Cerberus

CQ, Same forum that is pinned in CFL "Communications" sub-forum. Here is the link for San Jose: http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-jose/. IMHO, I have previously been in this area, about 8 to 9 years ago, and even then the prices, on almost everything can be mind-boggling! Hope that you have a really good job lined up. i didn't like San Francisco proper (old Chinatown). However the area near Milpitas, CA (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=OWX&resnum=0&q=Milpitas,+CA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Milpitas,+CA&gl=us&ei=sJ8cS4uJCoiENJaHqeIC&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA ://http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&a...ed=0CAoQ8gEwAA ://http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&a...ed=0CAoQ8gEwAA ://http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&a...ed=0CAoQ8gEwAA ://http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&a...ed=0CAoQ8gEwAA ) has slew of Far Eastern and Middle-Eastern restaurants, and most especially; Chinese groceries, bookstores, malls, etc, etc. My ex-fiancee and I would drive down from Portland, OR to go shopping here. It was far better than Vancouver, Canada. Regard to apartments and your original question, are ranging from moderately expensive to very expensive. Remember that San Jose is at the top of Silicon Valley. They took a downturn, but they darn sure ain't totally broke yet! IMHO, take LA's cost of rent (for whatever apartment range) and stick another $150 to $250 dollars onto their LA's end price, and you will be pretty fairly in the ballpark for San Jose, unless you are willing to sacrifice your standard of living. When you do this the safety of a neighborhood goes down as well. Therefore, YMMV( your mileage may vary) depending on how much cash you have as income, what the both of you think is comfortable, etc, etc. Try this cost of living calculator, http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costoflivin...stofliving.html . I have used it before prior to moving to San Diego. Its calculations were only off about $100 either way, and that is for particular "creature comforts" my wife and I both have. Dave CQ, Thanks for asking. Finally recovered, but been busy lately in San Diego, preparing for two major inspections coming in January. A person always thinks that they are prepared until they begin looking around, and suddenly discovers how unprepared they really are. What Carl (Warpedbored) discovered didn¡¯t surprise me much, and was pretty much what I expected. What part of living in California isn¡¯t expensive anymore? With the exception of living in Barstow, and who in the world wants to live that deep in the desert? There is one company, I used when I first moved to San Diego, and that is Rent.com (http://www.rent.com). It¡¯s a fairly reputable Apartment/Condo/Home finder. Pick the zip code you want to search in, price range, and go from there. When I first used it, I did find a place to live and rented from a property that that Rent.com had listed. They have a promotional special that if you rent from one of the listed properties they would send you a one-time use $100 value debit card. I don¡¯t know if this is still going on. I agree with posts others and find that Craig¡¯s List and San Jose newspaper ads are a bit hit and miss, and with Craig¡¯s list there definitely are scams that do go on. I saw that you already made a posting in City-data forum. Sonnarat gave some fairly good information. Don¡¯t hesitate in using some of the links (ads) that are posted right below your posting. I saw one that I have never used and it is Rental Living.com http://rental-living.com/Search/Location/N...False?WT.srch=1 . It seems to be specifically centered in and around the San Jose area. Apartment locator services are also an option, albeit you usually have to pay in advance for such a service. The only real satisfaction you get is that someone else does the running around for you. The price is generally $50 to $75, to join. I¡¯ll continue to look around and see if anything else shows up. Dave

CQ, Same forum that is pinned in CFL "Communications" sub-forum. Here is the link for San Jose: http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-jose/. IMHO, I have previously been in this area, about 8 to 9 years ago, and even then the prices, on almost everything can be mind-boggling! Hope that you have a really good job lined up. i didn't like San Francisco proper (old Chinatown). However the area near Milpitas, CA (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=OWX&resnum=0&q=Milpitas,+CA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Milpitas,+CA&gl=us&ei=sJ8cS4uJCoiENJaHqeIC&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA ://http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&a...ed=0CAoQ8gEwAA ) has slew of Far Eastern and Middle-Eastern restaurants, and most especially; Chinese groceries, bookstores, malls, etc, etc. My ex-fiancee and I would drive down from Portland, OR to go shopping here. It was far better than Vancouver, Canada. Regard to apartments and your original question, are ranging from moderately expensive to very expensive. Remember that San Jose is at the top of Silicon Valley. They took a downturn, but they darn sure ain't totally broke yet! IMHO, take LA's cost of rent (for whatever apartment range) and stick another $150 to $250 dollars onto their LA's end price, and you will be pretty fairly in the ballpark for San Jose, unless you are willing to sacrifice your standard of living. When you do this the safety of a neighborhood goes down as well. Therefore, YMMV( your mileage may vary) depending on how much cash you have as income, what the both of you think is comfortable, etc, etc. Try this cost of living calculator, http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costoflivin...stofliving.html . I have used it before prior to moving to San Diego. Its calculations were only off about $100 either way, and that is for particular "creature comforts" my wife and I both have. Dave

H.S., I know of one of the sites PPLive.com, and as far as I ever knew, it never infringed of copyright laws. When my wife and I were first married, we occasionally stopped by, as it was free way back when. Now I believe that they charge a membership fee. Ergo, the onus of copyright infringement is on the PPLive, and not you/us. In addition, the darn site never did show very good movies that either of us liked, was not real-time streaming, and other bothersome problems. We never returned. The other site I don't know anything about. Today, my wife prefers live streaming news programs/channels, from the Sichuan province. Personally my advice would be to begin building a movie collection from Amazon.com, actual purchase of movies in China, a local "Chinatown" near you has plenty of stores that will sell Chinese language (some sub-titled), etc, etc. I sure that if you made inquies into local dealers in New York, Los Angeles, etc, you will find Chinese merchants that you could purchase from and have them sent to you. Your milage may vary, and I would definitely have a contract/guarantee that will stand up in a small claims court. Suffice to say, that there are unscrupulous merchants around. As an afterthought, did you look into Netflix? They might have some Chinese movies, but I really don't know since I have never had needed to research them. Dave EDITED: Whoops! Just read Bert Jie-Lin's post. MY bad! Obviously, he has been there and done this already. I will stand by my advice to begin building your own collection.

Todd, Easily! My own wife brings 1/2 bags to 1 pound bags of Chrysanthemum, Jasmine teas home every time she is China. They are pre-packaged. "Puer" (correct spelling; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_tea) is no different, than other teas. BTW, due to excess shipments/amounts of teas; may I suggest a very cold freezer. Most of the teas keep very well, with only a minimum loss of flavor. The chrysanthemum teas begin losing their flowers and/or further degradation, after about four to six months. My wife's favorite is the teas with sun-dried lemon slices included with the tea. I suppose it is a regional thing from the Sichuan Province. The sun-dried lemon slices are also sold by the bags, and later my wife incorporates the slices, with rose hips/petals, into Chinese teas in the US, which she personally mixes herself. Lemon slices are considered by many Chinese as essential for good health. Unfortunately, bringing citrus of any kind into the US, is importation of fruit; sun-dried or not! Most especially into California where I live. In California, it specifically has to do with the citrus industry, and Asian Citrus Psyllid. (http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8205.pdf). The citrus is HIGH on the hot list in California. I can't state the same facts for other regions of the US. Ergo, therefore fruit is any shape or form from China, or wherever (sun-dried or not) is high on the Customs list, and will garner unwanted attention. All imported teas are good to go! Just stray from the fruits within the teas, and you will be fine! Dave

