Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants

[Dave G.]

I heard Bustimonte on the news this morning. He said that because Arnold is against giving driver's licenses to illegals that he is anti immigration. Huh? I didn't know illegal entry is a part of the immigration process.

 

My housekeeper is from Mexico...a naturalized citizen. Her husband came here illegally to be with her (guess I'm never running for office). The gov knew and let him stay while they filed his AOS. A deadline passed that was the gov's fault. They still fined him $1000 because of the missed deadline due to his illegal entry. He finally got his greencard last month. They paid $900 for an attorney who did little for them.

 

Not sure why any of that is important. Just food for thought........

[skrunks]

I suppose I have a different perspective on this issue, even as my future chinese wife prepares to come here and join me shortly while others cross the border illegally to spend years here, maybe their entire life, without availing themselves of the proper procedure(s). I do not think anyone would disagree that people come here for a better life -- and that applies equally to most of our own ancestors as well. Yet, we condemn illegals, and anything that will help them because it is "unfair relative to me and my situation". That is probably true, as policies are not always equitable, consistent or fair.

 

However, we are quick to forget that, except for a few, US history in north america began by immigrants taking land and rights from the native inhabitants. Was that wrong? Yes. I have thought long on this issue, as I am native american giving me a different way to look at this. So, I have trouble reconciling our indignation at illegals with the facts of how america came to be. My conclusion? Be tolerant, and slow to condemn others or actions that benefit them, for we have not traveled in their shoes. Are some immigrant decisions unfair? Perhaps, but many things in life go that way. Concentrate rather on the good things....it will help us all.

[skibum]

I searched on Dornan and Scarbourgh and did not find much on them running for President. I believe both are GOP. However if any of you wish to express your opinion, Joe Lieberman is asking for your opinion on immigration at www.joe2004.com. Lets tell him!

 

If I remember correctly, Dornan was the first victim of the motor voter law when the illegal alien vote sent him down. It is a misdemeanor to register to vote if you are not a citizen. Since they are already felons I don't think that keeps them from voting. Stupid Congress.

[Francine-gg]

Here is a novel idea:

 

A 3 month Amnesty for all K-Visa Petitioners starting Sept 15th thu Dec 15th all K-Visa petitioners who have NOA2 and NVC approval simply report to any major US airport Immigration office to be immediately stamped a K-visa, this would relieve the enormous backlog due to 9/11 security checks.

All Petitioners who case seems to be in limbo (over a year) would call a special hotline number and have thier case evaluated by a special agent with authority to grant a provisional case number for immediate adjudication.

 

The US State Dept. authorizes this because they realize that 99.9% of all the cute and sweet fiancees from China and Russia are not terrorists.

[Dave G.]

However, we are quick to forget that, except for a few, US history in north america began by immigrants taking land and rights from the native inhabitants. Was that wrong? Yes.  I have thought long on this issue, as I am native american giving me a different way to look at this.  So, I have trouble reconciling our indignation at illegals with the facts of how america came to be.  My conclusion? Be tolerant, and slow to condemn others or actions that benefit them, for we have not traveled in their shoes.  Are some immigrant decisions unfair?  Perhaps, but many things in life go that way.  Concentrate rather on the good things....it will help us all.

I have thought about this thread all day. I'm not sure why it hits me so deeply. Perhaps it has to do with my own K-1 process. Maybe too because of the CA political nonsense right now. I don't know.

 

I guess context has a lot to do with it. I'm an old man born in 1962. My life's experiences are unique compared to the history of Mankind. Although a child at the time, my life was influenced by the racial upheaval of the '60s. I learned great lessons from that time. "We are all born equal and should treat each other as such." I apply these lessons even to this very day.

 

Yes. Horrible mistakes were made in the past. American natives were treated horribly. African slaves even worse. But, these were not my times. Nor, am I personally responsible for them. Yes...it is my responsibility to learn the history and not repeat the past wrongs done to others. But, all I am left with is my country, current laws of the land, and my responsibility to follow those laws. If 600 years ago wrongs were done, it's not my fault. It's not my fault if wrongs were done 200 years ago either.

 

If I am expected to obey the law, I expect the same from others. Tell me...do I go to China and demand they follow my US rights? No. I am only expected to follow their laws. I understand in China very few rights are afforded to anyone....even its own citizens. If I illegally go to Germany, do I expect rights afforded to German citizens to be granted to me? Do I demand the right to drive on a German driver’s license? No.

 

Why is it different in the US? Freedom is not given. It's earned. I earned my freedom by being born on US soil by two US citizens. I am lucky....no, blessed. Current law provides for anyone to savor the same rights, provided certain steps are taken. If it's so damned important to have these rights, then the work should be worth the efforts. I'm not stupid. Our foreign national loved ones know the joys they are about to experience. Hence, they are willing to wait. "Good things happen to those who wait", as it were. If someone can't play the game and wait for all the privileges available to them, then they don't understand "the American Dream." They have no right being here. They will destroy everything this country is founded on. Hard work = success. Welfare = degradation to the pillars of our society.

 

Of course, just my two humble cents...............

[tywy_99]

Don't take it so to heart, Dave. You could expect such rebuttal.

I agree with you on alot of what you said. These illegals need to be stopped but the question is how? Either the U.S. Border Patrol needs to be beefed up or troops need to be assigned to guard our borders or both. In fact, there is a bill that has been reintroduced by Virgil Goode that addresses this, (H.R. 277).

