A Naive Petitioner

[Ying 'n Doug]

A Naïve (Dumb-Ass) Petitioner

 

I am almost too embarrassed to post this. I can barely believe what a fool I¡¯ve been. If you identify with any of this as you read it, RUN!, do not walk, to get some professional and informed help. You will also do yourself a big favor by reading EVERYTHING on the Jan 21, 2009 post ¡° Bonafide Relationship Issues¡± on the Interview Results subforum of the Visa Process Forum right here on CFL. (Thank you so much, David!)

 

* * * * * * *

 

I am beginning to recover from being knocked to my knees a few days ago. On break from an assignment in Mexico, I was putting some finishing touches on our modest home ¨C and looking so forward to welcoming my fianc¨¦e to it in just a few weeks. Interview day had arrived and I could not wait to hear the happy news! The plans for the trip to San Francisco to pick Ying up were all made and friends were helping to plan the wedding.

 

I logged in on Skype to see the excitement on Ying¡¯s face as we made plans for her trip home. As soon as her image came up on the screen, my heart stopped. Tears were streaming down her face. ¡°I am refused today!¡± she said. As soon as I could breathe again, I dissolved in tears too.

 

We talked for hours and cried together. I was furious. How could they do this ¨C say we did not have a bona-fide relationship? We struggled for the words to share our feelings.

 

In the last 20 months, Ying and I have struggled to learn each other¡¯s language ¨C and we¡¯ve done pretty well. We taught each other mostly on Skype, although she¡¯s taking English classes too. Our first conversations were pretty limited without the translator machine. We¡¯ve kept at it though and we¡¯re gabbing away for an hour in Chinese-English-Chinglish almost every day now. No matter where we are, we can talk if we have fast Internet connections

 

We can speak with each other, but we¡¯ve still not learned to READ each other¡¯s language. We never imagined that would be our undoing at the interview.

 

Over the next few days, we talked a lot. Bless her heart, Ying showed again why I am so blessed to have found her in all this wide world. My anger was almost without bounds. Over the course of a few days, she has helped me so much to discharge the anger and set about getting going on a new plan. I¡¯m much better now, even though the sting of this slap still hurts like hell. When I volunteered to go off to an unpopular war all those years ago, I thought I might get some consideration for that from Uncle Sam someday. Ha!

 

In the beginning, I contracted a lawyer to help out with our petition but, really, all he did was help out with the filling out of the various forms and give minimal advice. He charged quite handsomely for that service, of course. In my naivet¨¦ (read ¡°dumb-ass fog¡±) I thought I was covering the bases and had it all in hand.

 

HEADS UP #1: The price of legal counsel is no guarantee as to its quality. Research your legal help. Get references. Think you can do this on your own? God bless you. You COULD get lucky, but might very well end up like us. Petitioning for a K visa is a very long walk on a very slippery slope. Find someone who really knows what he/she is doing!

 

I am finding out that CFL is one of the best resources I could have had ¨C if only I¡¯d known about it. I was so naïve that I thought all I had to do was obey the letter of the law, pay the fees and Uncle Sam was going to help me live my most precious dream with my love. After all, I¡¯d served my country, worked hard, paid taxes ¡®til it hurt, helped to bring American companies to international prominence and generally been a model American. Surely that should accrue some access to help with bringing my fianc¨¦ home to live. How bloody naïve.

 

We¡¯ve put together a transcript of the interview now. We had all the required documents and more. No problem there. Ying was immediately intimidated by the VO, although I don¡¯t think I should go into the reasons for that here. Having gone over the account of the interview in great detail several times, it sounds as if some very big cultural mis-latches were involved. The bottom line is that she was terrified at the outset.

 

HEADS UP #2: The interview is the meeting of two cultures; we need to prepare our wife or fianc¨¦ for that. I work in technology transfer all over the world. I¡¯ve am so used to preparing for inter-cultural differences in first meetings that I don¡¯t even really think about it anymore ¨C I just prepare for it as a matter of course. I was incredibly naïve not to have seen how that might apply at Ying¡¯s visa interview. She¡¯s so comfortable with me and all our Chinese friends. It just didn¡¯t occur to me.

 

Now, your wife or fianc¨¦e may have had lots of contact with Americans and feel very comfortable with anyone, but if that¡¯s not the case - heads up!

