oregonknl Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Time moves on... Many Tibetans are less inclined to support a theocratic government and more inclined to welcome personal opportunity under the pragmatic PRC government.. This manifests itself in many ways: Opportunities for Women (Finally, even in local government positions) road building, communications, education, and lets not forget that the PRC gov. is financially responsible for the restoration of the Buddist temples...... ...... has (American) tourism increased as a result? ...... of course Link to comment
tonyontherock Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Tibet, China, Taiwan, Chinese, American, Japanese, Tianmen Square, I mean, who cares.This New Years eve I was hoping to watch the fire works and they darn cancelled it becuase some people died in Indonesia or something. What a bum! People these days are taking things too seriously.They had it all over the TV that some old Chinese man died. I mean, I would be pretty happy if I could live till 85. He looked kind of familiar and I think I might have even seen him once somewhere before. So what? Lots of people die. Lots more will one day or another. I just hope they won't close down the bars or night clubs or something because he died. This weekend I am going into China again for fun. It was pretty boring TV any way. At least during the last storm thingy there were interesting pictures to watch or read about people telling stories on how their loved ones got washed away. I love dramatic scenes. The death of an old man is not! I don't really care who Tibet belongs to or Taiwan belongs to . But if there is a war and I can watch some interesting footage on TV, I am all for it. YOu guys are getting a bit too serious about things. Tianmen Square was the worst tourist spot. I went there like two years ago. Nothing to see!! Just an empty lot. Why can't they build like a huge out door cafe or something with semi-nude girls dancing on that platform. It would be a lot more fun. Link to comment
tonyontherock Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Time moves on... Many Tibetans are less inclined to support a theocratic government and more inclined to welcome personal opportunity under the pragmatic PRC government.. This manifests itself in many ways: Opportunities for Women (Finally, even in local government positions) road building, communications, education, and lets not forget that the PRC gov. is financially responsible for the restoration of the Buddist temples...... ...... has (American) tourism increased as a result? ...... of courseTimes movee on, Right On!Now woman in China got a lot more choices in work and in life. People are not as confined as before. I walked down the street with two girls the other day, one in each arm and no one seems to mind at all. More American tourists means more businesses. For instance, the girls in Tebet change 100 for locals, 200 for people from Hong Kong and over 500 for Americans. I can see why Richard Gear(?) would complain that he would over pay, but the Tibetans do have a much better life.I love the PRC governent. They pay for everything. You know, not only Tibetan Temples, they also pay for Christian Churches. All the guys in Charge of the Christian Churches (san zi ai guo hui ) are even communist party members!Lets talk about the other kind and lovely things that the communists did for each and every group... " Don't forget you are in China" Did any one of you hear that before? I believe not. Cause you don't look Chinese. I do and I am. Link to comment
maiyademama Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 GEEEEEZZZZEEE ~! I go away for about 10 hours and this is what I gET ~ !?!? But the reality is that I can't respond with any thought on any of these subjects --- and good job at being wide ranging everyone ~! (although I do believe they are inter- related) I'm (finally) moving into my new house, ( so every thing is packed, (NOT) and evey detail is Resolved ! (not)..... Carl wants me to address the issue of Tibet on the RR 2 --- which I'm not going to do ---- this is a legitimate issue about Chinese culture, and therefore, legitimate right here at the Candle....... (hear that TAZ !!! --- Chinese culture ~!! ) Just as if yesterday, had some interestiong face to face discussions about that with my Father in Law (a PLA officer at the time) ---- we went over much what I already knew (and, Tax, he is, even today, an inside track kind of a guy, doesn't believe all of the BS party line, because he gets the truth ---- Your figures are WAYYYY off about Tibet !!! and you are mixing apples and oranges ---- During the Cultural Revolution there was wide spread persecution of Tibetans ........ BUT TAZ ~!!!!! DDURING THAT SAME TIME, THERE WAS WIDESPREAD PERSECUTION OF OF INTELLECTUALS ALL OVER CHINA ~!!! AND AS I HAVE POSTED HERE IN SOME DETAIL, FEI'S FAMILY WAS PULLED UP INTO THAT, INCLUDING HER FATHER !! But it is also true that Tibet as a religious state was a bone crushing Cast System ---- Taz ! I'm amazed ! Women were almost uniformly at the very lowest level of society ---- and had Zero oppertunity to advance...... Members of lower casts were sold as chattel... But there is another thing about China's incursion into Tibet that western film makers (Hollywood) is reluctant to admit.... i ..... t was Approved by the Dali Lama ~!! And (according to my Father in Law ----- who I trust as an intellectually honest man.... ) the resistance to that incursion was lead by members of the Kumingtang~!!! --- which if you think about it makes perfect sense ..... .... The cut off, and isolated Nationalists in western China eventually DID retreat to countries south of the border, and there have been several articles about them recently in the western press --- ----- and TAZ ~! Where (in all of Hollywood) did the idea emerge that Tibetan Budddists were "war like" enough to launch a military campain --- even in their own defence ~? Taiwan, also, of course, has long been a part of China, and will be brought back into line in our life time... sorry that I don't have time to discuss it, but if this topic is still around in a week, I will... Also the number of deaths at Tianamin were wildly exagerated.... Most occured west of the city ( not the students even, for the most part, but working class youths who got in front of the tanks....) Harrison Salsberry (sp.) was there at the time, and witnessed much of it ... (NY Times) Fei also was a college student, and protestor, at the time --- and she readily admits that if her father knew it then --- he would skin her alive ~!You really got me this time, Kim. I haven't the faintest clue what you are ranting about. Someone asked when was the last time China invaded another country and killed its inhabitants? All I did was answer with some information about Tibet. What is your problem??? You always want to make this so personal...I don't get it. I hope you enjoy your new house, home, and family... Peace Brother! Link to comment
