david_dawei

Q1. Did you sign some paper saying the wife was marrying you so that she could bring her 25 year old daughter in tow, without question? If not... maybe remind her that you file for her; not the extend family. At 25, she should be on her own to live out her own life... Unless the mom really has a bigger US plan than she filled you in on. Then you may have bigger problems than just an daughter immigration issue. Q2. What are her priorities here; Marriage or extracting her family to the US... this goes back to Q1. Was that on the paper you sign with her... This is laughable, typical, and predictable... but it is the chinese game being played on the USC... suddenly everybody should be able to come in tow... Q3. Where are you in FL... maybe we should get together... my wife will likely tell her (in a chinese sort of way) that she is the stupid one to enter a marriage with so many latent strings attached. Her life and her daughter's life (based on her age and ability to immigrate) are separate lives... a reality check is missing here in exchange for some obsession.

Except the mom was handed the bill

Yes, getting a tourist visa is close to impossible... you just took too steps closer to that by getting married.

Why come back to the US? Your savings and money are a non-issue for the application.... and you have no job plans. You want to ask the government to issue a visa to her based on no money and no job? In general, I agree that you should marry in china but not sure why you didn't think of that or already do that since your living together. While being together, living together, and being married carry a lot of weight, her english is relevant to proof of the relationship. What you have to prove in the end is your relationship is without any seeking of immigration benefits (getting to the US). Can you share your ages, her hometown city, why you are living together instead of her living with her mom (if not older)... So far, your issues related do not fair well... Let's see if we can understand more about your situation.

Your 'ideal' living situations is not a part of the green card. A greencard is issued to people who plan to live in the US... you are not planning on doing that. So you are intentionally trying to play the system. People who bounce in and out of the US on a greencard are flagged and pulled into rooms and questioned as to what they are doing.... and told, at some point, turn in your greencard on the next trip... Your on this crash course. You need to really ask yourself: What are you trying to do and does it match with USCIS/DOS issuances of a greencard. What you stated above DOES NOT. She needs to plan to be in the US at least 6-8 months in the US each year... anything less, then just stay in china and not risk putting her on some blacklist in the future.

"THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR MANKIND," He may of personalized the experience too much in his head... as an "A" doesn't seem to really alter the final meaning... One vs ALL... in his head, he was the "One"

They refused to answer for another country citizen

ok.. what I mean to say is... that is what he meant to say... Of course what the media has taken hold of is more important than what he feels he meant to say.

Ok, so I know that my wife and her daughter can go on a cruise as green card holders... but her mom is here on a visitor visa. It seems that she would need to apply for a visa at the Bahama consulate in the US; Miami is closest to us. While this seems straightforward enough, and I will listen to any advice on that piece... the twist is this: If we actually did this and she goes on the trip... is she officially leaving the US and re-entering when we would come back? The reason I ask is that she has a visitor visa with multiple entries and I am wondering if the cruise would [beneficially] cause her stay to reset to Day 0...

Neil Armstrong stood by his claim that he was misquoted over the years... and that what he said was: One small step for A man...

Your leaving out a lot of information along this question trail.... how long will you be in Beijing? Your DS-3032 should have the address and email of any correspondence. If you are doing the electronic filing then your email will get all messages but the address is where you'll get paper reciepts.

While you are free to file for a tourist visa, stay focused to your visa filing and forget any tourist ideas... It is very unlikely to get a tourist visa based on your filing for a visa. Stay focused on your visa path and don't add any unnecessary emotion to the entire process.

As I recall that term "Foreign devils" was first coined by the US State Department immigration and non-immigration visa officers, both in Guangzhou, China as well as the other US consulates in China. Only fitting that the Chinese should use that term now. Turn about is fair play, and as momma always said, "Buck Wheat, you best be careful as that finger you are pointing at others has 3 more pointing right back at yourself." tsap seui Actually it is a Chinese term that goes way back to the days of the opium wars or even before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo Gui Lao is simply a more modern phrase which reflects thousands of years of contempt for 'outsiders'. As far as their history goes back in oral tradition, there are 'Gui Fan' (devil or ghost regions) which are contrasted with the Central plains (Zhong Yuan > Zhong Hua > Zhong Guo = China). It all started as tribal contempt in the fabled Xia Dynasty: Hui (our prosperous land) and Yi (barbarians dressed in wraps instead of sewn clothes). Enough history lessons... Back to Doug's topic.

Your ability to communicate is sometimes paramount to approval... this is highly subjective to the VO she may face; but the logical fact of needing to be able to communicate with your spouse is beyond questioning, to a VO. If your not able to communicate, they may not understand how the marriage or relationship is valid. That is probably a fair perspective from their approval seat. My wife and I communicate without problem but she was grilled for 40 minutes by the 'Arabian VO'... who is known for her denial cases. There may be some correlation between how well your wife can communicate and understand your life and then communicate that to a VO, with certainty. My wife only said she wanted a VO to ask 100 questions since she had 100 answers.

Yes... old habits die hard... this is probably 'lower' than divorced with children...

Yes, I've seen many a taxi driver cringe at the sight of a coin and just refuse them.

