Chinese Marriage/Visa Brokers

[SinoTexas]

Having read about the marriage/visa broker on several other threads, I am curious as to how it works from the Chinese side. Here in the US, I'm familiar with the dating web sites and of course the personal ads that appear in various forms of print. I'm basically talking about domestic dating sites. They all are more or less "dating" services with no mention of marriage as the final result. You pay your fees to have access to the database of people and basically pay for the service of the web site/printed media of "connecting" you to similar profiles, etc. These fees can be small or fairly substantial, but in the end you pay your fee's with no guarantees other a chance to meet.

 

In China, I understand that it is a different arrangement. My ex-SO was involved with a marriage broker and I have known others that were involved in the on-line service. I guess the Chinese woman pays a fee to be listed on a web site, and if she cannot read or write English or whatever language of the country she wants to be listed on, she pays additional fees for email correspondence (whether she actually writes them or not) and a maintenance fee. Do these marriage/visa services require the final fee when a marriage takes place or when a visa is successfully obtained? If a USC and Chinese national are married in China, then is that considered the final and successful arrangement and payment is due? Or is a final payment due when the Chinese national is issued a visa and marriage has little or nothing to do with the process. If a marriage takes place and there is not a visa issued because of problems, is only partial payment allowed? I guess I'm trying to understand whether these are really marriage brokers or visa brokers? I am curious as to how these are "marketed" in China...marriage or visa.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

 

PS. If this needs to be moved to a culture thread, please move. I wasn't sure where it fit.

[david_dawei]

good topic.

 

I can only relate the one I meet my eventual wife on... chnlove.com , I know of a few members using this.

 

For the record, this is considered an IMB.

 

They cater to ladies without computers and without english. a very smart marketing approach. They will setup the profile (I now forget how much since my wife was free, but someone once told me who didn't do it saying it was 'too much' for her), take pictures, translate all correspondence between the parties (if you use their online mail system).

 

SO the lady pays to start a profile. I don't think any more...

 

The man pays piecemeal: On each correspondence [bi-directional] or to retrieve her info.. they can talk via personal email if they want and he stops paying anything.

 

If a trip is arranged, then they offer services to pickup, translate and travel with the couple.. the man pays for everything (services and food, etc). It's reasonable costs to a USC, particularly if you need a translator on hand.

 

Considering all that this site offers.. and they cover about all of china... a USC can get alot of help for not too much money... only issue is that they are an IMB.. so must state that on the petition...

[C4Racer]

My wife used a service to get listed on asiaeuro.com

This is where I came across her profile. She paid an intial fee to be listed, then paid a maintenance fee each month, along with extra charges to translate emails. The agreement was once she was sucessfully married, she would pay an additional fee.

 

It is marketed as a marriage service/agency. This is what most of the women using this service are looking for. The visa is secondary and they don't provide any help for this. It is up to you and your new finacee/spouse to get the visa. Once you are married the additional fee is due and payable. Doesn't matter if you marry in China or foreign country, the service is concidered complete.

 

Since, I did not sign up with her service. I am not sure if it would be considered that we met through an IMB or not. Did not matter at that time, but is a very critical question now as this must be answered on the I-129F.

[dnoblett]

I too used CHN-Love and after about a year of weeding through the "Admirers" I found my fiance, the funny thing I would see many CHN-Love profiles also on Cherry Blossoms site also, Blossoms is like Match.Com with a flat rate for both parties, and can chat and email each other through the site.

 

Well anyway my SO contacted me on CHN-Love, and I spotted her on Blossoms, and responded there, She gave me her Yahoo email.

 

So in a way I used a marriage broker to find my SO, but used a non-marriage broker dating site (Blossoms) to actually make contact.

 

Later from experience i could tell CHN-Love tends to have somewhat caned behavior with the third party of the broker between the 2 parties. CHN-Love can get expensive to contact people at random, and communicate through, $5.00 per message.

[SirLancelot]

My wife used a service to get listed on asiaeuro.com

This is where I came across her profile. She paid an intial fee to be listed, then paid a maintenance fee each month, along with extra charges to translate emails. The agreement was once she was sucessfully married, she would pay an additional fee.

