carhil24

Don't know, chapter 1 wore me out!

Okay Rob, here you go, the 9 letters of HAPPINESS: H for HOME: I know it's already been said many times in this forum, and even on this thread, but you cannot overestimate the importance of your home to your coming fiancee/bride. Do whatever it takes to ensure that it is clean when she arrives. Do it yourself, hire a cleaning service or a maid, whatever, but make sure that it is clean upon her arrival. And not just clean, but uncluttered. Bachelors have a tendency to accumulate things, and keep things in disorganized (although we know where to find it) piles scattered around in various locations of the home. Women, in general, tend to have a place for everything, and generally every place is neat and tidy. Make sure you have lots of extra hangers (and no, guys, door knobs, chair backs, and bed posts are not considered hangers), on-hand cleaning materials, and plastic bags to throw out the trash ("your stuff"). Also, be prepared to give up the drawers (before my wife came, I had 11 drawers of things, now I have 2 (of course, she has the other 9 ). A for AQUAINTANCES: If you haven't already done so, try to meet some other Chinese/American or Chinese couples in your area. During the time I was waiting for my wife, I met several couples, and by the time she got here, I had quite a few people waiting and wanting to meet her. So when she arrived, she already had a built-in network of possible friends, and today several of these people are our very good friends. You cannot underestimate the importance (especially if she doesn't speak much English) of her having friends and people she can converse with in her own language. I think that more than anything else, this helps eases the fears and concerns she might have about coming to America. It is a very big help for her to see and meet other Chinese people who have immigrated to America and are enjoying a happy life. P for PREPARATION: Above all, make sure that you have prepared everything to the best of your ability, down to the smallest of details. This will help her make her feel less insecure during those first few weeks. Remember, she is leaving her own country (probably for the very first time) and everything and everyone she knows, and coming to a place where she doesn't know anyone and has very little understanding of life in America. When speaking with other Chinese/American couples, this is one of the items brought up by the Chinese wives, that is, how secure their husbands made them feel upon arrival. It seems to me (and please, if any Chinese women are reading this, correct me if I am wrong) that most Chinese women consider security to be more important than romance. I don't mean to insinuate that they are more concerned about money rather than love, but instead, that they are more concerned about the ability of the man to take care of them, rather than the age difference, looks or lack thereof, or material possessions. Oftentimes I ask my wife why does a 30-something Chinese woman marry a 50-something (or older) man, and she replies that Chinese women feel more secure with someone who is somewhat older than them. You will find out that above everything else, your Chinese wife is a very practical person. P for PATIENCE: Guys, this is something that most of us have to work on. In general, we are not very patient people, especially here in America. We are used to instant-gratification, and have a very poor track record when it comes to waiting for something. Don't expect your wife to come to America and instantly fit in, it rarely happens. When she first arrives, you can probably look forward to 3 or 4 weeks of a combination of jet-lag, time-difference, homesickness, culture shock, etc. And during that time, she will undoubtedly be overly-tired, unexplicably moody, and occasionally short-tempered. In short, she might not be that always-smiling, full of energy, happy with life lady you met when you visited her in China. Be patient and don't give up or think that you made a bad choice! That same lady that you were willing to cross so many BCIS hurdles for, and endure countless days feeling helpless because of the seemingly never-ending wait, is still there somewhere! Give her time, and the lady you fell in love with will emerge and then you will know that your life has changed for the better. Those first few weeks will take an enormous amount of patience on your part, and if you have it, your relationship in America will be off to a very smooth start. I for INVOLVMENT: If at all possible (and I know that it is difficult because a lot of us take a lot of time off work going to China to bring our fiancees/wives back after the interview) try to take a couple of weeks off upon her arrival. When your wife/fiancee first arrives, you will need to be very involved in every aspect of your lives together. By this I mean, you will have to spend a lot of time together, showing and instructing her in a variety of areas you might have never thought of. Things that we take for granted, she may not know, such as the operation of the washer-dryer, microwave, telephone, computer, etc. And if she does not speak very much English, she will have trouble understanding the labels on food, cleaning materials, etc. For a while, it will seem as if you are teaching a child, and will require your complete involvment, as well as the afore-mentioned patience. Don't expect her to know which food products need to be refrigerated after opening, or which food items cannot be refrozen after thawing. Don't expect her to know how to operate the range, the heat pump, or even the vacuum cleaner. All of this will require your involvment at first. And be