scovitz

Thanks Dan. I checked them out, but my question is not pertaining to insurance during the interim period between arrival and marriage, nor does it pertain to having social security numbers. My fiancee and daughter will have insurance retroactive from the day of arrival via a "domestic partnership" family status that my company's insurance provides. My question is about gaining health care with pre-existing conditions (that my fiancee has). I believe that the Affordable Care Act prevents discrimination based on pre-existing conditions but is that only for ACA plans or all plans? I also believe that some health plans will cover pre-existing conditions if the person was previously covered by insurance. My question is whether China has health insurance or is it recognized by insurers as providing insurance to qualify for inclusion even with a pre-existing condition? I was curious if anyone had any experience on the topic. -scovitz

What if my fiancee has a pre-existing medical condition when she arrives in the U.S. Most health insurance companies love to deny coverage based on such things unless the person had previous health insurance. Does China have the notion of health insurance? Does it qualify as previous coverage when applying for benefits? Does the Affordable Care Act (ACA) not prevent insurance companies from denying coverage? I was just curious if anyone else had experience with this set of issues. Thanks, -scovitz

Interestingly, my fiancee was in Guangzhou last week updating her medical report and she also met another women who was a CCP member but was not asked this question during the interview. Perhaps, our pleas and letters about the unbearable and unjust wait have been heard and some processes are starting to change (or at least to help make progress on the backlog). I'm very happy for Billy and family and hope everyone gets their visa soon. -scovitz

(Not sure if this is the right forum, if not please move.) My fiancee has received the P5 for her K-1 and we are preparing for her to finally arrive in the U.S. She wants to and believes she needs to quit the Communist Party (CCP). Interestingly, she cannot find a bunch of information about this. Does anyone know what is the best way to quit the Communist Party? Is there a formal process to follow? I read the CCP FAQ on this site which states that you just stop paying and then after some time you just stop being a member. Just curious if anyone had some new or recent information about this. Thanks, -scovitz

I am happy to share my method (though it may seem a bit complicated). Anyone who is interested, can private message me for the details. If I have enough time, I hope to automate the data collection and publish a broad set of the data to make this easier for everyone. If anyone has a computer programming background and is interested in running with this or contributing, please let me know. -scovitz

The P5 came via email, just a letter. Perhaps it used to come in the mail before which is why it was called Packet 5 ... since it doesn't say P5 anywhere on it, but that is how people refer to it. I'm happy to share the contents since it is boiler plate (just message me privately... it is similar to the following: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_62a14b930101kn1t.html). To answer billyc's question, you must obtain an updated Police Report and Medical Report if they have expired and submit that with the passports. Then the visa will be placed in the passports and sent back. Regarding the timing of 6 months being lucky, I do feel extremely lucky to be at this point in the process. During my research though, I have seen wildly varying times with some people with Administrative Processing receiving their issued visa as early as 6 months from the case creation date (ours will take 9 months from case creation once the visa is in hand, 6 months from submitting CCP paperwork at the interview). I then saw several people receiving visas per week for visas that were periodically updated (and not stalled for greater than 3 months). Of the remaining people with the same creation date as my fiancee I saw slow but steady progress and estimated that we would likely hear something by the end of June. Of course, the pace is only an estimate and there is no way to know which of the people remaining will be selected first. If this does not make sense, please ask. I am happy to share the methodology for estimating (and am hoping to automate the stat collection in the future). -scovitz

Yes, in the P5 packet, it says if it has expired you must receive a new medical exam and report. -scovitz

Hello, My fiancee's visa has advanced to the state where she needs to send her passport to receive the visa. The P5 instructions say to update the Document Delivery Address via the ustraveldocs website. I have tried every which way, but no matter what I do when we login, there is no way to see or update this address. Does anyone know how to do this? Must I call them on the phone for help? Thanks -scovitz

Hello, My fiancee just received her P5 (Packet #5) email telling her to get a new Police Certificate, Medical Exam and to submit her passport via CITIC bank. I am curious though. She must go to Guangzhou to finish her medical exam anyway. While she is there, can she just submit her passport to the consulate in person? Will this save time? Can they place the visa then or will they need to return it via CITIC bank? Has anyone tried this approach? Thanks for your help, -scovitz

And..... as dumb luck would have it, my fiancee and I received our P5 just now, a little over 6 months since her interview and nearlya 11 months since we began all of the immigration proceedings....

