Our CCP wait time - 88 days

[billyc]

Dan,

 

Thanks again for your information and comment.

 

Since I-601 can't be filed now and the consulate will automatically kick in their SAO, so nothing we can do after the interview? Is there anything we can prepare prior to the interview to cut down time to submit additional document?

 

We do not intent to lie, in fact, so many steps we could lie or take some dishonest steps to cut some time off, but we didn't. However, the procedure of the immigration doesn't seem reward honest people, only the other way around.Waiting for over 6 month now over this verification is just encourage people to lie.

[dnoblett]

I would have a resume prepared, and just be prepared to answer questions at the interview, from what I see they sometimes request a resume.

 

Also about the 6 months, I have seen a couple cases not CCP related take longer, Tasp Seui comes to mind. For the most part CCP cases tend to be 4 - 6 months, which can seem to be an eternaty, however they wait is worth it in the end.

[billyc]

There is no other option for us right now. We will do our home work and prepare the CCP letter and resume.

 

Thanks

[scovitz]

Hi billyc.

 

There are many others (I'd estimate easily over a 1000 currently) in your situation (including myself). Everyone does their homework and the best you can do is submit your paperwork to the consular officer immediately upon receipt of the blue administrative processing form. After that all you can do is wait. Many like myself have tried contacting senators, congressman, state department officials, etc, to get standard canned responses that they are doing everything they can. In fact, that may be true, everything they can with limited resources. The investigations the consulate performs vary from person to person (waiting for a piece of info or specific inquiry to complete), so people will receive their visas post AP at random intervals. It does appear that the minimum currently (in the absolute best case) is roughly 5 months post paperwork submission. It is more commonly over this time period (I am trying to collect data on this.) From what I have seen/heard, updates happen every week and visas are issues every week just at a slow pace. You cannot gain any insight due to these being investigations.

 

The only thing I have heard that can speed things up is to file a Mandamus claim to force the government to act. I believe this is expensive and at its fastest takes 4 months. Beyond that, foreign relatives of U.S. citizens have few rights and due process is only considered for criminal cases (not legal immigration).

 

What I think could work (long term, not short term) would be to get true complete data on wait times and consular staffing. Then highlight inefficiencies when comparing visas processed per consular site per the number of staff. Then somehow lobby the government to add additional staffing to GUZ.

 

For a family situation, I think you will want to (if possible) find a way to live with your significant other/child since the delay can vary widely.

[billyc]

Hi billyc.

 

There are many others (I'd estimate easily over a 1000 currently) in your situation (including myself). Everyone does their homework and the best you can do is submit your paperwork to the consular officer immediately upon receipt of the blue administrative processing form. After that all you can do is wait. Many like myself have tried contacting senators, congressman, state department officials, etc, to get standard canned responses that they are doing everything they can. In fact, that may be true, everything they can with limited resources. The investigations the consulate performs vary from person to person (waiting for a piece of info or specific inquiry to complete), so people will receive their visas post AP at random intervals. It does appear that the minimum currently (in the absolute best case) is roughly 5 months post paperwork submission. It is more commonly over this time period (I am trying to collect data on this.) From what I have seen/heard, updates happen every week and visas are issues every week just at a slow pace. You cannot gain any insight due to these being investigations.

 

The only thing I have heard that can speed things up is to file a Mandamus claim to force the government to act. I believe this is expensive and at its fastest takes 4 months. Beyond that, foreign relatives of U.S. citizens have few rights and due process is only considered for criminal cases (not legal immigration).

 

What I think could work (long term, not short term) would be to get true complete data on wait times and consular staffing. Then highlight inefficiencies when comparing visas processed per consular site per the number of staff. Then somehow lobby the government to add additional staffing to GUZ.

 

For a family situation, I think you will want to (if possible) find a way to live with your significant other/child since the delay can vary widely.

 

 

Scovitz,

 

When was your interview and how long have you been waiting if you don't mind.

 

Reading state department's "Foreign Affair Manual" published on their web site, it doesn't seems require a lot of process at the consulate. They will submit SAO to Washington Homeland security department. We are at hands of bureaucracy in Washington.

