The Biggest Problem Facing the US

[hakkamike]

Another link from NY Times discussing Ameican companies (especially in the clean energy sector) moving to China for R&D and manuf.

 

This is one of the justifications given by the American companies:

 

American companies are drawn to China for its expanding market, and its large pool of cheap, highly skilled engineers.

 

The good ones cost the same and in some cases more than an American engineer. The cheap and highly skilled are two words that do not go together.

 

Xi'an, in central China, has 47 universities and other institutions of higher education. In China, engineers with a master's degree can be hired for $730 a month.

 

That is about 5,000 RMB per month and BS. Besides that they have the degree on paper. What they actually learned, if they even went, is a whole different story.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/1...h-ss_index.html

 

I hear that. Chinese university education is highly dubious. One night, while Spring Cleaning, my wife came across a box of my old college books.

 

Keep in mind for the remainder of this story: My wife has two Bachelors degrees and a Masters.

 

She was amazed at the size of the books. "What is this? Do Americans use one book for their whole college or something?"

 

"No," I replied, "Each of those represents one semester."

 

"You mean six months?"

 

"Three months."

 

"OMG! Do you do the whole book?"

 

"Usually. But sometimes a professor will skip a chapter or two."

 

"That's crazy! In China and Japan, the book is about this thick," here she indicates a width of about three-eighths of an inch, "And we only really finish about half of it."

 

What I find to be the major difference between Eastern and Western education (true of China, Korea, India, and Japan. Mostly China, and a lot less India, but a little bit India), is that Western education focuses on problem solving and self reliance. Eastern education is based mostly on "In this situation do that. Now practice doing it so you can do it really fast."

 

I remember my organic chemistry final at GMI. They gave me a cup of clear liquid, a lab, and 45 minutes and said, "Figure out what this stuff is. The answer will be 45% of your grade. Go." (Mine turned out to be a propyl alcohol).

 

Japanese and Chinese engineers I've met didn't take organic chemistry. Folks from India and Korea took it, but there was no lab. My theory is that, the powers that be in some of these countries want to have technical people who don't think for themselves.

 

Just think: In the West, 60% of people who enter college don't finish. In the East, it's harder to get in to college, but if you get in, you pretty much finish.

 

And no, as long as we have sufficient domestic capacity, even if we become economically isolated, I will still have some Salad Sprinkles.

The last time I saw any figures it was 24% only finish their 4 year degree

[shenzhen]

Interesting points Minister, but in K-12 in China its totally the opposite.

 

My girls are in Mandarin immersion but after many years, they are not up to par with Chinese, (they participate in student exchange) while their Chinese counterpart are far more fluent, and competent in speaking, reading and writing English. the Chinese are also more advanced in math and science at the same age.

 

If China figures out how to properly conduct secondary education (more creative, more independent thinking) the last advantage the US has, falls..

True but they have to clean up the corruption issue first.

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2010-...ent_9657458.htm

[Minister]

Interesting points Minister, but in K-12 in China its totally the opposite.

 

My girls are in Mandarin immersion but after many years, they are not up to par with Chinese, (they participate in student exchange) while their Chinese counterpart are far more fluent, and competent in speaking, reading and writing English. the Chinese are also more advanced in math and science at the same age.

 

If China figures out how to properly conduct secondary education (more creative, more independent thinking) the last advantage the US has, falls..

 

It may be true. But, as long as the Chinese government wants to maintain their current level of control over the population, it will never be in their best interest to foster an intelligent and free thinking middle class.

 

At least for the foreseeable future, I would expect more of the same.

[Guest jin979]

Interesting points Minister, but in K-12 in China its totally the opposite.

 

My girls are in Mandarin immersion but after many years, they are not up to par with Chinese, (they participate in student exchange) while their Chinese counterpart are far more fluent, and competent in speaking, reading and writing English. the Chinese are also more advanced in math and science at the same age.

 

If China figures out how to properly conduct secondary education (more creative, more independent thinking) the last advantage the US has, falls..

 

It may be true. But, as long as the Chinese government wants to maintain their current level of control over the population, it will never be in their best interest to foster an intelligent and free thinking middle class.

 

At least for the foreseeable future, I would expect more of the same.

 

 

what nonsense

 

China has a very intelligent and free thinkng working class.