What made me so sad about this incident, is that I was stationed at Fort Hood for 5 years, and lived in Harker Heights(suburb of Fort hood, same as Killeen and Copperas Cove). I have actually been deployed though the same center as the shooting occurred. When soldiers are being deployed the center is a madhouse. All US Army agencies (JAG for wills. Medical, shots, barbers, Supply to issue new equipment, etc, etc.) are there. You are either standing in one line or another, for the better part of a day. Suffice to say, and not making light of the situation, a person armed with a 5.56mm, in close quarters would be akin to "shooting fish in a barrel!" I'm happy to see that one security person was "on the ball" and flamed him four times. Thank you, 9mm Beretta! If it had been a .45-caliber Colt, he may not have made it! 9mm have no stopping power, and this idiot get to pay the price. Yes Virgina! There is a Santa Claus! From being in the US Army, stationed at this very same post, with a "clown" psychologist, that found Jihad or whatever, afraid to deploy or whatever...Well suffice to say that you wouldn't want me on your jury! BTW, she also was shot in the encounter http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...or-bravery.html. Which tells me that he had a lot more people he wanted to shoot! He hadn't even started yet! ROB, you were former SAS or SBS. How would have the soldiers in your country handled a soldier like this? Not flaming meant. I'm interested to see how Britain would have handled a clown like this! Last report is that the clown (and I won't even respect him as an Army officer), is still critical, but stable. The first thing he did was to call his lawyer! Now this is a defense I HAVE to see! This is better than even O.J. Any polls/wagers, on how long the jury pool will be out deliberating his fate? I suggest that his fate will be decided in 30 minutes, and the jury will sit out the court for another 2 hours, to make it look good, so that they aren't accused of "railroading" a man! The one question that I did have was the weapon that was used. I haven't seen anything definite. I personally suspect a M4 carbine, 30 round magazine, with one taped to the side. The bullets at the close of quarters would not normally tumble, but would pass through one humans body and hit others in the same altered path. Hence, the large number of wounded. Suffice to say, I believe that everyone knows where I stand. The sucking part is that in execution (if we are this lucky), is not a slow deserving death. It is extremely quick! Hi, Below is an excerpt from a CNN article about the weapons used: Two law enforcement sources told CNN that one of the weapons used is an FN 5.7-millimeter pistol, a semiautomatic purchased legally at Guns Galore, a Killeen gun shop. Details on the other gun, identified only as a type of revolver, were not immediately available. You can read the entire article here: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/texas....ings/index.html Here's a link to Wikipedia about the FN 5.7mm pistol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of the victims of this horrific attack. Best Wishes Thanks Arygle for the information, even as horrific as it is. Purchasing a weapon in Texas is about as easy as ordering a beer. Must be a new gun shop since I was there. I looked at the map, and I know the area, but not that particular shop. Sigh.....I suppose that it doesn't really matter anyway. Any of us could have purchased the same weapon, through Craig's List, private owner, or wherever. Jesus! 20 rounds to one magazine, and look at the bullets! These rounds (bullets, to CFL civilians, unfamiliar to firearms) are specifically designed to go thorough Kevlar vests and helmets. Now I understand why the rounds went so far, and hit so many people. The normal 5.56mm NATO ball round is designed to tumble after it hits flesh. These rounds are designed to penetrate body armor, and keep going! Ergo; the large number of injuries, who were in the way of the bullets passing though one person's body and striking them after it passed through one body and kept going to a second body! If this doesn't show premeditation before hand on this act; I don't know what will! The greatest satisfaction that I can see is a swift court martial, swiftly found guilty, and then sentenced. This is one time I will pray for the return of Pontius Pilate, to wash his hands of this clown, and have a nice long, slow crucifixion! May I ask permission to be the spear man, that gets to place the spear in his side? Unfortunately, he is a mass murderer and probably will get life in prison without the possibility of parole (courtesy of Fort Leavenworth and/or a super-max Federal facility), to ponder about his crimes, until he is very old and gray! I want to hear his lawyer's defense! I do hope that they choose a very dour judge! Justice should be served coldly. The judge has to keep control of his emotions, and tell the defense lawyer(s) to STFU up, sit down, and keep from laughing all at the same time! If on the off-chance he is given a death penalty, I would love to see how many protesters to the Death Penalty provisions show up, to answer for the doctor's crime. What? All 10 to 15 of them? How about if we have 200 to 300 US Army members wander around/mingle with them? Personally, I know when to speak out. I also when to keep my stupid yap shut! Since this a China/USA forum, let us look at Chinese justice. How fast would this man be convicted, sentenced to death? Crap! At least American's gave him a shot at presenting some ludicrous defensive stance justifying his actions, and he will be still found guilty! In China, they would have him scoop his own grave out, after trying him in a public court, swiftly finding him guilty (remember Chinese never like being embarrassed publicly and it looks even worse in the international news), and then quietly give him a 7.62 pistol lead injection. Otherwise, you get the rolling "death-mobile." Yes folks! Half of my family are government workers, and this item will keep your nose to the grindstone! It is like Domino's Pizza, without the 30-minute guarantee. This is a true mobile rolling, death machine! The prisons are so cold-blooded, they won't even have a death chamber to make your own final contrition. Check this out as a system of justice from China, and it is very damned real! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van. You gotta give credit to China! They are efficient and damned effective! What more do I need to explain about the crime rate in China vs US? However, in China he might get the proverbial 20-year, all PRC Govt, all-expense paid trip to Upper Mongolia, and they don't have a probation program. Guess, what the end is going to be? Gentlemen! Haven't you noticed that there is no smell of marijuana smoke in most areas of China? This crime alone, is almost a sure-fire trip for reeducation of 3 years plus, if they are caught! Hell! China is nailing people for graft and they are putting them to the needle for taking bribes! Where is Barry Madroff in the US? It is a bit off-topic, however, I will indulge myself. I have been a member of CFL for going on five years. I read almost all posts. Some of the American members have their problems, that come up in the GUZ interview. The entire time I have been here: , I have never! and I mean ever! seen a Chinese woman(s) and/or man(s) criminal history brought up. Most especially when they are subjugated to re-education programs, courtesy of the PRC. Yes! There are scammers! I'm not naive. However, can one CFL member cite me a specific post, that a Chinese man/woman was denied for criminal activity?

Don, Fully agree with you. Bye-bye John Allen Muhammad! Who truly cares anyway? Even the anti-death demonstrators weren't out in force. A token few, contrary to what they generally demonstrate about other questionable Death Row cases. I suppose J. Muhammad wasn't the poster child they wanted. Pretty hard to demonstrate for a person's death, which: 1 ) That operated as a sniper from a car, through a access hole, which he cut in the trunk! 2 ) Coerced/manipulated a man/child into doing the same type of killings. 3 ) Neither clown had an agenda, no political jihad, etc, etc, for doing the killings. E.G. being shot at the gas pump while filling your car's tank with gas! This is a despicable crime of the worst sort. It seems strange that we have prisoners sitting on Death Row, for crimes that they committed, and righteously deserve their fate (and that is my opinion only, and no insult to CFL members that feel otherwise in regard to the Death Penalty issue). Other inmates on Death Row, have appeals stretching into 10 to 20 years. Doesn't it seem strange that J. Muhammad's execution was carried out extremely quickly? What was it? 6 or 7 years plus and/or minus? I'm also thinking about the Kansas abortion doctor that was gunned down in a church (BTW, one shot through the head, confirmed), while he served as an usher, from this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...hpid=sec-nation. I read today, that he was pleading guilty, and his defense is that he was protecting unborn children. I wonder how far the public, liberals will go to protest this man's death, if he even receives a death sentence? IMHO, there are some crimes, that you can protest to death. However, there is a fine line too, of crimes that are absolutely despicable, and Death Penalty protesters, silently stand by, and acknowledge as being the right thing to do, due to the certain and sinister nature of a particular crime. BTW, before I'm flamed as being some conservative lackey; I do believe in the death penalty (drug dealers are the first in line, same as in China, Korea, and Indonesia) in some cases, and not in others. I personally don't believe in abortion, however, IMHO, this a woman's right to decide. I don't believe that a smart couple should reach this stage, in the first place! Myself, I was a former soldier, and I have killed before. However, executing a man in a church whether he was a priest, an altar boy, deacon, usher, or whatever, falls out of even our realm. You mean to tell me that a killer can't wait for him to go to a Denny's or an IHOP before you kill him, and not in front of his family? Perhaps, there are some crimes that even liberals and conservatives, agree upon. I didn't want to make this into a political post, contrary to CFL guidelines. I was just wondering out loud! Don, Dan, Carl, please don't hesitate in shutting this thread down if it gets political, of any fashion, shape or form. I will understand fully! Following CFL posters, that desire to make their opinions known: "Forewarned; is forearmed! Dave

What made me so sad about this incident, is that I was stationed at Fort Hood for 5 years, and lived in Harker Heights(suburb of Fort hood, same as Killeen and Copperas Cove). I have actually been deployed though the same center as the shooting occurred. When soldiers are being deployed the center is a madhouse. All US Army agencies (JAG for wills. Medical, shots, barbers, Supply to issue new equipment, etc, etc.) are there. You are either standing in one line or another, for the better part of a day. Suffice to say, and not making light of the situation, a person armed with a 5.56mm, in close quarters would be akin to "shooting fish in a barrel!" I'm happy to see that one security person was "on the ball" and flamed him four times. Thank you, 9mm Beretta! If it had been a .45-caliber Colt, he may not have made it! 9mm have no stopping power, and this idiot get to pay the price. Yes Virgina! There is a Santa Claus! From being in the US Army, stationed at this very same post, with a "clown" psychologist, that found Jihad or whatever, afraid to deploy or whatever...Well suffice to say that you wouldn't want me on your jury! BTW, she also was shot in the encounter http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...or-bravery.html. Which tells me that he had a lot more people he wanted to shoot! He hadn't even started yet! ROB, you were former SAS or SBS. How would have the soldiers in your country handled a soldier like this? Not flaming meant. I'm interested to see how Britain would have handled a clown like this! Last report is that the clown (and I won't even respect him as an Army officer), is still critical, but stable. The first thing he did was to call his lawyer! Now this is a defense I HAVE to see! This is better than even O.J. Any polls/wagers, on how long the jury pool will be out deliberating his fate? I suggest that his fate will be decided in 30 minutes, and the jury will sit out the court for another 2 hours, to make it look good, so that they aren't accused of "railroading" a man! The one question that I did have was the weapon that was used. I haven't seen anything definite. I personally suspect a M4 carbine, 30 round magazine, with one taped to the side. The bullets at the close of quarters would not normally tumble, but would pass through one humans body and hit others in the same altered path. Hence, the large number of wounded. Suffice to say, I believe that everyone knows where I stand. The sucking part is that in execution (if we are this lucky), is not a slow deserving death. It is extremely quick!

The wife says THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THIS ANYWHERE IN CHINA THAT SHE KNOWS OF!!! She is insisting that we try to take it. I have no choice but to try. It is not regular flour - it is the kind that is seasoned especially for fry cooking poultry. m-coon MC I started a post; however, it came out too derogatory. I mean seriously; are you yanking other people chains just to get a rise from them? Numerous other threads address the same issues regard to weight allowances on airlines. Now you "kow-tow" to a woman that wants to send 40 pounds of "unobtainable" flour to China, that has to come through US and Chinese Customs agents all along the way, explaining to every one of them, possibly explaining to whatever "Inspector Clouseau " the reasons behind this shipment of 40 pounds of unobtainable American FLOUR! Pardon me for asking. Doesn't your reasoning seem to be somewhat like something of a scene out of a Peter Sellers/Blake Edwards movie theme, from the Pink Panther, or a Monty Python skit, with police/customs interspersed all along the way? BTW, you stand innocently by the side, agreeing with her, and then post this silliness past this forum, expecting a straight answer! Seriously! My wife recently left for China, expecting to stay for 5 months and ~ 15 days. We bought gifts for everyone as usual. The largest problem was the American shoes her niece wanted. To save weight, my wife wore the shoes, with three extra socks so she could walk in the shoes, so that my wife could walk through the airport (with her niece's shoes, that she wanted, and I purchased), five sizes too big and resembled a clown with oversize shoes. My wife simply wanted to save money and weight, As a self-tribute to myself, I agreed with her decision, and kept a straight face the entire time in the LAX terminal and didn't laugh once! Howeverr, it was hard to keep a straight face. Numerous other posters talk about chocolate, vitamins, pens, ginseng, books etc, etc. In approximately five years that I have been here, your wife and you are the first to have crossed the boundary of flour. I mean ever! Now! Your new wife, wants to ship 40 pounds of unobtainable flour to China? Have you taken leave of your senses! Now you have come to this forum, asking about your new wife, and her wishes concerning flour? One poster stated that you can get flour easily, and BTW, I have also done so, and made "Maryland Chicken" in Chengdu. I have visited China many times, and had no problems obtaining her and/or my "unobtainable" flour! Seriously......; a ) I hope that is a joke. If it was you, that sucked me into this parody, then laugh is on me! b ) If it wasn't a joke, then there are some serious issues that are about to bite you in the ass in the future. Every dog has its day, and it's own individual bite. Unfortunately, I suspect that it wasn't # a above, and if you are dead serious. May I suggest that you never repeat this story to the ex-pats in China that you might meet, and your wife from refraining from telling Chinese women this story. All of them including teachers, would think that you are loony, and laugh in your face. I know my own wife wouldn't laugh in her face, but feel sorry for her. You do what what you want. The US is a free country, and so is your family. I wish you well. Do what comes natural Dave http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/41/68041-004-3B974BE1.jpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4EvNyMPbxw. Minute 3.27 is very poignant to what I said above. What is your job? I'm the gardener, and the Clouseu continues to argue with him, regard to his job. Kind of sounds like the flour question you asked previously, Scott! You want to argue, against common sense of many in CFL to solve a murder, and end up putting a blemish, on a priceless Steinway. BTW, Scott; Many others I have known, are the same way. Trying to pound a square peg ino a round hole, with a BFH ( Big F _ _king Hammer). The result? A mangled peg, That never fits properly!