Thanks Randy for posting again the legal journal articles about the Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability. I believe you post it in response to my suggestion of Mandamus thinking that if you force the government to act and they deny a visa that you have few future options. I did read somewhere that if you apply for a K-1 and are denied that you can marry abroad and try again as a CR-1. If the CR-1 is denied then I am not sure what the other options are... Perhaps you can go to a third country and have the spouse obtain citizenship there and then try again from there. Regarding the Doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability in general, it sounds like it has been challenged on rare and specific cases either to challenge a part of law that may be unconstitutional or when finding that the consular officer/staff did not follow the procedures correctly. I think we could possibly have a case based on two factors: 1) that the original basis of consular non-reviewability was from racist origins which may not be too popular in modern times, and 2) that having communist party affiliation alone should not be sufficient to bar someone from entering the U.S. Another path that could work is that by having non-reviewability, there is no incentive for consulates or consular officials to improve their process. No oversight and no accountability. In other countries where they do have judicial reviewability, the process is much more fair. Of course, filing and pursuing cases such as this are far beyond the means of many of us. I think the best approach may be to put together some legal briefs and shop them around to find a firm that would want to take on such a case for its potential high profile nature or opportunity... Easier said than done, of course.

billyc, I have no problem answering your questions. My petition was started in Aug 2013, NVC case created in Oct 2013, my fiancee's GUZ interview was in Dec 2013. Like many here, I read everything I could possibly read and she submitted paperwork (resume, statements, etc) immediately upon being served the Administrative Processing blue slip. Been waiting 6 months so far... I also read how the process should take place at the state department, but speaking with my immigration lawyer (second one ) he believes that most of the investigation occurs at the consulate. In any case, nothing in this modern age should take 6 months let alone 8 months, 10 months, or greater. You do a search in a computer or drop some emails to people or make some phone calls. From what I have been able to determine, the administrative processing time used to take 2-3 months but in 2013 in grew to 8-10 months (on average). I somehow feel that some parts of the overall process were streamlined which generated a backlog for this process. Who knows what is actually going on behind the scenes... I have not been able to determine this despite the myriad of ways I have tried to contact anyone affiliated with the process. The other oddity is while there are updates to cases made weekly and many visas are issued weekly many are handled out of order. My feeling on this is that some cases get blocked unnecessarily. It is unclear whether they are waiting on the applicant to act or the consulate. Or if the paperwork submitted leads to different sorts of investigations that have nonuniform needs and hence nonuniform timeframes. If it was a standard process, one would imagine consistent timeframes and in order acceptance/denial. I feel for you billyc since you are just starting this processing and wishing there was some way to short circuit it, but no one has figured out such a way to do this. And lhp, I totally feel for you too. Reaching a year's delay with no status is extreme. Yet without data, we don't know if you are in the 1% case, 10% case, or 50% case. Going in person to the consulate to demand answers may not get you anywhere. They are pretty good about 'not' answering any direct questioning via phone or web form. I think most of us would do anything to get to talk to a real person and find out what is going on, yet it is an investigation so they don't need to reveal anything. I like the idea of the FOIA requests, but I wonder how specific your request needs to be and what they are likely to 'share' with you. Then once you have this information, what will you ultimately do with it? In order for the government to improve their process or to receive greater staffing they may need legislation or direction from their leadership. This is unlikely to come without significant influence, pressure, or media scrutiny. The thing that is the most likely to succeed (though I have only heard of a few cases of people trying it) is issuing a Mandamus order in Federal Court to force the government to act after unreasonable delay. Some immigration lawyers feel that unreasonable delay means 2 years but my current lawyer says we can do it at any time I am ready to move forward. I am not sure how much it costs (though I think it is not cheap) and I heard it can take a minimum of 4-6 months to get your day in court, but you will get that day and a decision on your case will be made. The other challenge that I see is that many people involved with immigration proceedings are fearful of going after the government for fear it will affect their current or future cases. I think this is why there is such little back and forth or involvement among readers of this site (or other sites). I estimate that there are thousands of people currently in this same situation (though I need get complete numbers, not just estimates). Also, once people receive their visa, they are likely quick to move on to the next battle and leave this one behind. To make lasting change, it will take a concerted effort over a significant amount of time. However, we are not alone... Other forms of legal immigration and green cards can involve 6-10 year waits but at least they get to be together as a family while waiting in the U.S. So I would be very interested to know the results of any FOIA requests you make... My approach is to try and collect statistics to hopefully inform people before getting into this situation or give them reasonable expectations once in the process. I think if I were to do it again, I would get married and live in China while the processing was going on so I could always be together with my significant other regardless of how long the processing would take. My current situation does not allow that to happen so I must be apart from my loved one like many of you. I am hopeful though that our time for approval will come near, but that remains to be seen. Stay positive, scovitz

