Feathers268

I don't put this in the sphere of dominance as much as I would put it in indirect, implied communication (ie: agreement; if she didn't agree, you'd see maybe something different). You were simply supposed to know the answer by her silence and posture. Dominance is her word, not mine. I agree with what you say above, however I can see how deep this goes with her in other ways. This little example just touches the surface of it. It is a little baffling, to me, that she wants a version of "Hey babe here's the deal, take it or leave it" .............line from Coal Miner's Daughter. What I can see in her actions is looking for a level of safety. I hope this does't come accross the wrong way, but if the older generations have this structure set up and is what she is used to, to have more say in the relationship could be frightening not knowing exactly what is to be expected being on an equal footing. Being submissive would allow you to make the hard decisions leaving her to safely follow. In my case, Jen never really knew this type of lifestyle so she just addapted into the relationship we have now. The only guidance I see her seeking from me, is the result in feeling her way though western society. Shoot, we even had a conversation about why she has 2 rings and me only one. She still wonders on engagement, why the man also does't get a ring from the woman.

This is dead on. I could smell garlic on almost everyone in China, and trust me, as a recovering smoker of over thirty years, I can't smell much. It gets in the clothes and lingers even after washing. What you drink as well. Milk is the principle cause of the oder for Western folks--as smelt by Chinese. Milk? Oh God and I'm a milkaholic! I'll go though a gallon in 2 days easy. Jen is like so many here. She doesn't use nor need deoderant. The occasional perfume maybee but that's about it.

Trust me, that would be the far from my mind on how to handle our relationship. I think in part, he worried because while Jen as tere before and during my time there, her cousin seemed to open up and behave a little more like Jen espesially when it came to shopping. Other threads have been started in the past as to why our wives love us so much and I think this could be a big part. I think it would be interesting to see if Chinese women are tired of the traditional role, how far will the younger Chinese men be willing to follow suit. Also, what about out female members who married a Chinese man? Do traditional values show up causing friction here in the states? Or, have they possibly found men who are adopting a more modern way of thinking when it comes to marriage? Dennis, the other interesting part is he is 3 years younger than I so these values seem prevalent right up to the 80's and 90's. I wonder if this is starting to change with China opening up to the west.

With the fear that this post would be lost in another thread gone far off course, I pulled it to start here. To understand a little about who the person I was talking to, when I first traveled to China, it was his family Jen was staying at. Though his kindness and ability to speak English made me feel at home in a far away land and was very instumental in setting the environment to which Jen and I started our real relationship and is a very big part in the fact that we are together today. In fact though our relation is loosly though marriage of 2 cousins, I think of him very much as family. And, it was him who asked me to give Jen her American name that first time I was in China. I had a conversation about this when in China with the husband of Jen's cousin. Seems he was a bit alarmed about how I was treating Jen as a partner rather than her master and giving her freedoms that are not good in his eyes as a Chinese wife. 1, Budgeting for trips to China was too expensive and I should have not allowed Jen to travel to China. 2, I should take more charge of our marriage dictating every part of what Jen does. 3, It is not a good idea to allow Jen to meet and become friends with other Chinese here as it would lead to her not learning English and assimilating into America. 4, Reguardless of expense, I should demand that we have a baby right away as this will change Jen's attitudes about many things. 5, Taking care of me when I am sick or injured should not be looked at as her caring for me out of love but is rather her duty as a wife. 6, Jen should be my subordinate not my partner. 7, We would have a much better chance of making it by starting our own business in China rather than staying in the United States. My response was to agree with him by politley nodding my head rather than arguing about the differences in an American marriage. Will Jen and I make any changes? Naw, we seem fine as is.

OK, they are traits that are passed down from generations of Chinese mothers to their daughters. So, what are these traits? I think I should have married my wifes mother, that aint one of those eedepusis conplexpore conplex is it? Marrying your own mother would qualify as an Oedipus Complex... to marry your mother in-law.. let's just call it a Mikey-Plus Complex you are just determined to send this to the TC. Aren't you! Well, anyway, is she hot? I WOULD DO HER Mine is dead for some years... never meet her... so the "hotiness" is unknown... I think she's cold I'm sorry, I thought this was a serious question. It was.. until mikey (and I) replied... hopefully someone will steer it back on course... I hope so, this really was I conversation I had in China not more than a couple of weeks ago and thought very interesting to see the expectations on the Chinese side. If my post can't start, I'll make a new thread tomorrow. I think it really could me a good topic for discussion.