 

It is marketed as a marriage service/agency. This is what most of the women using this service are looking for. The visa is secondary and they don't provide any help for this. It is up to you and your new finacee/spouse to get the visa. Once you are married the additional fee is due and payable. Doesn't matter if you marry in China or foreign country, the service is concidered complete.

 

Hmm... this seems like a bad business model to me. What would compel the Chinese woman to pay the final fee? If she's moved to another country--say the US--how is this Chinese agency going to collect from her? Can't she just refuse to pay? The Chinese company can't sue her in the US court system. They can try to sue her in China, but she's not there anymore. Help me understand how they collect please.

 

I am under the impression that the Chinese SOs pay a huge sum all pre paid--like what Thomas's story suggests. His SO has a debt of 60,000rmb to repay. I'm assuming it was borrowed from family or friends before and paid to the agency prior to marriage and prior to leaving China.

 

Any one more familiar want to shed more light?

[chilton747]

My wife used a service to get listed on asiaeuro.com

This is where I came across her profile. She paid an intial fee to be listed, then paid a maintenance fee each month, along with extra charges to translate emails. The agreement was once she was sucessfully married, she would pay an additional fee.

 

It is marketed as a marriage service/agency. This is what most of the women using this service are looking for. The visa is secondary and they don't provide any help for this. It is up to you and your new finacee/spouse to get the visa. Once you are married the additional fee is due and payable. Doesn't matter if you marry in China or foreign country, the service is concidered complete.

 

Hmm... this seems like a bad business model to me. What would compel the Chinese woman to pay the final fee? If she's moved to another country--say the US--how is this Chinese agency going to collect from her? Can't she just refuse to pay? The Chinese company can't sue her in the US court system. They can try to sue her in China, but she's not there anymore. Help me understand how they collect please.

 

I am under the impression that the Chinese SOs pay a huge sum all pre paid--like what Thomas's story suggests. His SO has a debt of 60,000rmb to repay. I'm assuming it was borrowed from family or friends before and paid to the agency prior to marriage and prior to leaving China.

 

Any one more familiar want to shed more light?

I have been under suspicion for some time now that the final bill was due when the visa petition arrived at GZ. I believe they called it success when the visa petition actually came to GZ and if the bill wasn't paid at that time then perhaps a TPC would be in order by the club to GZ.

[mangosun153]

My SO paid a "matchmaking / translation" service in Guangzhou 4800 yuan to list her on Asia Friend Finder. If the match was successful, she owed an additional 10,000 yuan. If it was not successful, meaning I said Bye Bye for good, the company would reimburse her 9,100 yaun keeping the difference for services rendered. I paid nothing. They also were very skilled in filling out various US visa forms. But that's where it stopped. They did not coach her on the interviews. They did not advise the various possibilities or probabilities. Her and I were very naive about the immigration process. Until the doors started slamming. We learned many things through the School of Hard Knocks. The "final and successful arrangement" depends largely on the agreed contract. Some companies are above-board, some are not. Many only guarantee the successful match, not the successful visa.

[Cerberus]

good topic.

 

I can only relate the one I meet my eventual wife on... chnlove.com , I know of a few members using this.

 

For the record, this is considered an IMB.

 

They cater to ladies without computers and without english. a very smart marketing approach. They will setup the profile (I now forget how much since my wife was free, but someone once told me who didn't do it saying it was 'too much' for her), take pictures, translate all correspondence between the parties (if you use their online mail system).

 

SO the lady pays to start a profile. I don't think any more...

 

The man pays piecemeal: On each correspondence [bi-directional] or to retrieve her info.. they can talk via personal email if they want and he stops paying anything.

 

If a trip is arranged, then they offer services to pickup, translate and travel with the couple.. the man pays for everything (services and food, etc). It's reasonable costs to a USC, particularly if you need a translator on hand.

 

Considering all that this site offers.. and they cover about all of china... a USC can get alot of help for not too much money... only issue is that they are an IMB.. so must state that on the petition...

