robhon

You called me a "People's Republic of Berkeley Liberal" to which I took great offense and wrote up a scathing response. But I didn't post it because I didn't think it would be a positive contribution to the list. Honestly, no one here faults you for any of the opinions you've stated, even if they don't agree with them. As far as I've seen your opinions just seem to often come across as an attack against the individual who stated their own opinion. It's very Chinese to learn to give a person "face" while you're arguing an opposing idea. Not always an easy task.

I'm sure there's a way to obtain some kind of documentation that will suffice to prove she was born. Hey, you can buy most anything in China! (and I would love to hear what other people here have done in this situation.) My larger concern is that maybe what is slowing our case down at the DOS with our security check is this lack of documentation. But no one there will tell you anything about what's happening, being that would be a "breach of security." I would do triple back-flips through a dozen hoops to find documentation if that's what the problem was. But I have no way to know. I've come to the conclusion that we are all living inside Joseph Heller's brain (re, Catch 22).

My wife tells me that she has no birth certificate, that none was created when she was born in 1972. This concerns me greatly but I have no idea if it should. Anyone know how critical this might be? She does have a Chinese ID card, so we know she exists. We were trying to translate her words and the only thing we came up with was "immaculate conception." Do you think the DOS will buy this? (joking... but serious about the lack of a birth certificate.)

I'd like to say, I stopped posting here this week because of the personal tone of several of the posts in this and other threads. These are great topics to discuss. There are people here who have strong opinions and are willing to express them. That's what this country is all about. BUT, I would like to request that people refrain from personal accusations in the process of stating your opinions. It degrades the discussion and undermines your own position. I greatly appreciate all of you who managed to state your opinions and not get defensive or personal about it. My opinion still stands that the Patriot Act is a constitutional crisis in the making. I think it's only starting to percolate to the surface. When all this started (Iraq) my ex-wife's father, who is currently an active diplomat and a very conservative man, said, and I quote, "Don't fool yourself that this is about security, this whole thing is about oil and power." At the time this Berkeley liberal (me) said, "Oh, give me a break!" Now, more than ever, I think he was right. Back to the original topic, I don't feel safer specifically because of most of the Bush administration actions since 9-11. I believe our country is more isolated than ever from the world community. On the other side, I believe we have likely transformed hoards of those who merely disliked us before into new bands of confirmed terrorists. Ultimately, in my opinion, there are no winners as we trudge so agressively down this path.

These political issues are very much part of this forum. These ARE the issues we are all facing having fallen love and/or having married a foreigner. When I read just this morning that it took 21 months for one member of Candle to get his wife here, I'm utterly appalled. TWENTY-ONE months!! This is a direct result of misguided actions being taken that limit our own freedoms as a knee-jerk reaction to 9-11. When I think about the filthy hospitals I've seen so far in China and realize that this is where my first child is going to be born, due to the fact that our case is trapped in this invisible and interminable "security check", I am livid. I don't believe I misunderstand the Patriot Act one bit. I might just as easy suggest that you can't see the forest for the trees. Our constitution guarantees us a government of checks and balances, it provides us with a voice and recourse for grievances. The Patriot Act is in direct contridition to this, all in the name of "security." I don't believe the rhetoric about it is at all misguided. There is a constitutional crisis happening that has only begun to be discussed. I know this is a volatile issue which can easily degrade into a lot of noise on a forum like this but, you know, I'm soooo tired of being quiet about it. This country is headed in a very dangerous direction and it scares the living hell out of me. These ARE the core issues that are seriously and directly impacting the lives of every person reading this forum. They should be discussed in excruciating detail.

Specifically, I do not feel safer because I think this is the sort of attitude that propagates our negative image in the world. It's an isolationist act. I don't believe it does anything at all to address the underlying problems we face in the world. I don't believe it truly addresses real threats to our security. Every day I listen to the news I fear for all of our safety and security specifically because of the actions being taken by the current administration. The Patriot Act is probably the single most damaging document ever written to undermine the freedoms we have enjoyed in this country. "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo's words were never more true than today.