 

I am not sure if the SAO will be processed by the same departments as filing the I-601. According the "Foreign Affair Manual", all consulate's I-601 is processed by Nebraska Service Center, which on the processing time June bulletin showing at the 4/30/2014, they are processing the Dec 2, 2013. It is about the same as other service centers taking 4 months.

 

I really appreciate you are trying to organize and collecting the information on the wait time. However, I am not sure where your estimation of 1000 of Guangzhou CCP waiting for visa coming from. If that is true number, I don't think 5 months wait will clear that. I think in the long run, they should change the procedure and automatically launch the SAO when you file the DS-260 and answered "yes" to CCP questions. Only to those who was not honestly answered the question or found suspicious in interview ask the manual AP.

 

Last, I don't have an option to live with my family in China, since my job is in US and hard to move back just to past the wait time. I just have to keep suffering the pain for being apart from my family, specially my 17 months old little sunshine.

 

US is always claiming it is compassionate to the humanity. However, the immigration process is just too cruel and inhuman to so many broken families.

[lhp]

What I think could work (long term, not short term) would be to get true complete data on wait times and consular staffing. Then highlight inefficiencies when comparing visas processed per consular site per the number of staff. Then somehow lobby the government to add additional staffing to GUZ.

I've been thinking about this, specifically asking families to file FOIA requests to get data from the government about what was done when. I'm not sure what to request from whom, but it seems like we should be able to request:

1. That the FBI disclose when the background check request was received, when it was processed, and how long it took for this to be sent back to GZ.
2. That USCIS Guangzhou report on how long it is taking for background check requests to be sent, received, and processed.
3. Would there be anything to request from State or Homeland Security?

Here are the various sites: USCIS FOIA requests, FBI FOIA, State FOIA, DHS FOIA.

 

I think this is an uphill battle, though – I doubt there are many who want to expend political capital to do something that a political opponent could describe as "helping Chinese Communists come to the United States".

 

We are seven days away from having waited a year.

Edited June 17, 2014 by lhp (see edit history)

[scovitz]

billyc,

 

I have no problem answering your questions. My petition was started in Aug 2013, NVC case created in Oct 2013, my fiancee's GUZ interview was in Dec 2013. Like many here, I read everything I could possibly read and she submitted paperwork (resume, statements, etc) immediately upon being served the Administrative Processing blue slip. Been waiting 6 months so far...

 

I also read how the process should take place at the state department, but speaking with my immigration lawyer (second one ) he believes that most of the investigation occurs at the consulate. In any case, nothing in this modern age should take 6 months let alone 8 months, 10 months, or greater. You do a search in a computer or drop some emails to people or make some phone calls. From what I have been able to determine, the administrative processing time used to take 2-3 months but in 2013 in grew to 8-10 months (on average). I somehow feel that some parts of the overall process were streamlined which generated a backlog for this process. Who knows what is actually going on behind the scenes... I have not been able to determine this despite the myriad of ways I have tried to contact anyone affiliated with the process.

 

The other oddity is while there are updates to cases made weekly and many visas are issued weekly many are handled out of order. My feeling on this is that some cases get blocked unnecessarily. It is unclear whether they are waiting on the applicant to act or the consulate. Or if the paperwork submitted leads to different sorts of investigations that have nonuniform needs and hence nonuniform timeframes. If it was a standard process, one would imagine consistent timeframes and in order acceptance/denial.

 

I feel for you billyc since you are just starting this processing and wishing there was some way to short circuit it, but no one has figured out such a way to do this.

 

And lhp, I totally feel for you too. Reaching a year's delay with no status is extreme. Yet without data, we don't know if you are in the 1% case, 10% case, or 50% case. Going in person to the consulate to demand answers may not get you anywhere. They are pretty good about 'not' answering any direct questioning via phone or web form. I think most of us would do anything to get to talk to a real person and find out what is going on, yet it is an investigation so they don't need to reveal anything.

 

I like the idea of the FOIA requests, but I wonder how specific your request needs to be and what they are likely to 'share' with you. Then once you have this information, what will you ultimately do with it? In order for the government to improve their process or to receive greater staffing they may need legislation or direction from their leadership. This is unlikely to come without significant influence, pressure, or media scrutiny.