David and Dnoblett,

 

Alice and I were both using the Chnlove marriage agency. We originally met at an embassy function. Alice was a bit ashamed of her Chinese accent in her English. She also thought that her English was the poorest on God¡¯s green earth. I attempted to reassure her many times when we began dating that I understood almost every word she spoke. I attempted to reassure her that her accent would remain for many years afterwards even if she could speak perfect English. (BTW I love a Chinese woman¡¯s accent) This didn¡¯t help too much.

 

SHE (emphasis on she) and I decided to use the Chnlove office in Chengdu for translation services. As I stated in an earlier post, she paid an initiation fee of $80.00(USD) then paid I believe it was either$20 or 25(USD) monthly thereafter. As Dnoblett related, translation services were $5.00 a letter. Price was slightly discounted when purchasing credits in excess of $100.00(USD) I always aim to get the most ¡°bang¡± for my buck. Many letters would require ¡°packeting¡± the letter to 4 or 5 translators. I finally met them later. Man! You should have seen the ¡°daggers¡± in their eyes! Many letters from Yin and myself would exceed two to three thousand words. This was from both the Chinese and the Western side. Both of us drove them crazy! When I met the interpreters for the first time I took all of them to a special dinner, Alice and I covered the drinks and food. We also invited them to bring boyfriends and a husband is they wished. Only two didn¡¯t bring an escort, since they were college students with no romantic inclinations. This seemed to smooth things over with them.

 

Now to the original question are they visa/marriage brokers? Absolutely! A person, who does not know that they are in a marriage racket, has been playing with the ¡°playful peyote buttons¡± wayyyyy to long!

 

Laura (English name) was the manager. She already had inside info from my letters. Yin asked at some point in time how long had I spent in the Orient! As I have said to some previously, 18 years plus! Laura knew that she was not dealing with an inexperienced fool to the Orient. She knew that I had lived in the Orient for this period of time as military, traveling or as an expat. This first meeting was cordial enough. My birthday was two days away. She closed the office and took Alice, the staff, self and her husband and myself to an upper scale restaurant in Chengdu. I know that she shelled some RMB out for this throw. However, talk after dinner turned to her offering her services. I stated that I originally wanted a K-1 Visa since at that time it would be faster. (Alice¡¯s family later put the nix of this ¡°neato¡± idea of mine) She and her husband both agreed. They began peddling their services, lawyers and God knows whom else! I turned them down flat. Here comes the Ass Kissing part; I told them that I had a very capable knowledge base with the CFL forum, and I did not need lawyers or anything else. The rest of the night was spent dodging little innuendos about how they could help! Myself politely, but flatly refused all of their advances. I didn¡¯t want to cause a loss of guangxi to them.

 

I will cut to the end of my second visit. I presented them a pennant for their office. Chengdu Chn Love members probably will still see it there on the wall. It is maroon with gold lettering. My Chinese name is on the bootm of _ _ _EuDai. Laura requested that I give permission to Alice to work in her office as an Assistant Manager. I thought it was a good deal since Alice desired to hone her English skills, was a competent salesperson, had very good PC/Internet skills, and has a very altruistic attitude helping others (in this case the girls at the agency) I left China and Alice began her work, needless to say with free translation services as a side benefit to her position.

 

Everything worked well for about 4 months. Alice helped many girls get acclimated with Internet, talking with future spouses/fianc¨¦e¡¯s, giving suggestions about what to ask their new husbands, helping the women express themselves to Laoweis. True to the adage ¡°No good deed goes unpunished,¡± this is when the dark side appeared. Alice and my photos were published on the Internet without our knowledge or permission, by the same agency! I found them by accident. They were attempting to drum up business, and the lurid details, accolades of their services they provided was sickening even to a hardened person like myself. I told Alice and that is when the plot thickens.

 

A major blowup occurred. Alice immediately confronted the agency about the photographs and the details that they provided to the entire world. The agency basically told her that since she was an employee, her life was open to photographing and details of our romance. Then they detailed how their business had boomed due to her efforts. Both K-1/3 visas applications were beyond belief. The offered her monetary compensation for the photographs and belatedly asked her permission. Alice flatly refused and quit about 3 minutes later and walked out!