OK, they are traits that are passed down from generations of Chinese mothers to their daughters. So, what are these traits? I think I should have married my wifes mother, that aint one of those eedepusis conplexpore conplex is it? Marrying your own mother would qualify as an Oedipus Complex... to marry your mother in-law.. let's just call it a Mikey-Plus Complex you are just determined to send this to the TC. Aren't you! Well, anyway, is she hot? I WOULD DO HER Mine is dead for some years... never meet her... so the "hotiness" is unknown... I think she's cold I'm sorry, I thought this was a serious question.

Interesting topic since I had a conversation about this when in China with the husband of Jen's cousin. Seems he was a bit alarmed about how I was treating Jen as a partner rather than her master and giving her freedoms that are not good in his eyes as a Chinese wife. 1, Budgeting for trips to China was too expensive and I should have not allowed Jen to travel to China. 2, I should take more charge of our marriage dictating every part of what Jen does. 3, It is not a good idea to allow Jen to meet and become friends with other Chinese here as it would lead to her not learning English and assimilating into America. 4, Reguardless of expense, I should demand that we have a baby right away as this will change Jen's attitudes about many things. 5, Taking care of me when I am sick or injured should not be looked at as her caring for me out of love but is rather her duty as a wife. 6, Jen should be my subordinate not my partner. 7, We would have a much better chance of making it by starting our own business in China rather than staying in the United States. My response was to agree with him by politley nodding my head rater than arguing about the differences in an American marriage. will Jen and I make any changes? Naw, we seem fine as is.

I remember that place well Dan. That was some good eating that morning. We just had a place open here in Modesto that serves dim sum but I haven't got the nerve to take Jen to try it. I'm afraid to see what it is like if they Americanize the menu. Besides, I'm still coming down from having the real deal in China. Welcome back Jim, but did you have to remind me you were enjoying the real stuff B) But of course Dan, especially since this time we ventured to new places with different regional taists. I actually envy my aunt and uncle who are right now on the plane headed for Shanghai. I wish we were with then to make sure they venture out away for the canned tour they are on.

I remember that place well Dan. That was some good eating that morning. We just had a place open here in Modesto that serves dim sum but I haven't got the nerve to take Jen to try it. I'm afraid to see what it is like if they Americanize the menu. Besides, I'm still coming down from having the real deal in China.

This is what Jen did. I was surprise because I never thought to talk with her about it but at the AOS interview she was asked what name she wanted and she chose my family name. she kept her given name to keep paperwork simple and Jennifer for social settings here in the states.

Anything you want to do for the reasons of thinking it's a good idea is worth doing. I also am quite serious that given the chance, I would put in a garden and pond, something both my father and grandfather have done.(minus the pond) I just wanted to express the feeling that we can do too much in trying to make our wifes feel more at home. In my case, once here, Jen was not interested in transforming the apartment into her little peice of China and now, a year later, she has started puting her own touch to the place and is making it her own. Not so much Chinese or American, but her. Perhaps it's her age or where she is from in China, but she just isn't interested in bringing China here. She is just interested in making this our home.

Here is a thought. While talking with the husband of Jen's cousin in Kunshan, it was expressed to me how he was concerned that Jen was a little too free and as a Chinese wife, she should be a complete subordinate in my house. Far from my thoughts as an American looking for a partner, not a servant. Of course working in the laundry business, he was also shocked to learn that most dryers actually burn natural gas for heat. I'm all for making Jen feel at home but at the same time, we are in America and in the long run, she will do better thinking and acting as an American. Yes she will always hold on to her heritage, but it should not dictate everything about her. Over the past year, Jen has had a lot to get used to and at times I was told how things are done better in China. While in China, it was expressed to me that we might have a real chance of doing very well opening our own business in China that would lead to possibly moving there, an idea at least worth considering. Jen's response, "I think we better in America." If you want to put up clothes lines, redo bathrooms, hell, even do your own garden and coy pond(I wouldn't mind doing myself). Just remember, there has to be a limit. We are willing to accept how different culture is in China, don't you think we as Americans deserve the same?

Man I love having a young wife! Jen accepted the dryer just as soon as we got it home and she has no problems puting anything through the washer and dryer. I also got her to accept the idea that the dish washer also does a very good job. That one only took her a year to do so.

