Buying a clothes dryer and a dishwasher in China...

[SirLancelot]

 

 

220 provides more power with less amperage, while 110 is safer.

 

Higher voltages are used for transmission because they require less current, and less loss is incurred. At lower voltages, more current is required. The conducting wire itself generates a resistance (loss).

 

So what you're saying--if I understand correctly--is that our US 110 volts is safer but is actually less efficient than the 220 volt system with regards to receiving the same amount of energy (transmission). Is this correct?

 

We're basically sacrificing some efficiency for safety?

 

I believe that's true - I don't know of any other advantages to 110.

 

But anytime they tell you to use a short extension cord because of the current, with 220, you could use a cord twice as long.

 

Good to know. I've always wondered about this but never found an appropriate place to ask this question. Thanks.

[rogerluli]

We have so many experts here on every imaginable topic so I bet you guys can help me out with a 'lectricity question. Do electrons spin the other way in China???

 

But seriously the extent of my knowledge in this field is to plug stuff in and flip a switch... after that I'm in the dark...

 

So anywho I have a bunch of table lamps and some ceiling fixtures that I would like to keep and take to China. I know their 'lectricity is different... is it 220/50 and ours is 110/60 or whatever that means but what would have to be done to incandescent lamps to make them work there... changing wiring, sockets, doodads, whatxits...Is this rocket science and I'd be better off selling the lamps here or what???

 

 

If you have 220 and ground I think you can pick off either hot wire and ground to get 110. Perhaps an electrician can verify that.

 

Go out back and look inside your breaker box. That's how it's wired. My old house that was built in 1952 carried 220 volts through the attic - then each socket was fed by 2 wires, one from a hot wire, the other from ground.

 

The 50 cycles won't affect lighting.

 

Then, on the other hand, you could simply buy new bulbs in China if they fit the socket.

 

Ha...you think an olde house was built in 1952??? Try 1910...

 

Randy you lost me with the first sentence... I need the "for dummies" take on this...You seem to be saying I can just screw Chinese bulbs into my lamps and badda-bing...light???

 

Your right Roger, if your light fixtures don't involve any transformer inside them, yes, just screw a Chinese light bulb into the socket, splice a Chinese plug onto the wire, plug it in and... badda-bing... thou shall have light!!!

 

It looks like you don't even have to change the plug. The new outlets I see have multi-style plug-ins for the standard US type plug, the 2 slanted plug thingie and the 2 round pins thingie... But still no defintive word on the China-US socket question???

[sleepless in Houston&CQ]

But still no defintive word on the China-US socket question???

 

Really a Simple answer to your problem Roggit!

 

Just screw it in and if it doesn't work you can tell us but,

now if the worst could happen and you get fried.....

o well....

Am I still in ur WIIL?

 

Bobby....

[rogerluli]

But still no defintive word on the China-US socket question???

 

Really a Simple answer to your problem Roggit!

 

Just screw it in and if it doesn't work you can tell us but,

now if the worst could happen and you get fried.....

o well....

Am I still in ur WIIL?

 

Bobby....

 

Sorry Bobby...1st Laopo, 2nd her son...I can't see what position you're in from here...

 

I think the easiest solution would be to buy a plain socket on our next excursion to the homeland, bring it back to the US, and as you say ,"screw it"...

[sleepless in Houston&CQ]

I think the easiest solution would be to bring it back to the US, and as you say ,"screw it"...

 

 

Roggit

 

If you can't understand or remember how to "screw it" a bulb that is!

I'm sure one of the EXPERTS can tell you a really simply way to just

"Screw It" maybe even give you some photos and or a link.

What every you do I would advise against standing in water while doing this little task of just "Screwing It" a bulb that is!

Even if Dougie did this once, it still didn't make him any brighter.

 

Bobby....

[SirLancelot]

 

 

220 provides more power with less amperage, while 110 is safer.

