The Biggest Problem Facing the US

[Minister]

I have no argument with you Minister, except most westerns want to believe they are apart of a "middle class" above workers, but mini capitalists, unfortunatly these are the people that live on credit and/or have suffured the most as western capatilism crumbles.

 

I agree with you 100%. In the grand scheme of things, there is no real "middle class". If almost any one of us were to lose our job, how long before we were destitute or even homeless? A year?

 

The true middle class, which was, in the past, at least partially independent, is gone. Now, there are just wage slaves. Some make more than others. But no one makes enough. We are allowed certain luxuries in order to make us think that we're excelling. But we never really do.

 

Entrepreneurship is the last hope to be truly "middle class", I think.

[david_dawei]

what we dont need is your class system

 

The system in any country is the same. There are only two classes; The owners and the "wage-slaves". China has finally learned the Western concept of "Bread and Circuses" to control the mob, but the mob is still the mob and the rulers are still the rulers. People can be oppressed just as easily with mortgages as with tanks. When the glitter fades, you'll understand. And those Burberry slacks will become your prison clothes.

you think they learned that concept from the west? I'm thinking they invented it quite a long time prior to the Romans. A country doesn't stick to it's agrarian roots for no reason...

[Argyle]

Wow,

 

There certainly is an awful lot of negativity going on here.

 

I'm just a working stiff, but I certainly don't feel like a wage slave. I feel blessed, and very fortunate to live in this great country.

 

I know our country isn't perfect, but I've spent a lot of time in other countries, and there's no other place I'd rather call home.

 

Best Wishes

[warpedbored]

Wow,

 

There certainly is an awful lot of negativity going on here.

 

I'm just a working stiff, but I certainly don't feel like a wage slave. I feel blessed, and very fortunate to live in this great country.

 

I know our country isn't perfect, but I've spent a lot of time in other countries, and there's no other place I'd rather call home.

 

Best Wishes

Well said.

[knloregon]

"....Yes, I already knew that.... that was part of my point; number of hours/weeks/years does not always mean better. I was partly facetious. I agree, it is an issue of rote vs critical thinking. ..."

 

 

Liberals raised without rote ALWAYS think they have critical thinking on their side.

 

..that is, they are superior BECAUSE they haven't been subjected to rote learning. (clearly, they don't speak, or write Chinese). they DO have high self esteem, and strong feelings on any of a number of subjects---here in Portland, particularly----Free Tibet ~ !

 

One aspect (IMHO) of Western education (professionally, and culturally) is a fundamental refusal to be measured against your peers in a body of knowledge, skill, or an physical (athletic) ability.

 

----don't compete--- its so crass....... (so proud of #1 daughter----today, she made varsity on her HS track team-----as a freshmen)

 

neither system is perfect, but on balance, my view is that China's K-12 system is much better than the US. --- the missing element is to mix critical thinking (what I call: "The World View" with my daughters---- putting together various snippets of knowledge from every discipline they have already learned-------and extrapolate... ).

[shenzhen]

Wow,

 

There certainly is an awful lot of negativity going on here.

 

I'm just a working stiff, but I certainly don't feel like a wage slave. I feel blessed, and very fortunate to live in this great country.

 

I know our country isn't perfect, but I've spent a lot of time in other countries, and there's no other place I'd rather call home.

 

Best Wishes

Well said.

To me, looking at the OP topic/comments, the issue is not one country's system better than other, etc. but the effect that globalization has on worldwide incomes. The business goes where the cost is cheapest rather than paying decent wages. A highly skilled engineering being paid ~5,000 RMB/month is not a decent or fair wage even for lone living and working in China. A taxi driver in Qingdao can make 3000-5000 RMB/month depending on the hours he drives. Yet it is this "wage standard" that is causing business to come to China according to the business leaders.

 

Corporations are trying to get something for nothing and the while doing this they are causing "brain drain" and outsourcing from the USA which will cause a problem in the near-future. After a company pays its bills, covers its cost of capital, and provides a reasonable return to its shareholders what does it need with more money -- expect to pay huge bonuses to people who may (or most likely not) bring exceptional value to the company and provide unreasonable returns to shareholders (i.e. the demand for double digit growth and return every year).

[shenzhen]

"unreasonable returns to shareholders"

 

Which companies would those be? I'd like to buy some of their stock.

See the part in () and refer to period before Oct 2008. See preferred stock. See "backroom deals". Business today is short-term focused to maximize bonus and shareholder return/stock value.

Edited March 31, 2010 by shenzhen (see edit history)

[shenzhen]

"....Yes, I already knew that.... that was part of my point; number of hours/weeks/years does not always mean better. I was partly facetious. I agree, it is an issue of rote vs critical thinking. ..."

 

 

Liberals raised without rote ALWAYS think they have critical thinking on their side.

 

..that is, they are superior BECAUSE they haven't been subjected to rote learning. (clearly, they don't speak, or write Chinese). they DO have high self esteem, and strong feelings on any of a number of subjects---here in Portland, particularly----Free Tibet ~ !

 

One aspect (IMHO) of Western education (professionally, and culturally) is a fundamental refusal to be measured against your peers in a body of knowledge, skill, or an physical (athletic) ability.

 

----don't compete--- its so crass....... (so proud of #1 daughter----today, she made varsity on her HS track team-----as a freshmen)

 

neither system is perfect, but on balance, my view is that China's K-12 system is much better than the US. --- the missing element is to mix critical thinking (what I call: "The World View" with my daughters---- putting together various snippets of knowledge from every discipline they have already learned-------and extrapolate... ).

 

Just curious what about the China K-12 system is much better in your opinion. In my opinion one thing they really lack is a history Not only world/western history but even their own prior to 1949).

