what's the difference?

[david_dawei]

One thing I noticed while in China was that there did not seem to be much of a concept of platonic male/female relationships over there.  Also, from a linguistic standpoint, the word for "to like" (xi huan) doesnt seem to be applicable to a member of the opposite sex unless it meant there was serious interest as opposed to liking as a friend or person

Could you explain a little more what you mean by "platonic relationship", and any difference to the US?

 

The linguistics is like splitting hairs. Words applying to only certain situations. The most known issue being "No" in english usage is not the same in China.

 

If I ask my SO, "do you like me". She will say "NO. I love you". So there is a distinct compared to love. I cannot imagine an American [woman] speaking like this.

[sylinchinastill]

It depends on how much money the guy has- the guys I dated in college usually paid at the beginning- but once we started going out- we split the bill or took turns paying- because we usually had the same lack of money and worked in the same low-paying jobs. I think this is different for older men.

 

Absolutely there is a difference in platonic relationships in China. Guys and girls don't hang out unless they date- I think that is because in school the guys and the girls are not allowed to date and so they just stay away from each other. I have also noticed that male relationships are quite a bit different in China- because there isn't the same stigma that if two men touch they are gay. Guys in China will sit with their arm around the other and hug a lot more- stuff like that. And girls too- you will see girls who are friends holding hands. I remember I had a lesbian friend from the states in China- and she was really excited that girls could hold hands without it looking strange.

[david_dawei]

It depends on how much money the guy has- the guys I dated in college usually paid at the beginning- but once we started going out- we split the bill or took turns paying- because we usually had the same lack of money and worked in the same low-paying jobs. I think this is different for older men.

 

Absolutely there is a difference in platonic relationships in China. Guys and girls don't hang out unless they date- I think that is because in school the guys and the girls are not allowed to date and so they just stay away from each other. I have also noticed that male relationships are quite a bit different in China- because there isn't the same stigma that if two men touch they are gay. Guys in China will sit with their arm around the other and hug a lot more- stuff like that. And girls too- you will see girls who are friends holding hands. I remember I had a lesbian friend from the states in China- and she was really excited that girls could hold hands without it looking strange.

These are good points and ones I remember vividly. There is much affection shown between friends.

 

Something similar was that I saw, usually girlfriends, wearing the same clothes or the same top. They seem to really like this connection in more ways than PDA (which was the military term for "Public Display of Affection").

 

So when I bought a jacket in China, my SO exclaimed for me to buy one for my friend ! So, I did !

 

A few days later, my SO went out and bought me some underwear... and it came in a pair, which I was told "one is for your friend"... Need I really tell you what color they are !!!

 

And yes, I gave him the jacket and underwear. We wear one of the items at the same time. I do not share enough affection with him to know if the other item is being worn by him or not.

 

Needless to say, I don't recall every seeing this in the US, except for maybe twins.

[maiyademama]

I also don't think that American women are necessarily more career driven.

I tend to disagree.. I think the american women are more career driven... they are having babies later as a result (I think) of wanting to work and develop careers.. then get back to work after the baby.

 

The 'equality' thing was important to many women as well...

 

my 2 cents.

You kidding? Chinese girls are very career driven. When I got pregnant in China and told my Chinese girl friends, they all thought I was too young at 28! They ALL asked me if I thought I would regret having a baby before my career really took off. Many of the women getting abortions in China are young professionals who aren't financially set. When we told my in-laws about the pregnany, the first question they asked was if I wanted it!

[david_dawei]

You kidding? Chinese girls are very career driven. When I got pregnant in China and told my Chinese girl friends, they all thought I was too young at 28! They ALL asked me if I thought I would regret having a baby before my career really took off. Many of the women getting abortions in China are young professionals who aren't financially set. When we told my in-laws about the pregnany, the first question they asked was if I wanted it!

What city was this in?

 

I only go by my experience being in Baoding, a 'small' area of 600,000... The jobs are find anything worth it. My SO has left before to find better work and to just be in a different area.

