Todays Culture Lesson

[owenkrout]

Being bull-headed, I will blunder forward with this series. I decided to go with what is hopefully a safer topic this time as well as one more useful to everyone. I’ll work on the education series more in the future.

 

These are in rough form still, but may eventually be polished to become an attempt at a book. Therefore, I am claiming the rights to it. You can quote all you want, just don’t try to beat me to the publisher. The dates here actually establish my claim. I am open to suggestions for topics.

 

Yes, I already know that I am an Engineer and not a Social Scientist and I don’t have the academic credentials for writing something like this, so don’t bother sending me a message to tell me so. As I have stated before, it is only one man’s experiences and impressions. China is a big country and I haven’t been to all of it yet, so some of what I say will not apply to some places, I am sure. I just hope that it generates thought and helps people from two very different cultures understand each other better. I have found that most American’s think they know what it is like in China and they don’t really and that most Chinese think they know what it is like in America and they don’t really. I hope that someone like Enight returns after being in America awhile and shares there impressions. It pleases me when these generate input and different opinions from other members.

 

This is big enough that I am going to break it into several shorter sections. The administrator already knows that I have no problem with his deleting any of these with their threads once the responses have died off. I am aware of the problem of storage space.

 

Traffic in China

 

 

If you are thinking about trying to rent or borrow a car and drive yourself around in China, my advice is forget it. One immediate reason is that China does not recognize the international driver’s license and so you would have to be fluent enough in written Chinese to pass the driving test. That is the more minor reason, however.

 

The major reason for saying this is that traffic in China is chaotic even at it’s best and is downright terrifying at times. This is something that you read in all the travel guides, but until you actually experience it for yourself, you don’t really grasp it. The degree of chaos varies widely according to just where you are and how heavy the traffic actually is. Shanghai or Beijing, for instance tend to be only mildly chaotic. The Lonely Planet travel guide for China specifically mentions the chaos of Guangzhou’s traffic. In my own experience, Guangzhou is tame compared to some places I have been. Anytime you leave your home in Shenyang, you are risking your life. Our daughter lives in Panjin, Dawa and it is truly white-knuckle there. Driving cross-country at night with a driver from Shanghai that was lost in Shandong Province was an experience to never be forgotten. In order to survive this chaos for any period of time, you need to understand some basic principals.

 

Rapid Change

 

One of the major factors in the chaos on China’s roads is that it is only in the last ten years that there has been heavy vehicular traffic in China. Prior to very recently, individuals could only dream of owning a car. Now, in some areas at least, the majority of cars on the road are privately owned. This sudden overwhelming increase in vehicular traffic, coupled with some cultural issues, has been the cause of the current situation.

 

Vital Equipment

 

As near as I have been able to determine, there is only one thing that absolutely must work on any car in China; the horn. Chinese drivers are constantly using the horn and they are a lot more serious about it than drivers in the US are. Some taxi drivers will even have a horn button installed on the gearshift lever. (all cars are manuals and with floor mount shift levers.) The only other critical item is that the engine runs. Everything else is optional, including brakes.

 

To be continued....

[Mick]

Owen:

 

Man, can I relate to what you are saying. You may not be a social scientist but I am. Most Americans don't understand China and most Chinese don't understand America. How true. Having lived over here for almost five years now I still am just scratching the surface of this ancient and mysterious culture. I do, however, love it in many ways. I guess I must or I wouldn't have stayed so long.

 

As to the traffic, I could tell you stories that would make your blood curdle in your veins, but then, being in Liaoning this time of year, it probably already has. During my first year in China I worked in Hefei, Anhui and had the occasion to take a night-time ride to Anqing, about five hours away with a normal driver. It was sleeting at the time (mid-January) and the roads were both bumpy and covered in ice. This made no difference to the driver who, I found out quickly, was the Chinese incarnation of Emerson Fitipaldi. We made the trip in under four hours, sometimes traveling sideways in a controlled slide after hitting a particularly nefarious pothole. Had I been Catholic and had a rosary, it would have been worn bare by the time we reached our destination.

 

Where I live in Shantou, I have yet to be able to discern any consistently obeyed traffic laws. Our campus is located in the countryside, 10 kilometers outside the city. Taxi rides can be hair raising at times. I have learned to take to the back seat unless I feel an overwhelming need for an adrenaline rush, then I sit up front. And yes, horns are mandatory it seems and brakes are optional. I don't think shock absorbers have been introduced yet.

 

In all fairness I must say, however, that my hometown in America is not much safer. I hail from Miami (not Kansas but Florida). There we have to deal with tourists, immigrants from all over the world, and the occasional stray bullet.

 

Look forward to your next installment.

[owenkrout]

Yes, I should have added the part about speed being more important than safety. We have city bus drivers here that drive like they were piloting a sports car.

[tonado]

In Nanning, drivers are not as speedy as in Guangzhou. However, drivers like to cross the center line to pass even though there are cars coming from the other side. Also, drivers like to do U-turns on major streets. I am surprised that there weren't as many head-on accidents.

 

I didn't see any Stop sign in Nanning. Also, there are so many motorcycles and walkers on the streets (and cars too).

[Joseph-1]

On my way back from Yanshou on the sleeping bus I looked out the window and saw an ambulance and two men dressed in white uniform,

who were kneeling beside a man who was stretched out on the road.

He wasnt moving. In another accident I saw two trucks,one was rammed up into the cab of the other. While Ive been home my girl was riding her bike out from our apartment in Yangshou and she was hit by a Motorcycle and knocked down. That one scared me out of my wits. She was banged up pretty badly as she tells it.

[OrionM31]

My views on this subject are parallel to everyone else’s. I thought that Chicago traffic was bad and some of the other Cities, but when I got to GZ... Let's just say it was an eye opening experience. I rarely seen traffic lights, there are mostly stop signs. Of course, in the city there were traffic lights, and for the most part, people will obey them. People will also turn left in the far right lane and so forth. I believe the entire mentality is: "the other guy is watching where I go, I can do what I want." And, odd as it may seem it seems to work. Maybe the Chinese have a group mind when they drive. They can sense when someone will turn. I had only seen two wrecks when I was in GZ, I would have pictured many more.

 

Another annoyance is when you are in the City, you have cabs that park where the busses are needing to go to drop off their passengers. When you go out of the City and into the "burbs" this is where Taxis do not exist. You may see one on a main road, but it is mostly motorcyclists only. And what they do is when they see a bus coming in, they will more or less surround the bus to make sure they are there when the passengers get off. It is almost like watching a big shark swim around and there are the little fish that hang out with the shark to clean it, or eat any leftovers. The shark doesn't bother the little fish since they help the Shark. I doubt that the bus drivers find the motorcyclists as helpful though.

 

I think it would be a great idea to write a book about the differences in culture. I think it would be a very interesting read! It also may help some people know more as to what and what not to do. I know I was worried about if I was going to pass muster with my wife’s family. All the prep I did, I had to throw out the window since it did not apply. I am naturally polite and picked up on “thank you” and “you are welcome” very quickly. Maybe you should do a bit on Manners as well.

 

Phil

[Joseph-1]

My views on this subject are parallel to everyone else’s. I thought that Chicago traffic was bad and some of the other Cities, but when I got to GZ... Let's just say it was an eye opening experience. I rarely seen traffic lights, there are mostly stop signs. Of course, in the city there were traffic lights, and for the most part, people will obey them. People will also turn left in the far right lane and so forth. I believe the entire mentality is: "the other guy is watching where I go, I can do what I want." And, odd as it may seem it seems to work. Maybe the Chinese have a group mind when they drive. They can sense when someone will turn. I had only seen two wrecks when I was in GZ, I would have pictured many more.

 

Another annoyance is when you are in the City, you have cabs that park where the busses are needing to go to drop off their passengers. When you go out of the City and into the "burbs" this is where Taxis do not exist. You may see one on a main road, but it is mostly motorcyclists only. And what they do is when they see a bus coming in, they will more or less surround the bus to make sure they are there when the passengers get off. It is almost like watching a big shark swim around and there are the little fish that hang out with the shark to clean it, or eat any leftovers. The shark doesn't bother the little fish since they help the Shark. I doubt that the bus drivers find the motorcyclists as helpful though.

 

I think it would be a great idea to write a book about the differences in culture. I think it would be a very interesting read! It also may help some people know more as to what and what not to do. I know I was worried about if I was going to pass muster with my wife’s family. All the prep I did, I had to throw out the window since it did not apply. I am naturally polite and picked up on “thank you” and “you are welcome” very quickly. Maybe you should do a bit on Manners as well.

 

Phil

This is an interesting thread. Your words bring back the memories of my time in Guangzhou. The only bad part is that it makes me homesick. Wherever my girl is, my heart is there also. In my home town I dont have the ties that I once had. My parents moved out of the neighborhood. And two days ago my sister died. I am in the process of re-evaluating what is

important to me. The more I think of it the more I realize that Id love to sell

out and go back to China. She wouldnt agree,and so I wait. But I think,if I had the money. Id overrule her and evoke husbands rights and go back.

Lottery,Lottery,

[Myles]

Aloha from Hawaii,

Do not forget gridlock. It is faster to walk in the center of Beijing than to take a taxi during the

rush hour.

The most important part of your book should be eating. The only way to demonstrate your interest

in another culture is to eat what they eat. To eat with chopsticks is more important than to speak

mandarin.

Annakuen'GG

[Joseph-1]

Aloha from Hawaii,

Do not forget gridlock.  It is faster to walk in the center of Beijing than to take a taxi during the

rush hour. 

The most important part of your book should be eating.  The only way to demonstrate your interest

in another culture is to eat what they eat.  To eat with chopsticks is more important than to speak

mandarin.

Annakuen'GG

This is my sentiment also, we are blending two cultures. Its only right that

we pay respect to the culture which has adopted us. When a Chinese family accepts you as one of their own, you are recieving a gift which is very special. It is given with care and should be recieved the same way.

[Charlotte]

Owen,

Taking about the cultural differences, if you need to one tell you how it feels like being on both sides for extended amout of time, I am it! Grew up and lived in Shanghai most of my life and living in TX 9 years and Yankee country for 3 years, I can tell all the differences between all those places. To honest with you, I thank God to bring me TX first, where people are simple, kind and warmhearted, but nothing to see in the surroundings. Yankee country here is just the opposite, nice scenaries, but rushing people all over. First time I drove in those winding local roads at rush hour, people were honking at me because I was driving at the speed limit!!!

I can even tell the difference between my Chinese friends from the two areas. As a Chinese saying goes: water and earth nourish and change people!

I used to give free seminars to Chinese professionals (working in US companies) on communicating in Amercian way, etc -- was a great success! My background: BA degree from China, MA, MBA and CPA in the US, live with a retired professor of foreign languages (speaking at least 7) working as a plant controller in a big manufactuing company. In our 10 years of marriage, I have been to all kinds of formal/input formal parties, ceremonies, all kinds of occasions, observing the similairities and differences. If your book needs any input, I may be able to help. I am just a woman with ability to adjust quickly, and see the +/- in both cultures.

[tonado]

Here is something I found on the web.

--------------------------

While riding a taxi, If you should ever get the notion to open the window and stick your hand out, you will knock over the first bicyclist, where upon hitting the ground will be run over by the second bicyclist.

 

If ever going from point A to point B, it is faster to drive on the wrong side of the street, your taxi drive will.

 

While riding from point A to point B in a taxi, you will spend roughly 20% of the time driving, 15% to beeping the horn, 40% to changing lanes, 15% driving on the sidewalk, & 10% driving in the wrong lane.

 

U-turns, though dangerous are permitted in China; luckily taxi drivers will use extra precautions, like waiting until rush hour traffic, and they will only attempt u-turns in carefully selected places, like busy intersections.

 

A taxi driver will wiz by within 1 foot of a pedestrian, come within 6 inches of a bicyclist, yet swerve violently 2 lanes to miss a pot hole.

 

Taxies have a auto-regulating temperature, whereby if a passenger opens a window to cool off, the driver's hand will slowly move over to turn on the heater; Yet if the passenger turns on the heater, the driver's hand will slowly open his window.

 

Traffic jams are common, but Chinese drivers believe traffic jams can be cured by the sonic harmony of every car's horn.

 

Foreigners need to be careful when speaking their native tongue, for some phrases translate irregularly.

 

For example,

 

1. When speaking to a taxi driver..."Verooom please hurry" translates to ..."Please go through every red light, and get real close to that pedestrian."

 

2. "I speak English" translated by a taxi driver means "Please take the long expensive route" Taxi companies only purchase luxury cars, whereby after the passenger is in, there remains a spacious 1 cubic foot to put his luggage.

 

In any taxi the handle for the Turn signal will be pristine and untouched, yet the horn will be worn down to the nub. Taxi drivers have many options when changing lanes, after they change lanes they can either...

 

A. Look in their rear view to see if they cut anyone off, or

B. Listen for the other driver's horn.

By Robert Brownell

[owenkrout]

Most of you have experienced the calm traffic compared to what it is up here in the Northeast! I haven't tried a really mountainous region yet and I am not looking forward to the opportunity!!

 

Within a foot of the pedestrian? That isn't even close enough for the pedestrian to notice. I have more than once actually had the side mirror brush me as they went by. I will have to say though that my size probably threw off their judgement. They were intending to miss me by a full inch.

 

It just occured to me that you probably pay twice as much for a taxi ride just because of all the constant zig-zagging from lane to lane.

 

But then, were getting into the next section.

 

I have, by the way, seen numerous very serious accidents. An interesting cultural point is that here nobody will help. They will stand and stare, but not offer any help. Any move by me that looks like I might do so actually results in people shooing me off. Head-ons are not uncommon up here. Two drivers playing the chicken routine, probably both passing and neither chickens out.