 

The thing that is the most likely to succeed (though I have only heard of a few cases of people trying it) is issuing a Mandamus order in Federal Court to force the government to act after unreasonable delay. Some immigration lawyers feel that unreasonable delay means 2 years but my current lawyer says we can do it at any time I am ready to move forward. I am not sure how much it costs (though I think it is not cheap) and I heard it can take a minimum of 4-6 months to get your day in court, but you will get that day and a decision on your case will be made.

 

The other challenge that I see is that many people involved with immigration proceedings are fearful of going after the government for fear it will affect their current or future cases. I think this is why there is such little back and forth or involvement among readers of this site (or other sites). I estimate that there are thousands of people currently in this same situation (though I need get complete numbers, not just estimates). Also, once people receive their visa, they are likely quick to move on to the next battle and leave this one behind. To make lasting change, it will take a concerted effort over a significant amount of time. However, we are not alone... Other forms of legal immigration and green cards can involve 6-10 year waits but at least they get to be together as a family while waiting in the U.S.

 

So I would be very interested to know the results of any FOIA requests you make... My approach is to try and collect statistics to hopefully inform people before getting into this situation or give them reasonable expectations once in the process. I think if I were to do it again, I would get married and live in China while the processing was going on so I could always be together with my significant other regardless of how long the processing would take. My current situation does not allow that to happen so I must be apart from my loved one like many of you. I am hopeful though that our time for approval will come near, but that remains to be seen.

 

Stay positive,

 

scovitz

[Randy W]

Even though most of these issues raising the doctrine are concerned with visa application denials, one thing you NEED to read up on is the Doctrine of Consular Non-reviewability

 

Immigration Irony: Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability Is Under Judicial Review

Our judicial system is already burdened with hundreds of thousands of deportation appeals, many of which are frivolous and launched simply to buy time in the United States.

 

There is no logical reason to create an opportunity for citizens of other nations to game our judicial system from overseas. It is important to remember that we are not speaking about a trial here, where there is a presumption of innocence. According to statute, the burden rests on the applicant to prove to the consular officer that he deserves to be admitted to the United States, not the reverse. The reason for this is to protect the American people.

 

 

Challenging the Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability

 

Law Profs Weigh In on Consular Non-Reviewability Lawsuit: Cardenas v. USA

 

By Immigration Prof

LexisNexis Legal Newsroom Immigration Law reviewability case (Cardenas v. USA). Robert Pauw, Charles Roth (National Immigrant Justice Center), and Professor Hiroshi Motomura (UCLA) are counsel on the brief: ""This brief is submitted to help the court understand the origins, nature, and limits of the so-called doctrine of consular non-reviewability. ... The doctrine of consular non-reviewability has never had a cogent justification. To the contrary, Supreme Court case law allows for significant, if not robust, judicial review of consular decisions. Such review – including at least review to ensure that the consular officer follows the governing statutes and regulations, that there is some factual basis for findings made by the consular office, and that fundamentally fair procedures are used – is essential to ensure that the laws passed by Congress are followed."

 

 

 

I'm not trying to make a point here - just be AWARE of the issues.

[tsap seui]

Nothing you try will get you any answers. (I'm not saying "don't try" though. It fills your waiting time with something to do if nothing else...and it sucks, but it makes your loved one see that you are trying everything in your power to rescue her from the infidels who are holding her hostage as they interfere with your "bona fide relationship".

 

There is NO OVERSIGHT with the Guangzhou consulate. They will not answer you or any humpty dumpty politician. You can get more information yourself than your congressman's immigration liaison can get with their "contacts and fancy inquiries". Trust me, been there, took a shit there. Got the T-shirt that says "Homeland Security...The Two Most Terroristic Words Ever Uttered To An American"

 

It F'ing sucks to high heaven, I empathise with you all. Hang in there guys, do what you can. It DOES end, you WILL get success. This shit does pass. Oh, you will forever despise the State of criminal insanity Department, but you will one day be able to do THAT, and HAVE your woman with you too.

