Money, and the apparent obsession with it

[Joanne]

I see it as a red flag. The reason simply is, you are too different. You are not happy about her behavior now, and you will feel disgusted about it later when you live together. ( That's my opinion only, and based only on the limited information you posted. )

 

I don't use myself as an example, because I have been married to an American man for over 10 years, so I might become somewhat westernized. I know my friends and relatives around me would not do this. We may sometime exchange notes about how to handle financial issues, but would never want to get so explicit on money issues. Besides, in my opinion, a woman with self-respect would not show-off husband that way.

 

We Chinese are more open about the topic of money in casual conversations. People are in general shows more insterests in each other's well being (including health, financial, family hamony, etc.) than most American people. However, people do it to a different degree. Just like some Americans also talks about money that way. You just don't take them as friends. One always mix up with people who share similar behavioral patterns.

[Tony_onrock]

Men always have to pay, one way or another. This is especially true in China.

(1) The girls never offer to pay for dinner or lunch or something

(2) When the prospect of catching you as a husband is gone, the girl wants cash. The difference is just short term or long term investment.

(3) Saving face is important, but there are some gold diggers. The one asking for $150 to $400 a month is certainly not a gold digger. Most include a car, an apartment in her name and a higher monthly allowance.

[Ann oni moose]

Men always have to pay, one way or another.  This is especially true in China.

(1) The girls never offer to pay for dinner or lunch or something

(2) When the prospect of catching you as a husband is gone, the girl wants cash.  The difference is just short term or long term investment. 

(3) Saving face is important, but there are some gold diggers.  The one asking for $150 to $400 a month is certainly not a gold digger.  Most include a car, an apartment in her name and a higher monthly allowance.

164982[/snapback]

I did not send her any money until we were married, and have not sent that much:

 

I spent a few thousand US when I was over there, but that included getting there, all the marriage paperwork, red envelopes to all the relatives, food, hotels, trains, buses, taxis, subways, translator who travelled with us, etc. I paid for everything when I was over there. She paid for nothing, but that is sort of how I expected it to be. If I had run short of money, she would have covered it without question.

 

We talked about me helping her by giving her some money. I agreed, only because she does not speak English well, so she has every email I send translated so there are no misunderstandings. Then she has the translator go over her reply for the same reason. This adds up to about $100 a month that she really didn't have until she met me and started writing me regularly. We also talk on the phone anywhere from 2-10 times each month. This uses a lot of her cellular minutes, plus she tells me it is expensive to receive international calls. She has no land line I can call. Even if that weren't true, I'm sure it adds 10-15 US to her costs. So giving her $150 a month is an understandable amount.

 

On the advice of people on here and other sites, I set up a bank account there in China and I put money into it from my bank by transfer. It isn't cheap, but it is much cheaper than Western Union or the like. I put in 550 last month because I still had to pay for the ring, plus a little extra. This was my first deposit into that account. I told her because of this extra expense I didn't have enough to put in 150 for the next couple of months. She was okay with it until she started in on the gossip with her friends:

 

"[Her friend's SO] send 400usd to his wife every month, I feel you just know to talk but no action. Haha. yes, honey, you are right, I think about money too much. haha. I am a little unhappy about every husband give their wife more than you and you don’t willing to give even 200usd for per month. I hope my husband is a man who is responsible. "

 

I was pretty upset when I got this in my email. She tries to make light of her concerns with the 'haha,' it isn't her laughing at me or anything. I'm mad that there is this one-upsmanship going on, and a SO's quality is based on the amount given. I told her that. I believe that how you feel about a person and how you treat them (in the non-economic sense) is much more important than how much cash you throw at them. I'm also mad about the guilt trip that is being laid on me. I want to email her friends and tell them how shallow they all are! I want to think that this will cure itself when she comes over to the US, but they are coming over also. So they will continue to compare each other's husbands, and to what end? B)

 

Sorry for the login, its just that enough people know my other nick and subsequently me and my SO that it is not wise to question things without more anonymity. I've heard of the emails from 3rd parties wrecking applications, and I just can't take that chance.

 

My plan is to keep with my budget and hold off sending any money until I can better afford it in January. A side effect of this is, for better or worse, seeing her reaction to this lack of money.