 

Alice¡¯s family is extremely well connected! She immediately contacted relatives, who in turn contacted the CCP, who in turn contacted a television producer. (Not unlike a Chinese version of 60 minutes) The man was knocking on Alice¡¯s door 12 hours later. They did an approximately 20-minute segment of her being interviewed and what had transpired. Warning for all members¡¯: Chinese people value their private and romantic lives more than you can imagine. They have NO sense of humor about losing face or their privacy!

 

For members that are interested and for the forum benefit, I will attempt to get the DVD if they wish and let people see the interview! THE DVD is still in her safety deposit box in China. I will need someone computer knowledgeable to upload. However, first I have to pry the DVD from Alice, seek her permission of both her and her family to release it. Both sides of the family, communist and noncommunist are still POd about this crap! Members can PM if they want to see it! Otherwise, I will hold my peace.

 

Are they a marriage/visa agency? I think that I have put the ¡±final nail in the coffin!¡± The only thing I do NOT understand is the women and/or fianc¨¦e¡¯s who are paying exorbitantly high ¡°finders fees.¡± I don¡¯t understand how some women could fall for such foolishness! ChnLove never even attempted to run this past me once! I know that I am jaded to the Orient and scams! This same scenario is played in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia with the ¡°sick water buffalo,¡± sick realtive, mother needs operation, brother had a moped accident "routines." I still wonder about many of the itineraries I have read here if they are the ¡°sick water buffalo¡±, or women who have fallen to a scam, or are attempting to scam!

 

One expat adage, that is STILL prevalent to this day;

 

¡°Don¡¯t F _ _ k with someone else¡¯s rice bowl!¡± I will stand accordingly to this adage! However, food for thought for other members. Possibly a red flag! Possibly not a red flag!

 

Dave

 

My wife has proofread this post. She wanted to to say to CFL forum members that this is one of the reasons that her photographs were pulled from this forum at her request. She apologizes to all members of this forum. It is also one primary reason that my photographs has never been shown here. However, this last scenario may change shortly in the future.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Cerberus (see edit history)

[RLS]

My wife used a service to get listed on asiaeuro.com

This is where I came across her profile. She paid an intial fee to be listed, then paid a maintenance fee each month, along with extra charges to translate emails. The agreement was once she was sucessfully married, she would pay an additional fee.

 

It is marketed as a marriage service/agency. This is what most of the women using this service are looking for. The visa is secondary and they don't provide any help for this. It is up to you and your new finacee/spouse to get the visa. Once you are married the additional fee is due and payable. Doesn't matter if you marry in China or foreign country, the service is concidered complete.

 

Hmm... this seems like a bad business model to me. What would compel the Chinese woman to pay the final fee? If she's moved to another country--say the US--how is this Chinese agency going to collect from her? Can't she just refuse to pay? The Chinese company can't sue her in the US court system. They can try to sue her in China, but she's not there anymore. Help me understand how they collect please.

 

I am under the impression that the Chinese SOs pay a huge sum all pre paid--like what Thomas's story suggests. His SO has a debt of 60,000rmb to repay. I'm assuming it was borrowed from family or friends before and paid to the agency prior to marriage and prior to leaving China.

 

Any one more familiar want to shed more light?

 

 

 

c4racer - my SO also used AsiaEuro and it didn't cost her one yuan. She said the service was free and she never paid anyone for anything. I met her there and once we got to know each other better, she removed her profile.

[Jason+Joanna]

Joanna used chnlove.com -- she paid 5000 RMB to the local Guangzhu branch. I later also found her profile on blossoms.com. I think these agencies actually post several profiles to several sites to increase the odds in their favor. There was some kind of guarantee to meet a guy -- i.e. return of all monies within a certain period of time. They never asked for anything more from her. On my end they charged something on the order of $3.00 per letter. I was pretty happy with the whole deal. I cannot complain.

[C4Racer]

My wife used a service to get listed on asiaeuro.com

This is where I came across her profile. She paid an intial fee to be listed, then paid a maintenance fee each month, along with extra charges to translate emails. The agreement was once she was sucessfully married, she would pay an additional fee.

