Coronavirus/COVID in the U. S. & Elsewhere

[Greg.D.]

I wonder to what extent BP medications such as ACE inhibitors like Lisinopril (Zestoretic) might have on the virus. I knew it has a diuretic mix and is the first line of defense on hypertension. Might it help or inhibit the virus? What other hypertension drugs out there that could affect the virus positively or negatively.

Been wondering this, too, since I take lisinopril and also wondered if it could help or hurt (since it inhibits - through binding - the ACE) . Hope it doesn't become an issue

 

Inquiring minds want to know:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_cant_ACE_inhibitors_work_as_coronavirus_blockers

[Greg.D.]

[

 

We've got about 12 months of "staples" stocked up - things like toilet paper, soap, shampoo etc. We're going to go through it anyways so it doesn't really hurt to keep some extra. It would suck to have to take a special trip just to buy something like tampons if this situation escalates. We also have 1-2 months of emergency food and water in our basement (nuts, pureed fruits, rice, beans, peanut butter, etc.)

 

And my wife insisted that we stock up on wine (for her) and beer (for me) in case we're holed up for weeks. Can't say I pushed back very hard on that one.

 

We acquired a ton of hand sanitizer (hint: try Dollar Tree) and have 7 boxes of cheerios. If we had that chest freezer we mean to get someday it would be full. I wonder why she hasn't gone ga ga for toilet paper yet? We have a Business Costco near us which is usually packed with Chinese anyway and they haven't been able to empty any shelves there yet.

 

Because we just got Costco size bottles of their Kirkland gin and their made in France Kirkland vodka, we're probably okay in that department. We've only got 15 cases (of the virus!) in Denver so we'll just watch the news. Cash-flow is usually our top priority but we can bend.

[Martin B]

 

[

 

We've got about 12 months of "staples" stocked up - things like toilet paper, soap, shampoo etc. We're going to go through it anyways so it doesn't really hurt to keep some extra. It would suck to have to take a special trip just to buy something like tampons if this situation escalates. We also have 1-2 months of emergency food and water in our basement (nuts, pureed fruits, rice, beans, peanut butter, etc.)

 

And my wife insisted that we stock up on wine (for her) and beer (for me) in case we're holed up for weeks. Can't say I pushed back very hard on that one.

We acquired a ton of hand sanitizer (hint: try Dollar Tree) and have 7 boxes of cheerios. If we had that chest freezer we mean to get someday it would be full. I wonder why she hasn't gone ga ga for toilet paper yet? We have a Business Costco near us which is usually packed with Chinese anyway and they haven't been able to empty any shelves there yet.

 

Because we just got Costco size bottles of their Kirkland gin and their made in France Kirkland vodka, we're probably okay in that department. We've only got 15 cases (of the virus!) in Denver so we'll just watch the news. Cash-flow is usually our top priority but we can bend.

 

 

I work next to the only Costco Business center in our state and love it. I can walk over during lunch and there's usually a grand total of 3-4 shoppers in there (although lately it has been more like 15). Most of the business they do is apparently via delivery. Only thing they are out of is toilet paper and hand sanitizer. Cases of bottle water are Limit 2. I can usually get 80% of what I need there despite it being a business center. Our "normal" Costco was always somewhat of a s**tshow, it's now unbearable so we go on a weeknight.

 

We acquired a crap ton of hand santizer and masks a few weeks ago at my wife's insistence when the first few cases hit in Washington state. We just had the third or fourth case crop up in our state today - a 30 year old with no known health issues in critical condition!! That set my wife off in regards to my business trip later this month, which needless to say is no longer happening...

