Name the 2 greatest Presidents of the 20th century

[Bobby]

D'oh, there goes my reading comprehension..

 

ok, then kennedy gets bumped up to first place.. I'll figure out a second..

[Jim - Portland, USA]

I used to be a Republican, then Bush happened, arghhhh!!! I heard that Bush was able to add another 1 trillion dollars to our deficit in the past 5 months alone, arghhh!!! Yeah, sure it's easy to appear to be a great President (Reagan) when everything you do is on a borrowed dime ... why do Republicans always run up huge deficits and yet the Democrats get blamed for big spending??? [steam slowing disapating from ears] [/Republican rant off]

 

I think Clinton rocked. He is why I turned Demo Many great things happened on his watch, who cares if he got a little forbidden yum-yum in the Oval office, how does that affect me? He did way more than balance the budget - he created a budget SURPLUS, put vast stretches of land under federal protection, cleaned up our environment, achieved big gains in national employment, kept inflation low or non-existant, interest rates dropped (great for home owners, bad for retirees, I know). Great foreign policy too ... America experienced the longest period of peace while he was in office than any other president. And ... nearly all the economic indicators confirm that America experienced the longest stretch of continuous economic prosperity while he was in ofice too (lowest unemployed in modern times, lowest inflation in 30 years, highest rate of home ownership, lowest crime rates), he opened up international trade laws, and here comes my cold-hearted Republicanism, he ended welfare as we know it. If all that was a result of some occassional yum-yum in the White House, thank you Monica for your dutiful services to our country!

 

But my most favorite has to be FDR. Job creation, banking reforms, instilled the notion of corporate responsibility, abolished the gold standard, taxed the rich ... he was elected to office for four consecutive terms, who didn't like him? But of course ... the #1 reason why I think he was one of our nations finest ... without a doubt, his leadership through WWII is truly what made our nation great. No event in the 20th century beats our victory in WWII in terms of "greatness". Of course the genuine honor of defeating our enemies goes to our brave soldiers who actually did the ass-kicking (and to the Rosie Riverters who supported them), but I'm not so sure someone like Carter would have gotten us through WWII.

 

Nixon? Uhm, yeah, I suppose the Vietnam war did end on his watch, but it also became a lot worse on his watch too. When he first came to office (1968), he's the one who made the war a more terrible thing than it was before. He's the one who escalated the war and raised the stakes of the war, only later to recognize our defeat and hence call an end to it. Difficult to call an impeached President a good one (whoops, that's what happend to Clinton, haha!). But he did a great job of warming up relations with both China and also Russia (to a lesser extent).

[chinadave2001]

I honestly do not believe that these presidents should receive either blame or credit for failing or prospering ecomomies. History has cleary shown that capitalistic ecomomies will have cyclical nature to them...periods of propserity followed by "corrections..." Are you really so sure that Clinton was repsonsible for the ecomomic boom? or what it Reagans' tax cuts of the eighties and the deregulation of various industries that eventually paid off? Is Bush jr really reponsible for the last three years? Seems to me that this ship steers itself regardless of who the captain is.....Jimmy Carter inherited one hell of an ecomic mess and paid for with his presidency. Hell, JFK was the first of the supply siders AKA trickle down advocates.. ... Anyway, I guess I am saying that this is way more complex than many think.

My two jiao.

CD

[MarkLuvsShuPing]

I look not at the economic state of the Union, I agree with CD on that issue, but the effect the president had on the national psyche. All presidents have had their dark sides, either their own personal or through their administration. Reagan had Iran-Contra, Kennedy had Marilyn, Clinton had, (no, not Monica), Paula. It's the nature of the position to let it effect their judgement.

 

No president is 100% responsible for the policies and laws and economy that goes on during their administration, it's a collaborative effort. Where the rubber meets the road is in the public's overall attitude.

 

FDR was great in that he helped the country feel good about itself and recover from the great depression and WWII. Kennedy got us in the space race and challenged us to be the world leader that we thought we were. Reagan took us to that shining city upon the hill.

 

Conversely, Johnson got lynched by a country in turmoil over an unjust war. Carter came off as a wimp because the country needing to blame someone for corrupt politics, the economy and the Iranian hostages. Clinton divided the country so severely that the Gore/Bush race came down to a few hanging chads. Bush, like our country, has had an up and down ride while the country fears, first it's own indecision and then a threat from outside and now another ugly and, apparently, unjust war.

 

Presidents make those life and death, global decisions and they should be judged on how well those decisions panned out, because those decisions effect the national psyche and the course of history.

 

How many of you remember thinking on 9-11 "Damn, I'm glad Bush won and not Gore". Now how many think he's evil because he jumped on Iraq without a real reason? How many opinions would change if, tomorrow, they found the infamous WMD in Iraq or Wall Street jumped a rocket to all time highs for 6 months? What if DHS thwarted a terrorist attack that would've made 9-11 look insignificant?

 

The presidents are a reflection of the country's mood. Clinton was allowed to rise above the law and deny another citizen her civic rights because we, as a nation, cared more about who's to blame than the truth. Reagan got away with diverting money for his own agenda, despite congress disagreeing with him, just because the Soviet Union was crumbling and the US was high on the global hill.

 

I still say Reagan and Clinton were the most important because they are opposite sides of the same corrupt coin. They are the sins that our children will pay for and that will impact our country the most in the long run.

 

OK, leaving the soapbox now. Next?!!!

[keelec]

Hey Don,

 

Calm down.....

 

Move away from that delete button....

