Overcome With New Petition

[chilton747]

I was going to marry my fiancee in another city like Thiland Hanio or Hong Kong instead of Ho Chi Minh but my senator's helper advised against it she said it would look suspicious like we were tying to get around Ho Chi Minh and that could hurt our case. I don't know how legit that is but I don't want to do anything to hurt our case so I'm getting married in Ho Chi Minh. Just think everything threw first I would retain Marcus Ellis and see what he thinks he has had good success getting the visa approved on the second time.

 

Failing the first time around is bad enough but failing the second time around would be another story that I would not want to hear or experience. Whether you think you need it or not, a very experienced attorney like Marc is a big plus. My case was simple but I did not want to take a chance. I agree with you Bryon and keep the case in Ho Chi Minh.

 

Good luck!!

[chilton747]

Let's throw something out for general opinion from anyone and everyone.

 

A couple gets whited for a K1, for not a bone fide relationship, and while the petition is in the full return process, the couple marries and then starts a new K3 petition.

 

If having never received the NOID/NOIR letter, listing the specific reason(s) for denial, so not being able to rebut directly, what is everyone's opinion on:

 

if the K3 petition is approved by USCIS and the NVC with the reasons known to them for the K1 denial, and they STILL approve for the K3, GUZ not being able to cite these reasons again at the K3 interview? They shouldn't (I shudder at that word) be able to cite these reasons again if the K3 petition's been approved by USCIS and the NVC with them knowing GUZ's original reasons for denial?

 

I guess that it matters if the USCIS has actually reviewed the reasons for the denial in the first place. Just because the petition has been sent back doesn't mean that it has been reviewed and judgment rendered. These petitions have a tendency to sit at the bottom of a pile or so I have been told. I would not place too much emphasis on the legal aspects at this point but rather addressing the potential reason for the denial and the comprehensive proof of an ongoing relationship. I firmly believe that these are your best weapons of defense along with Marc Ellis if you can get things worked out with him.

[Ying 'n Doug]

Thanks, Byron, for the reference to Mark Ellis. I've read some of his postings on the 'Net and he sounds very knowledgable and involved in family visa issues. My case is in China (just got knocked to my knees with a K1 refusal).

 

I've also found reference to another law office in Guangzhou that, at least, makes an excellent presentation of thier services on thier web site. It is the offices of Frederick W. Hong, with offices in several cities in Cjhina as well as the U.S. Does anyone have any experience with his firm?

 

I'm going to China as soon as I can get there and am considering contracting Mr. Hong's firm. Even if we can't get the K1 decision reversed, we need to know how to proceed. Too late did I find out that this whole process is very much a walk on a very slippery slope. I think I was very naive. We got the old "no bona-fide relationship" slam a few days ago. I have only now recovered from "acid-heart" enough to be able to post something that doesn't sound insane. It's quite a blow when the machine shreds your dreams. However, I don't really enjoy beating my head against the wall just 'cause it feels so good when I stop.

 

Thanks much for any information anyone will post

[HKG]

Marry in Hong Kong if it comes to that and remove GUZ from the picture entirely.

 

I second what 'ShadoGray' says here - just plan on staying 15 days in HKG - the first day to FILE for the marriage certificate, the 15th day to actually marry.

 

Then - do a I-130 with adjucation listed as 'GUZ', and a followup I-129F for K-3, with adjudication listed as 'HKG'.

 

Then, if for some reason, yer are denied at HKG, for the K-3 - you can still go to GUZ for the I-130.

 

Good Luck !

A back flip in a helicopter sounds easier.

Why so cynical? The K-3 in Hong Kong has worked well for many and the wait time is usually much less than GUZ.

Aha, ol', Fisher, lighten up man not being 'cycnical' just an expression..

[Bryon_Tran]

Thanks, Byron, for the reference to Mark Ellis. I've read some of his postings on the 'Net and he sounds very knowledgable and involved in family visa issues. My case is in China (just got knocked to my knees with a K1 refusal).

 

I've also found reference to another law office in Guangzhou that, at least, makes an excellent presentation of thier services on thier web site. It is the offices of Frederick W. Hong, with offices in several cities in Cjhina as well as the U.S. Does anyone have any experience with his firm?

 

I'm going to China as soon as I can get there and am considering contracting Mr. Hong's firm. Even if we can't get the K1 decision reversed, we need to know how to proceed. Too late did I find out that this whole process is very much a walk on a very slippery slope. I think I was very naive. We got the old "no bona-fide relationship" slam a few days ago. I have only now recovered from "acid-heart" enough to be able to post something that doesn't sound insane. It's quite a blow when the machine shreds your dreams. However, I don't really enjoy beating my head against the wall just 'cause it feels so good when I stop.

