shyaushu

Good to see you here, too. Yes, we are fine, but this Removal of Conditions is yet another drag for us (as it is for all). How I wish we'd have stayed in China until we had been married for two years . . . besides saving $545, it would have simplified things a great deal. I really don't see a big problem for us in this, but the USCIS seems to pay attention to the wrong things a lot of the time. My previous wife clearly and obviously married me in bad faith: she threatened to kill me just a few months after arriving here; she abandoned me, and she told everyone (her Chinese "Hua Ren" friends) that she had only married me to get a green card and come to the US. Her Removal of Conditions? No problem! Meanwhile, Daoqun and I are as tight as you-know-what (I'll leave it to your immagination) and yet I wonder what road blocks they will throw at us. We have joint ownership of lots of stuff so we should have no problem.

Many thanks, WB. I know that is their concern (a "real" marriage) and that we have. But they are so paranoid about everything, and there is the concern they will see our living apart one or two days a week as something other than a regular thing, and thus, not a real marriage. Is your advice to not reveal our rented apartment? I know that would be the obvious way to avoid difficulties ~ just say we simply always live together on the farm ~ but that is not the case and aside from the potential penalties, I feel it would be wrong to not tell the truth. Anyway, there is nothing "wrong" with our living arrangements and we would surely just dispense with the apartment if we could make it work our. But my wife is determined to work here, and that is the only way we can make it work. Of course we'll get testimonials from friends and neighbors but for now I plan to tell them we both live together in two different locations because of my wife's work. Do you (or anyone else) see any problem with that?

My wife (here since 8/08) is up for her Removal of Conditions process. All is fine (even great) with us but I am leary that our living arrangements may cause problems. Dao doesn't drive and she works about 40 miles from our home in rural WV. I drove her back-and-forth for a few months ~ about 1,000 miles a week! ~ and we decided to rent a small apt. in town. I stay there with her about 2 days a week; we stay together on our farm about three days a week, and she is there alone 2 or 3 days a weeks (it varies). I know USCIS wants to see a clear, unambiguous relationship, with both folks living 100% of the time in the same place. But it's just not practical for us right now, and it is lonesome at times for both of us. What to do? Just skip the complication and say we live full time on the farm, commuting to Charleston for her work? Or explain it all to them and hope they don't get into their ultra paranoid thing. I know truthfulness is always best, and there ARE heavy fines for false material statements. But a part of me smells problems with them if we tell them we live apart some of the time. We would definitely not do it this way if we could avoid it. Dao and I are as solid as solid gets and her having to return to China would mean I would definitely leave this country too. Any advice?

Thanks for the info. It all seems pretty clear now. We obviously have plenty of time to get things together and we should have the $545 by then if we save a couple of dollars a day from now on. The "proof of a bona fide marriage" could mean a lot of things. I suppose presenting a joint bank account and utility bills in both of our names would suffice?

Hi, you all. Long time no write but starting our new lives here in the US has been time-consuming, to say the least. Getting hepatitis the second week I was here ~ a parting gift from the P.R. ? ~ definitely didn't help. Daoqun and I know we will have to complete an Adjustment of Status sometime, perhaps soon. We will have been married two years this May, 15, and the "two year" thing seems critical. But the stuff we got from Immigration when we arrived talked about two years after the Conditional Permanent Resident status was conferred. That would make June, 2010, or 90 days prior to that date the critical date. Which date is correct? Also, how do you go about doing that and how much does it cost? I heard a figure of $1,000 bantied about. If you have advice, direction or just a comment please write to my e-mail, OK? No Internet access at home . . . A Merry Christmas to all . . . Wally & Daoqun

This advice seems awfully good. Especially the part about you and your wife talking about what the potential issue(s) might be. There may be something you don't know about. I was in the same boat (a slow one to China?) until a few weeks ago when we were waiting for the result of our blue card after the interview. Fortunately for us they finally issued the visa ~ but not before some real agony ~ and we are headed back to the US on August 10. Right now my daughter is visiting from the US and we are on a tour of South China. She's having a ball and her (Chinese) sister is enjoying teaching her Chinese. Hang in there!