 

Higher voltages are used for transmission because they require less current, and less loss is incurred. At lower voltages, more current is required. The conducting wire itself generates a resistance (loss).

 

So what you're saying--if I understand correctly--is that our US 110 volts is safer but is actually less efficient than the 220 volt system with regards to receiving the same amount of energy (transmission). Is this correct?

 

We're basically sacrificing some efficiency for safety?

 

I believe that's true - I don't know of any other advantages to 110.

 

But anytime they tell you to use a short extension cord because of the current, with 220, you could use a cord twice as long.

 

 

Ok. I went around and dug up some more explanation on this subject.

 

 

 

The system of three-phase alternating current electrical generation and distribution was invented by a nineteenth century creative genius named Nicola Tesla. He made many careful calculations and measurements and found out that 60 Hz (Hertz, cycles per second) was the best frequency for alternating current (AC) power generating. He preferred 240 volts, which put him at odds with Thomas Edison, whose direct current (DC) systems were 110 volts. Perhaps Edison had a useful point in the safety factor of the lower voltage, but DC couldn't provide the power to a distance that AC could.

 

When the German company AEG built the first European generating facility, its engineers decided to fix the frequency at 50 Hz, because the number 60 didn't fit the metric standard unit sequence (1,2,5). At that time, AEG had a virtual monopoly and their standard spread to the rest of the continent. In Britain, differing frequencies proliferated, and only after World War II the 50-cycle standard was established. A mistake, however.

 

Not only is 50 Hz 20% less effective in generation, it is 10-15% less efficient in transmission, it requires up to 30% larger windings and magnetic core materials in transformer construction. Electric motors are much less efficient at the lower frequency, and must also be made more robust to handle the electrical losses and the extra heat generated. Today, only a handful of countries (Antigua, Guyana, Peru, the Philippines, South Korea and the Leeward Islands) follow Tesla?s advice and use the 60 Hz frequency together with a voltage of 220-240 V.

 

Originally Europe was 120 V too, just like Japan and the US today. It has been deemed necessary to increase voltage to get more power with less losses and voltage drop from the same copper wire diameter. At the time the US also wanted to change but because of the cost involved to replace all electric appliances, they decided not to. At the time (50s-60s) the average US household already had a fridge, a washing-machine, etc., but not in Europe.

 

The end result is that now, the US seems not to have evolved from the 50s and 60s, and still copes with problems as light bulbs that burn out rather quickly when they are close to the transformer (too high a voltage), or just the other way round: not enough voltage at the end of the line (105 to 127 volt spread !).

 

Note that currently all new American buildings get in fact 240 volts split in two 120 between neutral and hot wire. Major appliances, such as virtually all drying machines and ovens, are now connected to 240 volts. Mind, Americans who have European equipment shouldn't connect it to these outlets. Although it may work on some appliances, it will definitely not be the case for all of your equipment. The reason for this is that in the US 240 V is two-phase, whereas in Europe it is single phase.

 

Roughly speaking, to operate a particular appliance requires a particular amount of POWER, which (at least for resistive loads) is current times voltage. If you double the voltage, you draw half the current to achieve the same power. The primary advantage of lower current is that you lose less power in the wires feeding current to the appliance (or you can use smaller, cheaper wires for the same power loss rating). On the other hand, the higher voltage is somewhat more dangerous if accidentally touched or if there is an accidental short circuit. Some experienced electricians are relatively casual about touching 110 V circuits, but all respect 230 V. (This constitutes a "don't-try-this-at-home thing, though--it's quite possible to get a fatal shock or start a fire with 110 V!) Current trends are toward the use of even lower voltages (24 V, 12 V, 5 V, 3.3 V...) for any devices which don't draw much total power to increase safety. Power is rarely distributed at these lower voltages; rather it is converted from 110 V or 230 V by a transformer at the earliest opportunity. Even in North America, 220-240 V is commonly used in residential appliances for

most high-power electrical appliances (ovens, furnaces, dryers, large motors, etc.) so that the supply current and supply wire size can be smaller. Higher power industrial applications often use 480 V or more. And, of course, transmission lines use progressively higher voltages as the distance and total power go up (22,000 V for local distribution to 1,000,000 V for long distance lines).

