Sa Jiao

[Q&Q]

 

I constantly tell people that the differences between China and the U.S. far, FAR exceed those that are often vaguely described as "cultural".

 

For a Westerner, being in China is more like being on a different PLANET!

 

I tend to agree with you, David. People in China do have a little more exposure to and understanding of American culture, if only on a superficial level. Even after being interested for years, I knew (and still know) very little about the Middle Kingdom. That is part of the fascination.

 

I agree with you.

 

I used to think that I had enough exposure and understanding of American culture before I came to America. Talking about culture shock, in the first one or two years, I didn't think that I had had any "shock". I told my friends that there wasn't much "shock" to me and they were all happy for me.

 

Now that I've been here for 4 and 1/2 years. Gradually I found myself so constantly being "shocked". I think the reason for that is that the first couple of years, I only had chances to encounter those surface of the culture and that surface is what I was exposed to back in China. For the time being, and for the more I learn about the society, and people, the more shocking facts are there for me to deal with.

 

Just last night, I was in "shock" . oh, well, it's toooooo late. I'lll find another time to tell the story.

[credzba]

Last night I was talking with my wife on the phone.

 

We are buying a house here in america, and planning what all we want to do inside. Hopefully I can get some done before she gets here.

 

Anyway, I say oh, I need a lcd television but it HAS to be bigger than 50 inches.

why she asks?

Because Ben has a 50 inch dlp, so I need one at least 51 inches big.

 

She laughs at me and says "You are sa jiao now! "

 

I still don't figure what this sa jiao means, but it seems to have a very broad meaning.

 

Anyway, just passing on to you guys that the man can sa jiao as well as the woman!

 

zai jian

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Last night I was talking with my wife on the phone.

 

We are buying a house here in america, and planning what all we want to do inside. Hopefully I can get some done before she gets here.

 

Anyway, I say oh, I need a lcd television but it HAS to be bigger than 50 inches.

why she asks?

Because Ben has a 50 inch dlp, so I need one at least 51 inches big.

 

She laughs at me and says "You are sa jiao now! "

 

I still don't figure what this sa jiao means, but it seems to have a very broad meaning.

 

Anyway, just passing on to you guys that the man can sa jiao as well as the woman!

 

zai jian

 

Well interestingly (or not) jin says I can sa jiao, and do it often, she just thinks western not realise they are doing it

[SirLancelot]

Well interestingly (or not) jin says I can sa jiao, and do it often, she just thinks western not realise they are doing it

 

Yes, you can do it. It's playful, affectionate flirtation. I'm sure all of the men on here have done it in private with their SOs from time to time and they didn't even realize it. Women can do it in public as well, but men would only do it in private. It would be very strange to see a guy "so jiao" to his SO in public, especially around other men.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Well interestingly (or not) jin says I can sa jiao, and do it often, she just thinks western not realise they are doing it

 

Yes, you can do it. It's playful, affectionate flirtation. I'm sure all of the men on here have done it in private with their SOs from time to time and they didn't even realize it. Women can do it in public as well, but men would only do it in private. It would be very strange to see a guy "so jiao" to his SO in public, especially around other men.

 

 

Yes i agree, wow folks would would look at you here if you did it in public i think as its not something normal, but then affection in public, in the west just consists of dressing sexy and squeezing her ass. Sa Jiao is a private thing i think within family

Edited September 22, 2007 by Rob & Jin (see edit history)

[SmilingAsia]

Because Ben has a 50 inch dlp, so I need one at least 51 inches big.

My friend is dating someone who is 6'4" in height. Really feel intimidating if I have to date someone who is 6'5"

[Steve and Aiwen]

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

 

 

childlike/childish playful manner in public

and

a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner in private

 

 

So is this a Chinese version of a English idiom "A lady in public and a freak in the bed." What are your thoughts?

 

It fits my lady.....very proper in public, swats me if I get too publically affectionate....then the lights go out......you know the rest....(grin......)

 

"A lady in the living room, a queen in the kitchen, and a whore in the bedroom."---RA Heinlein

Steve

Edited September 24, 2007 by Steve and Aiwen (see edit history)

[Don]

A Mafan, as always, I love your posts. Extremely insightful, analytical and very useful.

