Prenuptial Agreements?

[keelec]

I have a question that I have been wondering about for a while. When I invite Irina here to the USA, she will essentially be bringing nothing but herself and a couple of suitcases.

 

I am not rich, but I have acquired both assets and debts throughout my life. I will continue to have reasonably good earning potential in the future and will likely inherit some money from my grandparents in the next couple of decades.

 

If things do not work out, I do not want to put Irina out on the street penniless. But, on the other hand, I don't want to loose all of my assets while keeping the debts, and to pay alimony too.

 

How have others approached the question of a prenuptial agreements? Does anybody know if Chinese or Russians commonly have similar agreements?

 

Thanks,

Clifford

[Guest Se_Lang]

I seen someting on this in another post an asked my MM her thoughts and luckly hers and mine match, I feel if I did not trust her enough to do the right thing with out paper then maybe marriage is not best, but also I am not a rich man and dont have a great deal to lose. She said they have same thing in China but she also did not like it. I think it is something each individual and couple need to work out. ask yourself this what do you value more the love of a good woman or a bunch of material assets, how old are you can you rebuild if she does clean you out, can you live with the fact she signs paper cause she loves you but resents what paper stands for(failure). It is a lot to think about and think about it a lot you should.

 

Disclaimer:

"I am not a lawyer and never played one on TV"http://www.gabthis.com/images/8.gif

[Guest sanfranciscojoe]

well...I am a lawyer. it's all about choice. some people say love makes it unnecessary. to me that sounds like a person who has never been divorced, or has little in controversy. The fact is that 50% of marriages end in divorce. Those of us who are divorced never thought it would happen to us. It did. It will happen to half of us here, if not more given the added difficulties of culture, familial seperation and so forth.

Others say thay are not worth the paper they are written on. That's news to me and not the law in California. Barry Bonds' pre-nup was recently enforced against claims that "i dont speak the language", "i didnt understand it", blah blah blah. If your fiance does not have sufficient english skills send her to a lawyer who speaks her language and have him advise her.

I know someone very well who married "the greatest woman in the world". they had nothing. she didnt work, but she ran up 20K+ in credit card debt. 7 years later, she split and he almost lost his house. He had to use his inheritance to buy her out so he didnt have to move into a one br apartment. He had to fire his lawyer because the legal fees, hers and his, were bankrupting him. This is not an unusual story. He failed to protect himself. At 50, he was nearly ruined.

Let me suggest an intermediate approach. Have a pre-nup, but tear it up after some time. If you prefer, put a sunset clause in it, making it of no effect after a certain time, perhaps 10 years depending on your age.

Good luck to the starry-eyed lovers among us!

[carhil24]

Well, I guess I am going to fall under the category of "starry-eyed lover", and unfortunately I have been divorced and through it all once before, and I do live in California, but I am not a lawyer (though my half-brother is a judge. Does that count? ) I still believe that starting off a marriage with a prenup is like telling your wife to be, "Honey, you know I trust you with all of my mind, my heart, and my soul, but would it be a problem for you if I asked you to wear this chasity belt?" Or, "Honey, I know it was God who brought us together, and that our love is destined to last forever, but you know, even God is not perfect, and well, forever is not forever." I just tend to think that a marriage with a prenup is off to a very shaky and unstable beginning, and right off the bat it makes it clear that the level of trust between the couple is not at the level it should be for this type of life-changing commitment. But who am I to say, I still believe that Mary Poppins can fly!

[Mick]

I think this pre-nuptial issue is totally at the discretion of each individual couple. However, what I want to say is that if the American in the couple wants a pre-nup, he or she should be very sensitive in terms of how it is explained to the Chinese partner in the couple. Much misunderstanding can stem from this, much of it due to cultural differences.

 

Li and I had no pre-nuptial agreement. We met in China and lived there together for many years. It never was an issue for us, and will not be an issue. (Too late anyway as we are post-nuptual ). However, I am not saying it is not the right thing for others. It is an individual matter that must be dealt with in a very sensitive and compassionate mannerr.

[Robert S.]

This question for keelec is different than what it would be for most people because he is going to inherit money and if there were any land involved the need for a prenup would be way more.

[warpedbored]

As I recall your fiance is Russian isn't she? Totally different culture than China. I have no idea how they might view the matter. I can see both sides of the issue but if you have a lot to lose I would lean towards the pre nup considering the divorce rate in this country. Bing and I don't have one but after my first marriage I don't have all that much in assets to take anyway. I doubt she would want half of my mortgage lol. One could make the arguement that "if you really love me and we are going to be together forever it won't make any difference anyway". Of course she is likely to counter with "then we don't need one". It would be a tough one to put on the table though. I feel for you, I'm glad I don't have to put that one out there.

Carl

[frank1538]

You might want to consider the domestic relations laws in your particular state. In many states, pre marital assets remain the separate assets of the respective spouses (more common in the eastern US than in the West).

 

Alimony is becoming less and less of an issue, particularly when both spouses are working, and child support is often determined pursuant to statutory guidelines.

 

I am not fond of pre nups, but I understand people's concerns about the division of assets, alimony, and support should a marriage go south.