 

It is marketed as a marriage service/agency. This is what most of the women using this service are looking for. The visa is secondary and they don't provide any help for this. It is up to you and your new finacee/spouse to get the visa. Once you are married the additional fee is due and payable. Doesn't matter if you marry in China or foreign country, the service is concidered complete.

 

Hmm... this seems like a bad business model to me. What would compel the Chinese woman to pay the final fee? If she's moved to another country--say the US--how is this Chinese agency going to collect from her? Can't she just refuse to pay? The Chinese company can't sue her in the US court system. They can try to sue her in China, but she's not there anymore. Help me understand how they collect please.

 

I am under the impression that the Chinese SOs pay a huge sum all pre paid--like what Thomas's story suggests. His SO has a debt of 60,000rmb to repay. I'm assuming it was borrowed from family or friends before and paid to the agency prior to marriage and prior to leaving China.

 

Any one more familiar want to shed more light?

 

 

 

c4racer - my SO also used AsiaEuro and it didn't cost her one yuan. She said the service was free and she never paid anyone for anything. I met her there and once we got to know each other better, she removed her profile.

 

That's great for ladies in China who:

a. understand written English

b. know how to use a computer

c. know how to navigate the internet

 

asiaeuro was simply one place her service listed her profile. Remember, many ladies who desire a better life, don't always write english, so chances are they need a translator. Also, they may or may not know how to use the internet. Mine was basically computer illiterate when I met her.

 

SirLancelot, I understand from my wife the bill is payable before the lady leaves China. It is considered successful once you are scheduled for interview. She said, if not paid they will make trouble for you. She said they make man and lady fight, become unhappy with each other. My thought was, hmm.. wonder if this is what generates some thrid party correspondence?

Edited November 27, 2006 by C4Racer (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

Cerberus,

 

Wow sounds like you were dealing with some seedy characters there. Fortunately Yu and myself kept CHN-Love out of our business she contacted me as an "Admirer" and I then made contact with her on Blossoms. Blossoms is a American based dating site run out of Hawaii, with fees much like match.com, or friend finder, flat rate with unlimited email and chat, no catches, and no translation service.

 

Also Yu has no problem with English though sometimes she thinks she dose, more modesty than anything. She is a Vice-Principle, and English teacher at a foreign language school.

[Guest Byron]

Joanna used chnlove.com -- she paid 5000 RMB to the local Guangzhu branch. I later also found her profile on blossoms.com. I think these agencies actually post several profiles to several sites to increase the odds in their favor. There was some kind of guarantee to meet a guy -- i.e. return of all monies within a certain period of time. They never asked for anything more from her. On my end they charged something on the order of $3.00 per letter. I was pretty happy with the whole deal. I cannot complain.

 

Most dating sites are riddled with fraud including chnlove, match, AFF, etc. chlove charges $5-$6 for each email, therefore to send and read a reply is $10-$12. If you pay them $1000 it might be $3.00 each. Chlove says the lady doesn't pay a penny. They "plant" non real ladies just to get emails going and get revenue. I communicated with someone there only to find her exact same picture with completely different profile and age on other sites. She refused to email on non chlove site, you figure. Match.com is the worst as it is the biggest in U.S. probably. Fraud there is easy to spot and I had Match.com delist several fraud ladies. In China many dating sites charge large fees to the ladies guaranteeing them "richer" contacts. 60,000 RMB owed by Thomas Promise wife seems reasonable to me since he said he wrote couple thousand letters or so. I believe organized crime runs many dating services or at least uses the sites to extort money from unsuspecting single men. I have many stories to tell so write me if you have questions. It is best to find English speaking lady and call her immediately to talk to her on the phone. Something is wrong if they don't want you to call even if they say they speak very little English. The dating sites like Match.com are in it for the money so they have no interest in preventing fraud as long as someone pays them. Only when someone complains like me will they delist the fraud listing. I can tell canned email response easily and match.com has no problem removing the listing that is obviously fraud. Not all are fraud however, but I found that at least 50% of match.com response was fraud, chlove 25% fraud, AFF 35% fraud.