[Guest Pommey]

The biggest problem China faces is the west recognises their massive population,econony and potential and even now after after hundreds of years of , still is tying to force them into "our way" aint going to happen, live with guys the worlds changing, the rear guard action being fought by western financial institutions and polititicians reminds me of despirate men in despirate times attempting to protect their crumbling castles.

Chinas greatest strenght is they do it their way (always have) I can see Chinese language and culture being a major at most western universities very soon.

[Argyle]

"unreasonable returns to shareholders"

 

Which companies would those be? I'd like to buy some of their stock.

See the part in () and refer to period before Oct 2008. See preferred stock. See "backroom deals". Business today is short-term focused to maximize bonus and shareholder return/stock value.

Why play coy? If you know of any stocks that pay "unreasonable returns to shareholders", just post their names. Seems like a pretty straight forward request.

 

BTW-google only returned three hits for "unreasonable returns to shareholders".

 

Hi Don,

 

Every one of my stocks has paid an unreasonable return for at least the past three years...

 

Unfortunately, they've all been preceded by a negative sign!

 

That's the only kind of return that I find unreasonable

 

Best Wishes

[Robert S.]

If you did not go to the right private high school, the right college, belong to the right fraternity or sorority, belong to the right country club, and your parents have the right connections it does not matter how smart you are unless you are truly a genius.

[david_dawei]

"....Yes, I already knew that.... that was part of my point; number of hours/weeks/years does not always mean better. I was partly facetious. I agree, it is an issue of rote vs critical thinking. ..."

 

 

Liberals raised without rote ALWAYS think they have critical thinking on their side.

 

..that is, they are superior BECAUSE they haven't been subjected to rote learning. (clearly, they don't speak, or write Chinese). they DO have high self esteem, and strong feelings on any of a number of subjects---here in Portland, particularly----Free Tibet ~ !

 

One aspect (IMHO) of Western education (professionally, and culturally) is a fundamental refusal to be measured against your peers in a body of knowledge, skill, or an physical (athletic) ability.

 

----don't compete--- its so crass....... (so proud of #1 daughter----today, she made varsity on her HS track team-----as a freshmen)

 

neither system is perfect, but on balance, my view is that China's K-12 system is much better than the US. --- the missing element is to mix critical thinking (what I call: "The World View" with my daughters---- putting together various snippets of knowledge from every discipline they have already learned-------and extrapolate... ).

 

Just curious what about the China K-12 system is much better in your opinion. In my opinion one thing they really lack is a history Not only world/western history but even their own prior to 1949).

I'm not sure why they would think they need western history. And Have you talked to kids in school to show that they have no knowledge of history prior to 1949? that's not my experience. But they need to focus their study on what the tests want of them.

[Guest Pommey]

I wonder how many American high school grads even know of their history, let alone world history.300 years of insular history aint hard 5000 years takes abit more study.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Pommey (see edit history)

[Argyle]

I wonder how many American high school grads even know of their history, let alone world history.300 years of insular history aint hard 5000 years takes abit more study.

 

It looks like U.S. students aren't doing too well in history.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1..._knowledge.html

 

The Center for Survey Research and Analysis at the University of Connecticut found that many college seniors lack basic knowledge in subjects related to American history or the economy.

 

According to the survey, professors believe 81 percent of college seniors are at a D or F grade level when it comes to American history. In addition, the survey found that many college seniors had a difficult time identifying words from the Gettysburg Address or identifying main concepts from the Constitution.

 

Best Wishes

[tsap seui]

I can only speak of what I have seen and see of our, now, 8th grade son in China.

 

In 2007 when he was on summer break between his fifth and sixth grade, we were in Guangzhou for our first interview, I looked at his math homework for the summer break. I was amazed to see the kid had started taking algebra 1 in the latter part of his 5th grade. He was in a private school for his primary years that had cost his grandparents 18,000rmb. Now he is in the top ranked middle school for his city...many kids couldn't even get into the school he is in now and because of his private schooling it was like he was recruited to go to there.

 

He leaves for school just after 6am and gets home between 6:30pm and 7pm, depending on how much after 6pm his teacher keeps the kids.

 

We had a talk about his possibly going to America and the first thing he asked me was if American schools had physics as that was now one of his favorite subjects, and that the also liked chemistry. Eight grade physics and chemistry....Hmmm...we didn't get to talk very long as his daily schedule only gives him about a half hour from the time he gets home to eat and visit his mom and then he studies until 10:00 or 10:30pm and then goes to sleep. No TV in the evening for this kid, or play of any type.

 

His mom tells me that this August when he goes into the 9th grade that he will be in school until 7pm or later and then will study until 11pm when he gets home. In 10th grade he will be in school until 8pm and will study until midnight each day.

 

If I didn't see and live it with him for a month I wouldn't believe it. On Saturdays he sees a tutor for 2 or 3 hours, Sundays he goes to one of his teachers home to study for another 2 to 3 hours...it cost 500rmb a month for his weekend studies.

 

My 23 year old daughter was always an honors student in K-12...let me tell you, she was NEVER under the pressure this kid is. Hell, when he was in the 6th grade his teacher called his mom and asked if she had been keeping track of his grades...they were always 100-98 with an occassional 94 or 92...the teacher said "THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH, HE MUST DO BETTER", and told lil' rabbit she had better get on the ball with him!!!

 

When I was there I saw the small bald spots in the back of his thick hair and I saw he grades on his daily exams...100's and 98's. Apparently anything under an occassional 98 is failing...in his world.

 

History? I'll ask the lil' rabbit how many pounds of that 25-30 pound back pack of books he drags around is about history.

 

Why do I see American kids in the city I live in getting off the school bus with little or NO books?

 

tsap seui