 

So far, I think everyone has been able to express their own opinions rather civilly. Ok, so some people like old presidents with lots of hair dye.... Some don't.

 

I actually find the discussion quite interesting. Each person sees a different perspective.

 

Yes, I do believe that there is a certain amount of "Momentum" in the economy. If I remember right, there were major economic issues under Bush-1. However, by the time Clinton took office, the economy was running away from him (probably caused by something late in Bush-1's term). It is likely that the economy was already crashing when Bush-2 took office. And, more than likely, the economy will be booming early in the next presidential term, no matter who is in office.

 

And, 9/11 would have happened no matter who was president. Who was in office when the terrorists had enrolled in flight school here in the USA?

 

Although I would definately rank FDR in the top half dozen presidents from the last 2 centuries, he was also the father of the tremendous growth of the federal government in the last half century, as well as the father of the budget deficit and the National Debt. Everythign good, and everything bad with Social Security was also invented during his administration.

 

----- Clifford -----

[Dave G.]

I'm beginning to wonder if the Rumpus Room was really a good idea. I would have deleted this long ago in the Visa Dealy forum.

Picture sizes, and now fingers on the delete key???? Are you having a Pamprin moment???

[se_lang]

I'm beginning to wonder if the Rumpus Room was really a good idea. I would have deleted this long ago in the Visa Dealy forum.

thats because it belongs in the Rumpus Room not in visa delays

[Jim - Portland, USA]

I look not at the economic state of the Union, I agree with CD on that issue, but the effect the president had on the national psyche.  All presidents have had their dark sides, either their own personal or through their administration.  Reagan had Iran-Contra, Kennedy had Marilyn, Clinton had, (no, not Monica), Paula.  It's the nature of the position to let it effect their judgement.

 

No president is 100% responsible for the policies and laws and economy that goes on during their administration, it's a collaborative effort.  Where the rubber meets the road is in the public's overall attitude.  

 

FDR was great in that he helped the country feel good about itself and recover from the great depression and WWII.  Kennedy got us in the space race and challenged us to be the world leader that we thought we were.  Reagan took us to that shining city upon the hill.

 

Conversely, Johnson got lynched by a country in turmoil over an unjust war.  Carter came off as a wimp because the country needing to blame someone for corrupt politics, the economy and the Iranian hostages.  Clinton divided the country so severely that the Gore/Bush race came down to a few hanging chads.  Bush, like our country, has had an up and down ride while the country fears, first it's own indecision and then a threat from outside and now another ugly and, apparently, unjust war.

 

Presidents make those life and death, global decisions and they should be judged on how well those decisions panned out, because those decisions effect the national psyche and the course of history.  

 

How many of you remember thinking on 9-11 "Damn, I'm glad Bush won and not Gore".  Now how many think he's evil because he jumped on Iraq without a real reason?  How many opinions would change if, tomorrow, they found the infamous WMD in Iraq or Wall Street jumped a rocket to all time highs for 6 months?  What if DHS thwarted a terrorist attack that would've made 9-11 look insignificant?  

 

The presidents are a reflection of the country's mood.  Clinton was allowed to rise above the law and deny another citizen her civic rights because we, as a nation, cared more about who's to blame than the truth.  Reagan got away with diverting money for his own agenda, despite congress disagreeing with him, just because the Soviet Union was crumbling and the US was high on the global hill.

 

I still say Reagan and Clinton were the most important because they are opposite sides of the same corrupt coin.  They are the sins that our children will pay for and that will impact our country the most in the long run.

 

OK, leaving the soapbox now.  Next?!!!

Well said Mark, I think you hit the "mark" on many good points!

[warpedbored]

I'm beginning to wonder if the Rumpus Room was really a good idea. I would have deleted this long ago in the Visa Dealy forum.

Picture sizes, and now fingers on the delete key???? Are you having a Pamprin moment???

Pamprin is a better subject than politics.

 

You could be right, Dave. Even thought the Rumpus Room is "open", members do need to stay civil. It looked like this one was set to go astray. As long as the subject matter and not the member is opined, no problems.

 

 

Since you asked, a long time ago when I worked at the U, I had a headache that would kill a horse. I asked around if anyone had any asprin and one gal gave me a couple of pills. Worked like a charm. Then she told me they were Pamprins, so I stopped at the store on the way home and picked up some tampons.

I'm busting a gut here Don. Very funny.

[chinadave2001]

Here's the complete list of 20th century Presidents:

 

Theodore Roosevelt, 1901-1909

William H. Taft, 1909-1913

Woodrow Wilson, 1913-1921

Warren G. Harding, 1921-1923

Calvin Coolidge, 1923-1929

Herbert Hoover, 1929-1933

Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1933-1945

Harry S. Truman, 1945-1953

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1953-1961

John F. Kennedy, 1961-1963

Lyndon B. Johnson, 1963-1969

Richard M. Nixon, 1969-1974

Gerald R. Ford, 1974-1977

Jimmy Carter, 1977-1981

Ronald Reagan, 1981-1989

George Bush, 1989-1993

Bill Clinton, 1993- 2001

 

CD

[chinadave2001]

I think it's interesting that nobody has suggested Woodrow Wilson. He is the architect of the Treaty of Versailles and and league of Nations, The UN's daddy.....Most importantly, he was the first president to use American troops in Europe thus establishing the USA as a world power. Moreover, he brought the world the idea of "popular sovereignty" or self-determination, meaning that people should be free to choose their own form of government.....maybe he was not the best president as many would define it but he certainly was one of the most influential.

CD