 

The VO asked my fianc¨¦e several perfunctory questions about me, my family, how we had met, how many times I had been to China and then she pulled out one of my letters to Ying and asked her what it said. Ying replied: ¡°I don¡¯t know. Only Doug can read it.¡± I think that is where the whole thing exploded.

 

My fianc¨¦e is one of the most honest and guileless women I have ever met. A very endearing quality, but definitely not a good position to be coming from in an 8-minute interview that will affect the next several years of your life.

 

She could have said ¡° My daughter and my best friend¡¯s son translate the letters for me. I cannot read English yet, but I know what each letter says when I receive it. My fianc¨¦ speaks to me in Chinese ¨C he is learning ¨C but he cannot write Chinese¡± ¨C or something to that effect. However, when presented with what looked to her like a deal-breaker, she just did not know what to do next ¨C for the 5 seconds or so she had to respond.

 

I have seen high-flying, multi-million dollar international business deals crash right to the ground exactly like that. However, in those cases, I or someone else was able to step in to clear up the misunderstanding and get things moving again towards an enlightened resolution. Apparently, we are not allowed any such opportunity in Guangzhou. Must be covered by the directive that ¡°Everything that is not compulsory is strictly forbidden¡±. I¡¯m going there as soon as I can to try anyway. It could be a fool¡¯s errand, but I am so much in love with Ying that I could not do otherwise.

 

Then the VO delivered her ¡°no bona-fide relationship¡± verdict. When she regained her composure, Ying tried to show her some of the other things in the heavy bag of evidences she¡¯d brought, but apparently the VO¡¯s mind was made up and she declined to look at any more evidence. .

 

HEADS UP #3: Preparation of our wives/fianc¨¦es for the interview is critical. The interview is a life-changing event. I asked Ying to be confident and just be herself at the interview. She¡¯s so charming that I thought anyone could see her sincerity. (Have you ever met a bigger dumb-ass than me?) I am now learning that there are some immigration law firms that will help coach your wife/fianc¨¦e for this most important event even if you can¡¯t be there to help. (Considering my blind ignorance, I wouldn¡¯t have been much help even if I could have been there.) If only I had known! I was so naïve that I thought this whole process was straightforward and that the Consulate had our best interests at heart. After reading the (very lengthy) portion of the Immigration Law that deals with family visas now, I find that neither the petitioner¡¯s nor the beneficiary¡¯s best interests are mentioned even once in it. The Consulate is marching to very different orders. They are looking for abuses of the law and, you know, you can easily find evidence of what you¡¯re looking for even when it is not there. Hell, you don¡¯t even really have to find them, you can just imagine them. Remember WMD?

 

The sad truth is that the burden of proof is on us, regardless of what the law says. And it can all be lost in a few seconds. The Byzantine twist is that we are not allowed to go to the interview to support our loved one with that proof as we would anywhere else in our lives.

 

One more thing I¡¯ve learned. If, God forbid, you should end up in our situation, your anger/frustration/depression/disgust and a whole list of other negative emotions will likely overwhelm you. Let it pass before you move on! Get help to get it out of your blood ¨C family, friends, whatever. Raging against the machine is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It only wears you out and it annoys the pig. I am physically sick from it. I haven¡¯t received any answers from impassioned pleas for help to Congressmen and, as the first film of my naivet¨¦ seems to be falling away, I¡¯m not pinning many hopes on that as a solution.

 

Ying and I will be together forever. The machine cannot prevent that - it can only limit some of our options temporarily. I love my country. I fought for it and have sacrificed a lot for it. It appears that the feeling is not mutual. Still a bit of bitterness left to discharge¡­

 

Right now, my plans are to get to China as soon as I can. (I haven¡¯t been able to travel there for almost a year ¨C herniated three disks in my back 2 months after my last trip to China. I have a brand new and very well studied understanding of pain. So happy that I¡¯ll be back with Ying and the family soon.) Then I¡¯m going to find a good immigration lawyer who can convince me he can help and do everything I can possibly imagine to try to get an appeal in Guangzhou. I know that¡¯s a long-odds deal, but ya gotta try.

 

I¡¯m still pretty frantic. Considering marrying in China now and then moving together to Canada or Mexico together to ride out what looks like it will be a long grind. Don¡¯t even know if that¡¯s practical yet ¨C still grasping at straws. Or moving to China to teach English for a while. I have grave doubts about that though. I don¡¯t think an English teacher¡¯s income in China is going to cut it on the Affadavit of Support that I¡¯m sure will have to be filed again. My clients would likely blackball me if I left them in the lurch. Catch 22, 23, 24 ¡­ where does it end? Need to find a good immigration lawyer soon. Maybe it¡¯s not too late.