careful, because sometimes you will fall into the trap of treating your fiancee/wife like a child, when in fact obviously she is not. My wife is very intelligent in areas that I am just a dummy in, and I am constantly in awe of her knowledge of herbs and foods and the benefits and preparation of such. But at the same time, while we were helping our friends in their Chinese restaurant one day, I realized too late that she did not know how to shut the spigot off on the 30-gallon coffee urn, and the result was a lot of coffee on the floor! Or the time when she used baking soda instead of corn starch for the coating for pork for a dish similar to sweet and sour pork (she saw me use the white stuff in the yellow box and thought it was the same stuff ). But these are the kinds of times that really enrich our lives, and we still laugh about them! For awhile guys, your lives will be turned upside-down, but I for one would not trade it for all of the money in the world! N for NECESSITIES: A rice steamer, a good wok (not the electric-type that plug in, but a real Chinese wok), and other Chinese cooking-utensils are what first come to my mind. A Chinese knife (what we call a cleaver) and a chopping board/block are definite necessities. Remember guys, the phone number of the nearest pizza place on a refrigerator magnet will not be considered food preparation once your wife arrives. Other suggestions, maybe not necessities, but important none the less: New towels and wash cloths, new bedsheets and bedding, and maybe a new set of pots and pans or dishes (Chinet doesn't count ). Generally, it will be a good idea to wait before purchasing most of this, since she will undoubtedly know what she wants, and when she feels up to it, take her on a major shopping trip. Remember, you will also need things that you have never needed before, I hope, such as feminine hygiene products, and various other toiletries that we guys have no idea the purpose of, but what our wives consider to be a necessity. E for ENGLISH: This has already been mentioned previously, but it is important to remember. I am not sure which is more important, the driver's license or English lessons, but both of them will rank way up there in terms of importance to your wife/fiancee. My wife, who could not speak much English when she arrived, told me early on that "in America, if you cannot speak English, it is like you have no tongue, and if you cannot drive, it is like you have no legs." When she told me that one day, it really helped me to understand the feeling of helplessness our wives/fiancees probably feel upon first arriving to America. Especially when you realize that most Chinese women are very productive-minded, and it is very hard to be productive in America if you cannot drive or speak English. Prior to her coming, you need to look into ESL classes if available, or ESL courses and books that can be bought via the Internet. There are a lot of good resources out there, especially if you live a the larger metropolitan areas with a large Chinese population. S for SHOPPING: You cannot underestimate the importance of finding a good, clean Asian Supermarket near your home. Unfortunately, where I live, the closest one for us is 2-1/2 hours away, but because my work takes me there rather often, we tend to make the trip at least two times a month, sometimes more. Most of these markets will have the vegetables and food products that cannot be found in the normal grocery stores we used to visit, and your wife/fiancee will be able for the most part, find the same type of products she was able to find in her city. And if your wife is from the north, like mine is, and craves really hot, spicy food, then try to find a Korean market as well. When we go on these shopping trips together, I am pretty much the cartman, I follow her and push the cart, and she fills it up with all types of food, some of which is still unrecognizable to me. Usually, by the time it ends up on our dinner table, it is very delicious, and for the most part I don't need to know exactly what it was. What you don't know, won't hurt you, right? S for SPECIAL: I will finish this up by reminding you that the reason you went to all of this trouble with the BCIS and GZ, is because you met a very special woman that you want to spend the rest of your life with. She is unique in the fact that she loves you so much she is willing to give up everything and everyone for the unknown. Her friends, her family, her country, her culture, all left behind for you. Sometimes just thinking about that should cause you to understand the immense responsibility you must undertake when you ask your fiancee/wife to join you in America. It is a responsibility that cannot be taken lightly, and occasionally I read some posts where I am not certain that sometimes us guys totally understand this. Never, ever underestimate the value of what your fiancee/wife has given up for you, and in order to do so, she has to be a very special person. Remember when the moods are not always upbeat, the smiles are not always there, and the relationship is not always perfect, your wife is still that very, very special person who was willing to give up everything for you. And be very, very thankful, because that is such a rare quality in today's world. You have a very SPECIAL woman, so make sure that everyday she knows that you consider her to be more SPECIAL than anyother woman in the world. If you can do this, she will make your life more special than you had ever thought possible. I know, because my wife is, and my life is. Thanks for listening, and I wish you, and all of you who are eagerly waiting the arrival of your wife/fiancee, the very best of life.