In light of 9-11, it is high time to put the brakes on this trafficking.

[robhon]

You know, I think it's a mistake to compare any of our situations here on this site with those of illegals from Mexico. We may be governed by the same malfunctioning government body but there are worlds of difference.

 

Our country needs those people! Like it or not they serve a vital role in our economy. We can't afford to stop them coming in. We can't afford to send them home. These are the people who do the work "we" don't want to do. Who's the last person whom you went to school with or who has been a long personal friend who actually makes up rooms in a hotel or actually picks fruit and vegetables for a living. Those jobs aren't going to get automated very soon, and our beds still have to be made and food has to get to our tables.

 

I would add that the illegal immigrant situation is a function of a very wealthy nation sharing a border with a vastly poorer nation. Think supply and demand. We have jobs that need to be done. They have workers who want those jobs. The more money spent stemming the flow of illegals only serves to tip the scales of economics in the opposite direction. It's a lose-lose proposition. I believe this is exactly why you see politicians pushing for amnesty for illegals.

[Dave G.]

When I was a counselor at a residential psychiatric treatment center for teens, I learned really fast that rules cannot be made that can't be enforced. Naturally, immigration is a federal issue; what States do about them is a different story. If CA wants to treat these people like the employees in Asian sweatshops, so be it. But, it kind of makes CA hypocritical. "We want jobs back but are only willing to pay 25 cents an hour for non-citizens." I guess my point is either change the laws and treat people fairly or don't change the laws and ship them out. If we can turn a blind eye on one country, open the door to all.

[skibum]

To ttlee......Amnesty was tried several years ago. Congress passed some good laws about punishing employers who hired illegals but then when those scumbags complained they changed the law so that INS could not raid employers. They had to give notice that the employer may have illegals working there. So the illegals went across the street to work. The problem lies with Congress and the scumbags that hire the illegals.

 

I think the revised rules were called the Phoenix Plan. Try a search.

[robhon]

I definitely agree with Dave. It's politics, though. And I don't think it's isolated to CA either. Politicians are enacting laws in manners that fit their constituencies and keep them in office (not to mention keeping their best contributors happy). Lawmakers, as far as I've ever seen, have rarely been interested in creating laws that are fair in all scenarios. Hell, you'd never get re-elected doing that.

[Joseph-1]

The fact is that our government has the power to torture people to its high and mighty hearts content. Being honest in our society is treated like a poison. We waited and we did it leaglly. What right do the lawless have to special treatment?

[robhon]

The fact is that our government has the power to torture people to its high and mighty hearts content. Being honest in our society is treated like a poison. We waited and we did it leaglly. What right do the lawless have to special treatment?

Again, I would say even though it feels unfair, the two situations are not the same. It's apples and oranges. Amnesty for illegals is less of a real immigration issue and more an issue of economics. All of our situations are far more straight-forward immigration issues.

[Dave G.]

The fact is that our government has the power to torture people to its high and mighty hearts content. Being honest in our society is treated like a poison. We waited and we did it leaglly. What right do the lawless have to special treatment?

Again, I would say even though it feels unfair, the two situations are not the same. It's apples and oranges. Amnesty for illegals is less of a real immigration issue and more an issue of economics. All of our situations are far more straight-forward immigration issues.

Rob...

 

You gonna be back to vote in the governor's election? Hope not. B) Juuussst joking.

 

I agree with what you said before. The illegal issue is mostly politics right now. I kind-of understand the economic arguement but I still think it's wrong. Case in point: Jing Mei's cousin got a visa to the US (don't know what kind). He worked in a San Fran Chinese restaurant and the visa expired. He stayed two years past the expiration before the gov caught up with him. He made $2k a month, under the table I might add, and kept most of it. When he finally got sent home, he left with $40k. We all know that's a small fortune in China. I wonder how many people like him are in CA. I have a hard time believing these people pay anything but sales tax. I mean...can an illegal get a SSN? Think not. If they can, I'd be very interested in knowing how and knowing why they'd pay taxes.

 

McClintok made some great points yesterday. He said a drivers license is much more than the right to drive. It establishes residency in CA and is used as ID. Those in favor of it say it will help them board an airplane with fewer hastles. McClintok said why do we want these people...unscreened in the US...getting on our planes??? The only plane they should board is the one going back home. After saying that, "the left" started hinting he is racist. Yup...getting a little tired of the misuse of that term these days.

 

Last point: Heard something great yesterday. "No on the recall; yes to Bustimonte." A viewer wrote into the show Crossfire and said, "That's like saying, 'Don't drink and drive. But, if you do, drink Coors.'"

 

Cheers!

[chinadave2001]

All documents can be had here in the USA for the right price. I had some friends who went to Chicago one weekend just to get a social security card. A real one. $500 no questions asked. Next a trip to NYC to get a New York driving liscense. again, just a matter of money. With these two documents you do just about anything, including establishing credit and even buying property.

I can also say that some people are real sloppy when it comes to doing what they are supposed to do in requiring documents. Sarah has memorized her social security card # and only a few have asked to see it or noticed that it it is stamped with " Only with INS authorization."

dave

[Guest sanfranciscojoe]

why can't Chinese nationals get tourist visas to visit the US? Ask Jing Mei's cousin. Perhaps he can tell us why.