Hi billyc. There are many others (I'd estimate easily over a 1000 currently) in your situation (including myself). Everyone does their homework and the best you can do is submit your paperwork to the consular officer immediately upon receipt of the blue administrative processing form. After that all you can do is wait. Many like myself have tried contacting senators, congressman, state department officials, etc, to get standard canned responses that they are doing everything they can. In fact, that may be true, everything they can with limited resources. The investigations the consulate performs vary from person to person (waiting for a piece of info or specific inquiry to complete), so people will receive their visas post AP at random intervals. It does appear that the minimum currently (in the absolute best case) is roughly 5 months post paperwork submission. It is more commonly over this time period (I am trying to collect data on this.) From what I have seen/heard, updates happen every week and visas are issues every week just at a slow pace. You cannot gain any insight due to these being investigations. The only thing I have heard that can speed things up is to file a Mandamus claim to force the government to act. I believe this is expensive and at its fastest takes 4 months. Beyond that, foreign relatives of U.S. citizens have few rights and due process is only considered for criminal cases (not legal immigration). What I think could work (long term, not short term) would be to get true complete data on wait times and consular staffing. Then highlight inefficiencies when comparing visas processed per consular site per the number of staff. Then somehow lobby the government to add additional staffing to GUZ. For a family situation, I think you will want to (if possible) find a way to live with your significant other/child since the delay can vary widely.

lhp, You are exactly correct. I don't believe they are processing folks in a random order or necessarily out of order. I believe what is happening is that the consulate is severely understaffed and likely has a very manual process for these investigations. As a result, different aspects of various investigations take longer than others depending on where your fiancee is from, who they need to speak with, etc. Of course, this is mostly conjecture since the consulate offers less than zero transparency into any aspect of this process. I believe this is done not to "tip off" investigations but leaves folks like us severely in the dark. I have done some poking around and from what I can tell things are moving. People who have been on administrative processing are issued visas every week at a steady rate. I don't have the full estimated numbers yet but I am working on something. In the meantime, I am curious if anyone has considered or actually tried to file a Mandamus claim in a U.S. District Court against the consulate. What this does is force the government (or the district court judge) to make a decision based on the information they have today. This can end the waiting period for certain, but I am curious if anyone has tried it and what was the outcome of such a legal proceeding. -scovitz

FYI... I received the following response from Guangzhou via my immigration lawyer and a similar response via Senator and Congresswoman: "Thank you for your email. Ms. XX’s case is currently under administrative processing in accordance with section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. This is necessary to verify Ms. XX’s qualification for the visa. Administrative processing often lasts about 150 days, but in some instances it can take significantly longer. Once we have completed our administrative processing, we will contact Ms. XX with the result and subsequent instructions to continue processing her visa. Sincerely, Immigrant Visa Unit U.S. Consulate General Guangzhou" While this is slightly more information, it still doesn't make me any more confident that the consulate is making progress. Especially when we have 4 people on our waiting list who are well past 150 days and a couple more approaching it. There just has to be a better way to get through to someone there. Does anyone have any contact info for anyone in the consulate?