[SirLancelot]

one more link on 110 (120) US vs 220/240 Europe:

http://wellyouneednot.blogspot.com/2006/03...d-it-right.html

[DMikeS4321]

So can someone please explain to me why Chinese use a machine to wash clothes but not dry them...and then another machine to dry dishes but not wash them...

 

The dish dryer is called a "sterilization cabinet". I assume it's cheaper to heat air for sterilization than it is to heat water, plus, with hot water, you would still want to dry the dishes. If you are going to heat air to dry them, why not just heat the air enough to sterilize them as well and skip the hot water part with the attendant complexity and cost, no?

 

I have also wondered if maybe people are concerned about water quality? Lao Po won't drink tap water and I've never tried it. I hate to sound stupid but... is tap water safe to drink over there? I wouldn't think so...

[bosco]

So can someone please explain to me why Chinese use a machine to wash clothes but not dry them...and then another machine to dry dishes but not wash them...

 

The dish dryer is called a "sterilization cabinet". I assume it's cheaper to heat air for sterilization than it is to heat water, plus, with hot water, you would still want to dry the dishes. If you are going to heat air to dry them, why not just heat the air enough to sterilize them as well and skip the hot water part with the attendant complexity and cost, no?

 

I have also wondered if maybe people are concerned about water quality? Lao Po won't drink tap water and I've never tried it. I hate to sound stupid but... is tap water safe to drink over there? I wouldn't think so...

 

Don't drink the water. Montezuma's revenge is nothing compared to what comes out of the tap in China.

[Randy W]

one more link on 110 (120) US vs 220/240 Europe:

http://wellyouneednot.blogspot.com/2006/03...d-it-right.html

 

very interesting - thanks for the research

[David&Wendy]

When I lived there I was very careful about always drinking bottled (sealed) water or from my personal drinking water machine in my apartment.

 

While visiting my future in-laws, I drank water at some point that I thought was clean.

No they didn't serve it to me it was just during my visit.

Needless to say, in a short period of time, after making the 7th trip to the bathroom for diarahra the doctor made a house call and gave me medicine. (it really helps when you live one floor up from a doctor....

 

Don't drink the water. Montezuma's revenge is nothing compared to what comes out of the tap in China.

[SirLancelot]

So can someone please explain to me why Chinese use a machine to wash clothes but not dry them...and then another machine to dry dishes but not wash them...

 

The dish dryer is called a "sterilization cabinet". I assume it's cheaper to heat air for sterilization than it is to heat water, plus, with hot water, you would still want to dry the dishes. If you are going to heat air to dry them, why not just heat the air enough to sterilize them as well and skip the hot water part with the attendant complexity and cost, no?

 

I have also wondered if maybe people are concerned about water quality? Lao Po won't drink tap water and I've never tried it. I hate to sound stupid but... is tap water safe to drink over there? I wouldn't think so...

 

Mike, I believe the ones in China (the so called sterilization cabinets) use ultra violet light to sterilize, not heated air. It would be much too expensive to use headed air to sterilize for most people or businesses in China.

 

Regarding water, like the US, it very much depends on where you're talking about in China. I've lived in Guilin and Shanghai. The water is Guilin is infinitely better than Shanghai. I personally always drink bottled water in China but it's entirely acceptable to drink the tap water in Guilin. Shanghai's water is nasty--absolutely nasty--yet many local people still cook the tap water and drink it.

 

I've been to Sanya many times, and the water there is also quite clean and would be very drinkable straight from the tap. I'm amazed at how crappy the water quality is in Shanghia--considering the city is relatively so wealthy in China.