Trigg Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 All I did was answer with some information about Tibet. What is your problem??? You always want to make this so personal...I don't get it. I hope you enjoy your new house, home, and family... Peace Brother!When did a search for the truth become personal?? Link to comment
maiyademama Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 All I did was answer with some information about Tibet. What is your problem??? You always want to make this so personal...I don't get it. I hope you enjoy your new house, home, and family... Peace Brother!When did a search for the truth become personal??Read the TONE of the writing, Trigg. It is pretty personal and attempts to identify me as having posted something outrageous or at least posting some outrageous and dare I say *unbelievable* opinions. I posted information about Tibet that is documented and verifiable. A simple google search will land anyone the same info. My problem was that I didn't type the source. I thought it would show up. I am not the author of the information. I just posted it. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact site I found the info on, but it was an NGO site that supports Tibetan Freedom...so is therefore biased towards Tibet. Anyway....this has gone way off topic. Link to comment
cqhk Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 There is a lot to think about in this thread. Truth? I know a student protester who was there from the beginning until the end, almost starved himself to death. He really felt their cause was just, and just wanted someone to hear them out. His reward was being black balled out of the city and academics. Just recently he's been able to move on with his life. All that intellect wasted. I've met a lot of Taiwanese here in the US. To my surprise, all of them said Taiwan is and always will be part of China. "One big leaf." Years ago I was being told by Taiwanese that Taiwan will find it's way back, just have to be patient. A few of them told me that Taiwan is the little child, still mad and immature, while mainland China was the parent just waiting for the child to return home. "One day the leaf will be whole again." Whenever I hear US citizens yapping about Taiwan, I always think of the US civil war. I know I'm not the only one who see's the similarities. The North wouldn't let the South leave. How many people died fighting that war? Not only were americans killing americans, family members were killing family members. Relatively speaking PR China is still a young country, compared to the USA. If you look back on US history, I believe the US did a ton of damage during its infancy, teens, adulthood, and in its old age. Does the end justify the means? Mao and his cronies are no more barbaric than the early leaders of the US. I think a lot of other countries realize this and therefore still think of the US as hypocrits for telling them basically, "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DID." The US has practised forms of sensorship in differing degrees throughout its history. Give the people of China time to grow up on their own, don't force feed them western ideals. They have their own culture. They'll figure it out on their own, and they'll grow into it. I agree with Trigg regarding truth:Trigg Posted: Jan 17 2005, 10:44 PM "I pledge allegiance to the..." " America the beautiful..." .....The point is this, where you stand depends on where you sit. We ALL are prejudiced by what we have learned in our youth. Stalinist and lennonist are no different that the Mao backers or those who back the regime currently in power in the US. We have all learned that our way is the only way and our learned prejudices won't allow us to think outside of our preordained ethnocentric box. .....Just depends on where you sit and therefore where you stand. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. Triggt --------------------Never Moon a Werewolf Sometimes I think US citizens forget how this country was built and at what cost. It wasn't all roses, especially for the native americans, the slaves, and the second wave of immigrants. "Manifest Destiny" I'm sure Mao had the same idea. It must've looked good on paper. And, like with most things, they probably forgot to factor in human nature. I've sat in many places throughout my life, but when I stand my feet are firmly planted on a rock in the pacific. Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono Link to comment
Trigg Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 "The US has practised forms of sensorship in differing degrees throughout its history. Give the people of China time to grow up on their own, don't force feed them western ideals. They have their own culture. They'll figure it out on their own, and they'll grow into it. Yea buddy!!!!! Link to comment
ghall20 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Maybe it is not true,but I hope we are a little more open minded here in the US,although I have often considered Sunday school to provide a pretty thorough brainwashing.As far as capitalism,the Chinese are the most naturally capitalistic people in the world.Communist,socialist,only words ,that do not fit the situation in China today. longI agree. The goverment is communist. Not the people. Link to comment
kfman Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I dont think you can actually say the US treats it people the same as other repressive governments, unless of course you have a conspiritory though process. Link to comment
kfman Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Oh, and Mark, though I was late to join, I go to RR2 several times a day to chit and chat... I know you see me there... Link to comment
oregonknl Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hey, I'm back ... sorry to be away, but moved ito a new house (that is not yet finished... ) So things are disorganized to say the least.... Taz, I never meant to be confrontational .... more on line with what Trigg said: searching for the truth about Tibet.... I'll be honest with you here, I have read somewhat both sides of this story, and I have eventually come down on the side of China regarding Tibet..... ... Which sort of surprised me, since many of you know, I was a rather active war protestor in my younger days.. Long before 9 - 11, I was pissing off my fellow China Watchers---- (those of us who had adopted in China) ---- by suggesting that a theocratic form of government (Tibet) was inherently rather nasty... Researching the issue ( to defend myself) --- gave me more than enough information to support my position.... Taz, to me, this is not an issue to "square off" over, but if you want to compare facts, I will be happy to.... .... and as I stated earlier, since Tibet is part of China, this is an appropriate forum for that discusion. Link to comment
Trigg Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Wahooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! Kim's bacl!!! Man you have missed a hell of a lot of stuff. Link to comment
John & Hai Yan Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 China rounds up, beats mourners for deposed leader Zhao: witnesses http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...rs_050127114011 Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now