The Biggest Problem Facing the US

[amberjack1234]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

[tsap seui]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

Edited April 1, 2010 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[amberjack1234]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

I hear that bubba and agree with it to an extend but do you really think that studying 10-14 a day is good for a young kid? I know. I know that is the way it is in China in order to get ahead.

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it takes a lot of them so long to mature as all and I mean all of their time is devoted to studying.

 

I have a little nephew that is in the same boat. I actually feel sorry for him. Never having any time to play. I guess he has less than 4-6 hours of play time a week. Can we actually say that this is a good thing?

 

Larry

[shenzhen]

"....Yes, I already knew that.... that was part of my point; number of hours/weeks/years does not always mean better. I was partly facetious. I agree, it is an issue of rote vs critical thinking. ..."

 

 

Liberals raised without rote ALWAYS think they have critical thinking on their side.

 

..that is, they are superior BECAUSE they haven't been subjected to rote learning. (clearly, they don't speak, or write Chinese). they DO have high self esteem, and strong feelings on any of a number of subjects---here in Portland, particularly----Free Tibet ~ !

 

One aspect (IMHO) of Western education (professionally, and culturally) is a fundamental refusal to be measured against your peers in a body of knowledge, skill, or an physical (athletic) ability.

 

----don't compete--- its so crass....... (so proud of #1 daughter----today, she made varsity on her HS track team-----as a freshmen)

 

neither system is perfect, but on balance, my view is that China's K-12 system is much better than the US. --- the missing element is to mix critical thinking (what I call: "The World View" with my daughters---- putting together various snippets of knowledge from every discipline they have already learned-------and extrapolate... ).

 

Just curious what about the China K-12 system is much better in your opinion. In my opinion one thing they really lack is a history Not only world/western history but even their own prior to 1949).

I'm not sure why they would think they need western history. And Have you talked to kids in school to show that they have no knowledge of history prior to 1949? that's not my experience. But they need to focus their study on what the tests want of them.

Leaning from past mistakes and knowing the culture of others is always a good thing. Yes I have talked to them and the ones that do know a lot about China's history learned most of it outside of their school or university. They have knowledge of China's history before 1949 just very little compared to post-1949 history.

 

Yes USA students do not know much of their history either but they get much more history taught in school programs than what I've seen in China.

 

Maybe because I have a minor in history it is more important to me ...

[shenzhen]

"unreasonable returns to shareholders"

 

Which companies would those be? I'd like to buy some of their stock.

See the part in () and refer to period before Oct 2008. See preferred stock. See "backroom deals". Business today is short-term focused to maximize bonus and shareholder return/stock value.

Why play coy? If you know of any stocks that pay "unreasonable returns to shareholders", just post their names. Seems like a pretty straight forward request.

 

BTW-google only returned three hits for "unreasonable returns to shareholders".

I am referring to the expectation of double digit returns that cause business to make decisions for short-term gains that results in erosion of long-term performance (laying out people/reducing repair and mainteance costs/eliminating preventative mainteance/etc). I just have the opinion that the current global business model does not serve the general population of the USA very well.

 

This is more of what I was referring to:

 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title..._Responsibility

 

"The market can deliver both short-term financial returns and long-term social benefits." According to Doane, not only are the interests of profit-seeking corporations and broader society often at odds, but socially reponsible investments by corporations "are particularly unlikely to pay off in the two- to four-year time horizon that public companies, through demands of the stock market, often seem to require."

 

"In the global economy, countries will compete to have the best ethical practices." Although companies often claim that their presence in "developing" countries will improve health, environmental and labor conditions, Doane counters, "companies often fail to uphold voluntary standards of behavior in developing countries, arguing instead that they operate within the law of the countries in which they are working. In fact, competitive pressure for foreign investment among developing countries has actually led to governments limiting their insistence on stringent compliance with human rights or environmental standards, in order to attract investment."

Edited April 1, 2010 by shenzhen (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

I hear that bubba and agree with it to an extend but do you really think that studying 10-14 a day is good for a young kid? I know. I know that is the way it is in China in order to get ahead.

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it takes a lot of them so long to mature as all and I mean all of their time is devoted to studying.

 

I have a little nephew that is in the same boat. I actually feel sorry for him. Never having any time to play. I guess he has less than 4-6 hours of play time a week. Can we actually say that this is a good thing?

 

Larry

 

Larry, I think it is an absolutely HORRIBLE thing...and so does his mom. I got tears in my eyes looking at where tufts of his thick hair have fallen out from the stress. His mom is sick over it, but what is her option when so many kids are seeking so few slots in university each year? If you ain't amongst the best and brightest you're gonna wind up making cheap consumer goods for Americans.