Edited January 20, 2007 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

one more link on 110 (120) US vs 220/240 Europe:

http://wellyouneednot.blogspot.com/2006/03...d-it-right.html

 

very interesting - thanks for the research

reminds me of the NTSC vs PAL debate... US uses NTSC.. yet PAL has more countries around the world... and PAL is higher resolution. NTSC is more 'frames per second', but simply to make up for poorer resolution... who knows...

[toy_rn65]

So can someone please explain to me why Chinese use a machine to wash clothes but not dry them...and then another machine to dry dishes but not wash them...

 

The dish dryer is called a "sterilization cabinet". I assume it's cheaper to heat air for sterilization than it is to heat water, plus, with hot water, you would still want to dry the dishes. If you are going to heat air to dry them, why not just heat the air enough to sterilize them as well and skip the hot water part with the attendant complexity and cost, no?

 

I have also wondered if maybe people are concerned about water quality? Lao Po won't drink tap water and I've never tried it. I hate to sound stupid but... is tap water safe to drink over there? I wouldn't think so...

 

Mike, I believe the ones in China (the so called sterilization cabinets) use ultra violet light to sterilize, not heated air. It would be much too expensive to use headed air to sterilize for most people or businesses in China.

 

Regarding water, like the US, it very much depends on where you're talking about in China. I've lived in Guilin and Shanghai. The water is Guilin is infinitely better than Shanghai. I personally always drink bottled water in China but it's entirely acceptable to drink the tap water in Guilin. Shanghai's water is nasty--absolutely nasty--yet many local people still cook the tap water and drink it.

 

I've been to Sanya many times, and the water there is also quite clean and would be very drinkable straight from the tap. I'm amazed at how crappy the water quality is in Shanghia--considering the city is relatively so wealthy in China.

 

 

You have a lot more faith in tap water in China than I do. Everywhere I went in China, I was told (even by the locals) to only drink bottled water. Even that, you better be really careful because there are even bootleg bottled water and beverages on the market. Ask your SOs, they would sure agree.

[bosco]

So can someone please explain to me why Chinese use a machine to wash clothes but not dry them...and then another machine to dry dishes but not wash them...

 

The dish dryer is called a "sterilization cabinet". I assume it's cheaper to heat air for sterilization than it is to heat water, plus, with hot water, you would still want to dry the dishes. If you are going to heat air to dry them, why not just heat the air enough to sterilize them as well and skip the hot water part with the attendant complexity and cost, no?

 

I have also wondered if maybe people are concerned about water quality? Lao Po won't drink tap water and I've never tried it. I hate to sound stupid but... is tap water safe to drink over there? I wouldn't think so...

 

Mike, I believe the ones in China (the so called sterilization cabinets) use ultra violet light to sterilize, not heated air. It would be much too expensive to use headed air to sterilize for most people or businesses in China.

 

Regarding water, like the US, it very much depends on where you're talking about in China. I've lived in Guilin and Shanghai. The water is Guilin is infinitely better than Shanghai. I personally always drink bottled water in China but it's entirely acceptable to drink the tap water in Guilin. Shanghai's water is nasty--absolutely nasty--yet many local people still cook the tap water and drink it.

 

I've been to Sanya many times, and the water there is also quite clean and would be very drinkable straight from the tap. I'm amazed at how crappy the water quality is in Shanghia--considering the city is relatively so wealthy in China.

 

 

You have a lot more faith in tap water in China than I do. Everywhere I went in China, I was told (even by the locals) to only drink bottled water. Even that, you better be really careful because there are even bootleg bottled water and beverages on the market. Ask your SOs, they would sure agree.

 

Almost every place I have stayed all over China has tap water that "looks" no different than what I drink when I am home. But there is no way I'm drinking it. I refuse to pay for bottled water at home but in China? Bottled water, orange juice, tea and an occasional beer only.