 

¡°We are building this plane as we fly it.¡± Anonymous

 

I hope that this long story will help someone and that you¡¯ll never really know what we are going through. I¡¯m sure I still have a hell of a lot to learn. When I do, I¡¯ll pass it on. Thanks so much to all of you who are helping with my education here. The very best of luck to all!

[Ying 'n Doug]

A Naïve (Dumb-Ass) Petitioner

 

I am almost too embarrassed to post this. I can barely believe what a fool I¡¯ve been. If you identify with any of this as you read it, RUN!, do not walk, to get some professional and informed help. You will also do yourself a big favor by reading EVERYTHING on the Jan 21, 2009 post ¡° Bonafide Relationship Issues¡± on the Interview Results subforum of the Visa Process Forum right here on CFL. (Thank you so much, David!)

 

* * * * * * *

 

I am beginning to recover from being knocked to my knees a few days ago. On break from an assignment in Mexico, I was putting some finishing touches on our modest home ¨C and looking so forward to welcoming my fianc¨¦e to it in just a few weeks. Interview day had arrived and I could not wait to hear the happy news! The plans for the trip to San Francisco to pick Ying up were all made and friends were helping to plan the wedding.

 

I logged in on Skype to see the excitement on Ying¡¯s face as we made plans for her trip home. As soon as her image came up on the screen, my heart stopped. Tears were streaming down her face. ¡°I am refused today!¡± she said. As soon as I could breathe again, I dissolved in tears too.

 

We talked for hours and cried together. I was furious. How could they do this ¨C say we did not have a bona-fide relationship? We struggled for the words to share our feelings.

 

In the last 20 months, Ying and I have struggled to learn each other¡¯s language ¨C and we¡¯ve done pretty well. We taught each other mostly on Skype, although she¡¯s taking English classes too. Our first conversations were pretty limited without the translator machine. We¡¯ve kept at it though and we¡¯re gabbing away for an hour in Chinese-English-Chinglish almost every day now. No matter where we are, we can talk if we have fast Internet connections

 

We can speak with each other, but we¡¯ve still not learned to READ each other¡¯s language. We never imagined that would be our undoing at the interview.

 

Over the next few days, we talked a lot. Bless her heart, Ying showed again why I am so blessed to have found her in all this wide world. My anger was almost without bounds. Over the course of a few days, she has helped me so much to discharge the anger and set about getting going on a new plan. I¡¯m much better now, even though the sting of this slap still hurts like hell. When I volunteered to go off to an unpopular war all those years ago, I thought I might get some consideration for that from Uncle Sam someday. Ha!

 

In the beginning, I contracted a lawyer to help out with our petition but, really, all he did was help out with the filling out of the various forms and give minimal advice. He charged quite handsomely for that service, of course. In my naivet¨¦ (read ¡°dumb-ass fog¡±) I thought I was covering the bases and had it all in hand.

 

HEADS UP #1: The price of legal counsel is no guarantee as to its quality. Research your legal help. Get references. Think you can do this on your own? God bless you. You COULD get lucky, but might very well end up like us. Petitioning for a K visa is a very long walk on a very slippery slope. Find someone who really knows what he/she is doing!

 

I am finding out that CFL is one of the best resources I could have had ¨C if only I¡¯d known about it. I was so naïve that I thought all I had to do was obey the letter of the law, pay the fees and Uncle Sam was going to help me live my most precious dream with my love. After all, I¡¯d served my country, worked hard, paid taxes ¡®til it hurt, helped to bring American companies to international prominence and generally been a model American. Surely that should accrue some access to help with bringing my fianc¨¦ home to live. How bloody naïve.

 

We¡¯ve put together a transcript of the interview now. We had all the required documents and more. No problem there. Ying was immediately intimidated by the VO, although I don¡¯t think I should go into the reasons for that here. Having gone over the account of the interview in great detail several times, it sounds as if some very big cultural mis-latches were involved. The bottom line is that she was terrified at the outset.

 

HEADS UP #2: The interview is the meeting of two cultures; we need to prepare our wife or fianc¨¦ for that. I work in technology transfer all over the world. I¡¯ve am so used to preparing for inter-cultural differences in first meetings that I don¡¯t even really think about it anymore ¨C I just prepare for it as a matter of course. I was incredibly naïve not to have seen how that might apply at Ying¡¯s visa interview. She¡¯s so comfortable with me and all our Chinese friends. It just didn¡¯t occur to me.