Yes, but most of these folktales do contain some truth to them. You are correct, you cannot catch a cold just be going out into the rain without your coat and hat, however, you can lower your resistance to catching a cold by being cold and wet if and when you come into contact with that germ. With regards to the navel issue, who knows, and more importantly, who cares? If they want to believe that, let them, it doesn't bother me at all. If my wife becomes pregnant, and wants to cover the navel on our child for 3 months, why would I care? If it makes her happy, I'm happy! She is always telling me that this vegetable or this fish is good for some part of my body (have you ever noticed, however, that the worse it tastes, the better it is for you? ), and who am I to dismiss her beliefs? And personal experience has shown me on several occasions that the Chinese herbs she has bought to cure a variety of ailments do work, and are usually a lot safer to take than some of these so-called "scientific" products on the market today. I would fear the day that I could be so arrogant as to dismiss over 5000 years of Chinese medicinal history, and believe that we in America have all of the answers!

Because he gets off when others respond to his digs. If all of you would just ignore his posts, he will soon lose interest.

Hello all, I wanted to post this for all of you who sometimes get discouraged through out this whole process, and at times wonder why you are going through all this trouble to bring your loved ones to America. My wife cannot only speak Mandarin, but being from Mudanjiang, can also speak Korean (her family is of Korean descent---don't ask me to explain how this works, but when she speaks to her family, she usually speaks Korean, although they are considered to be Chinese---she tried to explain it to me once, but I got lost right away---maybe one of the Chinese members can explain this). Anyway, occasionally we visit this Korean Baptist Church which is about 5 minutes away from the house. It gives her the chance to speak and hear Korean, and she doesn't want her daughter to forget how to speak and understand it as well. And although I can speak halfway decent Mandarin, I cannot speak nor understand one iota of Korean. But as the saying goes, "when duty calls...(Wo shi hen ting hua de lao gong!) Anyway, most of the times we have gone, I am the only Caucasian person in the service, but today was different. Today there was a family of 6 Russian people as well. It is a long story as to why they were there, and I won't be able to delve into that, but as I was sitting there seeing that family, I thought, only in America could you find a American man, sitting next to his Korean-speaking Chinese wife and daughter with their Korean Baptist friends, listening to a Baptist preacher using a Korean Bible, and preaching in Korean to a Russian preacher and his family who recently immigrated from Moscow. I seriously doubt that you could find this scenario anywhere else in the world, and there are very few places that allow the freedom to do so. Yes, there will be arguments for the rest of our lives debating the immigration laws, the multi-cultural problems, the multi-language issues, and the eroding of our freedoms, but sometimes it makes you really proud to be an American when you take a step back and reflect on what it really means to the rest of the world to be an American. At times, I too, get really disgusted with this country and its inept government, but there are other times when I thank God that I was born an American! For those of you who are still waiting, hang in there, there is a light at the end of this tunnel, no matter how dark, bleak, and hopeless it may seem. I know it's been said time and time again in this forum, but don't ever give up! For those of you in America waiting for your loved ones, all of this will seem like a distant dream (nighmare?) once your family is whole again, and you will daily thank God for your fortune and blessings. For those of you on the other side of the Pacific (and Atlantic) still waiting to join us, don't give up, your time is coming, and the rest of us are waiting to welcome you with open arms! God bless you!

Yes, it's either 15 or 16, I had that information at one time. However, if you wish to have a very legitimate piece of ID for her when she arrives in America, this works very well. Especially for school registration, vaccination requirements, etc. All of them looked at her passport (with visa inside) and most made photo copies as well. And when leaving it seemed to expedite everything as if you are divorced with children involved, you cannot get a passport for your child unless you have full legal custody (they don't want one parent taking the child out of the country without the other parent's permission if he or she has legal custody. By the way, the information I got regarding this came directly from a judge in China, as we had some difficulties at the beginning of the process with this, and we actually had to go through the Chinese court system to get it resolved!

I dug up my step-daughter's passport, and it clearly states that the visa expired on Oct 2, 2003, exactly 6 months from date of issue, the same as my wife's. So, I do not believe that you have up to a year.

Hello Bill, Since we also brought a 12 year old daughter with us via the K-2, I think I can answer two of your questions, but because she made the journey the same time as her mother, I am not sure about the other two. 1. Although her daughter accompanied my fiancee into the interview, they did not interview her daughter whatsoever. I believe that they do not interview them under the age of 15, and it might even be under the age of 18. However, since the visa normally is issued at that time, and I believe it is only good for 6 months (please disregard this if I am wrong about the time frame) then I think that either she would have to come over before the 6 months are up, or you will have to start the process for the daughter all over again. I am not certain of this since my wife's daughter came with her, and maybe someone else will have additional information. But if I am correct about the time frame, you might want to ensure that she is able to come within those 6 months. I am also thinking that if it was necessary to repetition for the daughter, that it also might necessitate the return of her mother for the interview process, since the daughter is definitely a minor. 2. Yes, basically the documents are the same, with some exceptions. But in order for the daughter to come over on a K-2 without having to repetition, you would have had to included her in the original petition. Since you did not state whether you had done that or not, I will assume that you did. If so, I don't believe that there is any additional paperwork in P3 that needs to be done, and they will not do a security/name check on the daughter. When you receive P4, there will be some forms that will need to be filled out for the daughter as well (DS-256 comes to mind), but not all of the forms are necessary for her because she is a minor. However, keep in mind that you will definitely need her Birth Certificate and a document that states that the mother has legal custody. A passport is not necessary, but it is a good idea, especially for ID purposes. When we received the visa, they actually put a visa in her daughter's passport as well. 3. I didn't realize the medical report was valid for a year, but if so, then I don't see why that would be a problem. Again, the medical examination is a little bit different for minors, for certain she does not need a chest examination, and less vaccinations, if I remember correctly. 4. You do not need any specific document stating that her father releases her to go to America, but without a doubt you will need the above-mentioned document stating that the mother has full legal custody of the daugher. We ran into that problem early on in our quest, and it was only solved by paying her father approximately $2400.00 "to reimburse him for her insurance." If she does not have legal custody of the daughter, she will not be able to get a passport for her, and definitely will not be able to acquire a K-2 visa. I hope that some of this helps, and I apologize for not remembering everything, but it has been almost 8 months now, and I can't recall all of the fine details anymore. Feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have regarding the process, also any questions you might have concerning the daughter and the adjustment to America. Let me know where you are, we live in Redding, CA.

Congratulations, Jim! This is Carl, please call me. I lost your phone number and haven't been able to contact you lately. I didn't even realize this was you until I went through all of your posts. I don't get on this site as often as I used to, and didn't know that you had joined. I will PM you with my phone number. If you call, I can answer a lot of your questions regarding the interview. If anyone else has a lot of questions regarding the interview, please post and I will do my best to come here and answer more often! Thanks, Carl & Hongyu

Oh, what a tangled web we weave... Chris, a word of caution here. Back in the good ol days earlier this year, I and a few others on this site had some dealings with a person in the DOS with the initials of AS (some of you old timers know who I am speaking of). I am convinced to this day, that if not for the intervention of this person, our case still might be lost somewhere between GZ and NVC. However, that is not my point. My point is, that during several conversations via phone with this gentleman, he informed me that he was very aware of this site, and had upon several occasions read many of the posts herein. You have to remember, that during the good ol days, a lot of people on this site were raising a very big ruckus both at GZ and DOS. Now I am fairly certain that there are still DOS/GZ employees who are aware of this site, and quite possibly log in and read the posts to see what we are saying about them. And now you have the audacity (ignorance?) to post your intention of trying to defraud the system, thinking that no one in one of those offices might see it? This has got to be one of the least intelligent posts I have seen on this site, and I sure hope that you know what you are doing. At the very least, if you are going to do something this moronic, don't go around and tell hundreds of other people you are going to do so. You don't know who might be listening or watching! Personally, I think you ought to take a step back and reevaluate your value systems, and DO THE RIGHT THING! I am a firm believer in what goes around, comes around, and honestly believe that a relationship began in deception will come to a no good conclusion very quickly. Please, for the sake of yourself and your fiancee, THINK THIS OUT VERY CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU GO AND DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MESS UP YOUR AND YOUR FIANCEE'S LIFE FOR A LONG TIME!

Hello chinese_lover, I don't often reply to posts, although I love to spend a little part of each day catching up on what is happening on Candle (I'm another one of these addicted old-timers) and occasionally I feel the need to respond to a particular post (the pre-nup one being an example) and offer suggestions and help if at all possible. First of all, congratulations on meeting your Chinese fiancee. I heartily endorse what already has been posted regarding the Chinese woman, and the qualities that most of them possess. Of course, I happen to believe that I have the best of all of the Chinese wives, but then I'm sure a lot of us feel the same way. I wish you the best of luck and happiness in your future endeavours in bringing her to America. However, as probably someone who is a lot older than you (I'm almost 49 and I'm guessing you're in your 20's) I would like to offer you the following advice: Before you begin this incredible ordeal (and trust me, at times you will ask yourself why you are putting yourself through all of this trouble) of bringing your fiancee to America, please make sure that your own personal life is stable enough to endure and overcome the added difficulties which accompany the beginning of a new marriage, not only to a Chinese woman, but any woman as well. Please forgive me if I step on your toes and offend you, that is not my intention at all. I am merely trying to caution you before you make a mistake that will not only disrupt your life, but your fiancee's as well, and maybe cause you both considerable emotional pain in the future. From reading your posts, I sense that you are still young, and really do not have an idea of what you want out of life, much less how to accomplish it. Of course I understand and believe in the power of love, love at first sight, and I know of couples that have started out their lives together with nothing but love, and have succeeded in building a happy home. But actually, these couples are few and far in between, and the reality is that most marriages begun in this fashion fail within the first five years. Do you realize that finances are the number one cause of marital strife, and that more couples argue and bicker over money than anything else? And I know, that your response, and probably your fiancee's will be that it doesn't matter, because you love each other very much and things will work themselves out. But when the fireworks fizzle out, and believe me at times they will, then what will happen? Will you hold it against her if she comes to America and cannot get a job right away because of her limited knowledge of English, or because she cannot get a Social Security card right away, or cannot drive a car, or just cannot find someone who is willing to hire her? And because you invested a lot of money in the visa process, and will still have to invest a lot of money in the AOS process, will you feel bitter towards her? And will she feel bitter towards you when she realizes that you don't make enough money to support her, especially when undoubtedly her views of America have been severely distorted by the media? Does she understand that not everyone in America owns a home with two cars and a picket fence? Will she feel bitter towards you when you do not have enough money so that she can call her family in China? Or buy her a new pair of shoes? Or a wedding ring? Please, I am not trying to be cynical here, but what will her feelings be when she sees countless people with seemingly more money than you have? Will she be satisfied with that, or will she be bitter towards you? Maybe you live in a rural part of America, and $8.00 per hour is enough to support a family, but I live in California and $8.00 per hour is barely enough, if that, to support a single person living at home with his or her parents. I cannot imagine someone who is making $8.00 per hour, trying to bring a fiancee over from China and begin a life together. For that matter, I cannot imagine anyone beginning a marriage in America when only one person is making that much per hour. And you mentioned going to school, which I whole-heartedly agree with, so you can better yourself. But are you assuming that she will support you while you go to school? And if so, does she know this? And does she clearly understand the situation that you are in? Does she understand that you only make $8.00 per hour, and does she know how little that is in America? (Please remember that amount in China is big bucks, but over here, it is below poverty level). Please understand that I am not saying these things to hurt you, but to ensure that you realize the seriousness of bringing over your Chinese fiancee to America. Not only will you both have the culture and language differences to overcome, which are very difficult at times, but now you will have additional financial difficulties, and I fear that your marriage will have a very rocky road from the beginning. Sometimes when reading different posts on Candle, I fear that some of us American guys really give no thoughts at any great length to the obstacles that our Chinese fiancees face when coming to America. Sometimes, (and I will admit that I have occasionally been guilty of this) I think we fail to completely understand the enormous differences between life in China and life in America, and how that affects our Chinese wives and fiancees. Most of us American men are romantics at heart (especially us on Candle, and I think that is why most of us are enamoured with the Chinese women), and we think that all of our problems and differences can be solved by the love we have for each other. Unfortunately, that only works on television and at the movies, where the everyday struggles of life are rarely shown on those mediums because it is usually just too boring to watch for any great length of time. And a lot of American men relish the role of rescuer, or knight in shining armor, and we think that all we have to do is rescue our beautiful, lonely, imprisoned Chinese princesses from the clutches of the evil dragon, (no guys, I am not speaking of the mother-in-laws), and as soon as she comes to America, we will live happily ever after and our problems will disapper with the sun setting on the horizon. Unfortunately reality sets in when we come to realize that our princesses did not need to be rescued, or they are not quite the princesses we imagined them to be in our dreams. Or the princesses soon realize that the knight in shining armor who came to rescue them and who looked so dashing and exciting as they rode into town on the big white horse, is actually, once the armor is off and the horse is gone, the same man who leaves the toilet seat up and belches at the dinner table. All I am trying to say here is that both of you really need to think this through very carefully. I am not sure how long you have known each other, or how long you have been corresponding, but I beg of you to make sure you both realize and understand that this is a very serious step to take, and that neither of you take it too lightly. Without siding with anyone in this forum as to whose fault it was, and there are two sides to every story, lately I have been reading too many accounts of failed relationships or marriages. I want to caution both of you before you begin this sometimes incredibly difficult journey, that you each know in your hearts without a doubt that this love you have for each other was meant to be, and that nothing will come between it, no matter how difficult the circumstances become. And that you both understand the seriousness of the step you are about to take, and the lives (not only your own) that will be changed because of it. Chinese_lover, I caution you to completely understand the enormous responsibility of bringing over a fiancee from China (or any country for that matter), and to remember that you will be totally responsible for taking care of her for the next several years, even if it turns out, God forbid, that the relationship is not going to work. Prepare your life well, know in your heart that you can and are willing to take care of and be responsible for another human being, because after all, underneath that beautiful white veil that your princess wears, is a woman who will need someone to take care of and protect her (boy, I am really going to hear from the feminists about this one!). And to your fiancee I would like to caution that she makes sure that she knows exactly what she is getting into before she takes this step. America is not the country that she sees on television and movies, or reads about in the newspapers or on the Internet. Most of us have to work very hard for a living, and we struggle each and every day to make ends meet, and sometimes life is very difficult here. And under all of that shiny armor, your knight is just a man who is trying to survive and do the best that he can to make a life for the two of you. Chinese_lover, I am hoping and praying that God will bless you and your fiancee, and that everything works out the way it was planned. Please do not take this post the wrong way, I am only trying to be the voice of caution and experience here. Thanks for listening. P.S. I am sure I have opened up a large can of worms here, but I am actually looking forward to the responses.

I think this is precisely the case No, it is the direct result of Mick trying to catch up to Eric, and Eric trying to hold on to his lead!

We answered in the following: #24 Permanently #25 To marry my fiancee. Good luck!

Dave, We bought the tickets ahead of time as well, and my schedule was so tight, that we had to fly back the evening of the day after the interview. This caused some worry as we were not able to pick up the visa until 4:00 pm that day. But our flight was for 6:30 pm, so we made it just fine. Obviously this is a choice you both have to make, but I had the intention of demanding to speak to somebody inside the consulate if for some reason her visa was turned down, and using the tickets home as additional leverage if needed. After all that we had been through, if they would have not allowed her and her daughter to return home with me that day, they would have needed to throw me in a Chinese jail! P.S. It doesn't look like you are missing anything, but if you have room in your luggage for the kitchen sink, go ahead and bring that along as well! Good luck!

Hello all, When someone has a moment, can you show me how to use the quote boxes, so I can respond appropriately? Thanks! Now, on to the subject at hand. I honestly have to side with the ladies on this one, guys. A prenup is nothing but a piece of insurance. SF Joe, I understand that you are a lawyer and therefore believe that everything can be settled with a legal document, but we are not talking about an inanimate object here like a house or a car. We are talking about a sacred covenant between two people who wish to join together as one entity. Whether you like it or not, marriage is an institute created by God, and it is supposed to be a sacred, binding, life-long covenant between a man and a woman. But now of course, it is just like a lot of other things that we human beings have taken and reworked to fit into a lifestyle that is convenient for us. Obviously there are justifiable reasons for divorce, but nowadays people are getting divorced just because they cannot get along with one another or don't like something about one another. If you want to compare marriage to an inanimate object such as a house or a car, then think about what occurs when you buy a house or car. If you were to go out tomorrow and see a car that you really, really like, and decided to buy it, you would have to sign a myriad of forms and legally binding documents. After a couple of weeks, if you decided that you really didn't like the color, or that it just didn't suit your lifestyle, do you think you could just return to the dealer and give it back to them, and expect to get your money back? They would laugh you right out of the place! But we human beings believe that it is okay to do this with another person, does this make any sense at all? It used to be when you entered into a contract you were very careful to ensure that you knew exactly what you were getting into, because you were always aware of the phrase (please excuse me, but the Latin escapes me) "Let the buyer beware." But nowadays we have all just thrown personal responsibility out the window, and the first thing we do when we are unhappy, is hire a lawyer and start a lawsuit. Come to think of it, maybe that is why SF joe has the point of view that he does. (I apologize, I know that was a low blow!) So as soon as we don't get along with our wives, or we don't like who they are, no problem, hire a lawyer and sue them for divorce! Robert S, I read your post with interest, but I still have to disagree. I think the mistake your are making is found in the sentence in which you wrote, "She may have loved him just fine before but a large amount of money will change people's aspirations." Yes, having money or the lack of, does change a lot of people's aspirations, but it can never, and will never change true love. If a sum of money no matter how small or how large can change the love a wife has for her husband, or vice versus, than that love was not real to begin with. This is what the ladies who have responded to this thread are trying to get across to us guys. And enight has a point. What if your fiancee, before agreeing to marry you, presented you with her own prenuptial agreement? Maybe one that stated that if there would ever come a time that you did not meet up to her expectations in bed, that she could sue you for, let's say, lack of performance? (I know, it's a little crass, but I'm just trying to affect the guys in the same manner that I think a prenup affects the ladies). When a prenup is brought into the marriage equation, it automatically cultivates a sense of distrust and lack of commitment. Think of love as being like a four-legged chair, with one leg being love, one being respect, one being commitment, and one being trust. You could remove the leg of love, and although it might be a little wobbly, the chair could still be utilized. A marriage might be somewhat wobbly without love, but it still has a chance of succeeding, as long as the other three legs are in place. Remember, in the old days, partners were picked by the parents, and love was not a determining factor in the matter. And those marriages had a lot better average of success and longevity than those that occur today. If you were to remove the two legs of trust and commitment from that stool, it would make it very difficult to sit on, requiring at the least a very delicate balancing act. Unfortunately, this is exactly what a prenup does, removes the trust and commitment necessary for a sturdy foundation for a marriage, and from the very beginning, that marriage is at best a delicate balancing act. Robert S wrote that it is easy to take a black and white attitude about this subject. Maybe that is because it is really that simple. If you do not have enough trust and commitment in a person to feel comfortable about entering a sacred, lifelong covenant with him or her, with no strings attached, then by all means don't do so. It seems to me that it is as black and white and as simple as yes and no. And I would understand and support every woman who, when presented with a prenup, had the courage and foresight to say, "NO!"

Chinadave, If you haven't had your fill of advice, I want to add one more piece which I didn't mention before. Find someone who makes you laugh! It seems too simple, but often times in our lives we get caught up in the rat race of working, school, finances, etc, and we forget how to laugh and just have a good time with each other. I don't know if my wife and I are different than other couples, or maybe we both have yet to grow up, but we are constantly, day after day, making each other laugh. My original, naive image of a Chinese culture which never laughed, joked, or had a good time, was completely destroyed when I met my wife. From the very beginning of our communication, we always enjoyed kidding each other and trying to play jokes on one another. From early on when she first asked me for a photo of myself, and I downloaded a photo of a immensely overweight man sunbathing in a speedo, and told her that this was me enjoying the beach in California, and the day in Beijing when she had to use the restroom, and then exited through a different door and from a distance watched me as I paced back and forth waiting and waiting for her, until finally, in broken Chinese, I asked a woman who was about to enter, if she could check on her. I paid her back, though, the day I called her from my city, and told her about the encounter that I had with a spider in my back yard that was the size of a dinner plate. There was a quiet pause, and then the inevitable question, "Do they ever get inside the house?" And of course I answered, "Well, not very often, so you don't have to worry. And when they do, we just kill them with a broom." At that moment I could hear the wheels churning, reviewing her decision about coming to America. I cannot tell you everything that happens in our house because some of it is very embarassing, but needless to say, when I am taking a nice, long, hot shower, I am still very watchful for that glass of ice cold water coming over the top of the shower door. Oviously, there is never a dull moment around here. Anyway, the point of all of this is, life is too short to not enjoy it with someone that you can laugh with and have a good time. When times get rough, and a problem has knocked you on your butt, a good laugh together will make it all pale in comparison to the person you have by your side. There have been so many times that because of the culture differences and language barrier between my wife and I, that misunderstandings have occured, but we have always found some sort of humour in the situation, and soon are laughing like a couple of fools. Dave, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you are able to find someone you can laugh with for the rest of your life.

John, Thank you for your kind words. I just wanted to tell you to "keep up the faith!" I guess right now hearing those words does not help the feeling of helplessness and heartache you might have right now, but you just need to remember that everything has a purpose. You may not know what the purpose of all of this waiting is right now, but someday you will. All of us on this site who have their wives by their sides now, have gone through exactly what you and many others are going through right now. It is a rollercoaster of emotions. I remember that it seemed that everyday that I called my wife (fiancee at that time), one of us would be picking the other one up. One day, I would be down, ready to call it quits and move to China, and she would brighten my day. The next day, she would be down, thinking that we would never be together, and I would have to pick her up. But trust me, when you see her (if you are able to make the trip) coming out of that consulate with the visa in her hand, immediately all of the heartache and helplessness will be forgotten, and at that moment you will realize that all of it was well worth the wait! I remember when we both were in the taxi immediately afterwards (we had a flight to catch), both her and I were crying, and the driver and her daughter were looking at us like we were crazy. Trust me, we will remember that moment for as long as we both live. Hang in there, your time is coming soon!

Carl, Before my wife came over, I purposely introduced myself to quite a few Chinese immigrants in my city, because I wanted to find out what their feelings about America were. Like anything else, there was a wide variety of opinions, both good and bad. As far as I can ascertain, most of the immigrants from China have a very rosy picture of life in America, remember, most of them have only seen America via movies, television, or newspapers, and we all know how inaccurately those mediums portray America. I still remember one lady in Beijing asking me where I was from, and when I told her, "America", she responded with, "You are very lucky, America is a very powerful country." And my wife's dad is still upset with her for coming to America, and is concerned that she will be mugged or murdered one day. So, depending on which person you meet, you will likely get a different opinon from each of them. However, I will say there seems to be one opinion from the immigrants that they agree on, and that is that although there is not very much money to be made in China, life there is much simpler and less complicated than in America. Most of them believe that life in America is filled with too much pressure and complications. What I see in a lot of cases here, is immigrants who have come to America hoping to strike it rich, and after they do, making plans to return to their homeland and families to retire in comfort. And if you remember, that is how my state of California began, with thousands of people moving west hoping to strike it rich, so I have no problems with that scenario. My wife and I ourselves often discuss our future, and neither of us has thrown out the scenario of returning to China to live one day. The best you can do for now, Carl, is to ensure that in your communications with Bing that you paint as true of a picture of life in America as you can. Be up front with her, tell her both the good and the bad things about life over here. That way, when she does finally arrive, maybe the culture shock won't be quite so bad. And above everything else, love her to death!

Congratulations, Belle! We still remember what it was like to finally get that P4 packet! It feels great, right? Good luck at the interview!

Well, I guess I am going to fall under the category of "starry-eyed lover", and unfortunately I have been divorced and through it all once before, and I do live in California, but I am not a lawyer (though my half-brother is a judge. Does that count? ) I still believe that starting off a marriage with a prenup is like telling your wife to be, "Honey, you know I trust you with all of my mind, my heart, and my soul, but would it be a problem for you if I asked you to wear this chasity belt?" Or, "Honey, I know it was God who brought us together, and that our love is destined to last forever, but you know, even God is not perfect, and well, forever is not forever." I just tend to think that a marriage with a prenup is off to a very shaky and unstable beginning, and right off the bat it makes it clear that the level of trust between the couple is not at the level it should be for this type of life-changing commitment. But who am I to say, I still believe that Mary Poppins can fly!

Dear SBS, After reading your post regarding the websites recommended to chinadave, I wanted to take a look at them to see what you saw was a problem. Personally, I cannot see a problem with any of these websites, quite possibly because these are similar to the one in which I met my wife. I think it is quite presumptuous of you to assume that most of these women just want to meet someone to help them come to America. I'm certain that in some cases this may be true, but who can say for sure? Unless you know some of these women personally, and are aware of their circumstances, I think it is unfair for you to label them as such. Obviously, there are people all over the world who will deceive and hurt someone in order to better their lives, but to say that most of the women on these sites fit in that category is a serious error in judgment. If I remember correctly, two of the gentlemen on this site who had problems with fiancees who came to America did not meet them on a website such as these. In fact, I believe that one of them met them through a family member, and the other through work, though I could be mistaken. At any rate, I personally know of almost a dozen couples who have met through websites such as these, and as of today, all of them remain happily married. Just because a woman (or a man for that matter) wishes to meet someone via this type of site, it does not mean that most of them have ulterior motives. I'm sure that some do of course, but the majority of them are just looking for some happiness in their lives. And if what you say is true, what is so wrong with the fact that most of them just want to come to America? If a woman in China (or any country for that matter) is looking to better her life and situation, and feels that she can do so by meeting an American and coming to America, I wish her all the best! Maybe I am way off base here, but I don't see anything wrong with this. If a woman joins one of these sites, hoping for a chance to meet an American guy, and does so, and they fall in love with each other, and he invites her to America, and she fulfills a lifelong dream, and is given the chance for a better life, I for one would wish both her and her husband the very best! From the very beginnings of this great country of ours, thousands of immigrants have done this very thing, both legally and illegally, and are now living what we often call, "The American Dream." Of course I consider it wrong to intentionally deceive or hurt someone in order to better one's life or situation, but it is totally unfair to judge someone who's only sin is that he or she wishes to come to America. In my situation, I had to actually convince my wife to come to America, because at first she really had no desire to do so. But through a lot of sweet-talking I finally got her to agree, and now she is over here experiencing the true taste of freedom, and what it means to live in America. One thing I will never forget is when I was outside the consulate in Guangzhou, waiting for her as she was completing her interview, and I watched as person after person came out of the consulate, smiling, laughing, filled with excitement, as they held their recently acquired US visa. I saw more than one person overcome with tears of joy! On that day I knew what it meant to be an Amercan, and how priviledged I was, and I was very proud and thankful that our country is so accomodating to those whose dream is to come to America. I will never forget the feeling I had as I watched those future immigrants celebrate their good fortune with their families and friends. And since my wife has arrived, my eyes have been opened even more to just how great this country is, and how much we Americans take for granted. And although I am sure that there are a lot of countries with a lot of great attributes, there is no better place to live than the country which embraces freedom like America does. And if in the future, some of these women who are on these sites are fortunate enough to experience this great country of ours, I will welcome them with the same open arms that our forefathers welcomed countless immigrants before them. And if there is an American man who is fortunate enough to meet, fall in love with, and marry one of these women, then he, too will be blessed with a woman who will not take this great country for granted, unlike many American women (and men) do today. If the sole purpose of every one of these women on these websites is the opportunity to come to America, then I want to take this time to thank them for making me proud to be an American!