JJ! Wow! Talk about front loading an application! I see you are loaded to hunt and shoot every damn bear, that are unfortunate enough to be in the forest! IMHO, during AOS process and just to cut your load down a bit, I would suggest: 1. The officers for us didn't care about wedding pictures and/or receipts. You might want to have a couple thrown in. IMHO, wedding pictures don;t really impress the USCIS officers very much. Anyone can have wedding photos taken anywhere and at anytime. However, candid casual photos in front of restaurants, something showing how recent they are, is a good idea. 2. The marriage certificate if isn't in you folder is a good idea, is definitely a must have. My wife for her AOS, after she came to the US using a K3 visa. Ergo, most of the items were already in her original packet. 3. For the Utility, Cable TV, telephone bills, etc statements, the officer will want to see the most recent three months worth. After this you are really dragging in a huge amount of information. 4. For E-mails, this can go either way that you are comfortable. I would suggest selecting 4 over the most recent span until your marriage. Of course, throw in the "special" ones such birthdays, holidays, discussions of wedding plans. The PMs from his parents I would definitely throw into this mix, but separate from the both of your PMs. This ought to streamline the evidence you are providing. One man I advised off-net had 6 months of daily PMs he wanted to take to GUZ, for his fianc¨¦e¡¯s interview. He took my advice, same as I just gave you, and they passed with flying colors. 5. Medical bills and Social Security statements are a very good idea. Wish that I thought to bring them. Therefore I'm a bit jealous that you came up with it first! 6. Regard to on-line receipts, IMHO I don't think that USCIS cares that much about your shopping. If you haven't impressed them enough with the items 1 through 5; then you are in real trouble anyway. Regard to the interview it is a very straightforward process. As an example Yin and I went down for a followup on submitted information. The USCIS ( A Filipino woman named of Reyes) went over my wife's paperwork and what we submitted. We expected to be scheduled for another appointment, at a later date. The officer directed us to a separate area and told us to wait. The Interviewing officers suddenly appeared and called us in. The interview was done on the spot and that quickly! The interview went very well, with my wife providing answers to the officers. The officer swore her to her answers and we departed. The interview was done so quickly and easily, my wife got to the parking lot and asked when would her interview would be. I told her that she was done and there were no more interviews. She then inquired that there were no more interviews? Whats next honey? I told her she would be receiving her 10 year Green Card in the mail, in about 4 to 6 weeks. It is hard to express what a shocked Chinese woman looks like! I got to see it this day. Her eyes bugged out of her head, her mouth was completely agape, that she had just done the interview. After she picked up her jaw from the parking lot, she began squealing and stamping her feet! That is why I suggested just be yourselves, have the paperwork in order (which you already have done) and enjoy the interview. It truly is painless! Dave All great points Dave, I'm collecting as I go and depending when my interview ends up being, I can whittle back. I agree about the wedding pictures, so I've only included those that have other people in them, family and friends. Might have an issue with the dates on the photos though, there are no dates printed from my digital files, but there is clear change in seasons and backgrounds. For our first anniversary, I put together our photos from our trips and we took a bunch that were in front of famous places (happy coincidence). I think the interview should be fine, since we have nothing to hide and we intend to dress and act professionally. I love your story! I wouldn't mind reenacting Yin's shocked expression, heehee.... Is the better-half bringing a recording camera? BTW, the sex part after a successful interview is phenomenal! I was assaulted! JJ, regard to the photos; just go with the flow! You have seen your friends photographs, understood transitions of time when you looked at them, USCIS officers didn't/aren't lived/living in walnut shells under a tree, serviced my Keebler elves making cookies. They can very quickly smell out a false set of photos in a heartbeat. That is when the questions begin, and if they are false, that is when they will nail you onto the proverbial cross, and you get red flagged. the place that they are today. USCIS officers will see the subtle changes, the same and I do when we look at a friends photos and ask questions about them. They may ask a couple of questions, but that is about it!

JJ, Your probably a sucker for punishment, same as I. On a more serious note, IMHO, the processing time depends on the office that is handling the processing. My wife and I did the biometrics/AOS processing for her in Oklahoma City, OK, under the now terminated "Fast-Trac" program. If my memory serves me correctly; at the point of the biometrics being taken to AOS interview it was about 4 or 5 weeks. However, please remember this was the previously mentioned terminated program. After the interview she received her 10-year Green Card, approx. 6 weeks later. I saw California listed under your profile as location. What office took your biometrics? This will help other CFL members in giving you a very realistic answer, since I'm sure many are going through the same process, in the same identical office you are right now. You might want to check timelines in the CFL links. If this still doesn't give you an answer, I know Visa Journey has a time line sub-forum http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...&page=times. Just find someone recent that is undergoing the same process, in the same office you are, and you can SWAG ("Scientific Wild-Assed Guess") your processing times fairly easily. I believe that CSC, USCIS (California Service Center), is moving pretty quickly for this process. Someone made a post about this 6 to 9 months ago, but I can't remember who. To add another piece of info, a man I know from CFL, is processing a 130 (K3 Visa) and he is in Alabama. 130 was sent to the Vermont service center, and later was transferred to CSC in California. So obviously, Vermont is becoming bogged down, ergo the transfer. If it is California, I suggest that you set up a folder for you and the better-half, and begin getting your documents ready? Utilities or Cable accounts, mortgage agreements, joint bank account statements, even joint gym fees which I was the sponsor for my wife, and anything else that shows both names. I might add that I only brought 3 months for one of the items I mentioned previously. This was unsatisfactory for Yin's interview. They want at least two or three different entities. The interview is a breeze, unless you are a total idiot. So don't sweat the interview or begin trying to cram like a college test final. Just go in, and the both of you be yourselves. The love that you both have will come out and show in the interview. Dave Thanks Dave, that was really helpful and good advice. I had my biometrics taken at one of the Los Angeles Support Centers (it was not well marked and it's not the local USCIS office as far as I know). We're not using a K-type visa. I've already started the documentation collection process, stuff I've got so far (besides the ID info) are: * Wedding receipts & pictures * Marriage certificate * Joint bank statements * Utility statements * Engagement and wedding rings (insurance & receipts) * Joint car insurance * DMV receipt showing my change of address + registration letter * Joint health insurance * Beneficiary information for life insurance + 401K * Engagement and wedding cards from >20 people * Tax info for last three years + pay slips * Phone bills showing our communications, the same address and the fact I switched phone companies * Emails from his parents to me about our engagement & wedding * Miscellaneous letters e.g. Social Security, dental bills addressed to me at our address * Pictures from our international trips for vacation and to meet my family and friends * Receipts for things I've bought online and shipped to our address Basically, I'm throwing everything but the kitchen sink in and see what sticks. I see the processing time for California is at 5 months, it could be much worse. JJ JJ! Wow! Talk about front loading an application! I see you are loaded to hunt and shoot every damn bear, that are unfortunate enough to be in the forest! IMHO, during AOS process and just to cut your load down a bit, I would suggest: 1. The officers for us didn't care about wedding pictures and/or receipts. You might want to have a couple thrown in. IMHO, wedding pictures don;t really impress the USCIS officers very much. Anyone can have wedding photos taken anywhere and at anytime. However, candid casual photos in front of restaurants, something showing how recent they are, is a good idea. 2. The marriage certificate if isn't in you folder is a good idea, is definitely a must have. My wife for her AOS, after she came to the US using a K3 visa. Ergo, most of the items were already in her original packet. 3. For the Utility, Cable TV, telephone bills, etc statements, the officer will want to see the most recent three months worth. After this you are really dragging in a huge amount of information. 4. For E-mails, this can go either way that you are comfortable. I would suggest selecting 4 over the most recent span until your marriage. Of course, throw in the "special" ones such birthdays, holidays, discussions of wedding plans. The PMs from his parents I would definitely throw into this mix, but separate from the both of your PMs. This ought to streamline the evidence you are providing. One man I advised off-net had 6 months of daily PMs he wanted to take to GUZ, for his fianc¨¦e¡¯s interview. He took my advice, same as I just gave you, and they passed with flying colors. 5. Medical bills and Social Security statements are a very good idea. Wish that I thought to bring them. Therefore I'm a bit jealous that you came up with it first! 6. Regard to on-line receipts, IMHO I don't think that USCIS cares that much about your shopping. If you haven't impressed them enough with the items 1 through 5; then you are in real trouble anyway. Regard to the interview it is a very straightforward process. As an example Yin and I went down for a followup on submitted information. The USCIS ( A Filipino woman named of Reyes) went over my wife's paperwork and what we submitted. We expected to be scheduled for another appointment, at a later date. The officer directed us to a separate area and told us to wait. The Interviewing officers suddenly appeared and called us in. The interview was done on the spot and that quickly! The interview went very well, with my wife providing answers to the officers. The officer swore her to her answers and we departed. The interview was done so quickly and easily, my wife got to the parking lot and asked when would her interview would be. I told her that she was done and there were no more interviews. She then inquired that there were no more interviews? Whats next honey? I told her she would be receiving her 10 year Green Card in the mail, in about 4 to 6 weeks. It is hard to express what a shocked Chinese woman looks like! I got to see it this day. Her eyes bugged out of her head, her mouth was completely agape, that she had just done the interview. After she picked up her jaw from the parking lot, she began squealing and stamping her feet! That is why I suggested just be yourselves, have the paperwork in order (which you already have done) and enjoy the interview. It truly is painless! Dave