 

Taxi drivers up here always ask nationality. It is important on determining how far out of the way to drive you. If you say Russian, they go straight to the objective. You don't have any money anyway or you must be a Russian Mafia member and they don't mess with those guys! If you say British, you may never get there. The 19th century British are regularly depicted on TV as the bad guys so they are fair game for some drivers. If you say Canadian, you only go slightly out of your way. They're not really sure what to make of that one. If you say American, you better be ready to argue about the fact that you already passed this place three times. American's are all rich, so they are fair game, they get the tour of the city.

[tonado]

I heard numberous fatal bus accidents on China's highways. The bus drivers go really fast under all kind of conditions.

 

At night, everyone drives with the high beam on going to the Zouhai airport.

[Guest David]

The smoothest ride I ever had in China was with a ~65 year old taxi driver in Shenyang. This guy followed all the rules, signalled when changing lanes, even knew right of way!

 

I talked to the guy and found out that he had been driving for well over 40 years. He told me that he had been layed off of his last job a couple of years before he could receive retirement benefits, and had to work as a cabbie to make ends meet, etc. He also told me that in his day, when he drove the heads of factories around in a state-owned car, he was always asked to drive cautiously. Now, he said, drivers get fired if they don't prove they can be faster than the other people on the roads. Pretty sad change in priorities.

 

 

The problem with traffic in China comes down to one thing: lack of enforcement. The cops only stop cabbies or people in inexpensive cars, because the people in Audis are usually powerful and important, and might cause trouble for the cops if they insist on ticketing them. This of course, has its roots in the ineffectual legal system and lack of rule of law n that country....

 

 

BTW- everyone is always likes to be down on the taxi drivers, and say that they like to cheat foreigners, etc. etc.. For my part, I'd say that %95 of the taxi drivers I dealt with were honest with me. As for most of the ones who weren't, I was able to get them into line without much fuss. As long as you are nice to them, they'll be nice to you. Most of the people who got "cheated" by taxi drivers were suspicious of them before they got in the cab, and were probably a bit rude to them.

 

 

I often found that my most interesting conversations were with taxi drivers, who would often be more willing to talk about things like politics, corruption, the economy, etc. etc.. probably because they had privacy with me in the car, and they knew they wouldn't see me again. I had one old-timer drive me home from work on two separate occaisions... both times he spent most of the trip with me badmouthing his country's leaders and the government in general!

[JoeLiyan]

One thing that I learned very quickly in Nanning is that you do not look at the traffic when you cross the street. If you do not look, the bicycles, motor scooters, taxis, and buses will miss hitting you. If the drivers think that you see them, they will hit you!  

4 things totally blew me away about Chinese traffic. Mostly in Shanghai, but also NanNing and NanJing where I spent a little time.

 

1- The only traffic rules I ever saw that anyone paid any attention to was red lights. For some reason, they tend to stop for them. Anything else goes, though. I've been in a taxi that cut-off a cop with that was running their lights. I'm sure everyone has their own stories about taxi rides.

 

2- Count down signals at many intersections was kinda interesting. Some only flashed before changing but I also saw some that had a digital clock counter. With so many stick shifts it makes a little sense to warn drivers it's time to get into gear. The ones counting down to turning red was a little spookier, though.

 

3- I saw very few accidents and most were scratches and dings. Considering the volume of traffic, it really blew me away. Seems like I could count the number that I've seen on one hand.

 

4- Watching how drivers straddle the white lines and nose each other out, or just cut them off, I often think that a typical reaction in the US would be to pull out a gun. Road rage seems to be unknown in China, at least I never saw any.

 

Can't wait to see if these impression still hold true on my next trip.

 

-Don H

Don,

 

I was waiting for someone to say to mention your point...LOL, you beat me! darnit! Car for car, bus for bus, they have IMMACULATE driving ability through all that chaotic traffic!!

 

I watched one day as Liyan went into the dept. store with her sister, I counted the potentials OVER THERE, vs. the guarantees over here! (Philly area, PA in this case) Unbelievable how they get around the circles!! Holy sh**** There's no WAY(!) I could pull that off, even in LA! (saw that, and NYCity traffic, which is really the worst it gets in the states, I feel).

 

How about this though: I'm in transportation for years now. Have my CDL, so I know load limits, tire limits, all that yada, yada. How many of those trac-trailers over there did you see LOADED, (and I mean loaded) with WHATEVER, to the Gills!!????

 

I saw ONE, yes, one...turn over on a dirt road up near Rizhao - that's a guarantee they'd lose there load on OUR paved and (albeit) very curved sharp roads around philly.

 

The whole topic of traffic over there amazes me - Good topic Owen! Here's your NEXT topic: building construction - major city or not, if union guys over here saw those buildings going up, (the green tarps all over?) holy....well, you take it from there dude!