers and coolers. Hope I don't catch cold. But some good hard work sure sets ones mind strait. I was thinking I will not bring it up. But knowing me I probably will. Your aproach sounds reasonable. I know I have nothing to worry about. This is sort of why I enjoyed being in China and would love to live there now. I am much much calmer and happy in China. Of course I love America, Texas, and home.

 

I just heard of a man who got an offer from Ford to transfre there. He won't do it. I told his mother in law how nice it is. The man has no idea what he is turning down. Neither did his mother in law have any comprehension either.

 

Somehow my wife has had it in her head that now we are married we must forget the crazyness that got us together. We must be so strict with money and education, and work, that I get bothered by the priority. Otherwise I would not have any jealousey over this little incident. I might be ticked, but hmm, more thought. I will work it out. Thanks for your advice Jim.