 

The only thing I would add is that "Èö½¿" probably would be used more often from more pampered Chinese women vs. the land-toiling rural working kind of Chinese women. That is not to say that every women from the countryside wouldn't utilized "Èö½¿" at one point or another, but they'd utilize it much less than more pampered city girls.

 

That is my opinion anyway. Others are free to disagree.

 

Again, great post A Mafan!

 

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

Yeah. I *almost* thought that "coquettish" was the closest to "sajiao", but sajiao really isn't so much Mae West as Shirley Temple. Apologies for how sick that sounds...

...but the point is that Chinese women (subject to all the exceptions and caveats, of course) want their man to indulge them in emotional matters. She pointed me to an article on the Sina.com boards that was getting lots of approving comments from women that talked about women wanting their man to be a tall, mature tree. Able to flex in high winds, but sturdy enough to never falter.

 

Looking back, it now seems like American relationships are so obsessed with equality that it's like the contrast has been turned way down: the main point of a happy marriage is to not fight, not cheat, and collect stuff. But the main point of a happy Chinese marriage (at least as I understand what my wife wants) is more giving, but more receiving. She gives to an extent that an American woman would consider exploitation by a chauvinistic pig...but then she expects to get just as much, to an extent that I haven't been able to match until now (and still fall short at times).

 

That's an oversimplification, of course.

 

The other thing I'm finding out is that although I understood Chinese society well enough to fit in quite well as friends, co-workers, acquaintances, and not be an "ugly american" as a tourist, my understanding was still woefully inadequate for a loving relationship.

 

I'm almost hesitant to say this (because every time I do, we have another big fight), but this time I think I've got it figured out and we've turned a corner.

 

We are being very careful to increase our communication. And several of the things I've been working on with my own personality/maturity/understanding are finally starting to bear fruit all at once.

 

Those of you who are praying types, though, keep praying for us. Still, I think we may finally have the worst behind us.

 

With Ping, she sometimes want me to be that stronger tree and tell her enough no more. Other times Some how she wants to be there, flexible but strong. She gave me a hint on this behavior. Depends on the situation so difficult to know, but just be there and engaged.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

A Mafan, as always, I love your posts. Extremely insightful, analytical and very useful.

 

The only thing I would add is that "Èö½¿" probably would be used more often from more pampered Chinese women vs. the land-toiling rural working kind of Chinese women. That is not to say that every women from the countryside wouldn't utilized "Èö½¿" at one point or another, but they'd utilize it much less than more pampered city girls.

 

That is my opinion anyway. Others are free to disagree.

 

Again, great post A Mafan!

 

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

Yeah. I *almost* thought that "coquettish" was the closest to "sajiao", but sajiao really isn't so much Mae West as Shirley Temple. Apologies for how sick that sounds...

...but the point is that Chinese women (subject to all the exceptions and caveats, of course) want their man to indulge them in emotional matters. She pointed me to an article on the Sina.com boards that was getting lots of approving comments from women that talked about women wanting their man to be a tall, mature tree. Able to flex in high winds, but sturdy enough to never falter.

 

Looking back, it now seems like American relationships are so obsessed with equality that it's like the contrast has been turned way down: the main point of a happy marriage is to not fight, not cheat, and collect stuff. But the main point of a happy Chinese marriage (at least as I understand what my wife wants) is more giving, but more receiving. She gives to an extent that an American woman would consider exploitation by a chauvinistic pig...but then she expects to get just as much, to an extent that I haven't been able to match until now (and still fall short at times).

 

That's an oversimplification, of course.

 

The other thing I'm finding out is that although I understood Chinese society well enough to fit in quite well as friends, co-workers, acquaintances, and not be an "ugly american" as a tourist, my understanding was still woefully inadequate for a loving relationship.

 

I'm almost hesitant to say this (because every time I do, we have another big fight), but this time I think I've got it figured out and we've turned a corner.

 

We are being very careful to increase our communication. And several of the things I've been working on with my own personality/maturity/understanding are finally starting to bear fruit all at once.

 

Those of you who are praying types, though, keep praying for us. Still, I think we may finally have the worst behind us.

 

With Ping, she sometimes want me to be that stronger tree and tell her enough no more. Other times Some how she wants to be there, flexible but strong. She gave me a hint on this behavior. Depends on the situation so difficult to know, but just be there and engaged.