OK, Interesting query if I understand it. I think they are raising their standards for complex but understandable reasons: 1. China was originally a matriarchal society and despite that it shifted to male-control for thousands of years, I think a very close look at the culture shows that women never really lost the controlling aspect. They only lost the label but not the control, at the family level. 2. Betterment is a driving aspect of the culture. Chinese women, are in my opinion, better at pursuing this than the men. 3. The influence of the western way is not well understood in china but it is viewed nonetheless... and then applied in disarray at times... but they explore new meaning to life beyond the chinese way without disavowing it. Having said this, and to get back to your point: "that no man actually wants them, right?" I agree. It is not that men don't want them... they are not the 'ladder climbers' as are the women. Mao said that women hold up half the sky, but he neglected to add that they hold up the heavier half... If the women (the sheng nu) have a higher standard for self-achievement then the men are required to be even higher than them... the problem this creates is that a higher man would be seeking a lower lady (at least lower in his eyes). In the earlier years, both sides may be thinking they can use their 'higher standard' to their own choice but there comes a time (as Garden of Joy exploits) when they realize the standard has a kind of limitation; in the end, they will both accept something lower, but in fact it is only the chinese lady who accepts something lower than her original expectation. That is why it weighs much more on their psyche.

From a statistical point of view, yes. From a 'higher standard' point of view, statistics help but if the men are still generally 'low', it doesn't help. They want to be choosy because it is a part of the 'betterment' attitude; they want to be married prior to 27 because it is a part of the cultural and historical pressure cooker; Those recalcitrant enough are simply playing a fools game on some level. The problem begins with an over-acceptance of external influences to admonish one towards deciding your destiny and fate. While I understand the group/family/herd mentality and it has great insulating protectionist results... it strips one of the essential commodity of 'self'. I write that in some reservation as I do feel the concept of 'self' is corrupted and a main source of all cultural problems, but it expresses my point if I just say it that way.

I would do away with the penny and nickel.... about 20 years ago. The US lacks innovative and practical thinking when it comes to issues like this. Canada also stopped doing K1 visas... I have noticed some stores won't take a penny... just round it down to stop the nonsense.

Well, this is a deep psychological issue with pressures from history, parents, friends, and even workers. Once you start 'raising the bar' your standards get above others and you find your alone where you stand... And while your point #1 may be valid, I would argue the opposite: The more desperate the more they will be willing to 'lower their standard'... the clock does not stop ticking in their brain and it only gets louder for most. But the desperation is not just on the women, otherwise The Garden of Joy would not success; it needs men who are equally desperate. And for some who don't display this tendency, they might also be simply not willing to play the game; they got off the hamster wheel long ago and simply let others spin their own wheel of games and desperation. I think their are fewer of these than the desperate. This is a very interesting topic and issue in china but it simply reminds me of cultural and historical games that can literally drive their people desperate and crazy.

This is worth a read, from VisaPro: "It is highly recommended that you look at all the pros and cons of getting married in the US while on a tourist visa before doing so. It is also suggested that you consider all your options, including a fiancee or spouse visa, to avoid any complexities in future." Re: http://www.visapro.com/Immigration-Articles/?a=1252&z=36

It will only take one VO to feel something sneaky is going on... and hope they don't get that VO. By using a visitor visa to marry in the US, they are using a NIV to potentially gain access to 'immigrant benefits'. The difference in marrying in the US and in China is that the former puts them directly on a path to that; they can attempt to just not leave the US... The latter is only a potential step in that direction as they would ultimately still need to have a visa to enter the US. In the former case, they already got the visa to effect the marry and potential benefits. My point is: An NIV is NOT supposed to be used for that... Again, just takes one VO from the toughest consulate in the world to consider this simple line of thinking... There may be an industry for this kind of thing... but we're talking specifics: VOs at GUZ...

I hope we're clear now - NO IT ISN'T FRAUD If they openly admit there intention is to use a visitor visa for the purpose of marrying.. then they have come clean... And the problem will be whether a VO will believe that, given the admission, she will truly go back to china... If they choose to not disclose that but later are found to have done that and then asked at a IV interview in GUZ... I am not sure the VO will hold the same opinion. I think it is best the OP understands all sides of the issue. And I hear you too Tsap... good points... time to kill... why not just try it... I don't want to talk the OP out of it; just that he understands the issues and then he won't come back after a visitor visa interview and complain how lousy our government is, etc... Give the wheel a spin but accept the outcome.

My rhetorical comment was meant to imply: Why attempt all the uncertain, stressful hoops of trying to get a visitor visa for the single reason of marriage: Just marry in china... it is that simple a path. The stress to lead your lady to belief you *might* or *could* get a visitor visa and then prepare, try, and ... well... who knows... and then what to do if you don't get it? Explain the BS involved? Do they really care about that??? (more rhetorical questions; no answers expected). The problem with the vispro comment is that it is up to the VO you meet that day when you try to explain your sole purpose of wanting the visitor visa is to marry in the US ... and you promise your first-born she will return to China... Good Luck with that. Dan now explains the 'risks'... the OP should clearly understand all the issues and if the stress and risk is worth the try. That is his call and hopefully based on a good understanding of how his lady would respond to such denials.

Here is a little hint to the issues... Non-immigration visas (NIV) have the PRESUMPTION that the alien plans to willfully commit visa fraud... And if the consulate issues a visa, that means they believe there is no fraud about the visa.... It is to be a tourist.... No other pre-meditated acts... JMO... but the first comment above is fact from the consulate denial papers for NIVs.... just read the plain text in english.