 

Now, your wife or fianc¨¦e may have had lots of contact with Americans and feel very comfortable with anyone, but if that¡¯s not the case - heads up!

 

The VO asked my fianc¨¦e several perfunctory questions about me, my family, how we had met, how many times I had been to China and then she pulled out one of my letters to Ying and asked her what it said. Ying replied: ¡°I don¡¯t know. Only Doug can read it.¡± I think that is where the whole thing exploded.

 

My fianc¨¦e is one of the most honest and guileless women I have ever met. A very endearing quality, but definitely not a good position to be coming from in an 8-minute interview that will affect the next several years of your life.

 

She could have said ¡° My daughter and my best friend¡¯s son translate the letters for me. I cannot read English yet, but I know what each letter says when I receive it. My fianc¨¦ speaks to me in Chinese ¨C he is learning ¨C but he cannot write Chinese¡± ¨C or something to that effect. However, when presented with what looked to her like a deal-breaker, she just did not know what to do next ¨C for the 5 seconds or so she had to respond.

 

I have seen high-flying, multi-million dollar international business deals crash right to the ground exactly like that. However, in those cases, I or someone else was able to step in to clear up the misunderstanding and get things moving again towards an enlightened resolution. Apparently, we are not allowed any such opportunity in Guangzhou. Must be covered by the directive that ¡°Everything that is not compulsory is strictly forbidden¡±. I¡¯m going there as soon as I can to try anyway. It could be a fool¡¯s errand, but I am so much in love with Ying that I could not do otherwise.

 

Then the VO delivered her ¡°no bona-fide relationship¡± verdict. When she regained her composure, Ying tried to show her some of the other things in the heavy bag of evidences she¡¯d brought, but apparently the VO¡¯s mind was made up and she declined to look at any more evidence. .

 

HEADS UP #3: Preparation of our wives/fianc¨¦es for the interview is critical. The interview is a life-changing event. I asked Ying to be confident and just be herself at the interview. She¡¯s so charming that I thought anyone could see her sincerity. (Have you ever met a bigger dumb-ass than me?) I am now learning that there are some immigration law firms that will help coach your wife/fianc¨¦e for this most important event even if you can¡¯t be there to help. (Considering my blind ignorance, I wouldn¡¯t have been much help even if I could have been there.) If only I had known! I was so naïve that I thought this whole process was straightforward and that the Consulate had our best interests at heart. After reading the (very lengthy) portion of the Immigration Law that deals with family visas now, I find that neither the petitioner¡¯s nor the beneficiary¡¯s best interests are mentioned even once in it. The Consulate is marching to very different orders. They are looking for abuses of the law and, you know, you can easily find evidence of what you¡¯re looking for even when it is not there. Hell, you don¡¯t even really have to find them, you can just imagine them. Remember WMD?

 

The sad truth is that the burden of proof is on us, regardless of what the law says. And it can all be lost in a few seconds. The Byzantine twist is that we are not allowed to go to the interview to support our loved one with that proof as we would anywhere else in our lives.

 

One more thing I¡¯ve learned. If, God forbid, you should end up in our situation, your anger/frustration/depression/disgust and a whole list of other negative emotions will likely overwhelm you. Let it pass before you move on! Get help to get it out of your blood ¨C family, friends, whatever. Raging against the machine is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It only wears you out and it annoys the pig. I am physically sick from it. I haven¡¯t received any answers from impassioned pleas for help to Congressmen and, as the first film of my naivet¨¦ seems to be falling away, I¡¯m not pinning many hopes on that as a solution.

 

Ying and I will be together forever. The machine cannot prevent that - it can only limit some of our options temporarily. I love my country. I fought for it and have sacrificed a lot for it. It appears that the feeling is not mutual. Still a bit of bitterness left to discharge¡­

 

Right now, my plans are to get to China as soon as I can. (I haven¡¯t been able to travel there for almost a year ¨C herniated three disks in my back 2 months after my last trip to China. I have a brand new and very well studied understanding of pain. So happy that I¡¯ll be back with Ying and the family soon.) Then I¡¯m going to find a good immigration lawyer who can convince me he can help and do everything I can possibly imagine to try to get an appeal in Guangzhou. I know that¡¯s a long-odds deal, but ya gotta try.