Jin, What?!! We can¡¯t brine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brining) Donahso? I had such great market ideas for this final product! Pickled Don! "It's better that pork meat!" can be on the label. Jin, you can have a photo on the back, enjoying "brined Don." Sorry Jin and Don. I was just having a bit of fun, with Jin¡¯s inadvertent misspelling. Are we allowed to ¡°brine¡± the suspected ¡°trolls¡± in CFL? I better stop, and get out of this train of thought, while the getting is still good. To be on a serious note, sadly Jin I don¡¯t think it will happen. To back my case up, I will cite two separate incidents I know of, with follow-up commentary. Scenario 1: In 2006, China in the past had purchased the patent rights to manufacture the old renowned MGB from Britain. The Chinese decided they need a cheap labor force, ability to build a plant, and have some financial concessions (tax breaks and the ilk) from where they desired to build the plant, and most of all they wanted to make a profit. The site chosen was Ardmore, OK. Obviously, not the center of the universe and most readers are wondering where the F..k is Ardmore, OK? Unemployment rates were high, US citizens would have given their proverbial right arm to work here, for Chinese, US, British, even the North Koreans if they had a job. State of Oklahoma gave the Chinese tax concessions (the amounts of 20 million a year) since the residents were in dire straits just to have a job and the Chinese were wiling to provide. The deal was eventually closed down, due to residents (US) complaining regard to Chinese having the runway at the local airport expanded for shipments of Chinese inbound raw materials, that went to the factory (Chinese built) that provided the jobs. There was concerns regard to the environmental impact of the native fauna in this particular region of Oklahoma. Are they kidding me? Talk to many other Oklahoma residents and I. I moved from the area north of it (Bethany, OK), and there isn¡¯t much to disturb but cows and low lying Pin Oak, red soil, and a whole lot of workers seeking jobs again. The Chinese then decided it simply wasn¡¯t worth the hassle, of Environmental Impact statements, fighting with residents so they could hire them in a place that has no jobs in the first place. They (Chinese) basically, pulled up the tent stakes, folded up the tent, packed the camels and left the residents of Ardmore, OK to their own devices. IMHO, a very pragmatic decision, by the Chinese. BTW! Remember the present day crisis in the US and the respective dealerships, loss of jobs both in sales and manufacturing with the HUMMER? I noticed that China stepped up to the plate, vowed to keep the operations in the US and wanted to buy the segment of this corporation. Obviously, to make a buck or two! Nothing wrong with this, IMHO! However, active and retired US Navy Personnel (where I work in San Diego) are screaming that this is a Chinese conspiracy to take over the US! Question: China is going to take over the US, with a vehicle started in the US and that no sane country would want in the first place, due to its gas consumption, due to road size, that they (Chinese) have vowed to keep most manufacturing processes in the US, hire and/or retain the same (Western) people, keep their wages relatively the same, are in a conspiracy and are planning on taking over America? Somehow, I'm trying to visualize a Hummer going down a road in the city of Chengdu! And of course, I can visualize as well, as you and/or many readers, numerous Chinese people filling up the gas tanks of this behemoth, with their fantastically rich Chinese wages. Not to mention parking this same vehicle on a Chinese street or a garage for your personally owned condo/home, while still paying import tax and insurance! Does this smack of blatant prejudice, or am I the only one in the room? I satirically noticed that not one other country...bid on this soon to be be defunct segment and gave the concessions that the Chinese did. Conclusions: You can lead a horse to water. However! You can¡¯t make it drink unless you suck it through the horse¡¯s anus! The Chinese have enough pride to realize that they ain¡¯t sucking anything. They provided jobs and idiots (guess who) screwed it up! What is the old adage that you pick your battles carefully? IMHO, the citizenry of Ardmore choose poorly. Now they pay the price? Jin who was right and who was wrong? IMHO, the Chinese simply wanted to make a buck! The residents should have followed it up and asked for concessions from the Chinese, who probably would have listened. Political clowns got in the way and that is all. IMHO, the Western mentality took over and the Chinese walked away from the table. IMHO, I would have done the same thing. How can you or I intermix, two diametrically opposed trains of thought? The readers can draw their own conclusions. Who is wrong? Who is right? What could have prevented this eventual end in the first place? Please understand, that I stand by both sides of the issue. Sometimes, the Chinese are right. And sometimes they are wrong. The same goes for Western countries. The workers still suffer the same fate. That is the sad part. Scenario 2: All my wife wants is a job! Se desires to work for a caring corporation like commonly found in China. Today¡¯s Western corporations have become very electronic and streamlined, to save time and money. You fill you applications out; send them electronically to whatever corporation, and then, hopefully, you are called in for an interview and/or subsequent interviews. How nice and tidy on the Western side of thinking. This means that they are quickly sorted through by HR personnel, and they never have to face you, interview you, tell you to your face: ¡°You¡¯re not what we were looking for.¡± Ergo, my wife¡¯s statement: ¡°I wish that that they would tell me, fuck you, we don¡¯t hire Chinks!¡± They are so cold-blooded in the West, so afraid of a little Chinese woman that they won¡¯t even face me and tell this to my face.¡± The final insult to me was when my wife stated: ¡°I feel sorry for Westerner¡¯s! They have no culture and are so afraid that they might offend someone the have t o go to a computer to tell me to F..K off! Chinese people are different! We will talk to you and tell you are not hired¡± My wife did 173 applications and not counting personal networking. California is not a job rich environment. My wife and I decided that the best thing was to return to China for a job. The process is still on going and I will not break any laws. However, I digress. She did two telephone interviews to China and was hired on the spot on the second interview, with a high-tech firm in China, which pays far higher than any job she can get in California. IMO, that is what really pisses me off. Not one damned document was faxed to establish her credibility, past employment history, no job application. I mean nothing! Two telephone conversations and she was hired. Try this with any Western corporation. She was taken at her word only. I don¡¯t know of one other Westerner that would do this! ! BTW, right now I¡¯m a geographical bachelor. We love each other very much and have no plans of divorce. I¡¯m sorry to say that the current US economic environment placed us in this unique position. I¡¯m working on another posting at Significant Differences of Chinese/Western Marriages at http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35753 Conclusions: Again, the reader can make his or her own conclusions. I¡¯m sure that I¡¯m not the only one in the same canoe. Jin, the real problem boils down to that the China and the US are so diametrically opposed, in thoughts, deeds, culture, work ethics, etc, etc. Both sides use each other to their own means. IMHO, the workers simply get screwed no matter who runs a company, whether in China or the West. This statement is made from just China & the West, and that is of interest to this forum. However, it runs through all countries, today. I hope that this posting didn¡¯t violate your parameters. After all, I didn¡¯t ¡°brine¡± anyone did I? Sorry! I was just kidding! Just making a bit of fun at you language at your expense. Thanks for the very nice topic starter. Dave

JJ, Your probably a sucker for punishment, same as I. On a more serious note, IMHO, the processing time depends on the office that is handling the processing. My wife and I did the biometrics/AOS processing for her in Oklahoma City, OK, under the now terminated "Fast-Trac" program. If my memory serves me correctly; at the point of the biometrics being taken to AOS interview it was about 4 or 5 weeks. However, please remember this was the previously mentioned terminated program. After the interview she received her 10-year Green Card, approx. 6 weeks later. I saw California listed under your profile as location. What office took your biometrics? This will help other CFL members in giving you a very realistic answer, since I'm sure many are going through the same process, in the same identical office you are right now. You might want to check timelines in the CFL links. If this still doesn't give you an answer, I know Visa Journey has a time line sub-forum http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...&page=times. Just find someone recent that is undergoing the same process, in the same office you are, and you can SWAG ("Scientific Wild-Assed Guess") your processing times fairly easily. I believe that CSC, USCIS (California Service Center), is moving pretty quickly for this process. Someone made a post about this 6 to 9 months ago, but I can't remember who. To add another piece of info, a man I know from CFL, is processing a 130 (K3 Visa) and he is in Alabama. 130 was sent to the Vermont service center, and later was transferred to CSC in California. So obviously, Vermont is becoming bogged down, ergo the transfer. If it is California, I suggest that you set up a folder for you and the better-half, and begin getting your documents ready? Utilities or Cable accounts, mortgage agreements, joint bank account statements, even joint gym fees which I was the sponsor for my wife, and anything else that shows both names. I might add that I only brought 3 months for one of the items I mentioned previously. This was unsatisfactory for Yin's interview. They want at least two or three different entities. The interview is a breeze, unless you are a total idiot. So don't sweat the interview or begin trying to cram like a college test final. Just go in, and the both of you be yourselves. The love that you both have will come out and show in the interview. Dave

JJ, Welcome! Please excuse my sense of humor 1. A Chinese woman born in China, with 5,000 years of culture 2. A Chinese woman later working in Australia. 3. A Chinese woman, that later moves to America for work and more adventures! 4. A Chinese woman that marries a Westerner in Chicago, for even more adventures and a new marriage! 5. A Western husband and a Chinese woman then going through AOS, seeking more adventures in either China, Australia or Chicago, after successful completion of AOS, receiving a temporary green card, that is then later adjusted to a 10-year green card, and later applying for US Naturalization process, while more life adventures come from all sides, still seeking more adventures in the US, China and Australia? All the while, Immigrations officers are involved "helping your process along" (which even more adventures are accrued) I better stop! I'm getting confused; and a bit dizzy too! Welcome to CFL, JJ. If your questions can't be answered here, I don't where else they could be answered. Take care. Dave

Wife: Han Myself: German descent, mixed with Cherokee. And usually in trouble with her, by my own devices! I live and exist day by day, by what US Army personnel knew as B.O.H.I.C.A. (Bend over! Here it comes! Again!), (Chinese translation: ÍäÑü! ˵µ½ÕâÀï! ÔÙ´Î!) Does troublemaker, constitute a culture? The world may never know! Seems that there are many more men like me, than peaceful Chinese women. At least, that is what my wife says! Who am I to argue with a woman with 5,000 years of culture? Oh Crap! She occasionally reads this forum....... Oh well! B.O.H.I.C.A. time and/or in the short future! Dave