I have an official marriage certificate and it it outrageous for a VO to hold us hostage while they try to prove that it is not a couterfeit marriage certificate. If I am looking for a fiancee visa, the VO can have a subjective view point as to whether the relationsip is bonafide or not. Once you are married and have an official marriage certificate, the VO has no wiggling room for a subjective view point! Ken88 I can certainly understand your point-of-view, and I can understand the logic that says if you have an actual (certified) marriage certificate that should be both necessary & sufficient to prove a bona fide relationship. But logic is not the operative tool in visa roulette. If I were a dishonest, down-and-out guy who was contacted by a youngish Chinese woman who offered me say, $10,000 or $20,000 to marry her, get her a green card, and then divorce her ASAP, I might consider it, I suppose. We would actually get married (with a certified marriage certificate!) and apply for a visa. Then the green card and the divorce. This kind of stuff really does happen. In such a case the "real" marriage certificate is simply a contract that is intended to be broken at a future date. I personally know a young Chinese woman in the US with a student visa who asked me if I thought it was OK if she had a "sham marriage" (her words) to an American jerk so she could remain in the US after her schooling was finished. They would never actually live as a married couple and they would divorce as soon as possible after the green card arrived. I told her "No", and emphatically. I told her it was first and foremost illegal, and if she were caught she would be deported and ineligible for a proper visa, perhaps forever. But I also told her she was a young and not unattractive woman and she had her whole life ahead of her. What good would it do her to begin her life on a lie? What good could possibly come from getting to live in the US on deception? What about her self-respect? I advised her to try to meet a nice person here, if possible, and to marry him, if it seemed appropriate, out of love. A sham marriage scheme would never bring her happiness (which, ultimately, was what she was seeking, I assume). But there are people who don't feel that way and a "real" marriage certificate actually proves little more than that two people are legally married.

Yes, congratulations. Those "security guards" are worthless. They deal with pushing, shoving people everyday and they will say anything to get rid of someone. They once told me I couldn't go to the Citizen's Services Section even with my passport! I just ignored him and walked in.

Indeed, different US Consulate's here seem to have different requirements on this point. In Beijing (the US Embassy) we filed with only a "Z" visa and less than a day in China last August. No problem. It is reported to be different elsewhere. I guess Emerson was right: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." As far as "getting denied" is concerned, we were, initially, at least to the tune of a blue card. Eventually they granted the visa (about four days ago) but not until they had extracted their pound of flesh. But it had nothing to do with the DCF filing: we had an issue that needed to be addressed. That was my previous marriage and divorce, not very long before, to a different Chinese woman (and a resulting visa). Handwritten letters of "explanation", certified, and a photo of the two of us in front of a building in Luoyang was all they wanted. But that problem got ironed out, and I think the fact that my wife and I lived together in China for a year was a big help as far as the visa was cncerned. My guess is that we would have been simply denied had I filed the CR-1 from the US. "Here we go again", they would be saying at the water cooler in the G'zhou Consulate. It all turned out well, for sure. Not only did we get the visa, but we got to know each other really well, and we are certain (as certain as people who are married and living together for more than a year can be) that we are "right" for each other. We went through it all in the year here: change of jobs (twice), no money at times, minor squabbles, terrific fun, traveling and it was all just part of a regular, deep connection. THAT is actually the best part of a DCF in my mind. It removes a great deal of uncertainty. We discovered we are both people who sometimes make mistakes, say the wrong thing at times, but who love each other and can forgive and forget. That's what marriage is, right?

As you may know from my posts here, my wife and I were in a tizzy about our treatment by G'zhou, but at least they fronted with us and issued a blue card at the conclusion of the interview. Only then did their sadistic game-playing begin. They shafted you two right out of the starting gate with their bate-and-switch game. It's a shame and a half, really. If we meet on the Internet it seems like a scam to them. If we meet through friends, we are all in league to get Chinese women to the US. If we meet at a Karaoke bar or Starbucks our relationship is not bona fide. The next couple needs to say they met at a church social! Also, you are now working on a blue card ~ just like us. And we just got our visa two days ago. The total delay counting from the interview was just shy of four months . . . hardly a lifetime. Hang in there. The things they asked for, while mean spirited because they could have simply asked for them during the interview, sound like easy things to supply (and you apparently already have) and the type of stuff that often gets good turn-around time at G'zhou. You might get a call in letter in a week or two (yes, they don't give a hoot about your trip back to the US empty-handed).

All these blues makes me blue, too. Why? So many time lines seems pretty normal and straightforward: common ways of meeting; frequent visits; lots of time. I hope all of yours turn out as ours did (with a visa) but not with all the agony before the ecstasy. In answer to the KTV question: my wife knew what KTV was, but not the John Denver song. It couldn't be (but it should be) "Almost Heaven", so which one is it?