[Bob & Minglian]

Last night I treated myself to a movie, Intolerable Cruelty, with George Clooney and Catherine Zeta-Jones. George played the role of a well-known lawyer noted for authoring the "iron-clad" prenuptial agreement. Interesting, especially in light of the topic posted today.

 

For me, I did not have a prenuptial agreement with Minglian. We were married in China. Although I've been through divorce and lost material assets and a lot of money because of it there's still no way I would enter a marriage with a prenup. Now, if I were rolling in money and stood to inherit even more, I may entertain the thought. A couple's best intentions to stay married forever, live the happily-ever-after life, may not be what one or both are feeling a few years later.

 

And yes, the divorce rate in the U.S. is now more than 50 percent. Hmm. So, since I've already been divorced, my odds of staying married for the rest of my life must be much higher than 50 percent. I mean, I've already contributed to that statistic. No more divorce for me!

 

Bob

[Dave G.]

Last time this came up it was a rather lively topic.

Here we go again! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/p/2talk.gif

 

All the thoughts shared make a lot of sense. There's the emotional, the financial, the legal, and self-protective offered so far. How everyone prioritizes them is up to each individual. For me, I have a solution that encompasses them all.

 

Before my first trip to SE Asia, I realized I was going to a potentially dangerous part of the world (seems I spent a few days next to an Al Qaeda training camp...oops!). Just in case, I went through the process of establishing a trust for the few assets I have. As a part of the trust, a will was also created.

 

Well, it was on that trip I met Jing Mei in Hong Kong. Now -- a year later -- everything has changed. I am currently working with my attorney to redraft the trust and will to give everything to JM, her son, and our future child(ren). It will be enacted the day we marry. As my future family, they deserve to inherit what little I have scraped together in this life. So, I've covered the emotional, legal, and financial arguments stated in this thread thus far.

 

But, what about the self-protective? Guess what....that's covered too! Nevada (like CA) is a community property State. What I bring to the marriage (my personal assets) always stay with me regardless of a possible divorce. What personal assets she brings stays with her. (Let's face it, folks -- USCs have a strong advantage over our Chinese loved ones.) By establishing the trust, I've "marked my territory" regarding personal assets prior to marriage. They are all spelled out and clearly documented. If JM decides she wants to divorce me (or vice versa), State law will grant her only 50% of the assets WE build together -- our community property. Naturally, alimony and child support are different issues, but as far as "cleaning me out," it can't happen.

 

The trust and will also give me "power." I can revise them anytime I wish, just as I am doing now. If things get messy after the marriage, I can change it all with one phone call and a few signatures. The law gives me that right. I can include or exclude anyone I wish, even a spouse.

 

This is my solution to avoid a prenup. My attorney agrees that I'm well protected. When JM enters the marriage, she will know she gets everything if I croak. (Gee...hope she isn't an ax murderer http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/0/saw.gif.) As her husband, I want to do no less. But, I can change that if needs be. Depending our future income and growth of assets we mutually contribute to, she only gets half if things go sour.

 

I enter this thing with eyes wide open. I love JM with all my heart. Hence, the changes in my affairs (finances, that is http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/d/epaily.gif ). I don't look to the future with negativity. But, I know I have a safety net...just in case.

 

Oh....just so you know....inheritance is considered a personal asset even if given during the marriage. Learned that during my divorce. Even if assets are "co-mingled," you still have proof of the origin of the asset by means of the inheritance. However, the more messy the co-mingling, the harder it is to get out.

 

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney but I sure have paid to learn from mine.

[Dave G.]

Some of us will learn that we an avenue to a green card and some of the JMs will find their husbands are not who they thought.

Did I read this right??? Might we have used a different example? http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/k0/eyecrazy.gif

[Francine-gg]

I have a question that I have been wondering about for a while.  When I invite Irina here to the USA, she will essentially be bringing nothing but herself and a couple of suitcases.

 

I am not rich, but I have acquired both assets and debts throughout my life.  I will continue to have reasonably good earning potential in the future and will likely inherit some money from my grandparents in the next couple of decades.

 

If things do not work out, I do not want to put Irina out on the street penniless.  But, on the other hand, I don't want to loose all of my assets while keeping the debts, and to pay alimony too.

 

How have others approached the question of a prenuptial agreements?  Does anybody know if Chinese or Russians commonly have similar agreements?

 

Thanks,

Clifford

I feel if you even need to think of asking you future wife ,whom your making a commitment to spend the rest of your life with and share evrything with, to sign a prenuptial agreement , you really need to re-think if your ready for marriage, no girl should even consider marriage if her fiancee requests her to sign a prenup, it shows your concern is greater for material assets then your wife to be.

This subtle distrust could have severe consequences for the relationship.

When a couple makes that serious commitment to marry, two become one in life, love and material, (including material assets already existing).

 

Just my opinion.......

 

 

 

 

[Guest sanfranciscojoe]

right francine. and whatever you do, do not get homeowner's insurance because it means you are not ready to own a house.

[tywy_99]

right francine.  and whatever you do, do not get homeowner's insurance because it means you are not ready to own a house.

That's a cheap shot joe! Where do jerks like you come from?

[Guest enight]

... the topic is brought up again...

 

and.. it doesn't matter she/he is a Chinese or Russian or American,

 

once you ask for Prenuptial Agreement, she/he would have a reason to betray you someday... because you betray the love at the begining

 

good luck!