Old news. And not all the facts are correct. Private ownership of gold was not prohibited in 2002. Chinese gold coins (i.e. Chinese "Pandas") were openly bought and sold by the general public in gold & coin shops -- usually affiliated or directly owned by the government. Even if you did make the trek to Hong Kong to buy, for example, Canadian Maple Leaves, individuals were not jailed. That people dealt with and owned even the "unofficial" gold bullion and coins was an open secret. The government removed all restrictions at least three years ago. As early as 2006 (if not a bit earlier) you could buy private label gold bullion in any official gold shop -- just like you can today. ICBC has been selling bullion bars over the counter since 2005. Also, not every bank sells gold bullion, though they do sell versions of gold EFTs. Just to chime in a bit on what G.D.B. stated: Many times people are under the impression that purchasing gold if the form of actual bullion, Gold "Pandas" is the only manner in which Asian people were hoarding gold. They (Asian's) have been doing this as far back in 1976 when I first went to Korea. Gold purchased in medallion, chains, rings, etc, etc was always 24K. The gold is merely in a different form than that of a small ingot, or a coin like a Maple Leaf, Krugerrand, or an American Eagle. In short; Chinese have been doing this for a very long time. As I continued to travel throughout the Far East (most esp) Thailand, this is a common currency used for "sin sot" (dowry), that a groom purchased for the bride and/or the family. The bahts of gold prior to a marriage are most often negotiated between the family and future betrothed, prior to a marriage. If the marriage went "south," the bride still had money that was very, very easily exchanged. The Vietnamese are very similar in this value system. This same monetary system still exists among these cultures in the United States. Wander around and look for yourself at a traditionally family-run business in the US, albeit there should be a large cultural population to make this happen. You aren't going to find this in "stick-of-the woods" Oklahoma. At one of these stores, a person would be extremely hard put to find 14K gold. Almost all of the items sold are 24K. I won't even discuss LA or the San Diego area. One can't swing a dead cat without hitting two or three of these stores. In Portland, OR, go to the area of 32d and Sandy Blvd, or Glisan Ave. I know of two or three Vietnamese stores of the same venue that I previously spoke of. China has been doing the same on a lesser scale far below the previous cultures I mentioned. My wife, her family and I, all did the same thing as all Chinese; purchase gold from the jewelry stores in back streets, common open-air malls. Is there any one person in this forum, that hasn't seen the same stores I describing in China? Hell! My wife's ex husband, who works for the Chinese Treasury, gave us directions to stores to get the best prices and were open to negotiations, as a hedge, with the same reasoning of buying low and selling high . My wifes extended family, has been doing this same activity since approx 1982. However, at this time I wouldn't be purchasing extravagant amounts of gold. The gold prices are soaring through the proverbial roof. We have held up on massive gold purchases. The entire idea is to buy when the market is low, and sell when the market reaches its alleged peak. The market is at its peak right now. One man that I know at work unloaded 22 Troy ounces of gold about 2 weeks ago. He assumed that the market had peaked. He was wrong, and now 2 weeks later he regrets his actions. He lost approximately $1,500 due to his lack of expertise and speculations. I'm no speculator and no wise guru of the markets. I held onto to what I have, and simply use it as a nest egg tucked away until I do truly need it. Edited for misspellings.

I whole-heartidly agree with Randy. An ATM card can be a blessing and a devil in disguise. I sent one to Yin (my wife) in China way back when in 2004. She used it frugally and when she really needed it to process paperwork, ¡°mad money,¡± setting up marriage photo arrangements, making reservations for the banquets after the ceremony, etc, etc. She already knew and I emphasized this point, which it was not ¡°carte blanche.¡± When she made charges, she called me within one or two days, what she had done and/or charged, and what she did it for, etc. I this way I could keep my accounts in line and not suck up an overcharge fee. However, give your personal bank a ¡°heads-up¡± that she has this access. Otherwise, they might inadvertently close the account down, when they begin to see ¡°unexplained¡± charges from China. Now, you will have some serious explaining to do to the ¡°better-half, ¡° with issues like: ¡°No honey! I¡¯m not broke and I¡¯m playing your heart!¡± Use your imagination, and try to explain that it is the banks fault! LOL! Good F _ _ing luck on this endeavor with a Chinese woman! BTW, a nice subtle way to check your future wife and how she handles money in your futures. If she sucks today; she probably will suck in the future, regard to financial matters in your futures. My opinion only. This arrangement worked out very well for the both of us, and five years later we still have the same communication regard to finances. My wife and I are Bank of America customers. She was not charged overseas fees, etc. This information is a recent as May, 2009. However, the banks service fees will charge, will vary from bank to bank. May I suggest shopping around a bit? The rates that they charge will vary. Yin¡¯s last visit to China, she wasn¡¯t charged any fees for ATM withdrawal. I raised my withdrawal limits $1,500 at a single withdrawal from China. In the US, I maintained my standard withdrawal limits. This requires a separate visit to the bank and setting this arrangement up, on your part. The largest key logo (North Star logo) that most banks in China want to see is this the three half sails, with STAR, PlusStar. The individual ATMs will/should show what cards they accept/ or not accept. Most of my transfers were so large, that a ATMs wouldn't have worked. Therefore, I was forced to stand in line with a passport. However. I can't see where this would impact your fiancee. After that; the bank rates are to you and the ¡°better-half.¡± I know that People¡¯s Agriculture Bank has personal ties with Bank of America. There probably is a lot more banks, and other members can chime in. This particular bank in Chengdu is the most convenient for us. Therefore, the fees are reduced and/or the same. Regard to your original question/topic; I opted for speed, and accuracy of delivery. I didn¡¯t want to muck around for prices, with my wife¡¯s visa paperwork, supporting documents, etc. I stayed with FEDEX, and when it wasn¡¯t time-critical I used USPS overnight, with delivery conformation. Generally, it cost me about $40 to 50 dollars a pop! However, what is the price of a blue slip? Priceless! And only the good Lord himself knows how much grief the both of you will suffer! Just get the paperwork accurately delivered and F _ _ _ the costs. The both of you have enough crap to worry about already. Dave

Jack , I understand exactly where you are coming from. The PhD of Life! Extremely true and members should pay attention to this point. Myself much combat action, former 1/75 Ranger, three degrees, Military Police, shot twice and I don't count up the ass-kickings. My wife same issues, former PRC employee cell supervisor, highly respected family in government, four teachers/professors, one minister, three surgeons. When it really comes down to it the formal education merely helps you thirst for knowledge more. Your wife and you, have both already done this. How many have not? Hence, the main theme of this thread. The only thing that my wife regrets about me is how I gained my PhD. A bit too violent for her. However, as I have told her many times, I not at all unlike an ugly dog! It is ugly, but it is extremely loyal and loving. I truly wished many times I hadn't been formed this way. However, I can't unring a bell and we are together. I sometimes wonder whether my wife and I would be together today, if I was formed differently. Regard to your comments about rough times at first with your marriage, you hit the nail dead on the head! The thread comments that I'm making are only what I experienced for the last five years in my own marriage. I assure you and other CFL members, that this is an on-going process, and I'm still very far, from knowing everything. I have covered the basics that are easily detected. Now it has become an issue of find the small and subtle clues, that are still needed to make the marriage survive. I truly hope that you return soon and make more comments and what you have discovered. It sounds like you have done the same EXACT same things I'm posting about. BTW, my compliments to your wife. Truly a beautiful woman. I suppose that when we marry such extraordinary beauty we are driven to excel and learn to maintain it. In closing there is one issue regard to our wives. It never ceases to amaze me how Chinese women are not at all unlike a railroad rail, wrapped in velvet and have delicate flowers around the velvet. Very beautiful, and delicate appearing. However, anger them and they can beat you half to death and have the attitude of a wolverine in PMS! Dave