No.

Jimb, Oh my god! That's such a horrible story! My heart goes out to you and your fiancee. I have to say though, I have heard quite a number of stories of Chinese women loaning Chinese men money for various things and end up getting swindled. There are definitely some nasty bits baked into what is otherwise a very beautiful culture.

Ah! These are the sweet and wonderful stories that make cross cultural relationships so incredible. For the things we lose in being with someone from our own culture I believe we often get back ten fold. ...When we are patient and loving.

I just returned from Chongqing yesterday after visiting my wife and her family for three weeks. My wife has entered her 8th month of pregnancy. She's absolutely smitten with the little bundle that's growing in her belly. She seems very happy and comfortable, and her family (large family) is taking very good care of her. But, dispite all my wrangling and pleading, our case is still trapped at the NVC. It looks like we're going to be having a baby in China now. I'm not too excited about this idea because I've been to several hospitals there and I am not impressed at all. But I tell myself, "They have lot's of babies in China. It's going to be okay." Does anyone know anyone who has been through this before? I'd love to find a kindred soul in this matter.

Yeah, I would add one caveat to all that I said before. If doing this kind of stuff is your cup of tea, go for it. Many people do their own 1040 long forms and are fine. Over the years I've very much come to appreciate "the professionals." I'm sure many people get through the process fine with out the aid of an atty. For myself, I find it a matter of risk management. (It's the private pilot in me.) The consequences of accidently getting something wrong, which we all admit is possible, is too great. I'd just, far in a way, rather miss my money than miss my family. Bear in mind that my situation also involves a wee one on the way...

I'm going to have to differ on the atty issue here. I would just say that, K-1 or K-3, it's a fairly complex set of forms to file but not much more than filing your 1040 and supporting docs for your taxes each year. Sure, there are services who will do it for a few hundred dollars or you can do it yourself. Problem is, the consequenses of screwing it up are much more dramatic on a personal level. One of my employees went the way of a cheap service, they filed the papers incorrectly and had to restart the entire process after a year of waiting. It was more than two years before she got to be with her husband. What scares me is, that cheap service is filled with people who file these things all the time, and they screwed up. Sure, an expensive lawyer could screw up as well. I think it's logical to assume, I'm probably the most likely person to screw up, having the very least amount of experience in the process. A cheap service is probably less likely to screw it up than me. A good immigration atty is probably least likely to screw it up. There is likely an inverse relationship to how loud people scream when things do get screwed up. The more cash you laid down, the louder you scream. If you screw it up yourself, you just silently kick yourself in your lonely little room. I, personally, have an accountant do my taxes every year. Why would I have a professional take care of my money but not my family? My wife and baby are more important to me than all the money I have in the world, and then some. Paying some extra green backs as insurance that we can be together quickly (as possible) is a small price. I've been in China (Chongqing) for the past three weeks, incommunicado. Nice to be back! Hi everyone!!

I know a lot of people in the Chinese community here in the San Francisco area. This story (7 year wait) is not uncommon at all! It's tremendously sad. It's really rough for many of them. One of my Chinese employees, shortly after giving birth to her first child, sent her baby back to China to live with her grandmother because she and her husband could not afford to take care of him here. She brings in pictures of her kid to work often but now hasn't held her child in more than a year, and probaby won't see him for another two years. Yeah, in a great many ways, the plight of modern Chinese in America is not vastly changed from that of the railroad days of the late 1800's.