[Randy W]

Harvard gives students 5 days to leave mid-term

from the SCMP

 

Coronavirus: outrage as Harvard gives students five days to leave campus

• Some undergraduates unable to return home at short notice, while others have limited internet access off campus and cannot attend courses online

• Thousands of students left scrambling as Stanford, Columbia, Princeton and other US universities cancel in-person classes

 

[Allon]

 

I wonder to what extent BP medications such as ACE inhibitors like Lisinopril (Zestoretic) might have on the virus. I knew it has a diuretic mix and is the first line of defense on hypertension. Might it help or inhibit the virus? What other hypertension drugs out there that could affect the virus positively or negatively.

Been wondering this, too, since I take lisinopril and also wondered if it could help or hurt (since it inhibits - through binding - the ACE) . Hope it doesn't become an issue

 

Inquiring minds want to know:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_cant_ACE_inhibitors_work_as_coronavirus_blockers

 

 

Good link. And nice to know others are thinking about ACE inhibitors as well. Lisinopril is an ACE1 and COVID is ACE2, mentioned by one commenter. So he seemed to think no effect. But 2 others bother me, probably because of acronyms and language.

 

3rd Mar, 2020

Philippe P Seur

Heartt 2000

this subject is of important clinical relevance as if more suspicion towards aggravation under ACEI or ARBs, then recommendation could be made to switch temporarily from those classes of HBP Rx to another class as CCB / ... during evolution of COVID or even for prevention

3rd Mar, 2020

Newton Verbisck

Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation (EMBRAPA)

It is reported that other co-factors such as cathepsin L and TMPRSS2 have an important role in that process. If the aim is to supress (sic) viral infection blocking entry driven by coronavirus S protein it seems more reasonable to target the virus, not its receptor, and think about decoy receptor or neutralizing antibodies as vaccine candidates.

Have a look to discussion in

Article Structural basis for the recognition of the SARS-CoV-2 by fu...

 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_cant_ACE_inhibitors_work_as_coronavirus_blockers

 

 

The link referred to by Verbisck requires membership. Philip Seur's comment is interesting. He seems to want to suggest that anyone using ACE1 (presumably Lisinopril) convert to a calcium channel blocker (CCB). CCB's did little to get my BP down. Of course, I was taking it at a time when I going through some bad bouts of PTSD. Now my BP is almost too low and the doc has suggested me slowly going off Lisinopril and I have managed to get to a lower dose. The next step is off completely, which for me is a major accomplishment.

 

With this controversy, not knowing if Lisinopril is a good or bad thing with COVID, I am hesitant to go all the way.

 

Very interesting....I am going to try and get that article.

[Greg.D.]

I have read a little more. People have been looking at this for years. Our lisinopril is in serum, not extracellular like the virus. We would have to inhale it.

 

The comment that it would make make more sense to target the virus receptor protein doesn't stand up: between the three main SARS viruses (including MERS), the differences are on the surface of the virus particle. It can easily change, but the ACE receptor does not change. This would also suggest the the freezer vaccine may not be cross-reactive.

 

Go to medrxiv.org and click on infectious diseases and you will have more articles to read than you can handle. Including the contributing factors, returning symptoms, etc

Edited March 11, 2020 by Greg.D. (see edit history)

[Allon]

I will do that. Thanks, Greg.

[amberjack1234]

I am going to check it out too Greg. Interesting.

[Greg.D.]

In this Chinese paper:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.04.20031120v2.full.pdf+html

 

They show that people who died from covid-19 also had their kidneys destroyed (apparently, this virus can infect your lungs and your kidneys; once there, it is cytopathic - destroying the tissue)

 

I don't think you are hearing this yet in the U. S.

 

It mentions several kidney treatments while trying to pull somebody back from Covid -19 and one is to use a diuretic. That is my other high blood pressure med (other than lisinopril).

 

If I was diabetic, had high blood pressure and over 60, I would load meds and supplies and drive to a remote cabin (if I had one) and wait it out.

[Bert]

My wife has officially gone off the deep end. She's hysterical. When she's in that state, she is capable of anything. I literally have to watch my back.