 

But many of her friends had children (although not her), and one did not work.

[ed and ying]

Welcome jingutierrez

 

Like you , my MM likes the "western style" She think it is more respectful, and considerate.

 

As to difference between American and USA MM - My experience is: cares more about us, more modest, more frugal.

 

Good News - One aspect of the western style she likes is to hold hands and kiss in public

[Dan R]

You kidding? Chinese girls are very career driven. When I got pregnant in China and told my Chinese girl friends, they all thought I was too young at 28! They ALL asked me if I thought I would regret having a baby before my career really took off. Many of the women getting abortions in China are young professionals who aren't financially set. When we told my in-laws about the pregnany, the first question they asked was if I wanted it!

What city was this in?

 

I only go by my experience being in Baoding, a 'small' area of 600,000... The jobs are find anything worth it. My SO has left before to find better work and to just be in a different area.

 

But many of her friends had children (although not her), and one did not work.

David I have also heard the same about having children after the career is established. This has been in the large Northern cities. Husbands I know wonder how do American families deal with the wife working late and not being available for home things because they want to move up in the business. It is a big concern for men I know in China. Also women are getting better jobs like management so the men must deal with their wife making more than he does. All in all I don't think that once you take the diversity in China and the p0rogress in the economy, that there will soon be much difference in life styles between here and China. People talked the same about Japan and Singapore 30 years ago and they have passed the U.S. in these things. Such as diabetes, cancer, heart attack, obesity and stress related illness which they never enjoyed before.

 

After all once KFC and the big Mac are on every corner, all the rest is not far behind. We will over come someday. Deep in my heart I do believe capitalistic greed will be found everywhere mankind is. Even into space we will take it. We will overcome some day. No authoritarian government or traditional society will be left untouched. Obesity, selfishness and disregard for tradition shall prevail!

[maiyademama]

You kidding? Chinese girls are very career driven. When I got pregnant in China and told my Chinese girl friends, they all thought I was too young at 28! They ALL asked me if I thought I would regret having a baby before my career really took off. Many of the women getting abortions in China are young professionals who aren't financially set. When we told my in-laws about the pregnany, the first question they asked was if I wanted it!

What city was this in?

 

I only go by my experience being in Baoding, a 'small' area of 600,000... The jobs are find anything worth it. My SO has left before to find better work and to just be in a different area.

 

But many of her friends had children (although not her), and one did not work.

I lived primarily in two cities in China, Xi'an and Nanjing. Pretty good sized cities...5 million + each. I know some people with little education who just run shops and stuff and they married much earlier and had kids earlier, but almost all of my college educated friends are mainly focused on their careers. This goes back to societal differences within China. Furthermore, Chinese tend to have kids on average later than Americans because the legal age to marry is much older in China and having children out of wedlock is pretty much forbidden in China. Here we a lot of teenage moms and a higher rate of divorce which is linked to several factors, but I think one is that many Americans get married to quick when they are too young and haven't even figured out who they are. I would say that a major difference between US and China is that we are much more whimsical and the Chinese are much more pragmatic. Generally speaking.

[david_dawei]

After all once KFC and the big Mac are on every corner, all the rest is not far behind. We will over come someday. Deep in my heart I do believe capitalistic greed will be found everywhere mankind is. Even into space we will take it. We will overcome some day. No authoritarian government or traditional society will be left untouched. Obesity, selfishness and disregard for tradition shall prevail!

That's what I'm most afraid of... Was it you who posted in that other thread about "social order"... Lift the limitations and soon we'll have lift off of everything known to man.

[david_dawei]

You kidding? Chinese girls are very career driven. When I got pregnant in China and told my Chinese girl friends, they all thought I was too young at 28! They ALL asked me if I thought I would regret having a baby before my career really took off. Many of the women getting abortions in China are young professionals who aren't financially set. When we told my in-laws about the pregnany, the first question they asked was if I wanted it!

What city was this in?

 

I only go by my experience being in Baoding, a 'small' area of 600,000... The jobs are find anything worth it. My SO has left before to find better work and to just be in a different area.