When I left off, we were discussing sexual attitudes and values. I hope that members have gone back and read and reread the link that I provided. For those, needing a refresher, here it is again: http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/china.html. This particle article describes very accurately of what the mind set is and how is begins developing and finally reaches the stage where you are today, at whatever age bracket you are at right now in China and/or the West. We talked about love, finances and/or economic stability, cultural issues that are present from ¡°both sides of the coin.¡± These issues IMHO must be addressed from the very start, continuing into married life and even until the final demise of the marriage whether through death and/or divorce. These values will always, always be here, in one fashion or another. They need to be addressed right from the very first communication by both men and women and still need to be addressed, in the relationship and improved upon. If you fail to do this, both of you will be stumbling around the woods, bumping into tree after tree. I will digress a bit, and describe where the author¡¯s mentality is originating. Perhaps, this particular analogy can be used by others to adjust and improve their own lives. CFL members are keenly aware of my past Far East experiences, travel and past/present marriage. I have always been keenly aware of understanding these differences. My wife and I went about trying to resolve them right from the beginning. After 4 to 5 months past, my wife and I discussed what she thought about this and the interplay they had with a mixed marriage. She explained it to me so clearly it blew me away it was so simple. She described a marriage not at all unlike the Yin and Yang symbol. However, her idea of these values was more complex. It is separated in three different areas, instead of the traditional two. The three areas were to be differentiated into the following areas: Material Goods/Wealth/Prosperity/Family (40%) Love/Sex (30%) Culture/Knowledge/Education (30%) All of the segments are dynamic and ever changing. However, they all will return to their original rest position. As an example: The wife wants to have a new house future economic stability, etc. Item #1 has 40% rating. Therefore, overtime at work, savings, the extra jobs, etc are necessary. Obviously, while attempting to reach this goal the percentages must be altered in Items 2 & 3. Sex with the wife/husband is going to drop. Less attention is paid to each other. Going to movies, concerts, restaurants and other items with Item 3 Culture must change. The trick is to understand the balance. Remember you can change the values for a short time, but no forever. If one attempts to change them permanently the dynamics in the relationship are altered and one has to suffer the consequences. Ergo keep Item 1 in mind and achievable, while sometimes returning Items 2 & 3 to their original position. Later when both have had time to breathe, then readjust the totals towards achieving the goal. Please feel free to adjust this sample I gave to fit your own relationship. The only item that doesn¡¯t really change is Item 1. This IMHO, is what many Chinese men and women seek, and may I mention? You are a part of this equation! They desire the passion of sex and love, being with their family, being with their husband. However, make no mistake! They are Chinese, and material goods are high on the scale. After all, ¡°you can¡¯t eat love¡± and expect to have a marriage survive. Now onwards. It is always a surprise to see how deeply passionate Chinese women are. The trick is to find what makes the particular Chinese woman/man passionate. What drives them? What do they expect in the way of love and sex? There are no easy answers here. What makes my family tick, could possibly be 180¡ã opposite of what works for your family. That is why I satiated I¡¯m no demi-God and have all the answers. I merely provide tools for the reader to use and/or adjust to their own needs. There are some generalities though. One of the first I have seen is with the women, is that want you to love them and they want to love you. They want to look after your needs and fulfill your desires. A rather bold and sweeping statement, if I may so. Remember that you as the man have a reciprocal duty to do the same. Remember the Yin & Yang symbol I gave previously? Now the reader can understand how material goods come into play here. Like I stated; ¡°you can¡¯t eat love.¡± If you have a poor economic status, love will only work for a short time, but will not last forever. I previously discussed about most of the women being ¡°virgins¡± (for the lack of a better term) as to Western passion and how coaching is needed. No truer statement had I made than this particular one. We aren¡¯t talking about kinky and weird stuff here. I¡¯m speaking of the basic sexual act and love between a man and a woman and how it is expressed. Both people have coaching to do here and both need to understand what the opposite needs, wants and highly desires. The sex Report in the link above describes this particular issue very carefully and is covered in great depth. BTW, they were not lying about the times either! I have gotten this from members I speak privately with, complaints that my wife has heard and people I have talked with far prior to this posting. Believe it or not, this is a cause for divorce, coupled with the lack of passion in a full Chinese marriage. The new generation of Chinese women, expect far more of their marriage, than what they currently get. Generally speaking and there are exceptions, most of these women have usually been with a partner who treats the sexual act as more than a quickie event to satisfy themselves and their partner's needs are of little to no consequence. If the partner can¡¯t fulfill this need, they (women) will move onto greener pastures. Is there not a more base reason to not expect the divorce rate to climb even further in China, as the women have a higher set of standards? If the men can¡¯t make this standard; ¡°Hasta la vista!¡± BTW CFL gentlemen! You are under this same standard and can suffer the same fate. If we ran our own business, which employee gets the axe? The energetic one? Or the lackadaisical one? From my own standpoint with my marriage, there are several humorous side notes that I have seen/experienced and can drive this point home very hard. I mean after the entire CFL forum at large does need a laugh. The first is when I arrived in China and I met my wife. Nature took its natural course, thank God! However, I immediately detected not some small amount of sexual inexperience. There were times when the act seemed to be out of X-rated DVD. I particularly noticed this fact when I was being lightly slapped/tapped on the lower appendage numerous times. We were both new in the relationship, so I didn¡¯t want to shoot the relationship in the foot so early yet! However, this kept going over the next seven to ten days. Remember the old adage the ¡°Curiosity killed the cat?¡± Took over with me and I ventured to a place where angels fear to tread. I brought up as delicately as I could be able to do with such an issue. Her response was that he Japanese tutor taught these techniques to her, on how to satisfy a man! COOOOOLLLLLL! I knew that her tutor had been a 28-year-old Japanese woman! I¡¯m thinking to myself; ¡°I thought that Chinese women are a bit of sticks in the mud as to sex!¡± WOOWWWW! A typical male-orientated sexual-fantasy and an answer all in the same moment! She went on to explain after I inquired, that NO, not that WAY! Seems that the tutor had previously returned from Japan and brought home ¡°yellow¡± (DVD porn) material to China for her own husband. Hence she lent the DVD to my wife for ¡°educational¡± purposes, and I got to be on the receiving end of the tutelage! Therefore new CFL members: If your ¡°act¡± seems to be something scripted from a porn movie, it may very well be! However, on a more serious note and back onto the topic. Many Chinese women don¡¯t understand an orgasm. They don¡¯t understand that this to be expected and eagerly sought after from their partner. Believe me when I say this. The first time for my wife, she almost passed out and as she said later felt like she went crazy. I suppose that I could have taken this as that I¡¯m a sexual God. However, once I showered and reduced my swollen male head and ego, I understood that she truly didn¡¯t understand this very natural act. We later discussed and she inquired what was this and was she sick and needed to see a doctor? I chuckled inwardly and told her no she wasn¡¯t sick and that it was natural for a woman to feel this way. This led to an hour-long discussion, between us. Once she understood it, I created my own ¡°Frankenstein.¡± This not uncommon and I have spoken to one man on the telephone. Similar circumstances arose, with the same expected results. She actually retreated from the bed to a corner of a room. She had the same questions my wife did. Once she understood it¡­ Let us just say that he now has his own ¡°Frankenstein.¡± Both of us have women that are becoming very knowledgeable at an incredible rate. A bit of coaching and tutoring goes a long way in making a Chinese wife happy. BTW, if she begins coaching you, then you better be paying attention too! This is no one-way street! The Frankenstein effect I talked about goes far into the relationship. Once the two of you understand each other¡¯s needs known, that 1 to 4 minute crap stops immediately. We are talking about 45 minute to 1.5 hours at a time. I mean honestly, unless she is a ¡°green card rider,¡± is this not the same woman that stumbled into a China Love or Asian Friend Finder office? This woman was seeking for passion right from the onset of the first E-mail. Chinese women are simply more tactful and polite. The greatest part is that you are accepting them as sexually desirable objects, children and all. This IMHO, is one of the greatest failings of Chinese men. Their own standards, goals and expectations that are formed by their own society and imprinted. This isn¡¯t denigrating them at all, albeit sounds this way. There are many good men in China. However, their lack of passions is what kills them, hence the phenomenal rising divorce rate in China, and will most likely keep rising for the foreseeable future. Hence your wife w/children are ¡°hand-me down¡± goods, and no longer sexually desirable. If you don¡¯t think that the wife and/older Chinese woman is or was sexually frustrated/repressed or does not have the same feelings I have forwarded¡­. Well you better go back and do some serious research starting with you wife and actually listen to what she tells you. Remember the first time you unleashed a dragon in your home and the wife became angry? She represses her anger in a similar manner as sexual passions. So why not release both of them? Nahhh! Forget about the anger side of the house! LOL! If a Chinese woman has this much pent-up anger, imagine what the sexual passions are like fully released? You have to dig for gold. It doesn¡¯t just lie around waiting to be picked up! That is what makes gold so valuable in the first place! The same reasoning is true as to the Chinese woman. You married her! Now! Go out and dig for the gold! For new CFL members, these issues are just as important. I would advise that members have a game plan in their mind when meeting the new girlfriend for the first time, children or not. They have the same issues, passions and desires. And NO! Don¡¯t ask her about her orgasms, because you read it in CFL forum or Cerberus said so! Treat the subject as delicately as she wants and is comfortable with. Over the course of time, she will explain it in more graphic detail as she warms up to you. While we are on this subject of sex, lets discuss age in relationship to this. Many members in this forum are generally from 40 to 60 years plus. This is not directed as a taunt to younger members. However, many Chinese women do not factor your age in. In the West we can become an aberration, and in the Far East this is the norm. Men of our age if we ask for the time from a young beautiful women in the West, will have the police arrest us as lecherous old men! A bit extreme, I agree! However, the reader understands my point. Hence, another difference I have detected. Generally speaking, to most Chinese women the age differences are not a huge factor to many of them when choosing a husband. Many times they are attracted to older men. I believe this entails that the older man has more maturity, experience, etc, etc. However, be cognizant of the fact that this does extend throughout many countries in the Far East, such as Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia. I suppose that everyone will want proof is in the pudding. I will pick on man in CFL and beg his indulgence to sink this age difference point home. He is the greatest example I can think of. I assure all of you that it is complimentary. Look at the photograph of LeeFisher3 (CFL moderator) and his family. Lee is older, probably very distinguished looking when one meets him in person. Now! Look at his beautiful wife and their children that Lee accepted as his own! WOW! Is this a beautiful woman or what?!? However, think for just one minute and imagine the reactions/looks that his co-workers or a new Western acquaintance gives when seeing Lee and his wife together, and Lee introduces her the first time. Do the words ¡°robbing the cradle,¡± ¡°She is just after his money, look at their age difference,¡± have any meaning yet? Look at people¡¯s eyes deeply and watch their hands. You will quickly see what I¡¯m talking about. BTW, young CFL, your comments are: ¡°She just wants a Green Card,¡± ¡°He must be a loser, since he married a Chinese woman and can¡¯t find a US woman,¡± ¡°Why didn¡¯t he marry a Western woman? It must be just for sex!¡± As a side point, if you under the impression that the US has far progressed past these statements, Well! You may have resided too long in your little walnut shell of life! However, Lee and his family are one of many successful relationships that you see where age does NOT have any significance. I¡¯m sorry if I offended anyone not talking about them. Lee was just one of the past samples I could come up with from the cuff! I should also mention that many others and myself are approximately 10 years senior to our wives. However, I digress. This pattern seems to begin dying out the more affluent a country is, such as Korea or Japan. BTW older guys! If you think that you are off the hook with the previous paragraphs, then you are in for a real rude shock! You aren¡¯t, and you will see the women every bit as passionate. The rules and standards change and/or modified somewhat. However, every bit of that same passion is there. How many other sex studies have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that a woman begins sexually peaking beginning at 30 and extends until approximately 50 years or so? Unfortunately, for us men we are worried about our jobs and the ilk and we begin degrading. Therefore, go out lose some weight, work on the cardiovascular systems, think about Cialis and the like, and begin searching for sales on vitamin E at the local pharmacy. You will need it. I will continue to stay on this subject and post more on a timelier basis. My schedule is finally coming clear. I hope to hear from other members in regard to these issues. Dave