 

According to Jin sa jiao is something a woman only does with the man (and children) she loves, it is a desire for closeness and affectionate fun, and at least as far as Jin is concerned , when I do it back her eyes light up.

[Rodger]

I have emailed with my girlfriend in Nanning. She agrees this is very important to Chinese women. I have been tossing it around for 24 hours and it dawned on me that we do have an English translation. We call it PMS. :-)

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I have emailed with my girlfriend in Nanning. She agrees this is very important to Chinese women. I have been tossing it around for 24 hours and it dawned on me that we do have an English translation. We call it PMS. :-)

 

no its not, its something different, it is a affection and closeness thing, it is a way they show love and test you, its complex, diverse, but its fun, just have to understand your woman

[Minister]

This has been the most useful forum discussion in the history of the universe. (Ok, that may be an exaggeration but not by much.)

 

An understanding of sa jiao has been, by far, the most important mental adjustment that I have ever made. Well, that and the ability to REALLY understand the value of a dollar! -_^

 

You know, in some cases, the scratch-the-surface cultural understanding that Americans and Chinese have about each other can lead to some interesting conversations early in a relationship. Apparently, according to Chinese rumor, all Americans:

 

1. Do drugs

2. Have multiple girlfriends

3. Drink to excess

4. Own guns

5. Join gangs while teenagers

6. Enjoy "ladies of the evening"

7. Spend all their free time at the casino

8. etc.

 

My initial understanding of Chinese culture, based mostly on three Chinese coworkers and the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Farewell My Concubine, didn't leave me in a much better position at the start either. (For the record, my Sweetheart does not now, nor has she ever, owned a "six demon bag".)

 

But, these first (rather comical) things aside, the continuous state of cultural discovery, both of our differences and our similarities, has lent a fascinating richness to our relationship. I believe that we know more about each other than most same-culture couples and we are always hungry to learn more. I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world.

 

Thanks to everyone for their stories and information in this thread.

[DMikeS4321]

This has been the most useful forum discussion in the history of the universe. (Ok, that may be an exaggeration but not by much.)

 

An understanding of sa jiao has been, by far, the most important mental adjustment that I have ever made. Well, that and the ability to REALLY understand the value of a dollar! -_^

 

You know, in some cases, the scratch-the-surface cultural understanding that Americans and Chinese have about each other can lead to some interesting conversations early in a relationship. Apparently, according to Chinese rumor, all Americans:

 

1. Do drugs

2. Have multiple girlfriends

3. Drink to excess

4. Own guns

5. Join gangs while teenagers

6. Enjoy "ladies of the evening"

7. Spend all their free time at the casino

8. etc.

 

My initial understanding of Chinese culture, based mostly on three Chinese coworkers and the movies Big Trouble in Little China and Farewell My Concubine, didn't leave me in a much better position at the start either. (For the record, my Sweetheart does not now, nor has she ever, owned a "six demon bag".)

 

But, these first (rather comical) things aside, the continuous state of cultural discovery, both of our differences and our similarities, has lent a fascinating richness to our relationship. I believe that we know more about each other than most same-culture couples and we are always hungry to learn more. I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world.

 

Thanks to everyone for their stories and information in this thread.

 

Great post!! Thanks for the info, I hope to see you here more often.

 

As for the topic, I've talked to Bini at length about "Sa Jiao". She tells me it is playful, pouty, flirty and (should be) cute. She tells me it is never about anger. If a woman has a hot temper and becomes cranky or moody, it isn't sa jiao. She then gave me several examples by acting coy and cute and kind of "little girlish". We both laughed about it because she does sa jiao, but it's nothing at all that I would consider to be unpleasant. It's kind of like when Lucy wanted something from Ricky.

 

Anyway, Bini has never shown any signs of anger or harshness, in any way, so maybe that's just her way. She tells me, though, that sa jiao is never about being upset.

 

Best Regards

[david_dawei]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary and child like...

 

In fact.. I showed her the thread and asked her why she never does it.. and she has done it none stop since...

[Joanne]

for the record...

 

My wife does not do 'sa jiao'... it's unnecessary and child like...

 

In fact.. I showed her the thread and asked her why she never does it.. and she has done it none stop since...

 

So, do you enjoy it?