US Citizenship vs Chinese Citizenship

[Patrick & Li]

What does a wife lose if she doesn't declare for a US Citizenship and decided to remain a Chinese Citizen?

 

1- She will still be able to draw SS

2- She will still be able to use Medicade

3- She can still contribute to a 401K with her company in US

 

What else? What are the advantages/disadvantages? I would appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

 

Patrick & Li

[C4Racer]

Another advantage to citizenship is being able to file for relatives to come to the US. As an LPR, they can only file for son or daughter under 18. As a USC, they can file for mother/father, son/daughter over 18 and brother/sister.

[dale7570]

as a usc she can also vote, hold certain govt. jobs, and get a u.s. passport enabling easier travel. most likely she will have to give up her chinese passport and get a chinese visa when she wants to return to china for visits. also, as a usc she can stay out of the country as long as she likes without penalty.

[Randy W]

Another advantage to citizenship is being able to file for relatives to come to the US. As an LPR, they can only file for son or daughter under 18. As a USC, they can file for mother/father, son/daughter over 18 and brother/sister.

 

Make that unmarried son or daughter of any age.

[dnoblett]

Here is a list I found:

1. A Citizen Can Vote
   A citizen has the right to vote for elected officials at the federal, state and local levels who shape the policy of the government.
   
2. Dual Citizenship (Currently N/A with China)
   Certain countries, including Ireland and the United Kingdom, recognize "dual citizenship" permitting naturalized U.S. citizens to maintain their citizenship of birth and original passport.
   
3. Citizens Can Bring More Relatives From Abroad, More Quickly
   Citizens can petition for a wider variety of family members to come to the US as permanent residents. They also have much shorter waiting times for green cards, and no limits.
   
4. Citizens Cannot be Deported
   Most of us never expect to commit a crime, but if we are the victims of circumstance, in the wrong place at the wrong time, as citizens, we cannot be deported. We also don't need to worry about a lost green card or too-long stay outside the US preventing us from re-entering.
   
5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits
   Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.
   
6. Citizens are Entitled to More Public Benefits
   Citizens are eligible for more public benefits, including Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Food Stamps, as well as certain academic scholarships and financial aid.
   
7. A US Citizen Can Hold Office and Have More Job Opportunities
   Only a citizen has the right to hold an elected position in most city, state or federal offices. Many federal, state and city jobs also require citizenship.
   
8. Adopted or Natural Children Under 18 May be Naturalized Automatically
   Depending on the circumstances, children born abroad, who are under 18 years of age and unmarried may be able to naturalize automatically when a parent does so.
   
9. Citizens Have More Financial and Tax Benefits
   Citizens often receive approval on loans andmortgages more easily, and/or they get better rates, because the lender knows there is less chance they will defect. Citizens are often subject to fewer restrictions on estate taxes as well.
   
10. Citizens Don't Have to Worry About Renewing a Green Card Every 10 Years
    We have enough to worry about with passports and other paperwork. As citizens, we don't have to worry about renewing a green cards every ten years.
    

http://immigration.about.com/od/whybecomea...0CitizenBen.htm

[2mike&jin]

[*]Citizens Have More Financial and Tax Benefits

Citizens often receive approval on loans andmortgages more easily, and/or they get better rates, because the lender knows there is less chance they will defect. Citizens are often subject to fewer restrictions on estate taxes as well.

http://immigration.about.com/od/whybecomea...0CitizenBen.htm[/url]

 

Great list...note the "restrictions on estate taxes". If CHop Suey opens an ADULT HOTEL and makes $5Million, OR TOPLAW sells $20 Million in books....the following will happen at death.... a USC spouse is NOT a US citizen THERE IS NO ABILITY to HAVE THE SPOUSE GET A TAX FREE TRANSFER. I.E. Because their spuses are NON-USC's they will pay 55% to the Government at the time of their death in estate taxes. (Barack wants to change it to 45% - how thoughtfull). IF they are USC's there is NO TAX. What's wrong with this picture!

 

Welcome to the US Tax and ESTATE SYSTEM!

[Toplaw]

Heck, Mike, we will just meet you and Jin in Hawaii and spend it.

 

We are seriously thinking about Ping not becoming a USC. Fortunately, under your (well conceived ) scenario, the $20 million would be community property under Texas law, so Ping would already own half. For the other half, we could set up a trust for Cici (as our USC daughter) and a generation skipping trust for her kids to help some, and spend the rest.

[rogerluli]

If you will be living in the US it seems to hardly matter... If you are planning on spending a substantial amount of time in China as we are in retirement its a different story...We are still undecided and will really have to wait until just before we make the jump to see what current laws are on visas for being able to stay in China long term if we are both USCs...I hate the thought of making a forced march every year to the US to keep Lu Li's PR intact and never really being sure that some overzealous IO would cause us problems...

[warpedbored]

As a US citizen she can stay outside the US indefinitely and still be able to collect Social Security. As an LPR she would have to return at least once a year for a duration long enough to maintain her LPR status.

 

On the down side if she wants to visit China as a US citizen she will need a visa. I don't believe they will issue one for more than 90 days. If she got a one year multiple entry visa she would have to leave China and re-enter every 90 days.