 

Again, I am not sure if this is a red flag, a cultural difference, or a personality trait I am having trouble with here. I find myself wondering what I have gotten myself into here, and hating myself for doubting my SO/marriage, doubting my judgement, and for even thinking this way (especially after the marriage as opposed to before). It is taking all my will to keep from calling my SO and venting. That surely wouldn't help anything, so here I am, venting as AoM.

 

AoM

[david_dawei]

I agree with the sentiment that chinese tend to be more open about discussing money but usually don't use money to 'show off' their husband or increase their own 'face value' to others.

 

My SO spoke NO english for most of our relationship; we used babelfish for most of our relationship; her cell incurs no costs for incoming calls; and once I bought her a [used] computer (she insisted on the cheap purchase), we talked via skype for free... so there are ways of reducing your communication costs if you feel they are higher than you want.

 

I do see a flag of color.. not sure that it means regarding the relationship or just the person... not sure which flag is waving [more].

 

The chinese that I have come to understand don't do this sort of thing and would look down very strongly on anyone in the culture who did.

 

If you want to really put an end to it, tell her "no more money"... You want to see what she's really made of and where her priorities are ? Will she claim 'losing face' at this ?

 

I'd ask her to not talk to those friends about money anymore; and if they gave her any grief, encourage her to stop talking to them. "Nothing good can come of this".

 

Dare I ask which part of china she lives in ?

[MoonCarolCafe]

"[Her friend's SO] send 400usd to his wife every month, I feel you just know to talk but no action. Haha. yes, honey, you are right, I think about money too much. haha. I am a little unhappy about every husband give their wife more than you and you don’t willing to give even 200usd for per month. I hope my husband is a man who is responsible. "

 

I was pretty upset when I got this in my email.  She tries to make light of her concerns with the 'haha,' it isn't her laughing at me or anything.

 

http://www.warrenkramer.com/design/7/images/5a-willrobinson.jpg

http://www.just4yucks.com/images/5x/51009.gif

 

On Edit: (Non-judgemental opinion follows) It sounds like you two need to have a bit of a chat to clear things up. Her definition of a responsible husband may be totally orthogonal to your definition of a responsible husband. It reads to me like you two may not know each other as well as you think you do. Freshly married couples who fight, when all was milk & honey before the nuptuial event, looks like a red flag to me.

Edited November 1, 2005 by MoonCarolCafe (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

http://tinypic.com/f58376.gifhttp://tinypic.com/f58376.gifhttp://tinypic.com/f58376.gifhttp://tinypic.com/f58376.gif

 

Sorry, but your post asks if we see a red flag. I have to say that I read many. Aside from the money issue, there were some subtle warnings that reminded me of my recently failed relationship with my former SO.

 

My only suggestion is to try to proceed with caution. If true love is there, you will succeed. But, do not continue on blind faith alone.

Edited November 1, 2005 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

http://tinypic.com/f58376.gif

165007[/snapback]

 

 

That's kind of a LITTLE red flag, Dennis

[Darlene2005]

I mean I know that money is a huge factor for an SO to up and leave their homeland to come to the US. They want to know they will have comfort when they come.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

 

Why would you assume that money is a huge factor for your SO, or even SO's in general? Why move to a strange land, with a much higher cost of living, where you don't know the language or customs, just for money? Ask yourself these two related questions:

 

1) Would you be willing to immigrate to China for your SO? That's what you are asking your SO to do for you.

 

2) Would your SO stay with you even if you would rather stay in China in stead of having your SO move to the USA?

 

I see what might be a red flag. I can't say for certain which of you may be waving it.

164810[/snapback]

Very good questions!

[Jeikun]

The first time I sent Jun money (almost a year after we first got to know each other). I had to fight to get her to take it. She always rejected the idea, because she was still in China, still had a job, and felt like needing my money meant she couldn't take care of herself. (Of course now, it's different because all my money is hers now )

 

I think it may be a red flag. It's the size of the red flag that's the question. Is it a sign of dishonesty, or just a character flaw?

 

Any of you guys read 001? Those chicks compare husbands all the time. If it's not money, it's size of house, length of vacation, size of engagement ring diamond.... I have found Chinese people to be VERY obsessed with money, and judging people by the size of their wallets. Not even wealth so much as the appearance of it (hence the exaggerated bragging).