 

Thanks much for any information anyone will post

Just remember a lawyer can only do so much so if you want her hear you have to do alot of the research yourself. I hired a lawyer for the first process and he said 100% guarentee so I trusted him and did the minimum and ended up in the same boat. I would recomend doeing alot of the work on your own and leave the legal stuff to the attorny. If you talk to that attorny make sure he does not cancel your expired petition because then you will be done. I would recomend reading this link its posted on this and many other boards several times.

 

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

 

I do about 20 hours of research on this board, visa journey and the family immigration board. I email several lawyers to get free consults and I try to peice all the info together. I email several members on these boards and ask questions if I'm unsure of something. The accumulated knowledge and future trends of interview results will give you the best chance to succeed. Ive sent pm to most people on this thread and have recived what I would call priceless information even though my fiancee is in ho chi minh it still applies.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Bryon_Tran (see edit history)

[Inailit88]

Let's throw something out for general opinion from anyone and everyone.

 

A couple gets whited for a K1, for not a bone fide relationship, and while the petition is in the full return process, the couple marries and then starts a new K3 petition.

 

If having never received the NOID/NOIR letter, listing the specific reason(s) for denial, so not being able to rebut directly, what is everyone's opinion on:

 

if the K3 petition is approved by USCIS and the NVC with the reasons known to them for the K1 denial, and they STILL approve for the K3, GUZ not being able to cite these reasons again at the K3 interview? They shouldn't (I shudder at that word) be able to cite these reasons again if the K3 petition's been approved by USCIS and the NVC with them knowing GUZ's original reasons for denial?

 

did we know if anyone get denied on his second try?.....i think we need statistics then we can draw conclusion of how to proceed if denied the first time. getting married on the second try is certainly part of proving to GUZ " bonafide" and then, time and visits are also some of the most important factors too. IMO, no rush is needed in the second try and as cliche as it is... time will prove everything..bonafide or not....time is the best witness in this whole process.......

[Bryon_Tran]

Let's throw something out for general opinion from anyone and everyone.

 

A couple gets whited for a K1, for not a bone fide relationship, and while the petition is in the full return process, the couple marries and then starts a new K3 petition.

 

If having never received the NOID/NOIR letter, listing the specific reason(s) for denial, so not being able to rebut directly, what is everyone's opinion on:

 

if the K3 petition is approved by USCIS and the NVC with the reasons known to them for the K1 denial, and they STILL approve for the K3, GUZ not being able to cite these reasons again at the K3 interview? They shouldn't (I shudder at that word) be able to cite these reasons again if the K3 petition's been approved by USCIS and the NVC with them knowing GUZ's original reasons for denial?

 

did we know if anyone get denied on his second try?.....i think we need statistics then we can draw conclusion of how to proceed if denied the first time. getting married on the second try is certainly part of proving to GUZ " bonafide" and then, time and visits are also some of the most important factors too. IMO, no rush is needed in the second try and as cliche as it is... time will prove everything..bonafide or not....time is the best witness in this whole process.......

Yes time is a big part of it, I wish there was some way we could find out the success rate on passing the second time. 2 years seems to be the magic number that I hear here and other places. I'm not sure when that 2 year counter starts. I was thinking it started from the first time you filed but it might be from the time you get denied. I met my fiancee april of 07 we filed a year later april of 08 denied dec of 08. I plan to file april of 09 so by the time we get our next interview we will have been together 3 years.

 

There is a good website I found very usefull its http://www.apexvisa.us/ under critical info it has alot of good advice.

I would recomend highly anybody that is going to go for a visa first or second attemp to read that.

[Randy W]

 

Yes time is a big part of it, I wish there was some way we could find out the success rate on passing the second time. 2 years seems to be the magic number that I hear here and other places. I'm not sure when that 2 year counter starts. I was thinking it started from the first time you filed but it might be from the time you get denied. I met my fiancee april of 07 we filed a year later april of 08 denied dec of 08. I plan to file april of 09 so by the time we get our next interview we will have been together 3 years.

 

There is a good website I found very usefull its http://www.apexvisa.us/ under critical info it has alot of good advice.

I would recomend highly anybody that is going to go for a visa first or second attemp to read that.

 

 

2 years is the magic counter used by the USCIS (I believe it's even in the INA) - if your marriage lasts 2 years at the time of AOS, you get an unconditional 10 year card, instead of a conditional 2 year card. That's 2 years from the date of your marriage.