Many thanks, and the best of luck to you two in July. It wasn't really all THAT bad, now that it's over, at least. It seemed like an ordeal until yesterday. Now, we are simply moving on. There's no use in harboring a sour taste in our mouths forever.

Same here! Nothing like an easy interview.

Trap & your fiancee: you both know my wife and I know a fair amount about your situation and you both know we are with you all the way. But now it's on the Candle.

Indeed, the wait time for a decision when they issue a blue card varies. And it can (rarely) result in a denial. In our case, they wanted a hand-written and "certified" explanation of how I married and divorced my previous wife, how I met and married my present wife, and how and why I came to live with her in China. They also wanted a photo of the two of us in front of our apartment! We sent that all in about 2 weeks after the interview and we were "granted" a visa just shy of three months later. I put granted in quotes because it would be another month before they actually made good on their visa granting. The package never arrived at the post office around the corner, and then they wanted my wife to have electronic finger prints made. But they finally gave it to her. If you show your time line and, as others have suggested, give the reason(s) they wrote for the blue card, others may be able to predict a probable outcome more accurately. Good luck!

We add our congratulation to the others. What a relief finally getting a visa is.

And thanks for your well-wishing. I was thinking about what someone said about it: that we "fought the good fight (and won)" and felt a few comments on that vein were worthwhile and might be useful. What is "fighting the good fight" in terms of a visa? In my view it is at least two things: getting your ducks in a row (doing all the paperwork and other required stuff) and also remaining calm and composed in the face of the inevitable delays, obfuscations, chain-yanking, humiliations and such. The paperwork stuff is usually accomplished easily enough, especially with help from the many knowledgeable folks on the Candle. But it's that other part that causes all the problems. Learning to be calm and moderate when dealing with the Consol at GUZ is essential: they have all the power and they hold all the cards. It is pointless (and counter-productive) to mouth off to them or to be anything but rational and professional (oh!, if only they were, too). So angry letters or outbursts are out, except in really rare circumstances when the interviewer is really off base). So, learning to relax and take one day at a time is so important. Do all the venting you want, but do it on the Candle so you can get supporters to cheer you on and bolster your justified rage. That is a very important, but often not well-recognized function of the Candle. It's a sort of padded cell where we who have been driven crazy by the moron bureaucrats can rave and slam ourselves against the soft cyber walls. Every person just starting the process ("First Steps" people) should be aware of that: that they will inevitably be rebuffed, delayed and frustrated at some (if not all) of the stages of getting a visa for a loved one, and they need to learn that all that delay and frustration is part and parcel of dealing with the US government that is represented in Guangzhou. So, the lesson from today (and from every day) is fill in everything they ask for (no more), pay the fees, remain respectful and composed at all time, and let it all vent here on the Candle. And wait . . .

Thanks for your warm congrats. What happened with the blue card? Did they want additional stuff from you two? from your time line your situation seemed pretty cut-and-dried.

Thanks a lot, Randy, Rob & Jin and Charles. You all have definitely been with us all along. It helped a great deal.

Well, at long last, Daoqun went to the post office today (after we checked the tracking on EMS) and she actually received her visa! You know we are really relieved, and I am pretty certain some of you, at least, had more than just a passing interest in the outcome. We filed our DCF on August 29, 2007, had our interview on February 20, 2008 (with a blue card for a result), submitted the additional material they requested in early March, received a "Call in Letter" the third week of May, 2008, and were sent to the post office any number of times, always returning empty-handed, and were finally told to return to the Consulate for finger printing three days ago. Today it finally, actually, came. It's a colorful little thing! Whew! So, the visa took just about ten months, start-to-finish, which is not long by non-DCF filings, but definitely on the long side for the direct route. My previous marriage to a different Chinese woman was surely the hang up. But we persisted and were ultimately given the visa. So . . . hang in there. Dog them. They may still deny some who dog them, but not many. Our heartfelt thanks to all of you who directly and continuously gave us support (you know who you are!), and also to all of you who wished us the best from the peanut gallery. How lonely and lost we would have felt without the Candleforlove.

It's encouraging to hear (Rob and Jin) that we are not alone, and that many, if not all visas issued now are subject to pretty lengthy delays arriving at the Post Office. At least they haven't singled us out! As far as the picking the thing up at the Consulate is concerned, they simply don't do that, ridiculous as it may seem. Imagine going to the bank to withdraw $10,000 and the bank hands you a receipt and tells you to pick it up at the post office in a few days? So much could happen between the bank and the post office. And an immigration visa is worth at least that much: we all have that invested in application fees, air tickets, hotels, restaurants, medical evaluations, sightseeing, etc. As I previously conjectured, sending it to the Chinese post office seems like a cash cow for the Chinese government. A way to get a cut from all the Chinese citizens emigrating to the US. Twenty Yuan a pop. But it does cause headaches for everyone.

