IllinoisDave

Great news! You're moving right along now.

CONGRATULATIONS!

That guy needs to come out of his shell.

And I'm so sick and tired of the whining over people pointing out obvious factual discrepencies in China's OWN government documents. And NO ONE in the media is chastizing ANY children. Lay off the dramatics already. It's just not true. The only chastizing,if any, that's gone on is of the Chinese gymanstics federation and the Chinese government. It may not be any big deal for you to just dismiss one country not playing by the same rules as every other country. But for all the athletes who've spent countless hours training and missing out on normal childhoods so they could be Olympic caliber athletes, I'll bet it's a pretty big deal. Knowing that you did it the right way while others may have been rewarded for doing the opposite.

China has much to be proud about. Thank you for sharing the translation. Thanks Amanda. It's pretty cool to see what another country's national song says. It's really nice to hear that China is doing very well with the Olympics. I read a lot and don't watch any TV anymore but the once or twice the Olympics came up in our conversations I could hear the pride for China from my lil' rabbit. It's endearing to hear her pride and the pride of the Chinese people. I hope your visa journey is making speedy progress, and I hope you get a gold medal in the "Ten Month Race". tsap seui Thank you for your kind words! I also hope that I get a gold medal in the "Ten Month Race" as long as your American VO lets me. Amanda Perform well and don't worry about the score you get from the Russian judge, they don't understand the sport well. Some of the American judges aren't so hot either.

No doubt they'll post the results on the same website as the documents that showed the gymnasts are underage.

It seems there are just some of you that would prefer believing that the girls are underage. So you cite evidence directly from the mouth of a former Chinese gymnast who admits that this exact kind of cheating has happened before to somehow bolster your argument? I guess the unfortunate side-effect is that you've stumbled upon evidence that contradicts your whole argument without even realizing it?

Except, of course, when you find yourself at a loss for anything cogent to add and resort to calling someone a socialist.

When my wife calls me at work sometimes I answer with "wei" because I've heard her do it so many times. She usually gets a chuckle out of it. But I had no idea it was meant only for the phone. Thanks for the heads-up Amanda. Might have saved me a big dose of red-face in the future.

Best of luck to all of you. I'm sure you both have done all you can possibly do to prepare. They'll do fine.

Excellent post! If I were king and it was proven that cheating occured what I would do is let her keep the medals she won and move up the next three women to receive new gold,silver and bronze. Normally I would just say that since the medals were earned outside the rules of the given sport, the athlete should have them taken away as many have already had done,including in the recent past. But I think this situation is unique. While He and the other girls, if there are others, would have known that they were competing under false pretense since they obviously know their own true age, what choice did they really have in the system they're in? Would they be in the position that most athletes in other countries are in to be able to say to the Chinese Gymnastics Federation or whatever body controls the sport "Wait a minute, I'm not old enough and I'm not going to be a part of any kind of cheating"? I think they probably would have been under enormous pressure to just go along with the plan and keep their mouths shut,especially with the Games are on China's home turf. I don't know how you punish the officials involved,especially Chinese officials, without punishing the girls themselves. But if I were king, I'd find a way.

Nice to hear.

One of the beauties of this country is people get to express their opinion without having to monetarily compensate anyone for it. You may not like those opinions but we get to express them nonetheless. Many will hilite the positive aspects of China, of which there are too many to list. But some touch on the negatives aspects which,whether one chooses to believe it or not, actually exist. Whether I choose to spend my money on the poor in China, on the poor in Darfur, on bringing my wife here or on a night at Red Lobster is,frankly, my business. I don't feel obligated to pay for the opportunity to express my opinions just because someone doesn't like them. I'm very impressed that you were able to respond to Wendy's remark Dave... But I'm not at all sure that you have her meaning right... Perhaps she will return with a further clarification... Nevermind.. Maybe Dave is just upset because he fell asleep readin' the Star Bucks novel on which Wal-Mart to take the car to, to get the tire changed, and his cheese sammich fell out of his hand onto the floor Hmmm...Sammich seems like an odd Americanism for a nice Chinese girl like you to have picked up. Anyway. Not upset. Just tellin it like it is. Don't go to Starbucks or Wal-Mart. I change my own tires. Don't eat cheese sandwiches. Oh for five. Otherwise you're right on. Do you wish to clarify your meaning, as Rog suggests, or did I have it about right? I mean you did say it twice so did I get it wrong both times? I just say it... I didn't mean any serious. Don't be so serious I'll keep that in mind. But remember, if you call people out don't be too surprised if they answer.

What is this, your overused trump card again Roger? You're simply wrong on this one, as you are in other posts that represent the same support for a socialistic world. Jesse, your body may live in China but it's a fantasy world your mind inhabits. If you think your tiny tiny slice of life in China is at all representative of the whole country, you're delusional. You've had direct contact with what, maybe a few hundred people or even a thousand in your time there? Roger summed up your level of contact with the populace pretty well I think. Here's some numbers to put it in better perspective for you: 1.3 billion!! 3.7 million!! That's the number of people and the size in sq. miles. You haven't and never will come close to seeing or visiting anywhere close to all those people or that territory. Yet you come on here and make statements based on what you consider to be your VAST experience about how everything's so peachy and how everyone's so happy and how any mention of protests or suppression is so wrong because you're there and you know different. What a crock of s**t! I saw on the Olympic telecast that the sky was pretty blue in China for a few days. I wonder...what color is the sky in YOUR world?