 

It started weeks ago after she went to the Chinese store to pick up stuff. Shortly after arriving home, she declared that the had the coronavirus and started wearing a mask. I laughed. I make the mistake of reminding her that she went there the week before. She got sicker. She asked me what the symptoms were. I told her a fever and respiratory problems. A couple of hours later she had trouble breathing. She woke up the next morning and discovered she wasn't dead yet and maybe she didn't have the virus.

 

I've been prepping since this thing first broke in China. I told my wife then that it would come here and there was no way to stop it. The US would be the opposite of China and that it would react better on the front end and worst on the back end. Everyone has their rights. There's no way to implement a mass quarantine in the US. Business comes first. I acquired a couple of jugs of hand sanitizer and lots of hand soap. I'm still trying to convince my wife that soap is better, but she still wants more sanitizer. You just can't buy it anymore and it is unnecessary. My wife picked up 4 boxes of respirator masks. We've been stocking up on food. I wish that I had been more aggressive with that, but we are ok. I did order toilet paper, but it was because we were out. It never occurred to me that there would be a run on toilet paper. We have a couple of full-face masks coming as well as goggles. I am thinking about ordering a UVC sterilizer so we can reuse the masks, if necessary. There's something better out there call Far-UVC. It is safer and more effective. It can destroy viruses in seconds. They have a lot of great products lined up, but I want the wand for now. I don't know how much it will cost. The company just says it is very expensive because they are hand made. Won't be available until May.

 

My son came home with something this past weekend. He sticks with me like white on rice. I have it now. My wife is telling our son that I have the coronavirus and to stay away from me. I tell him that I got sick from him and there is no worry ad that it is not the coronavirus. My son tells her not to worry about him because he gave the coronavirus to me. I'm sure he will tell the school that he gave the coronavirus to me. It caused a big argument this morning. My wife announced that our son would no longer be attending school starting next week. I agree with her that the schools should be shut down, but, until they are, he must go to school. I try to convince her that he is not at risk and she has already had it (not really).

 

My wife is a hypochondriac. So is her mother. I think that I told the story here where my son bit his grandmother on the neck. She went to the doctor many times insisting that he do something. He treated her for rabies. Hopefully, it was a placebo. My wife is the same. My wife currently has a bandage on her right hand and left elbow and she is walking on crutches. Her hand injury came from turning the steering wheel too fast. The elbow, from exercising. The crutches are for her ankles. No doctor has ever found anything wrong with her ankles. Oh, and she has TMJ from laughing too hard. Every woman from the region that I know is like that. Why am I telling you this? Her mom is spinning her up on this virus thing. She, in turn, accuses me of not taking this seriously and not being well-informed. She wishes me to die and tells my son I will die of the virus. Her mom wants her our son out of school now. She told me and I told her it wasn't going to happen. Her mother took it on herself to harass me on WeChat until I complied. I ignored her notifications. I can hear the two talking now about what an evil bastard I am. She got so hysterical this morning that I had to yell at her. Before I met my wife, I had only raised my voice a handful of times, and only once in anger. My wife can push my buttons with her hysteria. I have to listen carefully for the knife drawer opening for a while. Up until recently, my wife blocked her mother on WeChat, which meant she couldn't see her grandson. It took me a couple of months to get them back together. Now, I wish I hadn't. Now I have to deal with two hysterical women. I told the MIL to stay out of it this morning.

 

That's my rant for today.

[Martin B]

Next week we are spending the entire week at home just to see how this plays out. These rapid changes are worrying my wife - but she's been fairly level-headed about the whole thing.

 

Our company, a small 9 person software shop, has moved to a virtual setup (we already had a liberal work from home policy) and stepdaughter has spring break. We actually wanted my stepdaughter to stay home today, as the day before break is usually a fun "easy" day and there's no reason to risk something when you're not going to learn anything, but the 11-year old put up a hell of a fight with her mom, prevailed, and is now at school.