 

As well as the fact of getting my wife and he over here with me, I pray that this application will work so this kid gets to actually have a youth.

 

I was honored on the last night that I was to see him, he did his studying and then asked his mom if he could sit on the sofa with us for a few minutes so he could be around and talk to me...he gave up a half hour of his much needed sleep time to sit with me...it broke my heart to leave them this time...when he would ring the security buzzer downstairs I used to run down the steps singing something stupid as I went down to greet him on the steps like he was royalty and take his heavy assed book bag.

 

tsap feui

[knloregon]

"...Just curious what about the China K-12 system is much better in your opinion. In my opinion one thing they really lack is a history Not only world/western history but even their own prior to 1949)...."

 

Alan,

 

I guess every school teaches different things, as in the US ---- but my SO not only learned, but also taught in China, many of the traditional poems (again recited by rote) that dated back centuries.

 

But also western history --- including US history----and the significance of Jefferson, Washington and particularly---Lincoln ---not only for freeing the slaves, (serf emancipation) but also preserving the Union. ---which going forward with the internal challenges of Tibet, for instance, becomes important lessons.

 

My #1 daughter, as an exchange student last year, unfortunately, couldn't help her host family daughter with every question asked of her about US history.

[shenzhen]

"...Just curious what about the China K-12 system is much better in your opinion. In my opinion one thing they really lack is a history Not only world/western history but even their own prior to 1949)...."

 

Alan,

 

I guess every school teaches different things, as in the US ---- but my SO not only learned, but also taught in China, many of the traditional poems (again recited by rote) that dated back centuries.

 

But also western history --- including US history----and the significance of Jefferson, Washington and particularly---Lincoln ---not only for freeing the slaves, (serf emancipation) but also preserving the Union. ---which going forward with the internal challenges of Tibet, for instance, becomes important lessons.

 

My #1 daughter, as an exchange student last year, unfortunately, couldn't help her host family daughter with every question asked of her about US history.

Interesting because I have not met anyone in China with this type of knowledge. I was surprised at how many only knew about Japan's involvement in WWII and did not understand/know the relationship between Jews/concentration camps/Germans. But each school and area is different I am sure. Thanks -- I am learning everyday.

 

The poems I have heard discussed also but the history of the kingdoms, empires, etc. it seemed to me they did not learn much about but then again we have ~300 years to cover (and dont learn much of it) and they have 5000 years to cover.

[weiaijiayou]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

I hear that bubba and agree with it to an extend but do you really think that studying 10-14 a day is good for a young kid? I know. I know that is the way it is in China in order to get ahead.

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it takes a lot of them so long to mature as all and I mean all of their time is devoted to studying.

 

I have a little nephew that is in the same boat. I actually feel sorry for him. Never having any time to play. I guess he has less than 4-6 hours of play time a week. Can we actually say that this is a good thing?

 

Larry

Very good point... In my opinion those two things are definitely connected. It's interesting to me how these things all seem to fit together. This system, the years of preparation and nightmarish work, is in some ways needed just because of the shear amount of material that Chinese people need to share (e.g., the tens of thousands of characters). The fact that the work is all directed toward the gaokao is then itself a kind of socialization -- it keeps kids focused, conscientious, and also very, very innocent. I totally understand your point, though, as my wife sometimes talks about how in her middle school she would work all day but still secretly sneak into the bathroom at night to study as this was the only place that was lit...

 

Tsap, by the time the visa goes through, at least your boy will have a fantastic work ethic that will pay off as he finishes high school and goes to college in the US...

[Randy W]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

I hear that bubba and agree with it to an extend but do you really think that studying 10-14 a day is good for a young kid? I know. I know that is the way it is in China in order to get ahead.

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it takes a lot of them so long to mature as all and I mean all of their time is devoted to studying.

 

I have a little nephew that is in the same boat. I actually feel sorry for him. Never having any time to play. I guess he has less than 4-6 hours of play time a week. Can we actually say that this is a good thing?

 

Larry

Very good point... In my opinion those two things are definitely connected. It's interesting to me how these things all seem to fit together. This system, the years of preparation and nightmarish work, is in some ways needed just because of the shear amount of material that Chinese people need to share (e.g., the tens of thousands of characters). The fact that the work is all directed toward the gaokao is then itself a kind of socialization -- it keeps kids focused, conscientious, and also very, very innocent. I totally understand your point, though, as my wife sometimes talks about how in her middle school she would work all day but still secretly sneak into the bathroom at night to study as this was the only place that was lit...

 

Tsap, by the time the visa goes through, at least your boy will have a fantastic work ethic that will pay off as he finishes high school and goes to college in the US...

