Cerberus

David I wholeheartedly agree with you and your analyzes. This has been going on for 1000 years in China. In Japan, for approximately the same amount of time as China, Korea with a shorter ¡°cultural¡± history, maybe 500 years, etc, etc. I think one other thing that bothered me, was the author¡¯s naivety as to instilling Confucian patterns of thought with government workers. My wife was a former civil service member, not a member of the CCP, and these values were told to them in weekly briefings by her Cell Leader. My cousin-in-law is a higher-ranking CCP civil service worker in the Sichuan Province with Education. He and I have discussed this issue before in person. His largest lamentation, was that the youth of China pay more attention to MP3¡¯s and fashion than the do to the CCP and Confucian teachings and only care for themselves. Civil Government Tests in China and instilling the paradigm that the person (Govt/civil service) representative has a responsibility to family, his local community the government and their individual, has been ongoing for at least for a 1000 years in China. This learning comes from ancient values, that has been ongoing far longer than the 270 years plus of American Government. (Please realize this is not a knock against the US) This is eloquently pointed out in fiction novels of China (e.g. Manchu and Dynasty, written by Robert Elegant. Sorry, I just recently reread them.), countless soap opera dramas from the same previous countries, all emphasizing civil services administrators and their roles in life, The Four Great Books of Learning and actual recorded history in numerous countries. I suspect that this educational pattern and values will be ongoing for many, many years to come. In fact long after the author and all of us have departed this Earth. That is the reason that I feel that this particular article was sensationalist dribble and extremely poorly researched. Which lead my to my own personal questions; 1) Why was he writing it in the first place and who was he directing the article at? 2) What is he attempting to change in the common society? 3) Why did he take such a stance, with HIS opinion and not have conducted research at the, for lack of a better term, grass-roots level of the Chinese society as a whole? I hope that this thread doesn¡¯t turn political and get locked up by Donahso and/or other moderators. Personally myself, I want to have my wife read it and I want her opinion. I want to use the article as an ignition source for a correct meaningful discussion. Who knows? Perhaps she can educate me further about the Chinese society as a whole, albeit her individual perspective. Dave

Not disagreeing with your analysis but I think you have the wrong David Brooks. This is David Brooks,journalist, not author. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brooks_(journalist) Thanks Dave, I indeed do stand corrected. "Gotta start checking my search parameters in the future!" LOL! However, his argument still seems to be a load of sensationalist crapola! (Taken from link provided by IllinoisDave) How does a common sense reader know that he didn't withdraw this argument from and I quote... "just picked that 10,000 out of the air." Yahhhhh! This is a man that I could base my entire outlook on the declining Chinese educational process. He must have seen such a huge slice of Chinese culture that all the rest of us and our respective better halves must have missed. I mean after all...our Chinese wives and/or husbands don't know a thing about China and it policies, right? I SAID right?

Just to add my 2 fen to this conversation, after reading this article I do agree with IllinoisDave. However, I would go further to state that D. Brooks didn¡¯t in my opinion thoroughly research his argument. I would definitely agree with IllinoisDave that he (D Brooks) is really ¡°wrapped around the axle¡± in regard to elitists in China Duhhhhh We aren¡¯t doing the same thing with entrance exams in the US? (e.g. MIT, most given medical schools in the and CalTech, just from the top of my head). Look at the problems (selection and/or recruitment, suicide rates, etc) that he rails against. This same system has been in us in the educational systems in the countries of Korea, Japan and Taiwan for the last 35 years when I first began my second overseas tour of duty in 1976, in Republic of Korea. They were and still are using the same system he alludes to as something new and an evil in China. The closest analogy I could think of when I lived in several oriental countries and observed their educational system. To myself it resembled a upside down funnel. In order for one to succeed and gain entry through the small opening; You had to succeed required education, test and eventually become a corporate team player. Otherwise, you simply remained with the others in the funnel that couldn't succeed ("get through the opening."). IMHO, the US has the same funnel. It simply has a larger opening than in other countries. BTW, David Brooks hasn¡¯t been selected in the same manner? Here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brooks_(author), for his educational background. Yessss, Australia does use the same selection process as the big schools in the US. Right! The Australian educational system doesn¡¯t select people in the same manner as China and Japan? What was the biblical adage¡­Remove the log from your own eye, before you remove the splinter from your brother¡¯s eye? From Wikpedia: ¡°¡­Brooks currently is a professor of Australian Literature at the University of Sydney¡­.¡± Yes folks! D. Brooks doesn¡¯t belong to any corporate structure being a professor and isn¡¯t a team player at the University. After all, his name was simply ¡°drawn from the proverbial hat!¡± IMHO, this is mere sensationalist journalism. I see about five different things that he alludes to. He has done his own sins in three of them. Yet he would cast stones in his own glass house? My largest question is what social ill is he attempting to correct? China¡¯s or the world¡¯s?

Did you try the photographs link SHZ? Fantastic! San Diego It is high cost, but I wouldn't give it up for the world! If you change your mind, Cost of Living is silly, downtown in SD. I live in El Cajon and it was very acceptable to me. Let me know when you arrive. First round is on me Dave

Moving can be very stressful for all in a family unit. This fact can be compounded when you have a cross-cultural marriage. I was thinking of this today issue today and how it related to forum members. I remember many members of this forum moving, or their particular wife and/or fianc¨¦e wanting to know what life would be like where they were going to live. Therefore, I have posted this link for all members to use. http://www.city-data.com/forum/ As a suggestion, some of the various threads will have large images (e.g. San Diego, LA, etc). Your better-half or yourself might want to have a high speed internet and/or up-to-date PC to download images, due to their size. Yin complained of this fact when she went to a local computer/coffee/gaming shop in Chengdu. Eventually, she went to the business center in the Minshan Hotel, and the download speeds were greatly reduced. Recently I departed my lovely digs in Oklahoma City and moved my family to San Diego. My thoughts on this move¡­¡­Fantastic! However, there were many questions to be researched. Most especially my wife had numerous questions about where we were going. I should add that at this time in my life, I had sent Yin back to China for a 4 month-long (June through October) extended vacation. I was researching on the Internet and found this particular site, that I feel will help many members when they are moving or answer their wives question about what an area is like, where they eventually will live. Here is the link for this site. It deals with all areas and major cities of the United States. I should add that the site is accessible through China. I know that Yin used this particular link for San Diego. There was one drawback; Thank God I found employment in San Diego! After she looked at the photographs, she fell in love. If I had chosen LA over San Diego, I hate to think about what my home life would have been like. For forum members who wonder why people move to San Diego, look at the photographs that were submitted to the San Diego Forum thread. You will know why they move here, high cost living or not. BTW these photographs are very real. Yin and I have been to many of them when we have the time. http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-diego/4...-san-diego.html I hope that this small contribution can help members. Dave

As for the above comments, my husband said that since I am a science background, I didn't know the 5000 year history, or know how to utilize the 5000 history to back me up in our disagreement. He is obviously proud of himself. For some reason I have no doubt that you have your own way to manage your husbands pride. Simply a subdued wife. Joanne, You gotta be kidding me. You a subdued wife....LOL! That's rich The day that a Chinese woman becomes that docile, is the day that the world needs to watch out. My wife says the same thing "Ohhhhhhh Honey....Chinese women are so docile and kindly wives." My thought of this type of sneak attack.....> http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/extra1/bs.gif Yahhhhhh Chinese women are docile in appearance only. I may be big! I may be bad! I may be a man! However, she knows how to control me through Chinese metal mind control......> http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/extra1/bonk.gif Mop or pipe; a Chinese woman knows how to keep hubby in line

Thanks Jim, Now I fully understand the headaches you have in you career field, when you travel. I personally hated the indoctrination, medical treatment in Kuwait on my way over. I presumed my shots were in order...But noooooo! My butt and arms are beginning to hurt from past memories of the shots. Look forward to getting to some of the gatherings. BTW, are the Chinese restaurants in Rowland Heights still on par? IMHO, I always thought of them as being better than Monterey Heights. Your opinion?

Same here, welcome back . I do miss your well worded, true to life tales from the heart. I'll have to work on something else. A few ideas are floating around! Thanks for the red carpet treatment

Welcome Back Dave... Didn't miss ya.... Ok I lied, missed your fantastic stories about ¡°living in the USA with a Chinese Wife¡±. It seems that someone revived the chicken and pig post and we all had a big laugh AGAIN! Biker Barn is closed due to it was just too boring since you left (yea right) and not enough pics¡­I mean postings. Christmas is here again and glad your back¡­ p.s. ¨C Did your work in Iraq involve carrying ANY kind of weapon (Wink, Wink). Just Checking! Thanks for the welcome back. Photos? Who me? LOL Regard to weapon, I was allowed to carry a private purchased piece. However, I was a civilian contractor, working through a corporation. (No! not Blackwell. GEEEEZ what a mess that debacle is.) Most weapons were from the security contingent and the armed forces in the same compound. We were working at a "rear" (LOL) service depot. I hate to think what they thought a forward deployed area was! Biggest problem was there simply is no place to go! It was either sleeping, reading or working. I chose the working side of the house to keep from going crazy!

IMHO, and this has been awhile I suggest that you begin to get the co-sponsor arranged right now. When I processed Yin's (wife) my K-3 Visa (about 1.5 years ago), there was paperwork involved, Income tax statements. We only had to present one year's worth. What would happen is USCIS asks for 3 years worth from you? The same rules apply for both the applicant and the co-sponsor. Hopefully, you will only have to give one year's worth. But these circumstances can change quickly! 1) First I had to arrange someone to be a co-sponsor. Many in my own family balked at the thought of such a commitment. This issue will double their concern when some is asked for a 10-year commitment for the 864 2) Then Yin needed both 134s and the prior year's Tax paperwork for both myself and the co-sponsor, prior to the interview. 3) I eventually found a career, so that I didn't need a co-sponsor. You're circumstances may be different. It has been awhile and the rules at GUZ may have changed slightly. However, the 864 issue will definitely up later at AOS. You probably have enough headaches processing paperwork, tickets, worrying about the interview, pink and/or blue skips, overcome paperwork (God forbid). Why wait until the last minute? Summary: Get the co-sponsor arranged right now. You don't need the aggravation of running around making last minute arrangements. The rules are clear, 125% above poverty line or get a co-sponsor. If you haven't got this total, you don't have this total. Make the arrangements for the cosponsor, now.

Better half and I have both been down this road. My advice, they may or may not care about what type of ginseng it is. It is the thought that counts....... However, they will catch the expiration date. This is important to many Chinese people. They will defiantly look at the date to see if it is "good!" I know that i sounds silly to many of us. However, it is an important to my 82 year-old uncle-in-law. In fact to many Chinese. I have already been here and done this 2 years previous with my wife and relatives. ! The purchase of ginseng is easy! Any Oriental) Korean, Japanese. Chinese, etc, etc) store will have it. The key IMHO, is smart shopping freshness and date cost of product shipping costs due to the weight time Please remember to get it in the mail quick. The closer to Christmas, the cost will go up and the longer of the delay for delivery. May I ask; why not a nice phone call/card, etc for Christmas? They may not be a believer in Christmas. Christmas in my home and in many Chinese realities is a mediocre event. However......... Chinese New Year is something all together different. I can imagine my 82 year old uncle-in-law throwing fireworks in Chengdu, during this time of the year! Just food for thought! You choose the appropriate time and gift. You know you're family better than I do. However, ginseng is the least of your problems. It is easily carried by most Oriental stores. If problems, stop by any Korean vendors. If they don't carry ginseng, they have their citizenship revoked to Korea Dave

I wish to apologize to members for being absent for such a lengthy period. Perhaps, many were wondering if I fell of the end of the planet Earth, never to return to this forum. However, the contrary is true. I was previously working in Oklahoma City. Another employee and myself, through a mutual contact, were employed in an overseas location approximately 50 miles NW of Kirkurk, Iraq. The pay was excellent! However, the drawbacks to the family are substantial! I would not recommend it for those whose who desire an 8-hour day and faint of heart. Most of the days were spent either working or sleeping. I mean 12 to 14 hours a day of work. Not much fun. I was able to monitor and was able to quickly read some postings in the forum (via laptop). However, I was not able to post/update due to corporate communications/security/¡±corporate time allotted¡± from posting. Yin, my wife, monitored for me and later would via post me. I have recently returned to the states (4 Dec 07), anew an enlightened person. You may think that the US ducks! Wait until you have been gone from it for months or so plus. I cannot even describe how ecstatic I was to return! At the present time, I¡¯m still readjusting to the US, San Diego, the general nature of California and my wife who did not accompany me to the Middle East, needless to say. I have now found new employment in the San Diego area with another firm. I suppose that I will have to monitor the CA Residents Unite thread more closely (sighhhhhhhhI). Is this good or bad? To make a long story short; 1) Thank God for my return the USA and my wife! 2) I avoid the beaches and any sand and/or gravel! If you wish to know what this area is like¡­.. It SUCKS! Please give me a few days to read posts, digest and post. Then I will be back in fit form as may have known me. The ¡°Biker Bar¡± had a raid!?! Well, didn¡¯t surprise me too much However, thanks Don for try to give it the ¡°college try!¡± I will make one more posting quickly to the favorite Christmas movies, after this posting. BTW, California¡¯s from the ¡°California Unite¡± thread! I took my wife to my old ¡°stomping grounds¡± in Korea-town. We proceeded to go to San Fernando Valley area, near Sherman Oaks to visit a past friend of mine from Korea. We then proceeded to Rowland Heights 99 Ranch Market, to get fresh sculpin and Chinese beef jerky¡­¡­ My wife does had two questions for all California members in this particular area: 1) Is the San Fernando Valley area, attempting to replace Beijing for the ¡°smog capital¡± of the world? **Hint she doesn¡¯t think you are there yet, but give it 5 years!?! Who knows? 2) I emphasize the words when driving and what I have taught her, ¡°always drive defensively!¡± After seeing and driving in LA traffic for approximately 5 hours plus, she has questioned me whether or not, she should drive ¡°defensively or offensively?¡± Her words as exactly as I can remember: ¡°Get them before they hit you, Langoun! This is America! If they hit me, I can sue them for money! More than I could ever win from The Mega-bucks Lottery! I will never win this!¡± My thoughts: Jesus H. CHRIST GUANGZHOU!!!!!!!!!!!!. You were worried about a fraudulent marriage?!?! You better start checking for Chinese women who wish to drive in California! I suggest that we appoint more judges to the bench! My wife has yet to receive her first ticket yet! I will keep every one informed of this particular circumstance. Something tells me that the CA justice system doesn¡¯t know that a ¡°tsumani¡± is about to envelope them! Please forgive me. I¡¯m about to make a small post of the ¡°Favorite Christmas songs. It is so good to be back with the US, my wife and this forum. In the case that I forget; Merry Christmas, everyone! Dave

Rak, Very poignant poem and also filled with many truths. It always surprised me how many people found God in a fowhole, or prayed to him when they were in deep trouble! Only then do they find Him! My only solution was to make peace with God, before and then fight like Hell to remain alive and sane! Too bad many other people can't find this out before. What was the old adage; "There aren't many atheists in foxholes?" My condolences to your family and yourself, for the loss of your father

KNL, That is why I added the line that liberal (protester) or not; in the end it really doesn't matter where you stood on a particular issue. At the risk of sounding liked a "canned" statement of propaganda, the reason that you can stand and protest where you is what we (soldiers) did. Many times we on our perspective and disagree, but that is YOUR right! However, we still bear the scars! This is NOT a debate or a political tirade. What is done; IS Done! The Russian proverb comes to mind; "The hardest thing to catch in the world, is a spoken word! Once said, it can never be undone." I suppose that it is the same in any war/conflict. Once started, it can never be recalled and a war never has prejudice. All (soldiers and civilians) become equal to the fury and horrors therein! I apologize to all. Have been a bit quiet this weekend, remembering! That is the most painful part of war. Thinking of things that I should have done, the things I could have done and finally the things I would have done. When it is happening it isn't too bad! When you have time to philosophize, then the ghosts come back! Yes! Even, 25 years plus later!

Jim, I also read the articles. Seemed that the reporting was a bit "slanted" at times, but definetly worth a read. My only hope is that the world doesn't push China into another Somalia like we had! That was a still on-going debacle. I won't say much more since it would turn into ANOTHER banned subject of political debate. Hint hint! Elsewhere, my educated and esteemed colleague? Dave

For all the veterans and for those that either never had the chance, or chose not to serve in the Armed Forces of the US, whether liberal or not; at the end of the day, it really doesn¡¯t matter. I f y o u a r e a b l e, Save for them a place Inside of you, And save one backward glance When you are leaving, For the places they can no longer go, Be not ashamed to say You loved them, Though you may or May not always have, Take what they have left And what they have taught you With their dying And keep it with your own, And in that time When men decide, and feel safe, To call the war insane, Take one moment to embrace Those gentle heroes You left behind. By Captain Michael Davis O'Donnell Killed in Action 24 March 1970, Republic of Vietnam Promoted to Major after status changed to MIA My only prayer on this weekend is to my special friends that have left me behind! PFC Peter Geis, SP5 David Dewalt (Combat Medic), Cpl Howard Kroze, PFC Gilberto Jesus Rodriquez, Cpl Huachucua Menedez/Santiago, SP4 Cosme Miguel Ibarrara, SGT Stacy Spell, CW2 Gary Bolz, 1LT Steven Gilpen, PV2 Joshua Barry Dixon (aka ¡°dapper¡± ), SSG Eric Wade, SFC Jim Morrissey and finally SGT Issac Stanislaski. Your families and I still remember who and what you were. It has been going on 28 years. Your memories are still fresh in my mind, as I had met with you yesterday. It keeps me alive. Although, I have thought of it many times in the past, quitting Life to be with you. I still see you in my dreams and nightmares. I will remain strong for you! I see your families when I can They are doing fine. The children still remember you. A portion of their minds has moved on. However, you have never left completely. I¡¯m still lonely and look forward to the day when we can be together again as soldiers. May God continue to hold you gently! I will see you soon, my friends.

Charles, Fully agree. Once you have done it; you are spoiled for life! The hardest thing to do, is finding a decent haircut, shave etc, etc, in the states. It is etextremly very rare when I use a male barber anymore! A massge in the US? Yep! On a cold day in Hell or you better have more than a few bucks in your pockets! Man! I miss China!

Hey, wait a minute.... Aren't you the guy who is buying Chrysler from Daimler-Chrysler??? What are YOU doing posting here? There used to be a guy here that posted under your name.... Mike, "...Chrysler from Daimler-Chrysler?....." Is there is an alleged punch line I missed here? I prefer to drive a "shop, buy, drive and until it drops" car! Someone, had better not being using my "nome de guerre!" If they are please advise me. I will REMEDY this situation "toute DAMN suite!" Is this serious? Or just "yanking" my chain? Sorry! Don't mean to get on your case! I guess just "good-ole-boys" PMS is setting in. Maybe I missed something? I definitely ain't done with this thread! If I posted something I missed, please inform me! Then I will stand humbly before you and apologise to you and this forum! I checked my past posts. I mean all 656 posts! God! I need some Valium!

HaHa,you would HAVE to be a mental patient to pull a stunt like that. He didn't even do a very good job of vandalizim,barely damaged the picture. In America,we dont have to keep "spare" Statue Of Liberty,just in case . Cause we have cases and casses of Brasso metal polish! This could be a new viable government run program! BTW, what happened to the detained worker? Any news of the confesssion? Or did he just take off for his "vacation" in upper Mongolia already?

YES - it is one of the best. It is completely bi-directional. But because the function keys are in chinese - your SO would have to teach you how to use it. Read the link posted here - it covers many of the features of this model. But of course it has ABCD,etc keys for english input. If somebody wants to start bidding - go ahead - but I will not sell unless it is a fair price. I'm sure I can use it someday if I don't sell it. Thanks, FC Just put it up on Ebay? Mike, your comment about E-Bay got me thinking. What about both E-Bays? US Version and Chinese version? Or are they interconnected? Sorry, I just don't shop on E-Bay. Scott, given the matter a bit more thought. What about Chinese students at a higher level academic venues level major or local schools? I'm sorry I don't know where you live, or if this is a "doable" situation for yourself.

Scott and et al, I'm out. Apparently she has decided to buy Chinese. You're correct. It is cheaper in the US than China. However, she has decided on hitting "Computer Row" in her hometown. Sorry to have gotten your hopes up. Dave

Randy I saw that in the article; "...The damaged portrait would be replaced on Saturday night, the report said, adding armed guards were in the area and the Forbidden City was still closed to visitors. The portrait is periodically replaced with an identical copy..." This surprised me. I didn't know that the photpgraph was occasionally replaced. However, this should have been a "no-brainer" to me, since Bejing doesn't have exactly the most pristene air. I wonder if National Police have "extracted" the confession from the unemployed worker that was detained? Whatever! I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now!

Thanks for the hyperlink. The LCD screen on the current translator I have is going out. Will cost me more time and trouble to repair it, than to buy a new one. FC, seems from the link that your might have been taken advantage of price-wise. I'll check with the better-half and see which she wants to go. However, I should warn you; she is hard nosed in bargining! LOL Dave

Looks like someone is going to get an all expenses paid trip to an upper Mongolian Reeducation Center of PRC's choosing! Wife was never a member of CCP. She pointed out most Chinese weren't all that crazy about his politics, but his thoughts and words are still cherished by many. She pointed out that many places in Chengdu have monuments with quotations from Chairman Mao on them. They have never been touched, by anyone in their right mind!

Roger, My question is how long do we have, before the middle class is totally eliminated? Day to day living is becoming harder and harder for all of the middle-class that really make up the backbone of the US economy Two classes: The "haves": People with the majority of the money and no longer worry about the day-to-day needs or extravagant spending. The "Have-Nots": Everyone else!