 

I¡¯m still pretty frantic. Considering marrying in China now and then moving together to Canada or Mexico together to ride out what looks like it will be a long grind. Don¡¯t even know if that¡¯s practical yet ¨C still grasping at straws. Or moving to China to teach English for a while. I have grave doubts about that though. I don¡¯t think an English teacher¡¯s income in China is going to cut it on the Affadavit of Support that I¡¯m sure will have to be filed again. My clients would likely blackball me if I left them in the lurch. Catch 22, 23, 24 ¡­ where does it end? Need to find a good immigration lawyer soon. Maybe it¡¯s not too late.

 

¡°We are building this plane as we fly it.¡± Anonymous

 

I hope that this long story will help someone and that you¡¯ll never really know what we are going through. I¡¯m sure I still have a hell of a lot to learn. When I do, I¡¯ll pass it on. Thanks so much to all of you who are helping with my education here. The very best of luck to all!

 

Then word that doesn't come across here is N a i v e - as in dumb as an innocent brick.

[Richard & Li]

I'm really sad reading about your experience.

 

It sounds to me like you are able to remain rational even in the face of the most grevious pain. That's good. There is still process remaining to be attempted. (Others here are much more knowledgeable about that than I.)

 

There are some here whose experience parallels yours. I hope you meet them and you strengthen each other.

 

I'm glad you've found CFL. Welcome. May you find help here in how to proceed from this point forward.

[Ying 'n Doug]

Thanks for the kind words, Richard and Li. Right now it means a lot.

This is a hell of a tough way to get an education. I hope talking about it saves someone else the trouble. Best of everything to you and your family!

[IllinoisDave]

Welcome to Candle.

Sorry to hear about this. Don't kick yourself too hard. You're not the first to find Candle too late in the game or be victimized by one of the many pitfalls GUZ has in store. That's water under the bridge now. You're in the right place to get help to plot you're next moves.

 

Others will chime in but IMHO you should forget about the lawyer as successful appeals are few and far between. If you and your gal are commited to be together and are ready for a long hard slog your best bet is probably to get married and file K3. If GUZ sees that you two stayed the course through the K3 process your chances of success are much better.

 

In the meantime you can work on the things that may have derailed your K1. She can work on her English reading/speaking and you can make a trip or two to China. Keeping your US residence and present income will go farther toward getting her here than moving to China to teach or to a third country. It's not gonna be a quick process. It could take a year or two, but if the two of you are commited it could end up with you together.

 

Just my two cents. Good luck.

[HKG]

file a freedom of information request with DOS and USCIS, let them tell you why it is a nonbonafide, the Obama administration is on your side, the President has issued an executive order, telling all agencies to complie with FOIA request. ask for the consular notes and the DS 156 exhibit 3.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/21/obama...instration.html

one of many web stories on this executive order.

Edited February 7, 2009 by HKG (see edit history)

[Bryon_Tran]

A Naïve (Dumb-Ass) Petitioner

 

I am almost too embarrassed to post this. I can barely believe what a fool I¡¯ve been. If you identify with any of this as you read it, RUN!, do not walk, to get some professional and informed help. You will also do yourself a big favor by reading EVERYTHING on the Jan 21, 2009 post ¡° Bonafide Relationship Issues¡± on the Interview Results subforum of the Visa Process Forum right here on CFL. (Thank you so much, David!)

 

* * * * * * *

 

I am beginning to recover from being knocked to my knees a few days ago. On break from an assignment in Mexico, I was putting some finishing touches on our modest home ¨C and looking so forward to welcoming my fianc¨¦e to it in just a few weeks. Interview day had arrived and I could not wait to hear the happy news! The plans for the trip to San Francisco to pick Ying up were all made and friends were helping to plan the wedding.

 

I logged in on Skype to see the excitement on Ying¡¯s face as we made plans for her trip home. As soon as her image came up on the screen, my heart stopped. Tears were streaming down her face. ¡°I am refused today!¡± she said. As soon as I could breathe again, I dissolved in tears too.

 

We talked for hours and cried together. I was furious. How could they do this ¨C say we did not have a bona-fide relationship? We struggled for the words to share our feelings.