[rogerluli]

Yeah I'm hoping that will change before we retire and we can stay in China for like 6 months before having to make a visa run... If it doesnt' change then Lu Li will become a USC...We'll sign up for the MM2H program in Malaysia...Buy a place there and sell all but the China house in her hometown...

[2mike&jin]

Heck, Mike, we will just meet you and Jin in Hawaii and spend it.

 

We are seriously thinking about Ping not becoming a USC. Fortunately, under your (well conceived ) scenario, the $20 million would be community property under Texas law, so Ping would already own half. For the other half, we could set up a trust for Cici (as our USC daughter) and a generation skipping trust for her kids to help some, and spend the rest.

 

 

Please - Toplaw and others.... "Community Property" states, and Texas Law don't protect you from Federal Estate Taxes for NON USC's.

 

I.e. if Toplaw makes the $20million, Texas and many other states say it's community property - because it's earned after marriage in a community property state. The source of "money" is the issue when it is a non-USC spouse.

 

If the USC earns the money....for Estate Taxes it will all be the USC's and our Government will scoop their 55% at death of the USC. If the couple buys a house with it ...the $20million, held in joint ownership with rights of survivorship -- to all of us it should be quite clear that the non USC spouse owns 50%. This is very true for taxes, community property, and the like...however it is not the case for our Estate Laws, and unless the NON USC can prove that she/he put 50% of their money into the home (or income as it might be) then the entire estate/property/funds are subject to the then current estate rate 55/45% as it might be.

 

This is one of the biggest "bad side effects" of our congress tampering with tax and estate laws, equal to the AMT debacle. Unfortunately, there are so few USC's with non-USC spouses that are subject to this problem that it gets no attention. Interesting side note, once congress decided to put the "schnitzel" to the NON-USC spouse they correspondingly "upped" the amount that one can gift to the NON-USC spouse. Normally anyone can give $13K a year to anyone without being subject to gift taxes. The twist in the estate/gift laws allow the gifting of $128K a year without taxes to the non-USC spouse as a "well we s.....d you so we will give you a little bit back each year" -- but only if you can separately account for it...forever!

 

There are easy ways around all of the above with the creation of trusts for ownership of all of these assets with provisions for QDT created trusts at the time of the USC's death, so that 55% of the value does not go to the Gov't. It is even possible to hold these monies in trust - until the Non USC becomes a USC and then the transfer can take place. However, if you don't set it up correctly --- the money will go to the Government and you would've made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately, any assets held "Worldwide" are subject to the US estate law for each USC. It is an ugly US TAX world!!

 

"DISCLAIMER---I'm not an attorney or Accountant" please thoroughly investigate your own situation - and tax situs. I just don't want anyone to miss some of these hidden "gotcha's" with respect to estate laws.

[lostinblue]

Heck, Mike, we will just meet you and Jin in Hawaii and spend it.

 

We are seriously thinking about Ping not becoming a USC. Fortunately, under your (well conceived ) scenario, the $20 million would be community property under Texas law, so Ping would already own half. For the other half, we could set up a trust for Cici (as our USC daughter) and a generation skipping trust for her kids to help some, and spend the rest.

 

 

Please - Toplaw and others.... "Community Property" states, and Texas Law don't protect you from Federal Estate Taxes for NON USC's.

 

I.e. if Toplaw makes the $20million, Texas and many other states say it's community property - because it's earned after marriage in a community property state. The source of "money" is the issue when it is a non-USC spouse.

 

If the USC earns the money....for Estate Taxes it will all be the USC's and our Government will scoop their 55% at death of the USC. If the couple buys a house with it ...the $20million, held in joint ownership with rights of survivorship -- to all of us it should be quite clear that the non USC spouse owns 50%. This is very true for taxes, community property, and the like...however it is not the case for our Estate Laws, and unless the NON USC can prove that she/he put 50% of their money into the home (or income as it might be) then the entire estate/property/funds are subject to the then current estate rate 55/45% as it might be.

 

This is one of the biggest "bad side effects" of our congress tampering with tax and estate laws, equal to the AMT debacle. Unfortunately, there are so few USC's with non-USC spouses that are subject to this problem that it gets no attention. Interesting side note, once congress decided to put the "schnitzel" to the NON-USC spouse they correspondingly "upped" the amount that one can gift to the NON-USC spouse. Normally anyone can give $13K a year to anyone without being subject to gift taxes. The twist in the estate/gift laws allow the gifting of $128K a year without taxes to the non-USC spouse as a "well we s.....d you so we will give you a little bit back each year" -- but only if you can separately account for it...forever!

 

There are easy ways around all of the above with the creation of trusts for ownership of all of these assets with provisions for QDT created trusts at the time of the USC's death, so that 55% of the value does not go to the Gov't. It is even possible to hold these monies in trust - until the Non USC becomes a USC and then the transfer can take place. However, if you don't set it up correctly --- the money will go to the Government and you would've made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately, any assets held "Worldwide" are subject to the US estate law for each USC. It is an ugly US TAX world!!

 

"DISCLAIMER---I'm not an attorney or Accountant" please thoroughly investigate your own situation - and tax situs. I just don't want anyone to miss some of these hidden "gotcha's" with respect to estate laws.

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