 

We've got a freezer full of hot pot meat, a pantry stacked to the max with beer (for me) and wine (for the Mrs.), and we've finished all our errands.

[Greg.D.]

We spread out and did two Costco trips yesterday. Waiting for the signal to begin remote work. Toddler’s preschool hasn’t closed but most of the public schools have closed. Might be a game of chicken with the pre-school - over whether or not we keep paying them while they are eventually closed.

 

Several white-hot discussions the last few mornings about the party’s “YOU’RE WELCOME” propaganda offensive they’re spreading in and outside of China. Despite giving us SARS1 and now outdoing themselves with SARS2 they are going around the world saying oh, we can help, because that’s just the kind of people we are. Indeed, the people have suffered and the medical profession there are the true hero’s and have been amazing. But, to keep trying to glorify the party is not only galling but the people themselves are ignored once again.

 

Yes, I was actually told this morning that the world should be thankful that Chinese doctors figured out the 14 day thing.

[Greg.D.]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/13/coronavirus-numbers-we-really-should-be-worried-about/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_virus-math-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-main_virus-math-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 

 

This is the coronavirus math that has experts so worried: Running out of ventilators, hospital beds

For weeks now, America’s leaders and its public have been obsessed with one set of numbers: How many people have died? How many confirmed cases? And in what states?

 

But to understand why experts are so alarmed and what may be coming next, the public needs to start paying attention to a whole other set of numbers: How many ventilators do we have in this country? How many hospital beds? How many doctors and nurses? And most importantly, how many sick people can they all treat at the same time?

Consider the ventilators

For those severely ill with a respiratory disease such as covid-19, ventilators are a matter of life or death because they allow patients to breathe when they cannot on their own.

In a report last month, the Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins estimated America has a total of 160,000 ventilators available for patient care (with at least an additional 8,900 in the national stockpile).

A planning study run by the federal government in 2005 estimated that if America were struck with a moderate pandemic like the 1957 influenza, the country would need more than 64,000 ventilators. If we were struck with a severe pandemic like the 1918 Spanish flu, we would need more than 740,000 ventilators — many times more than are available.

 

The math on hospital beds isn’t any better

 

The United States has roughly 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people. South Korea, which has seen success mitigating its large outbreak, has more than 12 hospital beds per 1,000 people. China, where hospitals in Hubei were quickly overrun, has 4.3 beds per 1,000 people. Italy, a developed country with a reasonably decent health system, has seen its hospitals overwhelmed and has 3.2 beds per 1,000 people.

The United States has an estimated 924,100 hospital beds, according to a 2018 American Hospital Association survey, but many are already occupied by patients at any one time. And the United States has 46,800 to 64,000 medical intensive-care unit (ICU) beds, according to the AHA. (There are an additional 51,000 ICU beds specialized for cardiology, pediatrics, neonatal, burn patients and others.)

A moderate pandemic would mean 1 million people needing hospitalization and 200,000 needing intensive care, according to a Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security report last month. A severe pandemic would mean 9.6 million hospitalizations and 2.9 million people needing intensive care.

Etcetera

[Bert]

My wife says one of us will be dead come Monday morning. She says our son is not going to school. I told her he will. Since I am nonviolent, I guess it will be me.

[Martin B]

I will tell you, if there is any silver lining in all of this, it's that this coronavirus has forced my wife to become a total dictator when it comes to hygiene. She was, ummm, a bit 'careless' before.

 

Mandatory hand sanitizer when entering the car, mandatory hand washing in the bathroom near closest to our garage when entering the house. Two showers a day. All door knobs and other surfaces wiped down daily. All clothes washed in hot water (water heater is now turned up to 140F). My stepdaughter needs to change clothes after school before coming upstairs (our garage is attached to the basement). All windows open 15 minutes every few hours to allow for circulation (despite it being 30F here today). I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone.

 

It's pretty f*****g irritating when my wife (who used to be lax about hygiene) now starts hassling me about hand washing after I've taken a leak