Charlotte

As to what to watch and what is good for you, it is only relatively speaking. Cartons work for some, soaps work for others. Back when there was no TVs, there was no shortage of language geniuses. Language abilitly has direct link to age -- the older you are, the more difficult it becomes, and more accent you will pick up. Kids under 12 would need to worry more about their native languages than their English here. My niece came to Canada Xmas 2000, at age 10. On Xmas 2003, she talked over an hour to me on the phone only in English, accent free. Last time I called, I thought my sister-in-law picked up the phone, so I spoke Chinese to her, it turned out to be my niece and she stuttered some Chinese to me and I could not believe it -- she stumbled through telling me where her parents were! This is someone whose parents brought over the entire set of Chinese/math text books up to high school from China. They are tutoring her at home weekly. I also know quite a few of my friends, whose children either came very young or were born here, they are taking them to the Chinese school at weekends -- imagine - these kids have no weekends to speak of. I often recommend to those parents: speak only Chinese to them at home. But the irony is the parents really need to learn English from their Children, too. Oh, well, you can't have it all -- do the best you can.

This post is meant more for the American halves: I have read quite a few posts out there describing how your other halves adjust /not adjust to the way of life you are accustomed to. I have to give my thumbs up to most of you who are really trying and bending backwards to please your partners. I even use some examples to tease my husband that he got it easy: look what other husbands have to do for their Chinese wives, J!” Being both head-strong, we had our shares of arguments, misunderstandings, laughs and tears, but in the end, we are still together – that all matters. There are areas we draw the lines that neither of us would budge (I still can’t pinch his nose, forbidden territory J). Back to the topic: There is more than comprising to help your other half feel welcome in this country. While most Chinese here are quite successful in their career and live their American dreams, I know a lot of them still don’t feel it home here. Hence, here is what I would like to suggest to the American halves: (please ignore if this does not apply to you) While accepting the culture difference from your wives is very admirable, it is also important for you to teach your spouses to adjust into your American culture, and learn to “to do as the Romans do.” I can see many of you can put up with all kinds of “Chinese ways” at home. But you need to consider home is not the only environment for them in this country. Some day you may want to bring your wife to visit your friends and relatives out of town. The wet bathroom floor at is home is acceptable, but at a guest' s house this may be considered as proper. I am grateful to my husband, who has a very subtle way to let me know if any of my Chinese ways would puzzle Americans. In my early days in this country, I had all the unsightful Chinese table manners you mentioned in the posts, e.g.: slurping soups, spitting fish bones on table, talk with mouth-full at the table and not having the table set up when the dinner guests arrived, etc, all of which were really no big deal in China. In a social environment, I would talk too loud, interrupt people’s conversation, or open the doors without knocking first. All of above, only a family member can put up with you or help you get over with. Every now and then, Rudi would sit down with me telling what bothered him when we had company and explained why. I would find them as excuses of being a Chinese. As unpleasant as it may sound to me, I did take Rudi’s advice to heart and, bit by bit, adjusted to his European/American (in his words “civilized society”) etiquette, which benefited me beyond measure to this day. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t pretend to act like Americans, but only behave like an educated citizen here. I don’t want to hide my heritage. I look Chinese and speak Chinese. I have wonderful working relationship with all levels of people. Every place I work, I would give my co-workers’ names in Chinese characters (at their request) and they also become regular customers to a Chinese restaurant of my choice. They can’t sneak any jokes under my nose, and frequently I come up with good ones with some Chinese flavor – as I often said to them “I am trained by expert.” They are amazed at how I switch between the languages at the Chinese restaurant. My language background in combination with my willingness to adopt the new environment has enabled me to communicate more effectively than some other Chinese here, which brings me to another point: English – sending her to an ESL school is not enough! This has to come from her initiatives. For many of your wives, ESL levels here are too low for them. She may feel great in class, but still not able to convey her thoughts and ideas freely. Other than you, TV and movies would be the 2nd best teachers. I watched soap operas and followed two of them for 12 years. They are non-sense, of course, but a great place to pick up a lot of idiomatic terms, sayings, and slangs. I did have the advantage because I was teaching English at a university before I came. I may have the vocabulary; I did not know how bad my listening compression was until I arrive in US. I could not understand Johnny Carson, caught only half of the national news with the help of pictures. But my husband’s help and my non-stopping TV watching paid off in a very short period of time. Today Rudi is going over vocabulary with my daughter daily for anything she highlighted through her daily readings – like an intensive English class in my college years. Anything they get stuck in between, I would come to the rescue -- in this sense, my daughter is very lucky and her progress is obvious -- 10 months here, she is already speaking free of accent and in her first sophmore semester - she did a 4.0 GPA of 16 credit hours. I wish you all a very successful relationship. Comprise in only behavior, but not your culture/social etiquettes. If you go to China, don’t put salt and pepper in your food served by your in-laws (which is why my husband is not impressed with my mother’s cooking J). On the other hand, your wife should always have salt and pepper shakers on the table when she serves your American dinner guests. ---- Again, "do as the Romans do!!!" I would say, anything you consider rude or weird here, she should improve, and anything she consider improper in China, you should not do there, either! Good luck to you all and happy New Year!

Dave, It is very admirable for you to put up with this! I don't know of any Chinese families in this country gettingup this early for Chinese NY any more. It looks like you have more culture tolerance than anyone else I know about. Hope your wife and step-son appreciate your extraordinary effort. This is the first time they are away from China for the CNY, it will wear off as time goes on. Consider the show as a Thanksgiving parade -- there are some nice pieces there, but get boring sometimes. I usually borrow a tape from a friend to watch it afterwards, but my husband only likes the part where pretty girls in dresses are dancing or singing-- if they are dressed up like boys, forget about it. Instead of putting him through the agony, I just watch show myself, and call his attention when something to his like coming up. My daughter does not even like it when she was in China -- so with busy school now, she even forget about it is NYE today! 14 years here, my celebration of Chinese New Year here is calling my family and friends in China (not necessary on the day) and a nice restaurant dinner. All my co-workers who like Chinese food will go to lunch with me. Happy Monkey Year to all!

Talking about wet towels, my husband still complains about my wet towel in the kitchen -- he likes to use sponge, but I like to use hot wet towel to clean the grease. The comprimise is: we have both sponge and wet towel in the kitchen -- I just have to hang it out when I am done. Talking about bath towels-- When I visited my sister last summer, they could not keep up with my demand for bath towels. I promised them I will bring my own towels next time I stay at her house. They dry everything in the sun - get very touch -- they don't have dryer or softener there. In this respect, American life spoiled me big time! Judging the appearance, cities like Shanghai look a lot fancier than many cities in the US. However, the quality of day to day life -- small things like towels, paper towels, tissues, napkins, public restrooms, customer serivices, etc, you can still tell the huge difference. I have seen a quite a few posts relating this culture difference. Having been here for almost 14 years in a entirely American environment, I will start a different topic about how you -- the American half could help your spouse/step children to adjust/merge into this society. I have seen many Chinese here -- with good jobs and big houses here, but deep down, they feel lonely here, longing to go back home when they retire. They don't feel comfortable at company parties, don't catch jokes at work. I feel very luck in this respect -- I never feel like an outsider among Americans -- they treat me likewise -- my husband is a major contributor in my adjusting to the life here. Your spouse could accomplish that too because they have the same advantage as I do. No 1 job for them to be successful is to get the language skill, regardless what they intend to do, no matter how good their English is at this point, and the best teacher should be you, right at home. I am still learning from my husband every day. He is a walking encyclopedia for both me and my daughter.

Congratulations, Tine and Ella! Hope Ella and the baby doing well!

Ditto here! If you live in a small town, the ring stuff is like something from outer space -- they may have heard of it, but no practice in this area. I would not let American docs practice on me in this area. Yes, if you want it removed, better get it done in China or find a Chinese Gynacologist who practiced in China before. American docs could turn this small procedure into a big operation. By the time they are done with you, the medical bill alone would afford you a round trip to China and get it removed. Even if you have insurance coverage, there is still no guarrentee for the safety in their procedures if they did not have much practice in that area. I have high opionion in western medicine -- they cure people who are uncurable, but many times due to the mal-practice law suits (thanks to the lawyers), the doctors here tend to overkill for some non-emergency cases. 30 - 50% of post-child bearing age women have their uterus removed. Researchers find out the majority of those surgeries were unnecessary. So before any of you decide to go into anything major in here, a 2nd opionion is always a good idea; even a trip to China would be worth the trouble in some cases. I would trust American doctors surgical skills, but diagonosis is a different story ---- remember "Practice makes perfect." Docs in China have over a billion people to practice on!!!

If I have legal documents to allow me to work in this country, working for a Chinese business -- restaurant or not -- will be at the bottom of my choice list. Before I have to move to a homeless shelter, I would apply at a Chinese restaurant because many of them do supply room and board. Ask her to apply at local supermarket or mall stores. Just my personal observationa and opinion. Good luck to her!

Sorry I have to disagree here: The national Flag --- five stars DO NOT represent 5 races -- the big star represents Communist Party; the other 4 represent the 56 ethnic groups (including Han) in China that are led by the Party. The flag became national flag in 1949 when the CP took over China. This was designated as above; no new political significance was assigned to it as far as I recall.

1. I am a "true Chinese" too. Frankly I don't know what he meant -- but Han (which most of us are) is the majority in China -- maybe that 's what he referred to. 2. I am also a naturalized citizen, but my passport looks the same as native born citizens here.

The chance of getting mad cow disease is one in a billion --- guess better chance to win a powerball lottery Can't help it -- just love steaks, which is the best dish Americans ever invented!

No, this does not qualify as a disability. I have been here long enough and knowing a lot of friends'children going through this including my own niece coming to Canada at age 10 It is her parents that have to struggle with English daily! During her first semester in school, she sat in a French class (required in Canada) and did not know it was French until 5 classes later, LOL! -- 2 years later, today- she only talks English t(free of accent) to me on the phone! Now to the question of your 12 year old education problem: if you don't like the district you are in, you may have to move. Otherwise you can just let her/him go like all other Americans. Kids at that age don't need ESL classes (for adults only). She may need to struggle for a year or two, but she will do well in science subject, which will give her confidence. Don't worry -- in 5-10 years, you and wife need to worry about her CHINESE, not her English! So let her go through the school like the other American kids. Soon she will speak better English than your wife and will drop all the accents. The abiliity to speak a foreign language goes hand-in- hand with age --- the older you are, the harder it gets. So far there is no exception to this rule! Home schooling is not suitable for a kid for whom English is a second language.

Hi Li, Welcome to CDL. Please don't be afraid of making mistakes. Writing on CDL is a good practice to improve your English. None of posts here is perfect -- we all make mistakes here and there, as long as the idea gets across. You can only learn to swim if you are in the water yourself. CDL is nicer to girls than boys -- So don't worry -- join the discussion and share your experience with everyone here.

This is a very effective way to go. You only need to take your Chinese docs to them and let them know you want in both languages -- and so far all their work has been accepted by the NVC and INS offices. Here is a list my daughter had it done before she went to GZ: 1. Birth certificate 2. High school diploma & transcript 3. Single certificate 4. Police record certificate All of above were issued in Chinese originally. This is only for your immigration services only -- she may not need highschool info, just did it for convenience. For school documents, both my husband and I did the translations for my friends and his students and they all worked, if the school did not require notarized docs.

Mick, please tell Li: she needs to eat as much protein as possible. Nuts and lean meats are good stuff. I could eat half a duck at one sitting when I was pregnant with my daughter. She was born 8lb, of course I gained 25lb, too. I always believe protein helps grow brain cells. Looks like it works. The first semester here, in the midterm tests, she is already No 1 in all of her 5 courses she signed on. And she speaks with hardly any accent already. On the phone, you can't tell she has just come from China any more. She is very, very happy to be here and pleased with the college school systems here. My best wishes to Li!

Mick, I finally got the time to read it -- had a good laugh and I have to print it out for my husband, who is of no internet personality. Thanks for sharing PS: Greetings to Li and congratulations on you both. Hope she is doing fine.