 

In the last 20 months, Ying and I have struggled to learn each other¡¯s language ¨C and we¡¯ve done pretty well. We taught each other mostly on Skype, although she¡¯s taking English classes too. Our first conversations were pretty limited without the translator machine. We¡¯ve kept at it though and we¡¯re gabbing away for an hour in Chinese-English-Chinglish almost every day now. No matter where we are, we can talk if we have fast Internet connections

 

We can speak with each other, but we¡¯ve still not learned to READ each other¡¯s language. We never imagined that would be our undoing at the interview.

 

Over the next few days, we talked a lot. Bless her heart, Ying showed again why I am so blessed to have found her in all this wide world. My anger was almost without bounds. Over the course of a few days, she has helped me so much to discharge the anger and set about getting going on a new plan. I¡¯m much better now, even though the sting of this slap still hurts like hell. When I volunteered to go off to an unpopular war all those years ago, I thought I might get some consideration for that from Uncle Sam someday. Ha!

 

In the beginning, I contracted a lawyer to help out with our petition but, really, all he did was help out with the filling out of the various forms and give minimal advice. He charged quite handsomely for that service, of course. In my naivet¨¦ (read ¡°dumb-ass fog¡±) I thought I was covering the bases and had it all in hand.

 

HEADS UP #1: The price of legal counsel is no guarantee as to its quality. Research your legal help. Get references. Think you can do this on your own? God bless you. You COULD get lucky, but might very well end up like us. Petitioning for a K visa is a very long walk on a very slippery slope. Find someone who really knows what he/she is doing!

 

I am finding out that CFL is one of the best resources I could have had ¨C if only I¡¯d known about it. I was so naïve that I thought all I had to do was obey the letter of the law, pay the fees and Uncle Sam was going to help me live my most precious dream with my love. After all, I¡¯d served my country, worked hard, paid taxes ¡®til it hurt, helped to bring American companies to international prominence and generally been a model American. Surely that should accrue some access to help with bringing my fianc¨¦ home to live. How bloody naïve.

 

We¡¯ve put together a transcript of the interview now. We had all the required documents and more. No problem there. Ying was immediately intimidated by the VO, although I don¡¯t think I should go into the reasons for that here. Having gone over the account of the interview in great detail several times, it sounds as if some very big cultural mis-latches were involved. The bottom line is that she was terrified at the outset.

 

HEADS UP #2: The interview is the meeting of two cultures; we need to prepare our wife or fianc¨¦ for that. I work in technology transfer all over the world. I¡¯ve am so used to preparing for inter-cultural differences in first meetings that I don¡¯t even really think about it anymore ¨C I just prepare for it as a matter of course. I was incredibly naïve not to have seen how that might apply at Ying¡¯s visa interview. She¡¯s so comfortable with me and all our Chinese friends. It just didn¡¯t occur to me.

 

Now, your wife or fianc¨¦e may have had lots of contact with Americans and feel very comfortable with anyone, but if that¡¯s not the case - heads up!

 

The VO asked my fianc¨¦e several perfunctory questions about me, my family, how we had met, how many times I had been to China and then she pulled out one of my letters to Ying and asked her what it said. Ying replied: ¡°I don¡¯t know. Only Doug can read it.¡± I think that is where the whole thing exploded.

 

My fianc¨¦e is one of the most honest and guileless women I have ever met. A very endearing quality, but definitely not a good position to be coming from in an 8-minute interview that will affect the next several years of your life.

 

She could have said ¡° My daughter and my best friend¡¯s son translate the letters for me. I cannot read English yet, but I know what each letter says when I receive it. My fianc¨¦ speaks to me in Chinese ¨C he is learning ¨C but he cannot write Chinese¡± ¨C or something to that effect. However, when presented with what looked to her like a deal-breaker, she just did not know what to do next ¨C for the 5 seconds or so she had to respond.

 

I have seen high-flying, multi-million dollar international business deals crash right to the ground exactly like that. However, in those cases, I or someone else was able to step in to clear up the misunderstanding and get things moving again towards an enlightened resolution. Apparently, we are not allowed any such opportunity in Guangzhou. Must be covered by the directive that ¡°Everything that is not compulsory is strictly forbidden¡±. I¡¯m going there as soon as I can to try anyway. It could be a fool¡¯s errand, but I am so much in love with Ying that I could not do otherwise.

 

Then the VO delivered her ¡°no bona-fide relationship¡± verdict. When she regained her composure, Ying tried to show her some of the other things in the heavy bag of evidences she¡¯d brought, but apparently the VO¡¯s mind was made up and she declined to look at any more evidence. .