 

But many of her friends had children (although not her), and one did not work.

I lived primarily in two cities in China, Xi'an and Nanjing. Pretty good sized cities...5 million + each. I know some people with little education who just run shops and stuff and they married much earlier and had kids earlier, but almost all of my college educated friends are mainly focused on their careers. This goes back to societal differences within China. Furthermore, Chinese tend to have kids on average later than Americans because the legal age to marry is much older in China and having children out of wedlock is pretty much forbidden in China. Here we a lot of teenage moms and a higher rate of divorce which is linked to several factors, but I think one is that many Americans get married to quick when they are too young and haven't even figured out who they are. I would say that a major difference between US and China is that we are much more whimsical and the Chinese are much more pragmatic. Generally speaking.

yes.. so I think comparing the 600,000 cities I was in is peanuts compared to the more competitive career market you know.

 

right, I'm aware of much of what you said..

 

 

And a big agreement on the whimsical vs pragmatic... I find the chinese so damn practical that one is amazed at this outcome in such a 'forbidden city'..

[Dan R]

Well David everything is interconnected. Change something intentionally and a whole lot of things change unintentionally. Even a small block pulled from a pile will cause it to topple and create a new pile.

 

No one should expect the China they are impressed with to be here tomorrow. Or the U.S. for that matter.

 

I had a fortune ball at a Buddhist temple a few years ago. When I opened it it said "resistance to change is ignorance". The Priest explained that change is inevitable so to resist change is an exercise in futility. To embrace futility is ignorant. Ever since I have tried to be "intelligent" Lots of changes have happened and more are on the way.

 

Society is only a collection of individuals change there is also inevitable. Does it really matter that we like it or not? It still will happen.

 

Enjoy the ride.

[david_dawei]

You are sounding more Zen master each post...

 

That's very interesting story about not resisting change... I have a very close chinese friend in Chengdu. We chat all the time about our cultural differences. But she once said, "The chinese do not like to change".

 

And this is a great difference that is easily seen when compared to the rapidly changing US. Every decade, we seem to transform some part of society... Yet China has changed very slowly.

 

What will be interesting is the mixture of the eastern philosophy which permeates their custom and ways joins force with US ideals of capitalism... not sure what kind of monster we'll see arise.

[Dan R]

You are sounding more Zen master each post...

 

That's very interesting story about not resisting change... I have a very close chinese friend in Chengdu. We chat all the time about our cultural differences.  But she once said, "The chinese do not like to change".

 

And this is a great difference that is easily seen when compared to the rapidly changing US.  Every decade, we seem to transform some part of society... Yet China has changed very slowly.

 

What will be interesting is the mixture of the eastern philosophy which permeates their custom and ways joins force with US ideals of capitalism... not sure what kind of monster we'll see arise.

The communist revolution was an attempt to break with tradition. Certainly China today is very different from what it was in the 20's and 30's. Definitely today it is different from the 50's and 60's.

 

Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong are examples of Chinese capitalism. China has been one of the most aggressively capitalist societies for at least 3000 years so that is nothing new. What is new is the 18th century movement towards rule by the majority coupled with 20th century protection of minority rights.

 

It is interesting that your friend said "do not like change" rather than "wont change". It is human instinct to resist change, we fear the unknown. Where change will go is always unknown. We don't need to like it to be part of it.

[ptcrusier333rph]

almost want to ask what flavor

[david_dawei]

Singapore was a British port at one time, and Hong Kong occupied or owned by the same for a while... So, would you say that Taiwan is really the only one to 'effect change on their own'?

 

My friends 'doesn't like vs wont' could be a communication issue.

 

But "wont" seems to imply you know that change is here and 'wont'... don't necessarily imply the presence of change so much.

 

So your a "won't" advocate?

 

I think the rapid rate of change in the US is not to my liking. We change car models, shoes, good at such a rapid pace because we believe that for marketing reasons, the consumer "wants" this... do they want this as a internal action, or as an action which they have sensed and now copy ?