 

what we dont need is your class system

[warpedbored]

American educational system encourages free thinking. China's educational system is taught by rote. Memorization teaches the student how to solve the problem but not why it is a problem. In this sense I think the American system is better.

[slw268]

American educational system encourages free thinking. China's educational system is taught by rote. Memorization teaches the student how to solve the problem but not why it is a problem. In this sense I think the American system is better.

Tread softly my friend

[warpedbored]

Average years of schooling of adults by country.

#1 USA 12 years

#45 PRC 6.4 years

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

[amberjack1234]

As far as education differences between America and China I believe that we are on this one. There are those here that think that the Chinese have the best education system and then there are those that think America has the best education system. I have had several serious disagreemen in the past with other members here on this subject and so far know I don't believe that anyone has changed their minds one way or the other.

 

I will simply say that it my opinion that America has the best education system. We do have member/members here that live in China and send their college age children to America for their education. This is just my opinion with nothing more than my personal observations which is not much proof. I have never been to school in China nor have I taught school in China but I know a lot of folks that have and I listen to them and form my opinion based on what the majority of them say. and I talk to my wife on this matter often.

 

Larry

[slw268]

When I taught at two different yet pretty famous and government run universities in China I was not allowed to NOT pass any student for any reason.

[david_dawei]

Average years of schooling of adults by country.

#1 USA 12 years

#45 PRC 6.4 years

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

however expensive, americans can afford it (or the loans). I'd be more interested in the education from 10-18; the formative years that makes adults. What's the average hour per week?

[david_dawei]

As for Qi Gong, actually I think most traditional Chinese exercises include it, since part of Qi Gong is to adjust breathing, as most traditional chinese exercise do.

Been very busy traveling.... but I see my student has the gist of it; Good breath-Good body. enjoy life.

[shenzhen]

Average years of schooling of adults by country.

#1 USA 12 years

#45 PRC 6.4 years

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

however expensive, americans can afford it (or the loans). I'd be more interested in the education from 10-18; the formative years that makes adults. What's the average hour per week?

I can already tell you the Chinese students go to school more hours/week. However hours/week does not mean better education. The experience I have is that they can recite facts and how to answer/solve a problem "just like the one they had in class" but to apply the concepts and develop a resolution to a problem that is different that anything they have seen before is asking for a lot.

 

Having said that, I can see in my children's education in the US that they do are being taught more memorization and less analytical thinking/problem solving. Of course when your budget depends on "No Child Left Behind" testing then one can understand this insane shift in American education.

[david_dawei]

Average years of schooling of adults by country.

#1 USA 12 years

#45 PRC 6.4 years

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

however expensive, americans can afford it (or the loans). I'd be more interested in the education from 10-18; the formative years that makes adults. What's the average hour per week?

I can already tell you the Chinese students go to school more hours/week. However hours/week does not mean better education. The experience I have is that they can recite facts and how to answer/solve a problem "just like the one they had in class" but to apply the concepts and develop a resolution to a problem that is different that anything they have seen before is asking for a lot.

 

Having said that, I can see in my children's education in the US that they do are being taught more memorization and less analytical thinking/problem solving. Of course when your budget depends on "No Child Left Behind" testing then one can understand this insane shift in American education.

Yes, I already knew that.... that was part of my point; number of hours/weeks/years does not always mean better. I was partly facetious. I agree, it is an issue of rote vs critical thinking.

 

Despite they are a "do" oriented people, they are a 'follower' nation.

[Minister]

what we dont need is your class system

 

The system in any country is the same. There are only two classes; The owners and the "wage-slaves". China has finally learned the Western concept of "Bread and Circuses" to control the mob, but the mob is still the mob and the rulers are still the rulers. People can be oppressed just as easily with mortgages as with tanks. When the glitter fades, you'll understand. And those Burberry slacks will become your prison clothes.

[Guest jin979]

what we dont need is your class system

 

The system in any country is the same. There are only two classes; The owners and the "wage-slaves". China has finally learned the Western concept of "Bread and Circuses" to control the mob, but the mob is still the mob and the rulers are still the rulers. People can be oppressed just as easily with mortgages as with tanks. When the glitter fades, you'll understand. And those Burberry slacks will become your prison clothes.

 

 

I have no argument with you Minister, except most westerns want to believe they are apart of a "middle class" above workers, but mini capitalists, unfortunatly these are the people that live on credit and/or have suffured the most as western capatilism crumbles.