 

Good luck to you all.....I wish you all Godspeed. I can guarantee you, I will be as happy to see your woman get her visa and be done with the MF'ing American DOS criminal idiots in Guangzhou as you will. I love to read of others success.

 

 

tsap seui

 

Everybody gets the visa in their hands.....some jes take longer than others

Edited June 21, 2014 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[Doug]

Tsapper none of us can say much since you had to wait so dang long. On the other hand, I see another hitch coming for me. I am partially to blame, but now another bottleneck because my wife, being a high school age coach, is a civil servant, and thus a CCP member? 1) I am all for the class action suite, and maybe groups like the ACLU can help. 2) The media thing is an idea too, like maybe the New York Times writer who ran an article about the delay at USCIS. The Obama order to sign up the illegal kids took staff away from the US Citizen spouse processing at USCIS.

 

3) And what, over 500 SS ofices have been closed since 2010 so the Boomers have a little more trouble? I feel like a war has been declared on citizens. I can't post, in CFL, what a born and raised Chinese lady, who is now a US citizen told me on the plane to China this last trip.

 

OK, I will review this with my wife, and keep the option of me going over to work for the year wait. The Chinese asked my wife for a basic resume of what I really do and what I know. A few days later she was told I have a job waiting for me at an aerospace company about an hour away from her house, IF she stayed and took on this new team they want to form. I will get her to firm that up with an actual price and commitment, for one year only. They want 4 years. She needs a break though. I just don't see me staying here another full year like this. I don't have to, so.... She has all the opportunity in the world, and everyone wants her job, but her boss just won't hire a replacement, and neither will the Province give up on her.

 

Funny, I have been given 5 job options of late, one in China. 2 of the 5 I could do part time as commision only, if I go back and forth. One I wanted to get more money than I make now full-time, but now I see that maybe I need to negotiate a part time situation going back and forth. And I think I can work that job in China part time, back and forth as well. Something has not been right and it has been strange. I have NEVER had this many job opportunities out of the blue like I have lately. And my present job has been very very weird. Maybe this mess is the reason. Her and I should be together. Will have to figure this and play it right.

 

Thanks for the heads up guys!!!!!!!!!

 

PS: In fact THANKS ever so much. This is a major thing, very major.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Doug (see edit history)

[Doug]

Well, I see I put her membership in the cover letter for the I-130 App. I just asked Fen if she has a paper or little book showing this membership and she says no, don't mention it. Of course it is too late for that now.

 

She said she can quit, so OK quit, but kind of a moot point now.

 

Not sure how anyone tracks this membership thing if no paper trail.

 

This is sad news and she did not take it very well. Does anyone get lucky at the interview and not a blue slip?

[tsap seui]

Well, I see I put her membership in the cover letter for the I-130 App. I just asked Fen if she has a paper or little book showing this membership and she says no, don't mention it. Of course it is too late for that now.

 

She said she can quit, so OK quit, but kind of a moot point now.

 

Not sure how anyone tracks this membership thing if no paper trail.

 

This is sad news and she did not take it very well. Does anyone get lucky at the interview and not a blue slip?

I hate to see this happening to you guys Doug. Not much of a way around it buddy. Soooooo, you do enjoy going to Chinartucky on a regular basis. The way to get through the pain of the wait is to look at it like the State Department is giving you the opportunity of getting to know and bond with your wife better than most guys, before their woman comes to live in America with them. Least, that's what I sold my wife with. LOL

 

The "wait" does suck the big one. LIl' rabbit and I had a different sort of wait in that we never had any approval at the interview BUT, that aside, the wait is the wait. I found that no matter how low I felt, I had to put a good strong, even happy spin on the thing for my wife. I would come up with any and everything I could to boost my wife's spirits. I remember callin' Chawls when I was so down I had exhausted every idea I could come up with to put a happy or positive spin on the wait. He was going through the whole thing at the same time and I think we're only 6 months or a year behind he and his wife's wait so we helped prop up each other at times. Anyhow, he helped me through those black times and it helped me to show a happy face to my wife...which kept her spirits up. As well, I went to China regularly...7 times...until I must admit, we really couldn't take anymore "goodbyes". We actually reached that point...the damned goodbyes hurt too damned much...I'm sure many folks won't understand that, but we ran into that in our wait. They became intolerable, my wife even told me after the 7th trip she couldn't take saying goodbye to me anymore. She almost wouldn't even go with me to the airport when I left that last time...too damn hurtful.