[RLS]

Joanna used chnlove.com -- she paid 5000 RMB to the local Guangzhu branch. I later also found her profile on blossoms.com. I think these agencies actually post several profiles to several sites to increase the odds in their favor. There was some kind of guarantee to meet a guy -- i.e. return of all monies within a certain period of time. They never asked for anything more from her. On my end they charged something on the order of $3.00 per letter. I was pretty happy with the whole deal. I cannot complain.

 

Most dating sites are riddled with fraud including chnlove, match, AFF, etc. chlove charges $5-$6 for each email, therefore to send and read a reply is $10-$12. If you pay them $1000 it might be $3.00 each. Chlove says the lady doesn't pay a penny. They "plant" non real ladies just to get emails going and get revenue. I communicated with someone there only to find her exact same picture with completely different profile and age on other sites. She refused to email on non chlove site, you figure. Match.com is the worst as it is the biggest in U.S. probably. Fraud there is easy to spot and I had Match.com delist several fraud ladies. In China many dating sites charge large fees to the ladies guaranteeing them "richer" contacts. 60,000 RMB owed by Thomas Promise wife seems reasonable to me since he said he wrote couple thousand letters or so. I believe organized crime runs many dating services or at least uses the sites to extort money from unsuspecting single men. I have many stories to tell so write me if you have questions. It is best to find English speaking lady and call her immediately to talk to her on the phone. Something is wrong if they don't want you to call even if they say they speak very little English. The dating sites like Match.com are in it for the money so they have no interest in preventing fraud as long as someone pays them. Only when someone complains like me will they delist the fraud listing. I can tell canned email response easily and match.com has no problem removing the listing that is obviously fraud. Not all are fraud however, but I found that at least 50% of match.com response was fraud, chlove 25% fraud, AFF 35% fraud.

 

Byron, with all due respect, you are painting a very negative and gloomy picture of all of these websites. There are many happy CFL'rs here who met the love of their lives through a dating website. Most, as far as I can determine, without any problems. As I stated before, I met mine on AsiaEuro. I paid $29 and wrote unlimited emails. My SO paid nothing.

[rlheim]

Joanna used chnlove.com -- she paid 5000 RMB to the local Guangzhu branch. I later also found her profile on blossoms.com. I think these agencies actually post several profiles to several sites to increase the odds in their favor. There was some kind of guarantee to meet a guy -- i.e. return of all monies within a certain period of time. They never asked for anything more from her. On my end they charged something on the order of $3.00 per letter. I was pretty happy with the whole deal. I cannot complain.

 

Most dating sites are riddled with fraud including chnlove, match, AFF, etc. chlove charges $5-$6 for each email, therefore to send and read a reply is $10-$12. If you pay them $1000 it might be $3.00 each. Chlove says the lady doesn't pay a penny. They "plant" non real ladies just to get emails going and get revenue. I communicated with someone there only to find her exact same picture with completely different profile and age on other sites. She refused to email on non chlove site, you figure. Match.com is the worst as it is the biggest in U.S. probably. Fraud there is easy to spot and I had Match.com delist several fraud ladies. In China many dating sites charge large fees to the ladies guaranteeing them "richer" contacts. 60,000 RMB owed by Thomas Promise wife seems reasonable to me since he said he wrote couple thousand letters or so. I believe organized crime runs many dating services or at least uses the sites to extort money from unsuspecting single men. I have many stories to tell so write me if you have questions. It is best to find English speaking lady and call her immediately to talk to her on the phone. Something is wrong if they don't want you to call even if they say they speak very little English. The dating sites like Match.com are in it for the money so they have no interest in preventing fraud as long as someone pays them. Only when someone complains like me will they delist the fraud listing. I can tell canned email response easily and match.com has no problem removing the listing that is obviously fraud. Not all are fraud however, but I found that at least 50% of match.com response was fraud, chlove 25% fraud, AFF 35% fraud.

 

Byron, with all due respect, you are painting a very negative and gloomy picture of all of these websites. There are many happy CFL'rs here who met the love of their lives through a dating website. Most, as far as I can determine, without any problems. As I stated before, I met mine on AsiaEuro. I paid $29 and wrote unlimited emails. My SO paid nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

I did the same with Yanlan. We both feel we did quite well. Through all the trouble we have been put through, a scammer would have left the scene long ago.