The irony of this is that, those who would limit immigration are the same who would argue for the merits of market forces. If anything is a limit on market forces immigration is exactly that. A couple of years ago they killed rent control here in Berkeley. The whole time I was saying, "Yes, I know it's going to cause rents to sky rocket and make housing unaffordable for some people." What I also knew was the controlled rates were not a healthy thing for the local economy and, thus, long term was also bad for everyone in the community. Rates did sky rocket but now they're settling back down. I think the U.S., with our current isolationist tendancies, we're doing exactly the same thing. We are restricting the marketplace. Eventually there will be a breaking point if this nation continues on this path. We may be maintaining our American lifestyle in the short term but long term it will damage our economy. If this nation, and more importantly this administration, truly believes in the long term health of this country AND the long term health of our relationships with other nations, they (we) would stop our isolationist ways and embrace a more healthy form of immigration. Two cents of the morning.

Yeah, I totally love the Statue of Liberty too. When I read those words they go straight to my heart! I believe in those ideals so much. It's just so dis-heartening going through this whole humiiating immigration process feeling that, as a nation, as our system is structured, we really don't hold those words as true.

Yeah, I think they considered my situation, with my wife being pregnant, to be a "special circumstance." Therefore they took on my case and did far less than I'd already done. I think it's fairly similar to striking out in Tee ball!

She needs to be helped into a set of crates until we can live up to her ideals again.

Oh! I definitely think those are the most important items of all. There's a lot you can fake but hanging out with the family would be a difficult one to stage. And also, WAY TO GO SARAH AND DAVE!!

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses who yearn to be free? No, actually, you will need to fill out the following forms: I-129, I-130, blah, blah... You must prove adequate income so as to not become a ward of the state. You must wait indeterminable lengths of time with no insight into the decision process that determines your fate. You must be subjected to fantastically rude officials who may deny your case for no other reason that they don't feel good that day.... and so on. My point? Do you know how other movements seem to find a simple, often clever way of simply illustrating the nature of their cause. Like, "Right to Life Campaign" or "MADD - Mother's Against Drunk Drivers." It's a very effective tool for furthering a cause. This idea struck me this morning: The sentiment represented by the Statue of Liberty has been completely thrown out the window by our nation. We are all good examples of this. So, why not create a group who's purpose is the dismantling of the Statue of Liberty. It is false of us, as a nation, to hold up this icon of freedom when our systems are built to prevent the very notions it espouses. The idea would not be to really dismantle the statue but to dismantle the system that subverts it's ideals. I don't know... Maybe it's just my dumb thought of the morning. But I just figured I'd throw it out here and see what reaction it got.

I found my Congressperson's office pretty lame. The aide that was assigned to my case could barely keep the facts of my case straight. Literally, after speaking with him three times he couldn't remember that Youyue and I were married. He'd say things like, "Your case can be expedited by filing for a K visa." That we were a K-3 was something I had made clear from the beginning. Jeez! In the end, after finally calling his boss saying I felt he wasn't competent, he made one phone call to the NVC only to tell me what I already knew, "Your case is pending in security check." We've contacted other Congressional offices but they all defer to the office for the constituent. Other people here might have had better luck. My experience was dismal.

I would suggest to find someone at National Public Radio in Washington. It's a place we might actually get both a sympathetic ear and a place were some Washington insiders are more likely to get wind of it (i.e., someone who might actually be able to get something done). Issue season is getting ready to open with the start of the 2004 presidential campaign. If we can get our plight plugged into that machine somehow, then something might really happen.

Lemme see.... I voted for... Carter... Then Mondale.... Then Clinton, twice... ummm, then Gore... Yeah. I don't think that argument will work for me.

Mick, next time you MUST record this stuff! Radio Shack has cheap little devices you hook up to your phone. Some years later, when this whole nightmare is long past, you can pull out the recordings and you will hoot with laughter at the sheer absurdity of it all. It'll be great stuff to play at parties, etc. You will be famous in your circle if friends. "Hey, have you heard those recordings Mick has of talking to the immigration people? They're just nuts!!"

Also be aware that, if you go into China via HK, can get one there within 24 hours. I did this once and, if I remember correctly, it was maybe about $75. Once I even got my visa at the border at LoWu train station (at Shenzhen) but had to sit there in the station waiting for 3 hours.