Woo Hoo !! Finally !! Come to the Dark Side, O Cerberus - Volvos Rock ! Except for the 2001 V70 wagon series - stay away from that one - it was designed without Volvo's normal '500,000 miles if you do the maintenance' engineering team. To the CFL forum at large, I just finally signed on today and have intention of finishing this thread. I know an explanation is in order. 2 days after my last posting I did a maintenance team was alerted. We ended up in Guam, Sasebo Japan, and finally in Dubai (not actually in Dubai, but the sea near there). Dubai was great even though we never landed. However, it was the greatest adventure I¡¯ve ever had. Essentially, we were living on a ¡°boat.¡± For the uninitiated to the US Navy the term boat refers to those aboard a vessel (aka ship) or the remaining class of boasts and are always referred to as such. Some of the Ex-navy members now know what I¡¯m talking about. My God! I was blown away by the professionalism of the crew. Spent 4 days here and I will remember this until I die. The only drawback was ¡°hot-bunking¡± with two other seamen. BTW, I have mentioned this before. Try to imagine me at 295 pounds plus, 6 feet 7 inches, fitting into a naval bunk. Gives new meaning to fetal position in your mother¡¯s womb! LOL! Thanks so much for the adventure guys! I¡¯m sorry my size took up so much room in the wardroom during meals! After this returned to San Diego and had three audits conducted on various operations that I¡¯m involved in. LOL! Yeah! We got gored! I suppose it was not unexpected. The auditors have to find something to justify their paycheck! After this, I opened up a can of whoop-ass, when I discovered a glitch in the material supply system, that affected a large number of ships and we are still attempting to rectify it. I won¡¯t go into great detail and only one member knows about it and my involvement, would be boring anyway to other anyway. Thanks Kevin, for being my ¡°crying-shoulder!¡± First, second and third round are on me. The dinner is also! See you soon in CA. Anyway Sebastian, regard to the car, I have found the perfect one for the wife. Check out this link. BTW, turn your sound system up, while watching! I did a lot of racing around when I was a kid, built several muscle cars, designed after NASCAR. Sorry! I hate drag racing. However; TOP END? Now this is another matter by itself! When I watched this video, I have never in my life heard an engine howl when it sucks in oxygen. 253 MPH? For our wife¡¯s and fianc¨¦e¡¯s this equates to 407 KPH! Now all we need is a reformed Chinese taxi driver! LOL! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4660115890703519062. All I need to do it to win the Mega Millions Lottery, and then easily purchase this little gas-saver. I do apologize to members. I have three pending telephones calls to two CFL members and in my mind they have questions and will always come first, and finally the wife calling from China. I assure you that this thread will continue! For members please go back and refresh yourself on the hyperlink I posted. Now is when we get to the real ¡°nitty-gritty!¡± BTW as a teaser; this is the segment where we discuss jealousy. Obviously, Chinese women never show their jealousy do they? Dave

I apologize all, This week has been more than a bit hectic. Seems that the entire week so far has been one long Monday-type of day. Ever have one of those days, when things start out bad, you attempt to fix, the problem and it gets worse and worse, no matter how hard you to re repair the damage? For mew this was one of those weeks. Anyway, now that I¡¯m done venting lets us get back to where I left off. Sex and Love & Roles of the Genders in a Society. To the average Westerner, this is seldom a problem. Our particular societies whatever they, are a far more liberal than in the Far East. Regard to the Far East, depending on the variables, changes will occur among the different cultures. I¡¯m speaking of China as compared to Thailand, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Each particular culture is either more or less liberal. However, in regard to China at one time it was fairly controlled for the most part. Unless you have the social status to do what ever you wanted to. (e.g. emperors and their concubines). Obviously; not a great option for the average Chinese woman and/or man. Therefore, societal ¡°expected¡± mores, standards and behaviors became fairly deeply entrenched. The time I speaking of began in the 1940s and proceeded until approximately the 1990s. This is where most of the wives will fall within. Again, please notice that I¡¯m avoiding the Chinese men. This is approximately three generations, give or take, of societal imprinted standards beginning passed from generation to generation until you are where we are today. By now even the most not savvy person that is married to a Chinese woman, has detected that their average loving relationship, can be compared to a Western relationship, but has many differences. The love is the same, the tactile responses are the same, etc, etc. However, there are very significant differences in certain ideas, assumptions and the way that love is expressed. This pretty much sets the stage for what I will be discussing. A while back, I offered to CFL members a Sex Survey for their use. Maybe 15 to 20 were sent out. This survey is extremely comprehensive and is approximately 20 years old no, but is still fairly accurate. The survey¡¯s information will begin to become obsolete once the current generation (X and XY) reaches their age of sexual realization. By this time new standards will be established. I should also mention at this point that the longer the individual Chinese is removed from China, the less impact the survey will have. This is due to the individual, example your wife; having a new relationship in the West, Western husband, discarding of old Chinese values, and new learned behavior overlaying the Chinese imprinted behaviors that she was raised with. The reader should go to the hyperlink to and read through it. http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/china.html. Once you have read it, you will understand many things about how the imprinted behaviors affect the individual. If you read between the lines you will also detect how and why Chinese society and its leaders make the decisions that they do. Please remember the Banning of Pornography thread in CFL, every one was carrying on about and how it restricted, it restricted free speech, was controlling, yadda, yadda! I can't find the link now. However, read the report above and understand the viewpoint and standards of the atypical Chinese leader. Then you will see the answer very clearly. Gentlemen, if you don¡¯t read this report; I can guarantee you some hard times ahead, never fully understanding your wife. BTW, my wife matches this report very closely when we first met. I should mention that she has been in the US for almost 4 years and as I stated previously the report has less impact, with the passage of time. I will take a few specific excerpts from the report and elaborate on them. ¡°¡­In 1996, Suiming Pan, head of the Institute for Research in Sexuality and Gender at the Renmin University of China in Beijing, analyzed 11 social surveys on sexuality in Chinese cities between 1986 and 1995 and reinterviewed 103 men and 73 women. The ten factors list below, which Pan (1996) identified as affecting sexological research and studies in China, also reveal some important insights into the general concepts of love and sexuality that prevail in the Chinese culture. For most people, the Chinese sexual vocabulary is either cryptic or considered dirty and abusive. The more familiar with each other people are, the more difficult it is to talk about sex. There is often a sexual undertone between heterosexual interviewers and interviewees. Many tragic or socially illegitimate sexual matters would rather be forgotten than discussed with the interviewees. Female interviewers are often considered ¡°bad women.¡± Pornography, sex workers, and non-marital sex are illegal in the minds of Chinese people. Ordinary people do not understand why researchers study sexuality. Most ordinary people are unable to evaluate and express their own sexual feelings, or even their behavior. Most females feel like vomiting when questioned about sexual matters. Ordinary people think that if you ask a question about a kind of sexual behavior or relationship, then it means that you really like it yourself.¡± Readers, items 1, 2,7, 8 and 9, remember the age of the report. However, look at the reinterviews done by Pan in 1996! This data is only 13 years old! Don¡¯t our own wives, and fianc¨¦es fall dead right into the middle of this mentality and people that were surveyed? ¡°¡­A surprising 91 percent of the 8,000 married couples interviewed by Dalin Liu (1992) in cities and rural areas expressed satisfaction with their spouse. However, when Dalin looked deeper, he found that the average Chinese couple has intercourse four to seven times a month, with peasants invariably reporting 25 percent more sex than city couples. However, 34.1 percent of the rural couples and 17.2 percent of city couples admit to less than one minute of foreplay or none at all. Consequently, 44.7 percent of urban wives and 37 percent of rural wives experience pain during intercourse. Only 16.8 percent of rural couples kiss or embrace apart from lovemaking. (See also Section 14D for data on marital sex and satisfaction among married couples in the 1992 nationwide survey.) Marital dissatisfaction is very common in China today. Some estimate that as many as 60 percent of the Chinese are unhappy with their marriages. A survey of 3,000 young people in Wuhan, the capital of Hubei Province, showed that only 20 percent of respondents were satisfied with their marriage. In a survey of 600 couples, all residents of big cities, 70 percent said they were unhappy with their sex lives. A random survey of married couples in Shanghai found that 45 percent were unhappy with their sexual relationships. A survey of 6,000 divorce cases in five large cities, including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou (Canton), Wuhan, and Xi¡¯an, by ten newspapers showed that 72 percent of divorces are caused by disharmony of sexual life¡­¡± Readers please read the second underlined passage. This is very, very and goes on today in China. Divorce has become an option and the past Chinese social stigmatization of divorce is rapidly. Using an analogy, not at all unlike a child released into a candy store. Chinese women that are unhappy are moving onto to ¡°greener pastures.¡± I know that my own wife fell into this. There were incompatibility issues that were, the prime cause. However, you can damn well bet you last paycheck that sex was in the middle of it also! Why shouldn¡¯t a woman have a good marriage and a healthy sexual relationship with her husband? I fully anticipate the divorce rate to rise even more to breath-taking levels in about 5 years, which will stagger the imagination. ¡°¡­Increasingly, among urban Chinese and even among government officials who once actively opposed divorce, divorce is being viewed as an acceptable alternative to an unhappy marriage. Many officials even recognize a positive side to divorce. When both parties agree, a divorce can be granted in three days; not long ago, the wait was years. Important as the government¡¯s attitudinal shift is, a larger factor is the growing expectations women bring to marriage today, and their growing demands in an era of expanding opportunity. In the past, women were happy to settle for a stable income, a home, and children. To these expectations, women are now adding romance, sex, and affection. While women increasingly enjoy more independence and choices in career, place to live, husband, lover, they are also more subject to unemployment. Meanwhile, the shift has also brought a resurgence of traditional male values, including the right to have an affair.¡± This excerpt doesn¡¯t even need me to comment on it. If you haven¡¯t seen this personally yourself, heard or read about these issues, I will bring the umbrella to you. Buddy, you are standing in a rainstorm! The remainder of the article you can read for yourself. BTW for they naysayers regard to pornography and Freedom of Speech: ¡°¡­The climax of this wave of repression seemed to occur on January 21, 1988, when the twenty-fourth session of the Standing Committee of the Sixth National People¡¯s Congress adopted supplemental regulations imposing stiffer penalties on dealers in pornography. Under these regulations, if the total value of the pornographic materials is between 150,000 Yuan and 500,000 Yuan, the dealer shall be sentenced to life imprisonment. In a nationwide strike against pornography, beginning a few weeks after the Tiananmen Square massacre, on July 11, 1989, 65,000 policemen and other bureaucrats were mobilized to investigate publishing houses, distributors, and booksellers. By August 21, more than 11,000,000 books and magazines had been confiscated, and about 2,000 publishing and distributing centers, and 100 private booksellers were forced out of business. But then Deng Xiaoping, China¡¯s top leader, went further by declaring that some publishers of erotica deserved the death penalty. It may be at least one of the most severe political punishments against ¡°pornography¡± ever suggested by a national leader anywhere in the world. After this, in July 1990, the Supreme People¡¯s Court issued a new decree stating that the death sentence is the proper penalty for traffickers in prostitution and/or pornography.¡± I think I know what business I won¡¯t be setting up in China to make a few extra bucks! Now, onto more important matters. Chinese women generally love sex and love since they go hand-in-hand. If you have an unhappy Chinese woman; I assure you that sex and love are going to suck! Remember what I said about trust and confidence in the second posting I did? This has direct interplay into this field. If the reader has read the sex Survey in the hyperlink which I gave previously, they will begin to understand why at times the average Chinese woman is not the raving sexually charged woman, that greets you and the door, throws you on the floor and ¡°has her way with you!¡± They are as a general whole, demure and respect their husbands. They want you! However, this is done at the right time and place. Chinese women do NOT get up in front of your friends and declare how much they love you. These are issues when they get behind the closed doors of their home. I once stated that many times Chinese women are somewhat of ¡°virgins¡± as to love and sex! They simply haven¡¯t had the past experiences that you or I have had. Yes gentlemen! Pornography and please don¡¯t even attempt to tell me that you purchased the magazine for the articles! LOL! Many times, the male partner must understand the Chinese woman and the knowledge that she is bringing to the marriage. The typical man will have to do a bit of guiding, teaching and coaching to help her. He must also understand what she is comfortable with, what she enjoys and desires. If you don¡¯t know, start gently with her, talk with her and ASK! Once she is comfortable with her husband and fianc¨¦e, she will let you know. Most of the ladies enjoy tactile responses and her partner appreciating her for what she is! Just a side note, avoid ticklish spots. There is no quicker way to piss a woman off, than to accidentally carried away and hit one of them. Just take my own experience of this as a fact. Like I stated previously, I would relate some personal experiences of my own in, without going into huge details. I think the largest surprise I had with my wife is the amount of collateral damage to the neighbors. In short....noise! I China, my wife is fairly quiet. Once we reached the states and there were no Chinese neighbors? Holy Crap! Remember the movie Porky¡¯s and the locker room scene? Same thing. I asked her about this once. She stated that now she could act the way she felt and wanted to speak! HMMMMMM Freedom of Speech I suppose! Boy! Do I love America for this! I will close for now and begin posting on a timelier basis. Like I stated previously, this week has be one long damn long week. Thank God Friday is tomorrow! Take care my friends! Dave