 

HEADS UP #3: Preparation of our wives/fianc¨¦es for the interview is critical. The interview is a life-changing event. I asked Ying to be confident and just be herself at the interview. She¡¯s so charming that I thought anyone could see her sincerity. (Have you ever met a bigger dumb-ass than me?) I am now learning that there are some immigration law firms that will help coach your wife/fianc¨¦e for this most important event even if you can¡¯t be there to help. (Considering my blind ignorance, I wouldn¡¯t have been much help even if I could have been there.) If only I had known! I was so naïve that I thought this whole process was straightforward and that the Consulate had our best interests at heart. After reading the (very lengthy) portion of the Immigration Law that deals with family visas now, I find that neither the petitioner¡¯s nor the beneficiary¡¯s best interests are mentioned even once in it. The Consulate is marching to very different orders. They are looking for abuses of the law and, you know, you can easily find evidence of what you¡¯re looking for even when it is not there. Hell, you don¡¯t even really have to find them, you can just imagine them. Remember WMD?

 

The sad truth is that the burden of proof is on us, regardless of what the law says. And it can all be lost in a few seconds. The Byzantine twist is that we are not allowed to go to the interview to support our loved one with that proof as we would anywhere else in our lives.

 

One more thing I¡¯ve learned. If, God forbid, you should end up in our situation, your anger/frustration/depression/disgust and a whole list of other negative emotions will likely overwhelm you. Let it pass before you move on! Get help to get it out of your blood ¨C family, friends, whatever. Raging against the machine is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It only wears you out and it annoys the pig. I am physically sick from it. I haven¡¯t received any answers from impassioned pleas for help to Congressmen and, as the first film of my naivet¨¦ seems to be falling away, I¡¯m not pinning many hopes on that as a solution.

 

Ying and I will be together forever. The machine cannot prevent that - it can only limit some of our options temporarily. I love my country. I fought for it and have sacrificed a lot for it. It appears that the feeling is not mutual. Still a bit of bitterness left to discharge¡­

 

Right now, my plans are to get to China as soon as I can. (I haven¡¯t been able to travel there for almost a year ¨C herniated three disks in my back 2 months after my last trip to China. I have a brand new and very well studied understanding of pain. So happy that I¡¯ll be back with Ying and the family soon.) Then I¡¯m going to find a good immigration lawyer who can convince me he can help and do everything I can possibly imagine to try to get an appeal in Guangzhou. I know that¡¯s a long-odds deal, but ya gotta try.

 

I¡¯m still pretty frantic. Considering marrying in China now and then moving together to Canada or Mexico together to ride out what looks like it will be a long grind. Don¡¯t even know if that¡¯s practical yet ¨C still grasping at straws. Or moving to China to teach English for a while. I have grave doubts about that though. I don¡¯t think an English teacher¡¯s income in China is going to cut it on the Affadavit of Support that I¡¯m sure will have to be filed again. My clients would likely blackball me if I left them in the lurch. Catch 22, 23, 24 ¡­ where does it end? Need to find a good immigration lawyer soon. Maybe it¡¯s not too late.

 

¡°We are building this plane as we fly it.¡± Anonymous

 

I hope that this long story will help someone and that you¡¯ll never really know what we are going through. I¡¯m sure I still have a hell of a lot to learn. When I do, I¡¯ll pass it on. Thanks so much to all of you who are helping with my education here. The very best of luck to all!

Hi, I'm in the same boat, and its not the end of the world. You need her to go to an attorny over there if you cannot find one you might be able to contact Marcus Ellis He has an office In America and Ho Chi Minh. Have your fiancee see an attorny as soon as possible while the interview is still fresh in her head. I had mine see Marcus Ellis he was very reasonable after a consult he gave me a good recomendation. Then follow that plan to the best of your ability never trust the lawyer to do everything for you. I paid an attorny and figured it was in the bag he was 100% guarentee so I trusted everthing to him. He told me all I had to do is sit back and wait for her. He told me he would have somebody coach my fiancee however the few hours she was coached was worthless when it came time for the interview. She was so nervous and mentaly unprepared she didn't have a chance. The second interview will be different in your case and my case.