[HKG]

Disclamer

I started my post as a sense of humor and it turned into a "flame" I did not intend.

Edited February 12, 2009 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[jst]

If GUZ wants to deny you, they will deny you - 1st, 2nd, or any other time. They decide to deny, and then come up with the reason.

 

My advice is to paint a picture of a bonafide relationship in your application with relationship evidence - don't spend so much time rebutting "reasons for denial" that you actually provide them with ammunition

I agree with you 100% its not just guz other places like Ho Chi Minh do that also. Even though they didn't give you a reason or in my case made up reasons just keep at it collecting evedince and don't give them anything more or they will use it against you. I wrote a letter/email along with my fiancee after we were denied but we were very carefull with our wording so that it coudln't come back to haunt us. I think for them or anybody to deny a second is very rare unless they uncover some fraud.

 

Bryon,

 

Back when I went to Vietnam I spoke to an attorney, Back than and still now Vietnam is the WORST to get a visa, yes as much as it is to believe, it is worse than GUZ. This attorney told me as well as several other attorneys, Go to Thailand and get married. Have the family ceramony in Vietnam but do the legal paperwork in Thailand. It can be done in about 4 or 5 days, once again a little bit of money will be need to the Vietnamese consulate in Thailand to help speed up your fiances paperwork in Thailand. The US consulate is much easier in Bangkok than HCMC. You cannot tell the consulate you went to Bangkok to marry because it is easier than Thailand or they can kick you file to HCMC. That is the only reason they can kick the file to HCMC. Also, she can wait inside an air conditioned room for interview as opposed to the very hot room in HCMC. I've been in both. Just tell them it is a dream to get married in Thailand. Check online for marriage agencies, they can take care of most things before you come to thailand for about 4 or 5 hundred.

[Bryon_Tran]

If GUZ wants to deny you, they will deny you - 1st, 2nd, or any other time. They decide to deny, and then come up with the reason.

 

My advice is to paint a picture of a bonafide relationship in your application with relationship evidence - don't spend so much time rebutting "reasons for denial" that you actually provide them with ammunition

I agree with you 100% its not just guz other places like Ho Chi Minh do that also. Even though they didn't give you a reason or in my case made up reasons just keep at it collecting evedince and don't give them anything more or they will use it against you. I wrote a letter/email along with my fiancee after we were denied but we were very carefull with our wording so that it coudln't come back to haunt us. I think for them or anybody to deny a second is very rare unless they uncover some fraud.

 

Bryon,

 

Back when I went to Vietnam I spoke to an attorney, Back than and still now Vietnam is the WORST to get a visa, yes as much as it is to believe, it is worse than GUZ. This attorney told me as well as several other attorneys, Go to Thailand and get married. Have the family ceramony in Vietnam but do the legal paperwork in Thailand. It can be done in about 4 or 5 days, once again a little bit of money will be need to the Vietnamese consulate in Thailand to help speed up your fiances paperwork in Thailand. The US consulate is much easier in Bangkok than HCMC. You cannot tell the consulate you went to Bangkok to marry because it is easier than Thailand or they can kick you file to HCMC. That is the only reason they can kick the file to HCMC. Also, she can wait inside an air conditioned room for interview as opposed to the very hot room in HCMC. I've been in both. Just tell them it is a dream to get married in Thailand. Check online for marriage agencies, they can take care of most things before you come to thailand for about 4 or 5 hundred.

What if I tell them I want to get married in Thailand because of convience? It takes 30 days to get married in Vietnam but only 4 or 5 to get married in Thailand. I could tell them I cannot get enought time off from work to get married in Vietnam.

[SmilingAsia]

If GUZ wants to deny you, they will deny you - 1st, 2nd, or any other time.

Well, I saw a few people got their K1 visas through a 2nd petition. I think they got a lawyer to rebut the findings then filed another petition of K1, which is much faster than getting married and filing for K3. Edited February 14, 2009 by SmilingAsia (see edit history)

[Randy W]

If GUZ wants to deny you, they will deny you - 1st, 2nd, or any other time.

Well, I saw a few people got their K1 visas through a 2nd petition. I think they got a lawyer to rebut the findings then filed another petition of K1, which is much faster than getting married and filing for K3.

 

 

Well, yes. Several have posted here about it also.

 

Each application is distinct.

 

My point was that reasons for a first denial that still exist through a second application can cause a second denial. If they want to deny a second application, they will.

 

This is why the lawyer rebuts the findings. Don't count on them being erased by the "no readjudication" clause.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)