 

You guys can make the upcoming wait Doug. At least you can plan for it as you know it is going to come. It'll be up to you to keep your wife's spirits up should you get one of the waits longer than the typical 4 months or so. I'd plan on "6 months minimum as a starting point" as you talk to your wife and coach her on what is coming after success at the interview, then secretly hope for the best...hope she gets a surprise should the consulate contact her earlier.

 

You don't mention it here, but I hope she doesn't think you made a mistake by admitting she was a member on your early petition paperwork. If you hadn't done that the odds are they would have found it out anyway, then you'd be accused of fraud and you could forget her coming to America. You did not make a mistake with that, buddy. Another thing that crosses my mind that could help with the wait....you put in for a petition that would net her a 2 year green card. With an extra wait you could wind up with an IR-1 at her POE. IR-1 is the KING man, no more dealing with stupid f'ing government idiots (and I'm being nice here when I contain my thoughts on our government like that...LOL).

 

IHP has the worst of it so far with their wait. I feel for him and the others in their wait....it's only a small consolation but at least they have been approved at the interview. I am certain they all will get their visas in their hands. I will be so happy for them all to see their successes.

 

Keep your and her spirits up Doug. You can't get around this, but you WILL get her over here. Hang tough Mopar man!!!! Go see the woman often eat some drunk shrimp and make many, and often, loud noises in the bedroom. Class action lawsuits ain't gonna change nothing...in our lifetimes.

 

Good luck to all of you.

 

tsap seui

[scovitz]

Thanks Randy for posting again the legal journal articles about the Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability. I believe you post it in response to my suggestion of Mandamus thinking that if you force the government to act and they deny a visa that you have few future options. I did read somewhere that if you apply for a K-1 and are denied that you can marry abroad and try again as a CR-1. If the CR-1 is denied then I am not sure what the other options are... Perhaps you can go to a third country and have the spouse obtain citizenship there and then try again from there.

 

Regarding the Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability in general, it sounds like it has been challenged on rare and specific cases either to challenge a part of law that may be unconstitutional or when finding that the consular officer/staff did not follow the procedures correctly. I think we could possibly have a case based on two factors: 1) that the original basis of consular non-reviewability was from racist origins which may not be too popular in modern times, and 2) that having communist party affiliation alone should not be sufficient to bar someone from entering the U.S.

 

Another path that could work is that by having non-reviewability, there is no incentive for consulates or consular officials to improve their process. No oversight and no accountability. In other countries where they do have judicial reviewability, the process is much more fair.

 

Of course, filing and pursuing cases such as this are far beyond the means of many of us. I think the best approach may be to put together some legal briefs and shop them around to find a firm that would want to take on such a case for its potential high profile nature or opportunity... Easier said than done, of course.

[dnoblett]

Well, I see I put her membership in the cover letter for the I-130 App. I just asked Fen if she has a paper or little book showing this membership and she says no, don't mention it. Of course it is too late for that now.

 

She said she can quit, so OK quit, but kind of a moot point now.

 

Not sure how anyone tracks this membership thing if no paper trail.

 

This is sad news and she did not take it very well. Does anyone get lucky at the interview and not a blue slip?

I have yet to see the consulate give a pass on CCP membership, it is required by law for the consulate to request a waiver in every case where a person is or was a member, it is one of the many things that makes an immigrant inadmissible.

 

I always advise people to not try and hide this, at any point along the way through getting green-card and even applying to be a US citizen, if DHS discovers that the immigrant misrepresented the facts, DHS can revoke residency, and even revoke citizenship, the risk is not worth it.

[scovitz]

And..... as dumb luck would have it, my fiancee and I received our P5 just now, a little over 6 months since her interview and nearlya 11 months since we began all of the immigration proceedings....