 

But as I said before... David had the opposite experience then me? How could that be unless... GASP... maybe... dare I say... no... yes... All Chinese people aren't the same??? They don't all have identical value systems and beliefs??? How can this be? 56 ethnicities, huge geographical area, huge gap between rich and poor, dialects that can't understand each other, and they don't all think the same???? eeeeeeeeeek!!!! :D The "cultural difference" card is so overplayed it's not even funny. Search your heart. You probably knew the answer before you even posted.

[MoonCarolCafe]

How could that be unless... GASP... maybe... dare I say...  no... yes... All Chinese people aren't the same???  They don't all have identical value systems and beliefs???  How can this be?  56 ethnicities, huge geographical area, huge gap between rich and poor, dialects that can't understand each other, and they don't all think the same???? 

 

Hereby nominated for post of the year.

[Ann oni moose]

I know they aren't all alike, smartalleck . Heck my SO speaks three languages besides English just to get by. Her family speaks Hakka at home, She lives in GZ, so Cantonese is the preferred languange there and then Mandarin from school and anything 'official.'

 

I think I can easily answer the two questions though.

 

Yes, if I could get a job in China, I would, just to be with her.

 

I think she would stay with me if I stayed in China. I think it would depend on where in China. She would not want to be out in western China, I know. It is pretty sparse out there.

 

I think I am going to hold my own on my budget and I guess that will be a litmus test.

[jbray]

From what I have seen, Chinese are too obsessed with money. But, my experience has been that it isn't how much money you make, but how much you have saved.

 

When my wife and I were dating, I had to fight to be able to pay for things. She would always try to pay. I always wanted to take her to nice places, but she wouldn't let me. She wanted me to save my money. Now that we are married, it's the same way. I keep pleeding with her to let me send her money. She refuses. Right now she is in GUZ with her mom. I demanded that she let me send money so they could fly, stay in a nice hotel, and take some tours. She refused. They took the train for 2 days and stayed in a cheap hotel.

 

I do see red flags in this. Traditional Chinese are very conservative with their money. If she needs that much money, while in China, how much is she going to want in the US? $400 a month is more than most people make. I had an interview with Intel, and the monthly salary for a Server Admin was $500.

 

You need to ask yourself, if you had to move to China, and were making the same money as her, how would she take it? Would she be OK with it? In my case, I know the answer. For the past 3 years, I was living in China, she was making as much or more than me. I was trying to get my internet company off the ground (sadly I failed). Thank God, now I make a great salary! Our choice to return to the US was mostly because I wanted to. She is somewhat indifferent about coming here.

 

You also need to ask yourself, if she comes here, and you lose your job, how will she take it?

[Joanne]

Men always have to pay, one way or another.  This is especially true in China.

(1) The girls never offer to pay for dinner or lunch or something

(2) When the prospect of catching you as a husband is gone, the girl wants cash.  The difference is just short term or long term investment. 

(3) Saving face is important, but there are some gold diggers.  The one asking for $150 to $400 a month is certainly not a gold digger.  Most include a car, an apartment in her name and a higher monthly allowance.

164982[/snapback]

Simply not true.

[warpedbored]

Thank you Joanne. I too nominate JP's post for at least post of the month.

[BillV 8-16-2004]

I Helped my SO out financially with here English lessons as well as some of her living expenses due to the fact she had to work partime because of her English lessons. I had reservations about this at 1st but I saw her effort she was doing and how well she was doing and improving on her English. So I figured she was going to move here to America and she was giving up her homeland for me I should help her out. I also asked myself when I was in China with her my money was no good. I even tried on picking up the tab but she would not accept anything from me. When we where together in China she did for me. Now I am doing for her. Thats what its all about isn't? Doing for each other.

But if you SO is doing to you I would say Ciao Baby or Zai Jian. If she is doing to you she is nothing but a manipulator. You have to be the judge of this.

164925[/snapback]

I have assisted my wife financially on a few occasions, whenever I leave China I always make sure she is comfortable even though she has never asked for money. I will pay all expenses in China when I am there with her though that can be difficult at times. Whenever she calls I always tell her "I call you back" so that I will pay for the phone service and she doesn't have to use her phone card. She currently has quit her job in expectation of coming to America soon. And I have told her not to worry about asking me to help her financially, which is very seldom, but I what her to know that I will be there for her if need be. Most Chinese from my wife's area, I believe can live very comfortably on $100-$150 American dollars a month.