Dave, After reading the other Dave's (one of you needs to change your name ) post, I thought maybe my post was a little too lecture-sounding. I didn't mean it that way, it's just my Type A personality coming out. I just wanted to help!

Hello Dave, I don't get much of a chance to view all of the posts here, so I don't know your whole story, but I do remember you from before when I was still waiting for my fiancee/wife as well. I'm sorry to hear about your breakup. But with regards to your questions, I met my wife on www.oneandonly.com. There are literally hundreds of women from China at that site, and you can even specify which province you wish to meet women from, although when I met my wife, they had the wrong province for her. It didn't really matter to me, at that time I had no idea of one province from the other. One piece of advice, I would recommend writing back and forth daily for at least 6 months. My wife and I wrote almost every day from August thru February, before we even met. We did speak on the phone a few times during the latter part of that period, but because her English was not very good, and my Chinese was still not that great, we really did not discuss much of anything very important in nature. All of our conversations regarding everything about each other took place via the Internet. By the time I met her at the Beijing airport in early March, it was like seeing an old friend that I hadn't seen for quite some time. Everything seemed completely natural, and although both of us were nervous, of course, that quickly disappeared, and we have been like best friends ever since. Via the Internet, you have no choice but to learn about each other, and the additional dynamics that accompany dating in person, are not there to cloud your judgment. Of course the exchanging of photos are important as well, but more than anything else, write, write, write! Tell each other everything about yourselves; your strengths, your weaknesses, your likes and dislikes, your plans for the future, etc, etc. Above all, be honest with each other. Don't build yourself up to be something you are not, and don't overlook something that you don't like about the other person, thinking that you can change him or her after you get married. It will never happen, and will just cause heartache and bad feelings in the future. When I first met my wife on the Internet, one of the first things I told her about myself, was that I loved to cook but hated to do the dishes! We still laugh and have fun with this even today! But it was true, and it is still true today. I feel that I am a very good cook, but I am the type of cook that makes a hurricane out of the kitchen, and if I could just take the mess and throw it out in the trash, I would! What's this cleaning &%$* anyway? OK, I apologize for beginning to sound like Dr. Laura, but I just want to emphasize the importance of getting to know someone inside and out before you begin making any life-changing decisions. After 6 months or so, after you know this person inside and out, then go over and meet her, and unless she knowingly deceived you, nothing should change about the relationship. If you have become best friends via the Internet, nothing about meeting her in person should change that. For us, although I did return to China an additional 3 times to be with her, the first time was merely a necessary formality in order to meet the K-1 Visa requirements, since we had already decided to get married. Of course, it was also important for her parents and family to meet me as well. And obviously, that does not mean that we always agreed on everything, even today that doesn't always happen. I remember during that first meeting one of our biggest disagreements was her insisting on getting on an elevator that already looked to be way over the weight and capacity limit, and me telling her that I wanted to wait for the next one, and both of us looking at each other like we were crazy. And of course the people who were on the elevator all staring at us, because she was standing there, barely fitting inside the elevator, holding the doors open, waiting for me. But there was no way I was entering that elevator (and although that was one minor victory for us men, I sure heard about it up in the hotel room afterwards). But no matter what, we always both know that our love for each other is able to overcome whatever it might be that life throws at us, and that we will be together forever, even if I still hate to do the dishes, and she still puts the toilet paper on the roller backwards! Okay, that's enough Dr Laura for now. Good luck, Dave, and if you need any moral support, please PM me. I wish you the best!

Regarding your ability to set your computer to read Chinese, you are way ahead of me. How do you do that?

Hello all, Just an update. We made the journey down to SF yesterday to p/u the EAD. All went relatively smoothly, we were in and out in less than an hour. Note: Make sure that you bring your wife's passport as well as ID for yourself, as no one can enter the building without a photo ID. Several people were turned away because they did not have an ID on them. I would also recommend getting there early, because when we arrived at 11:00 am Monday, there was already a line of people waiting to get in. And because each and every person entering has to go through the security check (much like the airports), and there was only one employee manning the post, it was slow going getting in. Once you are in, no problem! Also, even though the notice we received stated to bring a copy of the AOS receipt form, as well as a copy of the AOS fee receipt (the grocery-type receipt), no one bothered to look at those. They only took the pick-up of the EAD notice from us, nothing else. Anyway, one more step up the mountain of BCIS completed...we are nearing the top! Next, the fingerprinting on the 14th.