I understand your points and I believe them to be quite valid but in our society, once you loose public support, all bets are off. In a civil suit it could come down to the opinion of a jury and here in California, such things have awarded damages in the past. On the side, Jen and I arrived back home here in the states on Saturday after a quite stressful trip thanks to UAL. That aside, the remainder of our stay was quite wonderful and showed much of the better side of China.

Actually, it was never stated that Jen insisted that we get room. I've called Jen "my little Spitfire" as she has no problem speaking her mind if she feels something is wrong. Over the phone, she was told we had a room and the fact that it was denied upon our arrival was a little more than she was able to take. Also, my first night in China was at the very same hotel so this was the actions of one person rather than the hotel management who gave us a much better rate for a better room at thier sister hotel on the other side of the city. This was compounded by the mocking attitude of the door "man" who when met by his superior, removed both offending parties from the lobby and started desperatly to make things right. Yes, it is true that here we can reserve the right to refuse service to anyone but if I, a white man, refused to serve a minority, though within my rights and for a legitament reason, I could be in for a lot of trouble including a civil suit saying my refusal was race based and successful or not could ruin my credibility and possibly my business. Even here on CFL, racism has been alledged when someone's post was critisized. All this being said, Jen's main problem was the removal of a room already promised and the mocking of her husband, as I'm sure most wives here would feel the same and mine was these "people" taking it to a physical level. If someone puts thier hands on Jennifer in anger, to me, to steal a line from "The Fantastic 4", IT'S CLOBERING TIME!

Actually, the US has been pressuring China to allow the Yuan to flutuate freely so it can strengthen against the dollar. It would raise the price of Chinese goods making American products more competitive. In the long run it would help China but would hurt at first as the US would buy less. In the mean time, it just might be a good time to invest in Chinese realistate or currency before it starts to clime.

As someone who orders alot at drive thrus, I have 3 complaints to lodge. First, if you can knock on the bun and it sounds like your front door, ITS STALE. Do not use it for my burger. Second, pay attention to what I say. If I say "no onions", I mean it and repeat the order back so I know you got it. If I had time to come in to correct your mistakes, I would have parked and come in in the first place. Third, and I blame the managers not the workers, ESL students do NOT belong working the drive through. I would expect that when I order, I will speak the common language of the US. Last I checked, that is English. Those who do not speak it don't belong at the drive through. On either side. As a side, attitudes that you are doing me a favor for making food for me is wrong. As a paying customer I expect to be treated with respect. Customer service is your job and should not be resented because you just don't feel like working today.

Sorry Lee, Jen already told me, "do this no easy". I',m thinkin of looking into this one myself. After all, I need to be able to hold my own in the kitchen. Well, after an encore performance of "yong Qi" at the local kareoke bar it's off to Bejing. Rumor has it they know something about duck there. Also, if anyone knows, I saw a program on the travel channel called "No Reservations" He ate at a place called the noodle loft in Bejing. Anyone familiar with it? Looked like good eating. B)

I had not planned to cronicle too much about the latest tour Jen and I are on in China but this was too much to keep quiet about. While touring West Lake, we ate at a restaurant serving local foods including a beggars chicken and a local fish served in a sweet & sour with vinegar and then again today we had pork in this same sauce. My thoughts of what is good sweet & sour have changed. If you have a chance to come to Hangzhou, do so. It's history is ritch with some of the first sites of Budism in China and a beautiful scenic region as well. If I were to have any questions, does anyone know of this sweet and sour, and more important, HOW DO YOU MAKE IT?

So far for me, the only political question was about us Californians electing Arnold just before I came to China for the first time. Otherwise it is usually about the differences between American day to day life compared to here in China. Walking the streets, Jen and I have had little more than a stare or 2 and otherwise have had nothing but good experiences including a taxi driver turning off the meter before accrueing more money than the initial 10rmb for the ride. Not even the fact that the back of my shirt is an American flag causes trouble. I hope my original post doesn't discourage anyone thinking of coming here for the first time. As a country and a culture, China is a true gem and having the ability to have a more personallized visit is one in a million. I feel sorry for those who will only know China though a tour group. We definatly have it much better.

Dave, No worries, nothing you said was taken other than an opinion and I just was stating that the incident did not alter our actions. I had other times like last year in GZ when I was eating alone in McDonalds and a couple came up with the girl refusing to sit at the table next to me. Dan, The thing that had got to Jen was that we stayed there the day before going to Shanghai and was out stay over before moving on. So it was like giving a dog some food, then taking it away saying "bad dog". Yesterday was the opposite experience when I went shopping with Jen and her cousin. I older man saw me in a car with 2 beautiful ladies which got a nod and show of admiration to have 2 ladies with me.