 

I also checked into moving to canada they have a 67 point system I am also in the IT field however to move there on the point system you have to have a perfered profession. All the IT perfered positions fields seems you have to have the title of a Director or higher. I spoke with a Canadian immagration attorny he told me I didn't quilify for the perfered worker program but said if I got a job offer that could change things. He also told me to contact him in a few months because he thought the laws were going to change between the US and Canada as far as immigration. I have check into teaching not for China but for Vietnam. If you have a 4 year degree in just about anything you can get a job there teaching starting at about 15$ an hour. You can earn a little more if you get a teaching certificate that takes 6 months to get. I would hold off on Canada or moving there until you talk to an attorny and see what they advise. I personally think you can bring her over here it will just take time.

[Guest Pommey]

very sorry to hear about this

 

I agree with you interview preperation is crucial, good luck

[LeeFisher3]

If you are seriously looking for a good attorney, try Marc Ellis.

 

Here is an article he wrote, Denials Of Family-Based Immigrant Visas At Consulates And DHS Petition Revocations you will find his contact information at the bottom of it.

 

As for the FOIA, my thought is you can wish in one hand and .... in the other, then see which gets full first.

[griz326]

Sorry to hear this news. I guess my gal and I were lucky. We used Roger Lin in Nanning to help us with the K1-K2, so far he's been great for us. ...but I do not know if he could help you at this stage.

 

I feel certain that my wife's experience as a government worker helped her in the interview, but there was still a ton of preparation and luck.

 

The people here who have hit potholes and road blocks are far better equipped to help than this one lucky guy.

Edited February 8, 2009 by griz326 (see edit history)

[chilton747]

The exact same thing happened to me and my then fiancee. How naive we were thinking if we just told the truth and had nothing to hide then we would be ok. She was not prepared for the interview and got blindsided. Although it takes awhile, the good news is that the relationship can still flourish and that is what's most important. I wish you the best of luck! This is only a temporary setback.

[MikeXiao]

Sorry to hear the news. Many here learn of this site after this sort of thing has happened. Some are on board early and have tapped the vast sea of experience and knowledge, and get prepared. Some of those still are denied (we were twice), but stand up and get right back into the battle. You will overcome this obsticle.

[defendo]

Sorry to hear the news. Many here learn of this site after this sort of thing has happened. Some are on board early and have tapped the vast sea of experience and knowledge, and get prepared. Some of those still are denied (we were twice), but stand up and get right back into the battle. You will overcome this obsticle.

 

 

I feel your pain. Your story is earrily simular to mine. I think for some reason, the ability to communicate is a standard that reflects whether a marriage is bona fide. I appears to change from time to time. I know of couples who could not speak each others language, even now 2-3 years after living with each other in the US.

 

I believe this to be so because the vo asked my wife to read from an e-mail I had written to her in English. My wife said that she could not read English. That seemed to nail it. My wife tried to explain that we use tanslation devices and I have been struggling to learn Chinese for the last 1 1/2 years. But the vo did not want to hear anymore.

 

I personally do not believe that any legal basis for a Consular officer to decide having a common language is essential for a bona fide relationship to exist. How different history would be if the power of love is so easily defined.

 

The wisest advice I have gotten from this site is that the primary goal is to be reunited permanently with our spouse and that should be the focus of our effort. I also think that advocacy is important, because just maybe, the system can be changed. But I am also concerned that advocacy will draw retribution.

 

I can not do anything until I get notification from USCIS / NVC. I will rebutt and refile simultaneously once I have all my documentation together. As often suggested on this site, I will "front load" my petition with every shred of evidence.

 

I knew I had a burden of prove to fulfill and thought I did so, but walked straight into the at GUZ.

 

The hardest part for me was coming to the realization that the process is going to take much longer at a time I thought it was almost over. I only hope that in the end, right will be done.

 

Peace,

Jay

[MikeXiao]

When we were emailing each other, I had a translation program that would let me email her in Chinese. It would also translate hers for me. So my wife took a lot of emails to her interview. We were denied, because they needed more time. Hell they invited us to be there, and they needed more time? We believe that someone from my wife's past had sent a letter to GUZ telling some lie, and they had to investigate it. I just delayed us about 6 months.

[bob&haiqing]

Hey Doug,

 

Sorry to hear about your situation but feel assured that you're in the right place now and there are ways to get what you want. There are many wonderful, knowledgeable people here on CFL who can answer your questions about how to proceed from where you are now.

 

Remember one thing, the visa process is NOT about Love. It's a legal process and needs to be handled in that fashion so the more information you glean from this site the better prepared you'll be to have a successful outcome

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob