Stuck in Guangzhou Hell

[animatormark]

So that lady must have been the infamous "Black Pearl." Any news yet? Did you resubmit the documents?

[pingme]

one thought ...

 

for all those cases such as this, where someone in our group has been screwed along the way,:

 

- we write a collective letter, documenting the case

- each of us sends it to our respective representatives/senators asking for some accontability on what is going on in our embassy over there.

 

it is our tax payers money that is funding their operations, and we are the one who elect them to represents us.

 

if my senator/representative does not want to bother with it, i'll let them know they are not getting my vote.

 

just a thought

 

pingme

[hank]

pingme,

 

You have a good idea, but there are several issues that arise. First, most of the people waiting are afraid to make any waves just yet... because we each have a lot riding on this visa process. So only those who have passed this ordeal can send the letters.

 

But most of those who get their visas move on... and we never hear from them again. I think that most of them just want to forget this nightmare.

I will give a lot of credit to those who stick around to offer their wisdom. It is greatly appreciated.

 

On the other hand, we are not talking about making giant changes in the way the DOS operates. In fact, we would merely be complaining about the poor service at ONE lousy consulate in GUZ. It would be like me complaining to Walmart's corporate offices about one store in my local town with poor service. In that sense, perhaps an outpouring of letters from those who have already received their visas, in the form of feedback to the DOS, could really help. Or maybe someone with a lot of $$ will initiate a lawsuit that is long overdue.

[hank]

Now if we were to issue complaints, we need to know who to talk to. Would we bring up the issue with Edward Dong, the consul General? Or is there someone higher up that we should talk with? Who is the man or woman who is in charge of oversight? That's what we need to know.

[egolessvegan]

Yes, many peole disappear after receiving their visas. That is a little disappointing. We should all try to support one another in whatever way possible. I guess everyone has their own agenda.

Ken

[nooneufo]

It would be of a benefit to future applicants if the past applicants who get mistreated by Guangzhou sent a complaint letter specifying their complaint, particularly where it seems clear to us, (who admittedly are only hearing one side of the story) that the visa officer simply makes up rules as they go, denying visas after white slips are issued, refusing to look at the evidence that is brought, or manipulating the system to lighten their work load, by denying visas to prepared petitioners. I agree with other posters, that once this time is past, you want to forget it. And while I hope that my own process is simple and straightforward, I am prepared for the possibility to send off my own complaint letters. The following I found on this web site:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/fieldoffi...hou/aboutus.htm

and although it appears to be related to adoptions, perhaps it can still be used. My own experiences with government says send letters to everyone even remotely related. By my calculations, 10 percent of CFLers have this problem. What does this mean for the large picture? If we go by Guangzhou's numbers for K1/K3, this means that they are doing this to at least 300 other petitioners who are equally prepared as required. Part of me thinks they just simply randomly deny people, a set amount each week. Because they have no training at all.

 

Cut and Pasted-----

If you feel you were mistreated by an immigration employee, or wish to make a complaint of misconduct by an immigration employee, you may write to the District Director, or write directly to the

 

Director, Office of International Operations

20 Massachusetts Ave., NW

Suite 3300

Washington, DC 20536

 

Or write to the Director, Office of Internal Audit, 425 I Street, NW, Room 3260, Washington, DC 20536.

End Cut and Paste-------

[Osumij]

Pingme,

 

I'm waiting right now for our interview to be over and obviously get a nervous feeling reading your story. I know it's not really over until 4:00 tomorrow when we get the passports back, but an initial white slip gives everyone a sense of relief.

 

Your story helps reaffirm my belief that the decision on any particular case has been made BEFORE the interview even begins. Thus, they don't want to look at any evidence because you're getting rejected no matter what. This is actually good news for you because they haven't looked at the evidence.

 

Good Luck!

[cosmiclobster]

I'm waiting right now for our interview to be over and obviously get a nervous feeling reading your story.  I know it's not really over until 4:00 tomorrow when we get the passports back, but an initial white slip gives everyone a sense of relief.  

Osumij: Good luck with getting the visa!! B)

 

Please post some of the details of the interview when you can to help us still waiting to prepare.

 

Thanks!

[BobandNicole]

Hate to tell you this folks, but before you start writing letters to congressmen, consulate, etc, Practice talking to a brick wall. It will do as much good.

 

I live close to Guangzhou and have had many dealings with the whole group, not just the immigrant/non-immigrant visa units. The joke amoung expats here is if you have problems, go to the Canadian Consulate, you're better off and will get more help.

 

The whole posting is pretty much unorganized. The same officer at ACS will tell you one thing for setting up documents, then when you come back with what he wants he'll tell you you need somethig completely different. When you come back with that, he'll tell you again something different. To get one document notarized it took 4 tries.!!!

 

DCS was another treat. When they gave me the initial forms for DCF filing, the guy gave me alist of docs, and showed me examples of each. Went and followed that, then when I got back, a different person looked at all the docs and said I needed something different!! Another round of dealing not only the consulate but various PRC agencies to provide the documents.

 

On return, I sat waiting for a half hour while the staff looked at baby clothes, until someone tore themselves away to actually start waiting on people.

 

The part that really astounds me, is they don't even have an up to date internal telephone directory. If someone wants to call someone else in the consulate, they can't find out the extension number half the time.

 

I think I know the "black pearl" you're talking about. I think she's burnt out and needs to be rotated out.

 

Ok, now I'm done venting, the whole trick for my wife and I on interview day is not to create total mayhem in the place. But then again the guards with AK-47's do tend to make me calm down a bit....

 

Bob

[hank]

nooneufo,

 

You are talking about the USCIS, which is a department of homeland security. GUZ is part of the DOS. But I still think that you have a valid idea.

 

If we knew the right person or persons in the DOS to lodge complaints with, we may be able to make an impact.

 

And even better, if we can make those complaints specific to the VO's that consistantly screw over our CFL members... like the infamous black pearl. When the right people hear the same complaints over and over, they may be compelled to check things out.

 

And to increase our leverage, we need to learn how the complaint process works. Are there any laws on the books that require oversight or the investigation of complaints?

 

I'm throwing these questions out to any CLF member that may have some insight.

[nooneufo]

Since reading this topic and other ones, I have been gathering my own resources, in case the worse happens. I hate to say this, but I get the general impression that this seems to be happening to K3 people more often than K1. Anyway, those of us waiting can do nothing because a general complaint about the process is just one of many, wrong as it is. But specific complaint about a specific government worker is quite different, and requires the person who is abused to do the complaint. While the beneficiary is denied, the petitioner is the primary applicant. I see here on the DOS page that there is some useful information of who is who, and who does what. Again, my suggestion, and backup for myself, is to write the letter if you have a problem that is unreasonable. I don't think that anyone would say that those complaining about how they are being treated by civil service employees who fail to do their job properly is asking for special treatment. Of course I would strictly follow Donahso's advice, and jump through the hoops first, if they allow any that is. In ChuckandShuping's case, it sounds like they just need to waste the time to provide what they already brought to the interview. I would write letters after.

http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/02fam/02m0030.pdf

 

I will say though I will bring the handy complaint form as well that was provided in the other topic. Maybe there is a bin at Guangzhou full of these.

[king]

I would like to clarify somethings about the "lawyers" that that are claimed to be providing visa legal services or representation around the Consulate in Guangzhou or at other places in Guangdong.

 

First of all, there are legitimate U.S. licensed lawyers beside myself praciticing U.S. immigration law at the Consulate who have offices in Guangzhou.

 

I came to Guangzhou about 5 1/2 years ago to work full time in Guangzhou as an U.S.lawyer with a Chinese visa consulting company doing immigration law. Because this was a big compeitive edge for the company I work for, many other consulting companyw started claiming they had a "lawyer" too. What I have learned over the years is that these companies do not have a U.S. lawyer on site if they have one at all in reality. Those consulting companies might say they have a "lawyer," but who might turn out to be a Chinese lawyer that certainly is not allowed to practice U.S. law or to interact with the Visa Section for clients or they might have some connection with a "U.S. lawyer" in the States who lends her/his name for use by the consulting company , but never or rarely shows up in Guangzhou.

 

There are only a handfull of these consulting companies that have a license or permit from the national Chinese government to do this kind of consulting. The company I work for has such a license/permit. Most of the other "consulting companies" in Guangzhou do not have such a license/permt.

 

It is a very competitive situation here especially with the gyp joints all around promoting their garbage services. I have nothing but disrespect for them as most of them are like jackels and have no ethical standards. The one in particular I detest is known as USA Consulting right across the street from the Consulate entrance with its entrances just next to the barrier to go into the space for the visa applicants to congregate. It is the one that has its sales agents all over entrance/exit area shanghaiing people into their offices. I have heard many complaints about how they treat clients or more to the point ex-clients. It claims to have a "lawyer." I have never seen its lawyer. If you or your SO is being persuaded to use these companies, ask to see its lawyer, so you know it actual has one. Don't be put off if they said the lawyer is not in. That is probably a lie. If the company introduces you to its lawyer ask to see his/her Bar Association card or license to practice or Bar Association membership number. Check them out.

[lele]

I would like to clarify somethings about the "lawyers" that that are claimed to be providing visa legal services or representation around the Consulate in Guangzhou or at other places in Guangdong.

 

First of all, there are legitimate U.S. licensed lawyers beside myself praciticing U.S. immigration law at the Consulate who have offices in Guangzhou.

 

I came to Guangzhou about 5 1/2 years ago to work full time in Guangzhou as an U.S.lawyer with a Chinese visa consulting company doing immigration law. Because this was a big compeitive edge for the company I work for, many other consulting companyw started claiming they had a "lawyer" too. What I have learned over the years is that these companies do not have a U.S. lawyer on site if they have one at all in reality. Those consulting companies might say they have a "lawyer," but who might turn out to be a Chinese lawyer that certainly is not allowed to practice U.S. law or to interact with the Visa Section for clients or they might have some connection with a "U.S. lawyer" in the States who lends her/his name for use by the consulting company , but never or rarely shows up in Guangzhou.

 

There are only a handfull of these consulting companies that have a license or permit from the national Chinese government to  do this kind of consulting. The company I work for has such a license/permit. Most of the other "consulting companies" in Guangzhou do not have such a license/permt.

 

It is a very competitive situation here especially with the gyp joints all around promoting their garbage services. I have nothing but disrespect for them as most of them are like jackels and have no ethical standards. The one in particular I detest is known as USA Consulting right across the street from the Consulate entrance with its entrances just next to the barrier to go into the space for the visa applicants to congregate. It is the one that has its sales agents all over entrance/exit area shanghaiing people into their offices. I have heard many complaints about how they treat clients or more to the point ex-clients. It claims to have a "lawyer." I have never seen its lawyer. If you or your SO is being persuaded to use these companies, ask to see its lawyer, so you know it actual has one. Don't be put off if they said the lawyer is not in. That is probably a lie. If the company introduces you to its lawyer ask to see his/her Bar Association card or license to practice or Bar Association membership number. Check them out.

Just like everything else in the capitalist world:

 

Buyer beware!

[G-man]

Can King tell everyone if he is available to help, or would it be a shameless plug. I'm sure a lot of folks wouldn't have a problem paying for some honest advice.

[PJ]

King,

 

Thank you for your very informative post.

 

gyp joints all around promoting their garbage services. I have nothing but disrespect for them as most of them are like jackels and have no ethical standards. The one in particular I detest is known as USA Consulting right across the street from the Consulate entrance with its entrances just next to the barrier to go into the space for the visa applicants to congregate. It is the one that has its sales agents all over entrance/exit area shanghaiing people into their offices.

 

I know exactly which one you are talking about. You know, there's not a really clear entrance / checkpoint to the US consulate. It's sorta this "fuzzy" area. My wife (fiancee at the time) and I went toward the consulate and we were stopped by one of those "consultant reps" and I thought they were like a consulate guard or US consulate employee or something.

 

Wish the consulate had a more clear entrance/checkpoint. Did anyone else who has been there get that feeling ... you didn't know where the road ended and the outside business ended and the consulate started?

 

P.J.