Well, I have to speak for 95% of the Chinese who changed their first names into Amerian names. We certainly don't want to hide our identities, neither do we want to appear American, for we are happy the way we look; more and more I think like an American, which I have to if I work with them. My 14 years in this country have been nothing but wonderful life experience of interactiing with Americans because I don't live close to any big cities in this country. Now to clarify why many of us changed our first names --- the reason is very simple: Americans can't pronounce our names right. Some old timers my remember me writing on a name change topic. Certain names start with X, Z, C, ZH, etc. sound very funny or even distorted when pronounced by my American professors/collegues. I could not recognize my name being called when I first started my classes in Texas. People tend to pronounce a foreigh name according to their own native language. I would still recommend to change your first names that are not easy for Americans to pronounce. Names like: Min, Lin, Shan Yan are very easy and even sound pretty to Americans -- I would probably keep. Here is the related topic link: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index....faaa35e0494e2fa

You raise a very good point Brian. I know that when I lived in China I could have bought property there, at a somewhat inflated price and would have also needed to go through quite a bit of red tape. If a former Chinese citizen, who is now an American citizen, wants to buy property, I would suspect they would have to go through the same hoops as any other foreigner. Again, this is a good point and pertinent to those who may plan to return to China to live in the future. As far as extended visits are concerned, again I would expect they would be subject to the same laws as a natural born American. I could be wrong, however. Charlotte, any ideas on this? How about you Owen? There used to 2 prices for Chinese and foreigners. But this has all changed since 2002, I believe, or later. I don't know about other places, but in Shanghai, there is one price now - regardless of who is buying. Of course this ONE price has made housing price more unaffordable to average Chinese citizens. Nevertheless, with this transitional market economy, no one is for sure what is going one behind the scene; there is enough briberies and corruptions that could make your head spin. I would not recommend using a American passport to purchase property in China if you have Chinese relatives help you out in China. I personally would only buy property for my parents and this way it is in their name, just my money.

How difficult was it to swear allegiance to the US (basically denying your country of origin)? I can't imagine how difficult that would be regardless of the circumstances. To me, this is more of a personal choice than any kind political rights since I never went out to vote for any of those presidents or government officers. (Please do not elaborate on this --it is a free country.) China does not recognize the dual citizenship; neither does USA. For some, it may be hard to give up their homeland citizenship, but for me this was the choice I made when I decided to apply for a green card. To this day, I do not regret being a US citizen for many obvious reasons (that I don’t want to get into). This does not preclude me from loving my home country. I am as much a US citizen as a native Chinese (this does not change my origin), who is very proud of our Chinese culture and heritage. For all practical purposes, becoming a US citizen does not change who you are, but rather, what you believe in. As Mick stated earlier, I don’t have to agree with what our president says or does, but AS A CITIZEN, I have to support the decisions our commander-in-chief makes under any circumstances – which is what I pledged at the swear-in ceremony and which I will stand by as long as I am a US citizen.

TO BE OR NOT TO BE a US citizen– this is my personal experience For those who don't know me, I came here in 1989 and have became a US citizen since 1996. PROS: 1. You can travel to most countries in the world without a visa. (#1 benefit in my opinion) 2. You are not affected by the political swings on the immigrant issues, most of which are related to social welfare systems. 3. You can work federal gov’t jobs that require citizen status. CONS: 1. You have to go through the visa application every time you want to visit China. It gets costly as US raises the visa fee, China reciprocated too. For a family like ours, I have to apply one for my husband, therefore, not really additional work, just additional $$$ needed. So far, I can’t think of any other advantage or disadvantage between a citizen and a permanent resident. One thing I have to say is that ONLY in the US, this is almost treated equal – can’t imagine this can happen in any other country in the world. This is truly LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE, which is why we have seen many people willing to risk their lives to come to this country (remember the ones come in those containers?).

Hi Bluebird, Welcome to the site! You are right; this is a very positive site with people from all walks of life willing to share their opinions and knowledge about life experience in both countries. I (from Shanghai) myself was drawn into this for the unexpected delay of my little girl's immigration visa. I can claim myself as one of the oldtimers -- together we finally get GZ & DOS act on the issuance of the visas finally. Although I did not come as a fiancee, I did married a German-American 11 years ago when I was attending the graduate school here. He turned out to be the most wonderful husband I could ever dreamed of and with my daughter here now, he is also the best step-father she can ever find. Coming from 2 totally different cultures, there are inevitable conflicts and different interests. But they can be overcome by understanding and comprises. Only time is the rea test for any relationship. Hope to see more posts from you. I have not been too active lately due to the crazy 2004 budgeting time!