Not the first time it's happened. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumen...m_b_118842.html

"But online records listing Chinese gymnasts and their ages that were posted on official Web sites in China, along with ages given in the official Chinese news media, seem to contradict the passport information, indicating that He and Jiang may be as young as 14." http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/27/sports/OLY.php Here's some visual evidence of some of the docs. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumen...m_b_118842.html

One leap forward. Two leaps back. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/o...protest.html?hp

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-08...ent_6951948.htm

SPOILER ALERT Do not open the second link if you don't want to know the sailing results. Although I seriously doubt NBC is going to be televising this one. From this: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/30/asia/china.php To this: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008...ent_6954543.htm

One of the beauties of this country is people get to express their opinion without having to monetarily compensate anyone for it. You may not like those opinions but we get to express them nonetheless. Many will hilite the positive aspects of China, of which there are too many to list. But some touch on the negatives aspects which,whether one chooses to believe it or not, actually exist. Whether I choose to spend my money on the poor in China, on the poor in Darfur, on bringing my wife here or on a night at Red Lobster is,frankly, my business. I don't feel obligated to pay for the opportunity to express my opinions just because someone doesn't like them. I'm very impressed that you were able to respond to Wendy's remark Dave... But I'm not at all sure that you have her meaning right... Perhaps she will return with a further clarification... Nevermind.. Maybe Dave is just upset because he fell asleep readin' the Star Bucks novel on which Wal-Mart to take the car to, to get the tire changed, and his cheese sammich fell out of his hand onto the floor Hmmm...Sammich seems like an odd Americanism for a nice Chinese girl like you to have picked up. Anyway. Not upset. Just tellin it like it is. Don't go to Starbucks or Wal-Mart. I change my own tires. Don't eat cheese sandwiches. Oh for five. Otherwise you're right on. Do you wish to clarify your meaning, as Rog suggests, or did I have it about right? I mean you did say it twice so did I get it wrong both times?

Ahhhh ... so that's how he injured his ankle! Oops...

That's a shame. Perhaps if they saw the video of him kicking the wall under the stadium in frustration when he realized he couldn't run they might not judge him so harshly.

You're not just a "little" wrong about this, but rather you're completely and utterly mistaken! The China Womens gymnastics team did nothing to deserve with being compared with the likes of illegal drug users like Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds. The young ladies from China have NOT cheated, nor did they disobey any rules. They complied with every request and regulation issued by the International Olympic Committee. The ladies of China simply out performed their competitors and did it without the use of artificial enhancements like illegal drugs. The girls themselves didn't cheat and are great athletes. The Chinese officials who train/control them apparently did cheat however. There's quite a bit of evidence to show they flouted the rules and falsified passports so some of the girls could compete. If they were under the allowable age limit as if appears some were, did that give them a competetive advantage over the others who were within the limits? I think that's a question best answered by those more expert on gymnastics than us. But the rules are obviously in place for some reason. And as long as they ARE there, EVERYONE should be expected to comply with them. To compare the Chinese gymnasts themselves to Bonds and McGwire and their ilk is illogical. But to dismiss the issue by saying that they complied with every request and regulation issued by the IOC is a bit misleading. Someone apparently didn't comply with every regulation. And while that someone may have been the adults in charge, I doubt the athletes themselves are unaware of the age limits or their own ages. Did the Chinese girls out-perform the other gymnasts head-to-head on a purely athletic and/or artistic level? Absolutely, at least in some cases. So why not just throw out the age limits and let them all compete against each other woman to woman? From a mere observer's perspective that would be my suggestion. But that brings us back to why the rules are in place to begin with. I don't think the Chinese women's gymnasts themselves will suffer the harsh judgement of history as McGgwire, Bonds etal have. But I do believe the Chinese gymnastics program and those who control it will suffer that fate. And if the allegations are true, they should. It certainly is unfair to compare Bonds and McGuire to the Chinese gymnasts. They just did their best and wanted to win. And if they were asked to give a fake age, it was not within their power to refuse the request of the Chinese government. However, the Chinese government probably took a lesson from major league baseball. In a way, Bonds and McGuire are getting a bad rap here. It's the system controlled by major league baseball and the all powerful players union that gave us a corrupt system that prohibited drug testing in major league baseball for so long. For each Bonds and Mcguire that is being scruitinized, there must be 100 or more juicers on the major league rosters. The players were forced to do it to stay competetive. Everyone else did it and didn't get caught, so most of the rest did it just so they could stay on the team. The Chinese probably learned a lesson from our own professional sports organizations and adjusted their ethics accordingly. You're absolutely right Mike. MLB and the player's union turned a blind eye for a long time. Especially during the home run race of '98 when he and Sosa brought baseball back from a very low point in it's history. And you're right about them not being alone. They're the poster children for the steroid era because they happened to break two of the most hallowed records in arguably the most statistic-centric sport in the world. But I do think that much of the bad rap they've gotten is much deserved due to their, shall we say, utter lack of candor about their use of those drugs.

One of the beauties of this country is people get to express their opinion without having to monetarily compensate anyone for it. You may not like those opinions but we get to express them nonetheless. Many will hilite the positive aspects of China, of which there are too many to list. But some touch on the negatives aspects which,whether one chooses to believe it or not, actually exist. Whether I choose to spend my money on the poor in China, on the poor in Darfur, on bringing my wife here or on a night at Red Lobster is,frankly, my business. I don't feel obligated to pay for the opportunity to express my opinions just because someone doesn't like them.