Don, Yes! I see it! Don't you? Both are "stroking" each other in a different way! 1 ) She cares and is responsible for your getting to work. She understands the kiss and handing her the coffee cup. This is her "assumed responsibility" regard to her husband, and he way of love given to you. She doesn;'t have to do this if she didn't want to. 2 ) You are careful of her and wave her out when it is safe. Do you think that she doesn't see this and understand the care and love that you have, to hold her in such high regard? This reinforces in her mind that you care. This keeps her love alive and makes her value you even more. 3 ) You forgot one day. One day of absentmindedness, is quickly forgiven! Isn't this love and understanding to you and your position as a man and the breadwinner, that might have other things on his mind? If she didn't love you or disliked you, you wouldn't have pulled this trick off, without a nice sized catfight! Remember what I said about older couple's love. Now you are "comfortable" and she loves being held and cared for by a "comfortable" man. Otherwise, she could pack her bags and depart. I see that you have over 5 years under your belt also! Need I say more? Dave

Craig Thanks for you enlightening story. Remember what I said regard to being with you the entire time? Now you understand perfectly why I said this and you were the acid test to prove my conclusions. I sort of similar to your circumstances. When I first began talking with Yin I was a Pre-med student (Pharmacy) and was working on a minor in Chemistry. I had numerous Chinese fellow students and Chinese professors. I went and asked all of them recommendations. From Chinese students I got a lot of so-so answers, titters/giggles and embarrassed looks from the girls, younger men would give evasive embarassed answers. Only one professor gave me some good advice. In short, I ended up spending countless hours on the Internet, the libraries reading and researching in my spare time. I picked up volumes of information that by the time I reached China, I hit the ground running and Yin completed my tutelage. BTW, I'm still learning today! Hence, my statements that I don't and won't ever profess that I have every answer. There is another entity that helped me.....That was every member in CFL, their postings and thoughts. I read every damn entry from all members and learned an incredible amount from them. Their ideas, failures and successes really cemented the information into my mind! I had begun reading CFL back in Feb or March of 2004, before joining. http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...ic=6373&hl= I damn near knew every step that I needed to take, from my reading of thir postings. Albeit, there would be a few failures along the way, which could easily be alleviated by CFL members. Mingjun's friend is a part of the Chinese social network I was speaking of in my posting. When Chinese friends bond...they bond for life, barring a catastrophic issue, betrayal, etc. They will fight and spat sometimes. However, they always come back together in the end! May I also add that if you ever fight with Mingjun you will be fighting her friend too! I should state that anything you say or do with your wife will immediately be sent via the proverbial "bamboo telegraph!" Plenty of sisterly advice will be rendered too! Been there, done that and have the T-shirt to prove it myself! Two Chinese women against one Western man? Well, you figure up the odds. It sounds like you are off to a roaring start. That is why I encouraged members to use my posting to even improve their happiness and relationship. Please understand this is on-going with my own family 5 years later. That is the hard problem; keeping up what you have today. My wife dislikes a hot fire for a love and marriage. She prefers many slow burning embers. As she has stated the fire burns longer then! Dave

Boy Don are you lucky! Yin is taking driving lessons from a Chinese (speaking may add!) in china. This is far better than me teaching her driving in California traffic, conducting an ESL language short course, all the while negotiating a left hand-turn. I just guessing that I'm saving about $200.00 in Valium alone. However to you point. Yep the better half wanted her own Honda, Toyota too, save gas, not to big, etc. What has been posted in CFL soooooo many times? When one Chinese trusts another, does not matter if they know they are talking about...... what they say they are is always RIGHT! He has recommended a Mercedes for safety of a new driver! He stated that the 500 series is fairly safe! I hope that he is the co-signer for me! Guess what I started shopping for? However, later she changed her mind. She called and told me she decided on a "wol wo!" "Honey WTF is a "wol wo"?" Took about a couple minutes and the same Chinese instructor told her this is a safe car too! Then it hit me Gentlemen of CFL, this is how native Chinese people call a Volvo! Myself, greatly relieved since I was saving around $20,000, buying a "wol wo" as compared to a 500 Series Mercedes! To be honest Don, my wife doesn't have too many grudges against Japanese. The only time this issue comes up is when a Westerner in San Diego or wherever, asks if she is Japanese. Where they get this weird idea from I don't know. I would definitely agree with you regard to the black vs white issue. She will stay one way until she finds out that it sucks and then switches to white, entirely missing the gray area that is in between and probably far closer to the issue. Dave

Gentlemen of CFL and Jesse, you damn well better listen here to a man at China "Ground Zero!" Jesse you are absolutely correct in what you have stated and could not agree more with you! I have always second-guessed myself and asked myself what if I did this? What could I have done better? Me adapting to Chinese culture, more quickly than my wife adapting to a Western Culture? You gotta be kidding me! She would win hands down! I have a better chance of turning into a seagull and soaring over Coronado Island, than my ever completely assimilating into the Chinese culture totally! Therefore, we come back to the control issue. To me it sounds like you handled her as best as what I stated previously; Protecting her, mentoring her, etc, etc. I would not feel sad in the least if I was in your shoes. One comment you made was this and is very significant: "...Like any woman however, she is easiest to talk to, when I'm not pushy, express kindness and warmth. I am learning to refrain from using any form of, "I told you so," when she does something on her own. She really prefers being independent, and learning things her way, rather than having me provide her with a step-by-step procedure." Jesse, this what I meant about stopping the river. Instead, you chose to divert the water in a quiet and lovingly manner. Water, (a Chinese woman/man) will always chose the best path that for their particular river (desires, dreams. goals and aspirations). Yes! It does seem to be controlling, but in actuality it is not. Your mother and mine did the same when we stood on a street corner and crossed it for the first time. They controlled us and/or diverted our own rivers also didn't they? Were the imposing their wills or protecting the one that they love? Aren't you doing the same thing? Our problem we have as husbands, is not to be too controlling. There are times, that I will not stop my wife from a silly venture she has. While she takes off, I get the Handi Wipes out and prepare for the inevitable mess. Many times, it is better to let them skin their knees with a failed venture and learn from the lesson. Dave

Damn Don! Dead on target! Each woman and their idea of what they perceive of love is a bit different than someone else's. That is why I put that thought forward in the beginning of the post, hoping that reader's would pick up on it. You did! A Chinese woman will weigh all of her options and see for the lack of a better term: How sure of a bet are you? My wife did this weighing me being a student and her future life. Any person that wouldn't take this aspect into some type of consideration, is just looking to get hit by a truck! You are correct in another fact that Chinese women don;t want to hear from your lips how much you love! They want you to to show how much your care in action! Yes, my wife give the routine obligatory I love you's to each other! However, they really mean about as much as you meeting a person in the street and asking how are you? Do you really care! Not in the least and both of us don't want to hear about his/her poor day! This is a expected societal expectation acknowledging the other persons intrinsic value. That is what I stated about the variety of strokings. You wife doesn't get off the couch and state loudly that she loves you. Rather, she touches you to let you know how she feels, or will call your name. That is why I encouraged members to go back and look into their relationships and look for these small subtle signs. I assure that they are there, even older gents like you! BTW, like Griz and older members with older wife's what I'm talking about, the circumstances do change radically as well over the passage of time, the length of the marriage and the acclimatization of the woman/man to the West. What were the words that were used in a John Wayne movie? "You (referring to John Wayne) are comfortable!" Perhaps, you should change your screen name from Donahso to Duke! You comfortable old chair you! Dave I Went back to edit this post for a specific comment I failed to address: This is in regard to Chinese women and their pragmatism regard to marriage. Please understand that your wife is for the lack of a better term "untouchable" goods in China and most esp w/children. They didn't just accidentally stumble into China Love or wherever office and sign up! Obviously, there is an agenda afoot! No crap! However, are these women seeking something better than what they have today and aren't they protecting their families/children and loss of their own face? My own wife suffered a divorce, not due to infidelity or some other horror story. She simply wanted a person that respected her, listened to her, cared for her, that she could do the same with. However, as Don pointed out; they do indeed have an agenda. No one is this stupid to hook their chains onto a "falling star!" I wouldn't and neither would you! Why is should be unexpected or peculiar, that a Chinese woman seeking a Western husband not do the same thing? Most Chinese women don't know about the love that we express as lovers in a loving Western relationship. In short; they are "virgins" that need a bit of guidance. Want to have a shitty relationship? Please, feel free not to advise and mentor her and recognize what she wants. I will promise you a peck of trouble down the road! This is what Chinese women were seeking for in the first place: a husband, a breadwinner, etc, etc that I have posted about, in the first place. Please remember what I stated previously: You can't eat love! Not lovemaking! I'm speaking of treating them as women with love, empathy, showing them respect that they truly matter and have value in the world. If you can do this...the lovemaking or whatever will flow naturally all by itself, with no help from you, "thank you very much!"