While it maybe no sweat for one, it can be a big deal for another -- all depends on who is processing your paper and what kind of political situation we are under and how well they understand the REAL CHINA --- who would have thought of 9/11 and the name clearance 2 years ago? If I were in your shoes, I would adopt "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Do not lie on any paperwork (will come back and haunt you later), however, unless a question like: "Are you a communist party (youth league) member?" and you will have to tell the truth, I would not volunteer any information that may be sensitive for background checking, etc. Kate is right -- once you write it down, it will be in your immigration file for life. No sweat, but why bother??? Just my 2 cents.

Robhon, I understand your frustration, but please don't get too much worked up on this. I spent most of my lifetime in China dealing with those people. Here is what I think you can do: First of all: just to shut them up, it is easier to get a statement from your employer (human Resource) stating that you do or don't have any children and have it translated and notirized. This can be done in China too, all higher education institutions have translating services. If you can't provide some documents ( having children here already), still no big deal. They can't force her to abort the baby because it is dangerous to both the baby and the mother at this stage. The law protects her right if not the baby. For her to avoid the stress before the delivery, she should stay away from those local officials. Whether she can bring the baby to the US is up to the US immigration policy, not the Chinese local government. The best way to deal with them is not to reason with them, but to stay as far away as possible. If she is not working and she does not need any more documents from any local government offices, there is NOTHING on earth they can do to hurt her in any way. Those are local government officers -- they sometimes tend to go extra miles to execute rules and regulations that was not the intent of the central government. They can get away with it if people don't fight back. I don't think you should spend too much time on this "one-child" thing. I would rather be spending time on pushing the immigration process. Just my 2 cents, Good luck to you all!

To the previous post: given a wrong visa package --- As much as I don't like the way GZ handling the visa processing, I have some reservation to believe this story There are too many loose ends need to be tied up before you post a story like this: 1. According to your posted case number, this is a 2003 case, which means your I130/I129 was not filed until this year; is it too fast to get her visa in early July, given that there were two big holidays in both US and China during this period? 2. Even with a hole in the envelope, how can she see all the information she needs to call you? 3. Why did you exchange the packages without notifying the GZ consulate? Under any circumstance, this is a serious case of gross negligence. Whoever made this mistake will result in dismissal if you report this to the consulate officials. One can only imagine the serious consequences of the mixed-up packages, which you should not let it go unnoticed by GZ consulate. 4. How do you find out your package is hers? Is your envelope also having a hole in it by chance? If you open it, you won¡¯t be able to enter the US even with the correct name on it. No way the INS will let an unsealed envelope into the country to process your immigration paper. 5. How can you know for sure that the girl from Tianjin got her own package now? Could it be a 3 people mixed up? 6. What a coincident that you happen to live in GZ? 7. Last but not least, how can you enter the US with your most important package with a hole in it? If one can see all the information about you through a hole in a sealed envelope, it should not be considered sealed any more and won¡¯t be accepted at the POE. All in all, you story does not add up. If what you said is true, both of you should go to GZ consulate and return both packages for them to double check and reseal them. Why didn¡¯t you do that? Not that GZ can¡¯t make that kind of mistake, the chance is almost to none. There is a double/triple checking system built in before a visa is issued. No such mix-up during the worst time of the issue days back in Jan-April 2003. Things are improving tremendously, so why now? They are processing thousands of visas annually ¨C without a good built-in system, this mixed up packages would be a frequent occurrence. So far I have never heard of it. Most people on candle site are very compassionate and gullible because we have been through a lot. Between Nov 2002 and March 2003, CDL site was serving as a lifeline to most of us. I just don¡¯t want this place to become the rumor-fabricating site. If your story is true, I dare to verify your incident with GZ officer to prove your innocence since I think it will in turn improve their process effectiveness, and I will apologize to your on this board for doubting your story. And if it is true, please take my advice and go back the GZ to ask them seal the HOLE for you before you leave for US.

Congratulations, Dave and Sarah! So glad to see so many get through this process smoothly. Very, very happy for you both. Still pray for those who are in the middle of it.

Hi Tim, When you start that post, I will follow up with one on the difference between a western/American husband and a Chinese husband. Good luck on your new venture in China!