You all make very good points. As I had said, being a white American racism is an issue for "others". In all honesty it leads for a rather sheltered live and if you don't leave the states, the worst I could expect is to be wrongly called racist through missunderstanding. I know in my heart that my feelings and actions were right in that I have no regrets in what I did and felt. Seeing Jen assulted was far too much to take as I'm sure most here would agree if the situation arose with their own SO. Dave, as far as how Jen took it. She was able to laugh about it later that night and was by far more concerned with the bump on my head from hitting the car door and the cold I got thanks to sitting on the plane next to someone hacking and coughing all the way from SFO. Will this affect the rest of our stay? Not a chance. We are now planning to head out for some shopping and as before, we will hold hands and look very much as a couple. All of those around can think and even say what they want. JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY WIFE!

First, I have to say that what I'm about to post by no means has changed my love for China, and Jen would not approve of posting, but I feel it is important enough to start the disscusion for those who will come to China for the first time as well as those who might have had a similar experience. After 3 days in Shanghai, Jen was getting us a room here in Kunshan with her cousin while I waited in the the car with the husband of Jen's cousin. At one point, things seemed to heat up inside so I was asked to stay in the car as he went to see what was the trouble with the ladies inside. When Jen pointed her finger at the "lady" behind the counter, she grabbed Jen and tried pulling my wife over the counter. It wound up with the door "man" jumping in the middle and Jen's cousin and her husband separating them. I burst from the car, hitting my head on the door, and rushed toward the lobby, thankfully, being stopped by the husband before I had a chance to hurt someone and probably would have wound up on the Chinese version of "Cops". For those who don't know me from before Jen's arrival in the US, I am not a violent man having last swung my fists in anger in the 7th grade but I am very passionate about family and about my wife most of all. You can say or do anything to me and I will probably laugh in you face. You lay a hand on Jennifer? IT'S ON!!!!!! As I stood there glaring at this poor excuse for a person holding a job we in America replaced with electronic sensors and motors to open the door, he and the original "lady" kept on verbally pushing Jen with "mei gou" repeated many times. Finally the manager on duty got her out of there as well as trying, unsuccessfully, to get me to stop recording the incident with my camcorder. Finally we left having been offered a better room at the sister hotel on the other side of the city. So, what was the problem? The person behind the desk, who had told Jen by phone that a room was available, changed her mind upon learning that the husband, me, was American and therfore not worth doing business with. Jen, the wonerful and protective person she is, could not stand this and was standing up for me when things got out of hand. I explained to Jen and her cousin afterwards, that such actions would have wound up with the first "lady" hauled off to jail and me having the doorboy and manager's job. Being a white man in America, such things are not known to me. I'm sure Charles as well as a few others truly understand such things as unfortunatly, racism still lives in many parts of the US as well. As for the words, it does not hurt me as I pitty anyone so small minded that they can judge people by race or nationality. Even now, I recognize the tension that can still exist between the US and China as our governments struggle with each other but that is the political side. When it comes to the people, I feel everyone deserves the chance to be discovered for who they are, not what they look like. My anger only comes from someone hurting Jen. In walking the streets here, I am aware of the stares from others, especially when Jen and I are together. I just shrug it off knowing that a lot of the time it is resentment that I am with such a beautiful Chinese woman, pictures Jen had done last month proves this, and some times because of me, but even then, it is near impossible to tell the difference between us Americans and those visiting from Europe. In the end, as I said, I have no hard feelings about China and her people. In time I can even forgive those who laid a hand on Jen. But as it should be, this site mostly highlights all of the good China has to offer but be warned, even the Garden of Eden had it's snakes.

When I first started talking to Jen, I researched this and found out the China's legal age for marriage is 20 for girls and 22 for boys. This would only be a factor if they planned to marry in China. Coming to the US, China will have little to do with any part of the process and other than providing documents, won't have anything to say about granting the visa.

I'ts my understanding that this applies to the age at marriage which for most states is 18 with some as young as 16 with parental approval. If this holds up, by default, she will be of legal age long before a visa would be granted. The safest answr would be to wait a month to remove the doubt otherwise, you might try calling USCIS and asking but that also could be a crap shoot in finding a correct answer.