 

 

My understanding of this is that around 2000 characters represents a newspaper-level vocabulary, and 20,000 or so is pretty much an unabridged dictionary.

 

The Chinese character system is a lot closer to ours in terms of literacy and effort to learn (and even keyboard usage) than we realize. That is, Chinese students can pretty much keep pace with their American counterparts, including in typing.

[Smitty]

Why do I see American kids in the city I live in getting off the school bus with little or NO books?

I can't say for every school, and I'm sure you never saw me with my backpack full of books, but when I went down to my home town for my high school reunion, the vice principal(who was a counselor/swim coach back in my time) told us that every class now has the books under the desk, and that the students take copies of the books home at the beginning of the year and turn them in at the end. They wanted to try to do away with book bags/backpacks, so now the students just carry their notebooks from class to class.

[tsap seui]

 

Tsap, by the time the visa goes through, at least your boy will have a fantastic work ethic that will pay off as he finishes high school and goes to college in the US...

 

Ya know buddy, after seeing how and what he does for his studies and homework I sat him down and told him that very thing, and about how extremely proud I was of him for his work ethic.

 

I'd never seen such a work ethic in a kid. He is gonna go so far with his life. The best thing I ever taught my daughter and I harped and harped on her about it, was work ethic. I couldn't teach her academics or even help her much with her homework but I had learned about work ethic and tried my best to pass it on to her.

 

This kid lives breathes and eats work ethic...it was tough for me to see such a good thing pushed to the point that a kid is losing tufts of hair at 13-14 years of age. Lord help him if we get denied again later this year or early next year and he REALLY gets the late late nights and overload of pressure.

 

So far, 3 kids in his middle school have committed suicide, this year, from the pressure there, but hell, if he doesn't excel at this advanced middle school and then advanced high school, then he has no chance of into a better university. His mother is afraid for him and it's ripping her guts out to see he has no childhood...playtime? While school is in he may get a couple of hours a month shooting hoops or playing on the computer...if he's lucky.

 

tsap seui

[tsap seui]

Why do I see American kids in the city I live in getting off the school bus with little or NO books?

I can't say for every school, and I'm sure you never saw me with my backpack full of books, but when I went down to my home town for my high school reunion, the vice principal(who was a counselor/swim coach back in my time) told us that every class now has the books under the desk, and that the students take copies of the books home at the beginning of the year and turn them in at the end. They wanted to try to do away with book bags/backpacks, so now the students just carry their notebooks from class to class.

 

That's a great idea. Bubba Jr. doesn't even have a locker at school. Oh well, maybe they call it... exercise.

 

tsap seui

[david_dawei]

Yep Chinese children don't have much of a childhood.

 

Larry

 

Not if they are going to attempt to get into a top. or even bottom, university in China...lil' Bubba Jr. can count his childhood in minutes, not years.

 

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....well, on second thought maybe I should take that back, he's too ingrained in actually working in school.

 

 

tsap seui

I hear that bubba and agree with it to an extend but do you really think that studying 10-14 a day is good for a young kid? I know. I know that is the way it is in China in order to get ahead.

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it takes a lot of them so long to mature as all and I mean all of their time is devoted to studying.

 

I have a little nephew that is in the same boat. I actually feel sorry for him. Never having any time to play. I guess he has less than 4-6 hours of play time a week. Can we actually say that this is a good thing?

 

Larry

Very good point... In my opinion those two things are definitely connected. It's interesting to me how these things all seem to fit together. This system, the years of preparation and nightmarish work, is in some ways needed just because of the shear amount of material that Chinese people need to share (e.g., the tens of thousands of characters). The fact that the work is all directed toward the gaokao is then itself a kind of socialization -- it keeps kids focused, conscientious, and also very, very innocent.

I agree that it's this 'system' or way of life which will include some pampering (particularly of boys). And innocence or naive is probably the word I would use instead of mature but I think we all have the same general idea. If you looked at certain social norms or 'street-wise' sense, they get that as part of the system too. But when parents know that education or marriage gets their child ahead... education is tackled first. I have know a few teens who also played a part in the understanding of paying for their education; and they had the job to do the payments (I mean the money was given to them); so they also get an early course in money management; If one doesn't make it to the university, you better be street-wise.

[slw268]

He'll think he died and went to heaven if he and his mom are allowed to come to America....

tsap seui

 

FAIR WARNING! THIS POST CONTAINS GENERALIZATIONS!

 

Trouble is the kids come to the US and suck up all the bad behavior and lose a lot of the filial discipline they had in China.

 

At least this is what happened in our case.

I'm 19 now and I can do whatever I want!!!!!