Will China be doomed by corruption?

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

http://santiago.indymedia.org/news/2008/04/79348.php

[Guest Mike and Lily]

http://santiago.indymedia.org/news/2008/04/79348.php

 

This is one area that could impede China's path to prosperity. China has made progress in this area, but there is still a long way to go.

[tsap seui]

How long as it taken for corruption to hurt america? If we are the example of a modern economy, I'd say China has many years of success before the ol' "graft, greed, and corruption" we've experienced in our military and politics do them in.

 

Shucks, if we don't cut down all the rain forests to print more money, the Chinese will be okay...they can just follow our example...stick yer head in the sand, print more money, and find their own "China" to buy their debt. No worries at all.

 

tsap seui

[Robert S.]

It is not "unlimited bureaucratic power" which is the base cause for corruption, it is rather that that is the way things have always been done in Asia.

[Sebastian]

Personally, I think it already is.

PBS aired this thing from National Geographic on my local station last night - http://www.pbs.org/illicit/

 

I watched it and kept nodding my head YES! I've seen that !

 

It validated my opinions that I've garnered since 2000 about this type of activity, formed from direct experience in GUZ and Rome.

 

It was an interesting twist to see Naples as the European port of entry though.

 

I'm all for the protection of Intellectual Property, but it sickens me to watch everything else erode because of Walmart's inclinitation to kick out the middle man, and go directly into China for sourcing. Knowingly or unknowingly, over the past 10 years, they've helped Chinese people and Chinese companies learn MORE about 'how to make illegal goods' than any other company.

 

There were many topics of trade goods covered in this program, if you get a chance to watch it, watch it. One bullet point - 25 percent of all income producing activity IN CHINA is tied to the manufacture of illegal copies, whether it be DVDs, CDs, clothing, purses, handbags, car parts, radios, electronics. So imagine what will happen if SUDDENLY China's internal economy is destabilized as that 25 percent of income is REMOVED from a total crackdown on illegal manufacture.

 

Grrr.

 

When I was coming back from GUZ in January, I watched a troupe of Nigerians with their HUGE BAGS filled with 'trade goods', they were getting their bags strapped for flight. I was certain they were moving illegal trade goods, if not as samples, then as one 'shipment' - seemed to be about 1500 pounds between 8 people.

 

Grrr.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Darnell (see edit history)

[jim_julian]

How long as it taken for corruption to hurt america? If we are the example of a modern economy, I'd say China has many years of success before the ol' "graft, greed, and corruption" we've experienced in our military and politics do them in.

 

"Greed graft and corruption" I'll grant that we see it all to often in politics but in the military it's my experience that it is very rare ... certainly rarer than American society in general.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

How long as it taken for corruption to hurt america? If we are the example of a modern economy, I'd say China has many years of success before the ol' "graft, greed, and corruption" we've experienced in our military and politics do them in.

 

"Greed graft and corruption" I'll grant that we see it all to often in politics but in the military it's my experience that it is very rare ... certainly rarer than American society in general.

 

 

I guess that depends on how you define corruption. Many US military contractors employ retired military personnel to do business with the government. It's almost a de facto pension plan for military procurement officers. Certainly the "contractors" in Iraq have relationships with government and/or military personnel that are dubious. Just see how whistleblowers in the Iraq war are crucified by our government. There is no such thing as free speech in these matters.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/25/...in3203792.shtml

Edited April 27, 2008 by Mike and Lily (see edit history)

[jim_julian]

The article you site refers to military contractors. The one reference that could be interpreted as having a direct connection to the military was a reference to the US Army Corps of Engineers practices in contract awards ... I would think that most people do not think of the US Army Corps of Engineers as mainstream uniformed military.

 

The post I questioned said in part:

 

the ol' "graft, greed, and corruption" we've experienced in our military

 

The complete context can be seen above. In my opinion graft, greed, and corruption within the US military, which I interpreted as the uniformed military, is rare. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Smitty]

That would be an important distinction then. I was about to mention the abuse of the prime vendor program that the military uses, but that wouldn't apply to the soldiers of the armed forces.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Smitty (see edit history)

[tonado]

Corruption is everywhere in the world.

[Shenzhen K-1]

That would be an important distinction then. I was about to mention the abuse of the prime vendor program that the military uses, but that wouldn't apply to the soldiers of the armed forces.

 

Many of the vendors, inside the real military very little. Just have to suck it up now and then, just ask tsap seui!!

[Robert S.]

Corruption is everywhere in the world.

No one would say there is somewhere that you could not find any corruption, but the question is how prevalent it is. Whether it is 100% true or not, most Americans believe that you cannot accomplish anything in Asia without greasing some palms. Perhaps in the academic community in China there is righteousness. But when corrupt local officials steal land from the people who need it for farming it makes me want to kill those bastards.

[tsap seui]

How long as it taken for corruption to hurt america? If we are the example of a modern economy, I'd say China has many years of success before the ol' "graft, greed, and corruption" we've experienced in our military and politics do them in. B)

 

"Greed graft and corruption" I'll grant that we see it all to often in politics but in the military it's my experience that it is very rare ... certainly rarer than American society in general.

 

Oh my Gawd Jim, you ever think of being a politician?

With all the respect due you B) With a statement like this....

 

Greed graft and corruption "I'll grant that we see it all to often in politics but in the military it's my experience that it is very rare"

 

One can only assume...

Oh heck, I won't post what I assume

 

I first got the term "waste, greed, crime, and corruption" from a 2 star Marine Corps General who was a F-18 jock and lived in the Marine Barracks down by the Naval Yard in SE Washington. He was a customer of mine and lived 3 houses away from the Marine Corp Commandant.

 

I can only surmise that Marines don't have their heads in the clouds, don't turn a blind eye to their surroundings, and Marines have a bit more of this thing called... veracity than lower ranking officers in other branches of the services.

 

Jim, a whole generation of young men had their lives turned upside down in the '60's by the lies of senior officers in Vietnam that were lying to the Washington suits.

 

Ever read "A Bright Shining Lie" by Stanley Karnow? Colonel John Paul Vann tried to tell the truth about Vietnam...but the "senior" officers who hid out in Saigon didn't want the "suits" to hear the truth and mess up their quick and easy career advancements.

 

I can't believe I read such a statement....well, then again...... B) words like that and buck passin' like that is exactly why america is where it is today.

 

Gawd Bless america and give me another pile of scrambled eggs on the bill of my ball cap please.

 

tsap seui

Edited April 28, 2008 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[griz326]

I saw plenty of uniformed corruption while working for the US government, but my view was limited to a very small outfit. As a journalist, I saw corruption in every government office that I covered; there were no exceptions.

 

There are different types of corruption suited to play well within each system. Any attempt to brand one nation's system more corrupt than another is pure foolishness.

[georgeandli]

I'm torn on the issue. Sometimes I think it's better to slip a few bucks to the cops to make a traffic ticket go away [to much time spent in Chitown in my younger days] or get documents fast in China. What's the difference between that and someone in government that doesn't read supporting documents and kicks it back for 'review'? Neither is doing the job they are paid to do. One gets the money upfront and the other gets the money at retirement.