[/guote] David - re-read his post there - they're waiting for the visa to arrive at the post office. All because of this cruel new policy. Thanks to you all for your comments and encouragement. Yes, this is not a "3 month" letter, but waiting for Godot at the post office. What is this "new policy" Randy? I am not aware of it. We met a number of people in the same boat at the PO who had come from far off (Guangzhou is the only place for US visas, of course), and they are inconvenienced ~ and expensively, to say the least ~ by their wait. Extra days or even weeks spent in hotels and eating in restaurants; burned plane tickets (yes, one woman bought a ticket before hand, in spite of the admonition not to). To say nothing of the spouses who made the trip to China just to be with their loved one to pick up the visa and return home together. It's especially miserable for them. So the consensus is it will come; just keep waiting, right? That's good. We gotta head off the the Dragon Boat Festival . . .

I am really perplexed. I posted this in the after-the-interview section a few days ago and would really like to get some feedback. No one apparently read it there so I am putting it here since it is really still a "first step". We got the "Call in Letter" but still no visa. We filed our "DCF" I-130 application in late August; got to the starting gate in six months; were issued a blue card; the blue was followed by a "Call in Letter" three months later, and now, four trips to the post office after that letter, still no visa. "It not here yet" (mei you la dao), they always say. What are they doing? Is this normal? They said we could pick it up last Friday, and now it's this Thursday, in China. It's either incompetence (the dog ate your visa), sadism or a complete lack of consideration. We are people, and what's more, we are an American citizen and his wife. What kind of people tell someone to come and get something like that (we aren't talking a large pepperoni pizza here) and then say "not today; try again tomorrow?" I sense-concern-fear is that they are angling for an Administrative Review or some other manner of "reconsideration". It this normal? Do they often tell people to come and get the visa they have been issued but not give it to them? Did someone look at the two of us through the one-way mirror in the Consulate's secret post office viewing room and decide we should not be permitted to be in the US? Something about my camo dew rag . . . ? It would be great stuff for a novel if it wasn't so agonizing and so disappointing. Will they ever give it to us? I e-mailed them two days ago.

Our experience with these folks at the Consulate is firstly, if they give you a blue card it specifically states you must mail in the requested documents and that you cannot bring them to the Consulate. Secondly, you can submit them as quickly as you have them available, I believe (the quicker the better) but when the Visa Section actually takes action on the "overturn" (again, a blue card is a non-decision; not a denial) is entirely up to them. They may mail out a "Call-in-Letter" or call you right away, or they may wait a while, even a long while. It's all up to them.

I'm not sure this is relevant or not, but when my wife and I applied for her CR-1 ("DCF") visa , I knew my previous marriage to and divorce from a different Chinese national I had successfully sponsored, and our own subsequent fairly quick marriage (about three months later) would raise questions, if not eyebrows. So, I wrote a detailed letter explaining what happened with the first Chinese woman (death threats to me, abandonment of our marriage, a green card scam, etc.) and submitted it along with our other stuff. This did not deter the US Consul from issuing a blue card following the interview. In addition to a couple of extra photos (us in front of our apartment!) they asked for the same information I had previously written and included in the initial application. I was trying to also be "proactive", but they either never read it or didn't believe it, I suppose. Anyway, it apparently didn't help much. The first letter was computer printed and they specifically asked for a hand-written letter of explanation on the blue card, and also required that it be "certified" (easily done if you live next to a US Consulate or Embassy, complicated if you don't). So I would suggest a hand written letter, certified (maybe a notary can do that in the US). The bottom line, of course, is that we did get the visa three months after the blue card, and we are actually off to the post office right now to pick it up, along with the US entry packet. By-the-by, has anyone every pondered why the US Consulate sends the beneficiary's passport and visa to the post office? My take on it is a sweetheart deal between the Chinese and US governments, so that the Chinese "get a piece of the action" in granting Chinese nationals an immigration visa. It cost 20 Yuan to send it around the corner. I can easily see how they would think something "fishy" was going on, so I will send an attatchment explaining the situation with my initial application so the USCIS can ponder it here in the states instead of in GUZ....the less GUZ has to think about it the better